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Co-Op mode for Career ?

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Would it be cool if we could play coop in the career mode??

 

Yes, yes It would.

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Would it involve a great deal of work for the developers? 

 

Yes, yes it would.

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That would be a dream come true, yes a lot more work than budget and staff can do at present, but it would be a fantastic thing to fly with squad mates.

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I think that'd be awesome! I hope they can find some time to do it some day.

 

It'd be fun to bring friends in for guest appearances in a Career I'm already playing for example.

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3 hours ago, AndyJWest said:

Would it involve a great deal of work for the developers? 

 

Yes, yes it would.

And what does it have to do with anything? Making this game is great deal of work, so they shouldn't do it? 

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5 hours ago, AndyJWest said:

Would it involve a great deal of work for the developers? 

 

Yes, yes it would.

 

Would it really though? 

We already have a coop mode, we already have the career working more or less as intented. 

As I see it, the work required would be mostly to get the career GUI exported to the coop mode , a slight tweaking of the career mission generation to include all available players in the generated mission and a way for the career system to track the progress of multiple players. 

 

I’m not saying it could be done overnight, but it seems to me, that most of the heavy lifting has already been done.

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6 hours ago, Finkeren said:

We already have a coop mode, we already have the career working more or less as intented. 

As I see it, the work required would be mostly to get the career GUI exported to the coop mode , a slight tweaking of the career mission generation to include all available players in the generated mission and a way for the career system to track the progress of multiple players. 

 

I’m not saying it could be done overnight, but it seems to me, that most of the heavy lifting has already been done.

 

I agree.  The DED guys have already worked out how to generate pvp coops from the career.  Their generator works really well.

 

 

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12 hours ago, AndyJWest said:

Would it involve a great deal of work for the developers? 

 

Yes, yes it would.

'Rolls eyes'

 

And yet a third party peice of software managed to do it for the old il2 with no trouble (dcg) and most of what is needed already exists...

 

Used to be fun flying co-op campaign missions with squad mates and getting more medals and promotions than them save DD_Fenrir!

Edited by DD_fruitbat
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COOPs are usually the most comprehensive WW2 airwar multiplayer experience.

The only thing that comes near are squads participating on dogfight servers, but even that cannot top a well made COOP mission.

 

Ongoing COOP career mode that actually constantly works is nothing short of a dream come true for every WW2 airwar enthusiast that plays this game.

Flights arranged every now and then so the war constantly goes on and you hop in whenever you have free time and like to dedicate your free time to this game.:fly:

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6 hours ago, Riderocket said:

does PWCG have coop??

 

Yes, it does.  It *mostly* works and I have been running cooperative missions with the unit from the ones I generate with it, but it's not without its problems and it looks like Pat is going to be focusing a bit more on making it a more viable coop tool in the future.

 

11 hours ago, Finkeren said:

 

Would it really though? 

We already have a coop mode, we already have the career working more or less as intented. 

As I see it, the work required would be mostly to get the career GUI exported to the coop mode , a slight tweaking of the career mission generation to include all available players in the generated mission and a way for the career system to track the progress of multiple players. 

 

I’m not saying it could be done overnight, but it seems to me, that most of the heavy lifting has already been done.

 

Pretty much this.  When I heard they were releasing coop and career mode, I pretty much had assumed that a marriage of the two was the desired end-game.  Not the ghost town cooperative server environment we have now.  There is a lack of cooperative content and there ought to be a streamlined way to take the content generated by career mode and allow it to be played cooperatively.  I am baffled as to why they didn't take this step. 

 

4 hours ago, DD_Arthur said:

 

I agree.  The DED guys have already worked out how to generate pvp coops from the career.  Their generator works really well.

 

 

 

Thanks, I will have to take a peek at this.

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Do you want coop missions or a coop campaign? The DCG generator, as described, seems to be a coop mission generator (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong).  You can already do that with PWCG missions.

 

Then there is a true coop campaign ... i.e. persistent results.  The level of effort depends on scope and expectations.  I plan to do a working coop campaign.  The first step will be several pilots flying for the same squadron.  That is (hopefully) pretty manageable.  Then there is the higher goal: many personas across squadrons across roles.  That is a massive leap.  And it will still be far short of ideal.

 

To really do coop campaigns right it has to be online.  That means standing up a server, security, mapping logins to campaigns and personas within campaigns  ... don't underestimate the level of effort.  Once the campaign is online you have design  issues: who gets to make missions?  How does time advance?  What about personas that are not in the mission?  Those come right off the top of my head.   I am sure that there are dozens more.

 

Not suggesting that it is impossible (it is not) or that it should not be done.  However, if you think it's easy ... I will simply respectfully disagree.

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1 hour ago, PatrickAWlson said:

Do you want coop missions or a coop campaign? The DCG generator, as described, seems to be a coop mission generator (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong).  You can already do that with PWCG missions.

 

Then there is a true coop campaign ... i.e. persistent results.  The level of effort depends on scope and expectations.  I plan to do a working coop campaign.  The first step will be several pilots flying for the same squadron.  That is (hopefully) pretty manageable.  Then there is the higher goal: many personas across squadrons across roles.  That is a massive leap.  And it will still be far short of ideal.

 

To really do coop campaigns right it has to be online.  That means standing up a server, security, mapping logins to campaigns and personas within campaigns  ... don't underestimate the level of effort.  Once the campaign is online you have design  issues: who gets to make missions?  How does time advance?  What about personas that are not in the mission?  Those come right off the top of my head.   I am sure that there are dozens more.

 

Not suggesting that it is impossible (it is not) or that it should not be done.  However, if you think it's easy ... I will simply respectfully disagree.

 

I'd like to invite a friend to join me on a career mission.  The systems are there already, so no, I don't think it's terribly difficult to pull off.   Amateur mod authors have accomplished it in their spare time.

 

The issues with any of this are the gigantic hurdles that players have to deal with to simply connect with one another.  It's 2018, these guys cant figure out how to connect two people without having them tinker endlessly with their router settings?  Port forwarding, really?  My friend and I spent the time to figure that nonsense out, but the very recent couple of updates broke something.  I simply hang and crash when trying to connect to a friend's coop server.  I've been gaming for 25+ years, I actually cant remember the last time when multiplayer connectivity was at this basic archaic level.

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Would love to generate some missions and fly them with my buddy, like in the RoF.

Did anyone tried to generate mission via PWCG and bring it in coop?

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2 hours ago, EAF_Ribbon said:

Would love to generate some missions and fly them with my buddy, like in the RoF.

Did anyone tried to generate mission via PWCG and bring it in coop?

PWCG has an option that explicitely tells to generate coop missions. Super easy to work with

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Sorry if this is going off topic, but would it be possible to extract "Quick Mission" from the game similar to PWCG mission extraction and coop hosting? 

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11 hours ago, PatrickAWlson said:

Do you want coop missions or a coop campaign? The DCG generator, as described, seems to be a coop mission generator (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong).  You can already do that with PWCG missions.

 

Then there is a true coop campaign ... i.e. persistent results.  The level of effort depends on scope and expectations.  I plan to do a working coop campaign.  The first step will be several pilots flying for the same squadron.  That is (hopefully) pretty manageable.  Then there is the higher goal: many personas across squadrons across roles.  That is a massive leap.  And it will still be far short of ideal.

 

To really do coop campaigns right it has to be online.  That means standing up a server, security, mapping logins to campaigns and personas within campaigns  ... don't underestimate the level of effort.  Once the campaign is online you have design  issues: who gets to make missions?  How does time advance?  What about personas that are not in the mission?  Those come right off the top of my head.   I am sure that there are dozens more.

 

Not suggesting that it is impossible (it is not) or that it should not be done.  However, if you think it's easy ... I will simply respectfully disagree.

 

Thanks Pat. That is what I was thinking about when I said it would be a lot of work. 

 

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For career co - op I wonder if you could have a drop in drop out system, where the the guy /guys joining the main career, can basically drop into a squad AI position ? Their results would get recorded as the ai pilots score in the main career. 

This might not be ideal for people that wish to fly the career together and only when they can all make it, but it would allow friends to fly together on the career and join while a mission is in progress. I imagine it would require the least amount of work on the back end career code, but offer the greatest accessibility in terms of joining and leaving a career in progress at will.

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1 hour ago, =FEW=Herne said:

For career co - op I wonder if you could have a drop in drop out system, where the the guy /guys joining the main career, can basically drop into a squad AI position ? Their results would get recorded as the ai pilots score in the main career. 

This might not be ideal for people that wish to fly the career together and only when they can all make it, but it would allow friends to fly together on the career and join while a mission is in progress. I imagine it would require the least amount of work on the back end career code, but offer the greatest accessibility in terms of joining and leaving a career in progress at will.

 

Honestly, once the infrastructure of getting the career mode and multiplayer mode to work together is in place, you could make several different modes of tracking progress without too much trouble.

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On 6/24/2018 at 12:30 AM, molotovb said:

 

I'd like to invite a friend to join me on a career mission.  The systems are there already, so no, I don't think it's terribly difficult to pull off.   Amateur mod authors have accomplished it in their spare time.

 

The issues with any of this are the gigantic hurdles that players have to deal with to simply connect with one another.  It's 2018, these guys cant figure out how to connect two people without having them tinker endlessly with their router settings?  Port forwarding, really?  My friend and I spent the time to figure that nonsense out, but the very recent couple of updates broke something.  I simply hang and crash when trying to connect to a friend's coop server.  I've been gaming for 25+ years, I actually cant remember the last time when multiplayer connectivity was at this basic archaic level.

Well, IS there an easier way to do what they need to do, other than port forwarding? The reason you have to do port forwarding is because one user is making their computer into a web server, and most routers aren't set up to allow that sort of thing easily for security reasons. Is there actually a solution out there to this issue, or are we just assuming it must be easy because its 2018 and our technology is indistinguishable from magic?

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28 minutes ago, RedKestrel said:

Well, IS there an easier way to do what they need to do, other than port forwarding? The reason you have to do port forwarding is because one user is making their computer into a web server, and most routers aren't set up to allow that sort of thing easily for security reasons. Is there actually a solution out there to this issue, or are we just assuming it must be easy because its 2018 and our technology is indistinguishable from magic?

 

most routers have UPnP which can allow UPnP related software, such as games to instruct the router as to which ports it should forward. Probably not a great idea if you are paranoid over security, but it can be very useful especially if you are not comfortable with computer networking and routers.

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4 hours ago, RedKestrel said:

Well, IS there an easier way to do what they need to do, other than port forwarding? The reason you have to do port forwarding is because one user is making their computer into a web server, and most routers aren't set up to allow that sort of thing easily for security reasons. Is there actually a solution out there to this issue, or are we just assuming it must be easy because its 2018 and our technology is indistinguishable from magic?

 

Easy? I'm not sure, but it does seem like every other multiplayer product on the market is able to do it - even the Indie guys with tiny teams.  Maybe you're right, maybe they are using magic. :)

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On 6/24/2018 at 12:29 AM, DD_Arthur said:

 

I agree.  The DED guys have already worked out how to generate pvp coops from the career.  Their generator works really well.

 

 

 

Cheers! :)

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Guys,

 

That is my eventual goal for MP and Career, but for now we have the cool work on DED and Pat Wilson is also working on this feature for PWCG.

 

Jason

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On 6/24/2018 at 3:38 AM, PatrickAWlson said:

Do you want coop missions or a coop campaign? The DCG generator, as described, seems to be a coop mission generator (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong). 

@PatrickAWlson  IL-2 DCG was capable of creating a campaign, as opposed to a set of unconnected missions.

 

 


 

Quote

 

IL-2 DCG generates dynamic campaigns for IL-2 Sturmovik and all it's sequels including "1946" by Maddox Games and 1C. Over time, the front lines will shift, airfields may be captured and recaptured and objects appear and disappear. Squadrons will transfer closer to the front as friendly ground forces advance or bug-out should the enemy break-through. Armour, truck columns, and trains will also move from city to city during missions and ships from harbour to harbour, starting the next mission at the city or harbor moved to in the previous mission. Build ups of guns and armour will also appear at the "front" and captured locations will have new defences generated. 

IL-2 DCG will also track plane losses, pilot deaths, and the replacement of both, awards and promotions, as well as the destruction and replacements of moving vehicle and tank columns, trains, and ships, and static ground defenses.  All in all, DCG offers IL-2 players a dynamic world in which to fly online and off.


 

 

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On 9/5/2018 at 5:00 PM, Jason_Williams said:

Guys,

 

That is my eventual goal for MP and Career, but for now we have the cool work on DED and Pat Wilson is also working on this feature for PWCG.

 

Jason

 

This is really nice to hear.

 

This whole series is great and lack only two things to become legendary:

 

1. Coop carrier - even as basic as buddies joining in instead of AI plane

2. Better AI - one that actually randomly use more maneuvers and in doing that can make mistakes like stalls and spins (no point in AI that uses same controls we do and as such taxi our CPU's to the limits and as a result always play it safe and predictable), it has to be more random and pushing the limits to sometimes even make a mistake.

 

Third would be 1 and 2 implemented in Flying Circus for us that love WWI era as well as WWII, but I can understand we are a minority. Still it's nice to have New Years wishes every year :)

 

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That is in development right now.  PWCG currently supports coop with one squadron.  Unfortunately PWCG is a desktop application, so users other than the host have no UI.  They can only fly the missions.

 

First step (in progress) is to create a web based code that the host can run.  Players in the campaign will be able to access the servers on the hosts machine and interact with it to see the campaign in a view that will replicate the information available in the PWCG desktop app.

 

After that comes the more challenging part: extending PWCG coop capability such that any number of players can play for any side.  In 5.0 PWCG added the ability to handle ore than one human player, so that is already out there.  That concept has to be extended to human players in any squadron.  Some of the uses are obvious: a continuous campaign being played by multiple users.  It is not MMO - participation will be controlled by the host.  But once this is in place a group of fliers will be able to play either side.  Squads can use PWCG for online wars.  I'm sure that there will be any number of uses.

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On 12/31/2018 at 9:34 AM, EAF_CyClops said:

it has to be more random and pushing the limits to sometimes even make a mistake.

 

It sometimes makes some mistakes yet, like trying to climb on you to get an attack oppotunity yet neglecting that you have too much initial kinetic E, leading to a stall.. I saw this.

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Ls&Gs

 

Currently within the BoBp sales area it mentions the following: Multiplayer Mode (Cooperative and Dedicated Server).

Therefore, as I now hope that I understand what the concept of Cooperative is all about, could/would somebody explain to me what the "dedicated server" for MP is as,  I thought that this might infer that there will be a server solely controlled by the IL2 team for BoBp.  

 

Regards

 

 

Edited by Haza

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5 hours ago, Haza said:

Ls&Gs

 

Currently within the BoBp sales area it mentions the following: Multiplayer Mode (Cooperative and Dedicated Server).

Therefore, as I now hope that I understand what the concept of Cooperative is all about, could/would somebody explain to me what the "dedicated server" for MP is as,  I thought that this might infer that there will be a server solely controlled by the IL2 team for BoBp.  

 

Regards

 

 

In gaming titles dedicated server refers to server software that enables game clients to connect.

 

In a less serious setup you as a player can host a game and become a server with clients connected to you. Your computer plays the game AND runs the server distributing all of the necessary info to players. That's not ideal once you get into larger player numbers so what you really want is a dedicated server that serves multiplayer info to a few dozen clients but doesn't play the game. In this way all of computer hardware is dedicated to serving the multiplayer session rather than running graphics, physics, etc.

 

It doesn't refer to the team running their own server.

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46 minutes ago, ShamrockOneFive said:

In gaming titles dedicated server refers to server software that enables game clients to connect.

 

In a less serious setup you as a player can host a game and become a server with clients connected to you. Your computer plays the game AND runs the server distributing all of the necessary info to players. That's not ideal once you get into larger player numbers so what you really want is a dedicated server that serves multiplayer info to a few dozen clients but doesn't play the game. In this way all of computer hardware is dedicated to serving the multiplayer session rather than running graphics, physics, etc.

 

It doesn't refer to the team running their own server.

 

Thanks for that clarification!

 

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