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Developer Diary, Part 195 - Discussion

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1 hour ago, Feathered_IV said:

 

I think what people are referring to is infantry as static objects.  Perhaps in small destructible groups which fire AT rounds or small arms, as a hazard to tanks and tank crews.  Certainly not as a first-person shooter.

 

I've heard this suggested before too. More like a fixed machine gun post (like we already have) or a flak gunner position than a moving band of infantry.

 

I'm less knowledgeable about WWII and eastern front ground battles than air battles... Did they have recoiless anti-tank rifles? Surely those would be fixed positions?

 

About the critique and criticism and cultural constructs around them... I will do my classic Canadian positive upfront and say that the team has done a great job here with Tank Crew so far!

 

I wrote an update about Tank Crew on Stormbirds (https://stormbirds.blog/2018/06/22/il-2-developer-diary-focuses-on-tank-crew/) on Friday and I put the question to my readers how interested they were in the ground battles and importantly for me, coverage on the development. Universally it seems that everyone who commented is interested. That shouldn't be taken for a scientific poll and is purely anecdotal but as anecdotes go I'd say that there is great interest. The interest stems from the combined arms aspect.

 

What we really need to do is make sure that people who are interested in armored games, who may be playing WT but don't love the less than historical match-ups, find out about Tank Crew. Awareness first and the combating inaccurate information would be second.

 

I think this is going to be an interesting title. I think too that it will take time to find its audience and its niche. The genius of what it is may take some time to really play out.

 

Looking forward to it! It's a great idea and a great effort and damn do those screenshots look great!

Edited by ShamrockOneFive
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1 hour ago, Feathered_IV said:

 

I think what people are referring to is infantry as static objects.  Perhaps in small destructible groups which fire AT rounds or small arms, as a hazard to tanks and tank crews.  Certainly not as a first-person shooter.

 

I've read that AT guns, mines, and infantry knocked out far more tanks than actual tanks did, so it'd be quite nice to see that very real danger represented in game!

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18 hours ago, TP_Sparky said:

I will buy the sim to support all aspects of IL2 and I hope it integrates well with our air campaigns.  I'll probably drive a tank around a bit but look for me in the sky.

 

Why the KV-1 and Tiger? Why not the Mk. IVg? The Existing T-34 and KV-1 76mm gun cannot penetrate the Tiger armor whilst the 88mm can penetrate theirs. What’s the fun in that? Given the few Tigers available at Kursk, why not give the Soviets Su-152s? Both Tiger and Su-152 can kill each other while the KV-1 cannot. Since the few Su-152’s were important in knocking out both Tigers and Elephants at Kursk I’d release the pair together. I understand releasing Rata and Bf-109F together in 1941 but in July 1943 don’t release a 1943 German tank and a 1940ish Soviet tank. 

 

I can't wait for a Flying Circus update.  Give me an early access SPAD to fly on the Kuban map and I'll be happy as a kitten.

 

 

I never saw anything about the KV-1 and the Tiger being the early access tanks, if anything it will be the tanks we already have in-game.

 

Also the Tiger has plenty of weak spots that can be penned by the russian tanks, if you plan on fighting it head on then you're doing it wrong. Flank, Flank, Flank, don't try and fight it head on and get yourself killed and then complain that you can't pen it frontally (technically you can penn it frontally).

 

Use tactics. If you think the Tiger is bad then just wait for the Ferdinand, almost nothing could penetrate it from the front and at range it was impenetrable, but it's a very slow beast so it can be flanked and killed quite easily.

 

Just gonna have to learn the tanks and their weaknesses just like we do with aircraft.

 

Great job Devs, can't wait to see the Sherman and the Ferdinand.

Edited by Legioneod

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Got really excited after seeing the screens and video. Finally, finally tank sim with interiors etc, after god knows how many years of waiting since TvsT etc. And it will have OR support. Really can't wait this one to be released!

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1 hour ago, Legioneod said:

I never saw anything about the KV-1 and the Tiger being the early access tanks, if anything it will be the tanks we already have in-game.

 

It literally says it in the dev diary

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8 minutes ago, DB605 said:

Got really excited after seeing the screens and video. Finally, finally tank sim with interiors etc, after god knows how many years of waiting since TvsT etc. And it will have OR support. Really can't wait this one to be released!

 

Red Orchestra 2 had tanks with fully modeled interiors, though it was far from a sim. What the IL-2 devs have just done, is basically take RO2 tanks (which I REALLY freaking loved) added MORE tanks, and then made it multiplayer, multicrew, sim tanks. Including my favorite tank of that period... The Glorious Deathtrap Sherman! xD

 

This has got me beyond excited tbh.

 

 

 

@Jason_Williams Would you be able to tell us if certain tanks are getting mods like the aircraft do? So for example, the Sherman might by default have a 75mm main gun, but a mod might allow it to have a 76mm? Or maybe add-on armor like piece of track or some vegetation to use as camo?

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6 minutes ago, kitsunelegend said:

 

  

@Jason_Williams Would you be able to tell us if certain tanks are getting mods like the aircraft do? So for example, the Sherman might by default have a 75mm main gun, but a mod might allow it to have a 76mm? Or maybe add-on armor like piece of track or some vegetation to use as camo?

It's quite the big change. They had completely different turrets that require different interiors (Sherman 76 for example had wet stowage), and if my guess is right, I think we will get the early small hatch M4A2 which is most appropriate for 1943 and most appropriate for the USMC as that was the most used tank until 1945 where they began using the M4A3 more, and small hatched shermans never mounted the T23 turret that mounted the 76mm M1

Edited by RoflSeal

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2 minutes ago, RoflSeal said:

It literally says it in the dev diary

My bad man, funny thing is I read it too. I need to pay more attention. Either way it doesnt change what I said about fighting it.

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Really very nice video, i have one question, maybe already asked, in the video the KV is it not a KV-85? The first version of the KV equipped with the 85 mm gun that shall later equip the T34. 

I am very impress with the quality of the graphics and the smoothness of this all, shall I buy a game that is not the sort of game I buy normally? I think so! :salute:

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I’m torn...torn do you hear? Where will I find the time? Just as the new BotB is completed this terrific tank sim will be rearing its armored head? I’m using up all my time in careers in BoX now let alone when the Western Front map appears this year.I play CloD occasionally now but since it isn’t compatible with VR it really isn’t in the running with BoX VR experience...

   Don’t get me wrong the Battle of Kursk has fascinated me for years having first read Alan Clark’s description of the battle in his book “Barbarossa” ( “Death ride of the 4th SS Panzer Army”), but more recently the absolutely terrific book “Blood,Steel & Myth,”by George Nipe. ( I highly suggest anyone who really wants to know what happened on the southern side of the bulge with the SS & Gross Deutschland division and its Panther & Tiger elements should find a copy of this book while we wait for the sim...) It will be interesting how game play will be designed and how the map (esp.Soviet defensive lines ,)will be drawn- will it be close to the battlefield or a simple version of the same? I do play the tank missions here & enjoy them immensely but they are relatively simple scenarios.

 I can’t imagine coordinating an aviation campaign & Tank campaign ( let me hasten to add I’ve been wrong before..) but I can see that the map might be easily added to the BoX platform much like the myriad maps we’ve all seen in the original Il-2 Sturmovik.With all the new tanks available there would be surfeit targets for the Hs-129’s, Ju-87G’s & of course the sim’s namesake the Il-2 .

Oh yes I’ll be first in line to pre-purchase this sim even though I cannot figure when I’ll find the time to really devote the time to master it.....oh yes and then there’s “The Flying Circus...” maybe I’ll just have to retire from the real world ....

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1 hour ago, kitsunelegend said:

 

be able to tell us if certain tanks are getting mods like the aircraft do? So for example, the Sherman might by default have a 75mm main gun, but a mod might allow it to have a 76mm? Or maybe add-on armor like piece of track or some vegetation to use as camo?

 

All our tanks will have one type of main gun. No time to make different combinations.

 

Jason

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Are some sp missions planned together with the first two tanks or we can play only in mp?

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33 minutes ago, Jason_Williams said:

 

All our tanks will have one type of main gun. No time to make different combinations.

 

Jason

 

Aww, ok. =(

 

What about armor add-ons like tracks, sandbags, and other things? I know the US used those quite a bit, and I think even Germany used track links as some extra armor. Just curious mind you. :)

 

I am super freaking excited though! It almost makes me want to play RO2 while I wait. I've been itching for a tank game for so long now... those "other" tank games are just meh to me now-a-days...

 

Also, I'm assuming the crew members will be visually modeled and animated inside the tanks right? How will you model them when they get injured or killed but the tank still continues to operate?

 

Sorry for all the questions, I'm just really looking forward to this! =D

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Not having infantry makes me sit on the fence for this project...

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2 minutes ago, Brano said:

Not having infantry makes me sit on the fence for this project...

Maybe one day they'll be able to add them but for now it's just about tank vs tank combat. Can't have tons of ai infantry running around with highly detailed tanks and aircraft flying overhead, the game might not be able to handle all of that right now, but there is always hope for it in the future.

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11 hours ago, Juri_JS said:

Just add some more static infantry units, like the MGs we already have in the game. For example mortar or rifle teams that can be placed in field fortifications. I think this would be entirely sufficient. It wouldn't require any work on complex animations or AI behaviour and the soldier models that already exist in the game could be used.

Absolutely. This should be very possible for the developers. Heck, modders could probably come up with such things.

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1 hour ago, NETSCAPE said:

Why was my post deleted? Was it too rational? 

 

I deleted all unhelpful posts including mine. Drop the attitude Jared and lets move on.

 

Jason

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when would the pre-order be available, please?

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Just now, adonys said:

when would the pre-order be available, please?

 

Cannot find any reference - is there a date?

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20 hours ago, Medicated said:

 

Jason, just a quick question if you are able to answer - when you say you don't have the technology to make infantry, are you meaning player-controllable infantry (like a first person shooter) or just AI infantry in general? I certainly understand not having the player-controllable aspect of infantry (and I think most are not looking for that in this title, this should be focusing on tank simulation), but would hope for AI infantry to be added to have more complete battles with tanks/armies. I do know that killing infantry can make it more difficult to sell a product in certain countries due to age restrictions, gore, etc but I still think it would be important to have the best simulation possible.

 

With or without infantry, I will still be excited to play this title as much as possible! Looking forward to early access to try it out!

 

When Jason refers to not having the technology he means in the rigging and animation department with regards to experienced people. Animating vehicles, wheels, flaps, rudders etc is one thing. Creating a skeleton, anim retargeting events, collision and physics systems is something else entirely. This is why you don't see dismounted infantry running around the battlefield in BoX and instead only see those associated with vehicles and crewed weapons.

 

Jason has actually reached out to the community in the past looking for people that have experience in this side of game development. Sadly however, I don't think anyone ever came forward. It's a side of development that's incredibly intricate.  

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58 minutes ago, adonys said:

when would the pre-order be available, please?

 

57 minutes ago, EAF19_Marsh said:

Cannot find any reference - is there a date?

 

Towards of the end of the DD: "We plan to start the Early Access program for Tank Crew: Clash at Prokhorovka as early as this July."

 

That means pre-order will be up very soon, so the people who pre-ordered can start with the early access.

Edited by Jade_Monkey

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42 minutes ago, DetCord12B said:

 

When Jason refers to not having the technology he means in the rigging and animation department with regards to experienced people. Animating vehicles, wheels, flaps, rudders etc is one thing. Creating a skeleton, anim retargeting events, collision and physics systems is something else entirely. This is why you don't see dismounted infantry running around the battlefield in BoX and instead only see those associated with vehicles and crewed weapons.

 

Jason has actually reached out to the community in the past looking for people that have experience in this side of game development. Sadly however, I don't think anyone ever came forward. It's a side of development that's incredibly intricate.  

 

Gotcha, that is actually what I figured. I certainly understand it is not a small undertaking by any means to create platoons of infantry, and I never meant anything in my post to be construed as unappreciative of all the hard work going in to Tank Crew to have accurate tank warfare. There will be tons of fun to be had in destroying convoys of trucks, AAA vehicles, tanks, etc along with artillery/AT gun emplacements and storage depots. If I knew how to code infantry, I would offer my assistance without hesitation, but I certainly have no experience in that realm. I am constantly surprised by the work that this relatively small team is able to undertake to create such a game that offers as much as it does. Should be tons of fun!

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I was silently hoping for infantry like in The Steel fury tank game, letter adopted in main game. I wish best for this project but my heart is with Flying circus :)

Edited by 307_Tomcat

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Im in for 100%. WW2 Tanks sim must be supported more than air sims. I know there will be no infantry, reduced sp content(i hope more caimpaigns will be created by the community). I just hope for detailed dm, penetration model and good ai and if possible some not moving soldiers in trenches. Damned, I cant wait for the panther

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4 hours ago, 6./ZG26_Gielow said:

I know you guys don't deserve it but here it comes:

 

That manual is freely available from any number of places on the web.

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Hello,

I'm really looking forward to finally play a real tank sim :) I have just two question:

1. If player can occupy one of the 4 spots, does it mean that I will be able to play multiplayer with my 3 friends in the same tank?

2. Will be there also a coop campaign / career so I can train with my friends against AI?

 

Thank you, can't wait for pre-order :)

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Quote

That means pre-order will be up very soon, so the people who pre-ordered can start with the early access.

 

Must be. Thanks.

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Eastern front ground battles with no infantry? Think I'll pass...☹️

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1 hour ago, Nibbio said:

Eastern front ground battles with no infantry? Think I'll pass...☹️

Tank Clash will be just a first step. With time some extremally basic infantry - i.e. like in "Panzer Elite" from 1999 may be implemented. Who knows. Just not letting the tanks to roam freely, occupying important targets.

 

What i have seen i can tell it will be a great game. Since 2008 Steel Fury: Kharkov and T-34 vs. Tiger there was no any tank simulator. Even one. 

I've spent lot of time playing SF:K and i was really dissapointed noone tried to continue with this idea.

Personally i'm waiting Tank Clash eagerly.👍

Edited by bies

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bye bye war thunder! did someone post the video/dev block over there? :D

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I have War Thunder just to look at some tank 3D models and armor. As a game War Thunder Ground Battles even is sim mode is just an arcade shooter with capturing circles, shooting in between houses and without systems, interiors, animations, gunsights etc.

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Sherman!, im comming! 😄

11.jpg


I have one question for devs, we will have Career mode? , i dont find any informations about this...

Edited by GTursonA523

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17 minutes ago, GTursonA523 said:

Sherman!, im comming! 😄

11.jpg


I have one question for devs, we will have Career mode? , i dont find any informations about this...

 

Scripted campaigns were mentioned in the announcement. No mention of a Career mode at this point.

 

I assume that it would be possible to do if they had time and that may be the biggest issue.

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So without AI infantry we are going to get more sophisticated War Thunder experience. Or realistic vehicles in unrealistic environment game. Tigers and Panthers seal-clubbing soviets at 1500m + distances in not very well chosen battle of Prokhorovka (which was operational blunder of gen. Rotmistrov losing 75% of his 5th Guards Tank Army in futile head on attacks against strongest german tank assemly of 2nd SS Panzerkorps).. I was expecting at least Steel Fury level of combined arms operations. Not to mention that competition DCS has infantry in their Ground Forces DLC.

Btw largest tank battle was fought in 1941 at Dubno-Brody. Check this video and listen carefully to comments of importance of infantry on battlefield.

 

 
 
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10 minutes ago, Brano said:

So without AI infantry we are going to get more sophisticated War Thunder experience. Or realistic vehicles in unrealistic environment game. Tigers and Panthers seal-clubbing soviets at 1500m + distances in not very well chosen battle of Prokhorovka (which was operational blunder of gen. Rotmistrov losing 75% of his 5th Guards Tank Army in futile head on attacks against strongest german tank assemly of 2nd SS Panzerkorps).. I was expecting at least Steel Fury level of combined arms operations. Not to mention that competition DCS has infantry in their Ground Forces DLC.

Btw largest tank battle was fought in 1941 at Dubno-Brody. Check this video and listen carefully to comments of importance of infantry on battlefield.

 

 
 

 

Brano, Its all about time and resource. You have to do the best you can with what you've got. Personally I'm not all that interested in tanks, but even I can see that Tank Crew is going to take tank battles to a whole new level in terms of tank simulation. I'm sure it's going to appeal to many people who enjoy the likes of WoT and WT tanks.

 

Just because infantry is unlikely to be a part of the upcoming game, it doesn't mean it will never be part of future IL2 tank games. As with the rest of Great Battles series, It will likely improve over time.

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10 hours ago, LukeFF said:

 

That manual is freely available from any number of places on the web.

It is free of course, otherwise it would be piracy and not allowed here.

 

It is just noone remebered to share it here to other people that do not know about it.  

 

Don´t be selfish next time and share stuff. 

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