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Kseremak

Turbulence when flying through vortices of air of another plane

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Would it be hard or resource-heavy to model some basic turbulence when flying through vortices of air generated by another plane?

It was an important factor in real world. 

It would be some random turbulence in some area behind flying plane not to engage PC resources and it would make the experience more real.

I.e. Johannes Steinhoff, Luftwaffe fighter ace.

Quote

"I passed one that looked as if it was hanging motionless in the air (I am too fast!). The one above me went into a steep right-hand turn, his pale blue underside standing out against the purple sky. Another banked right in front of the Me's nose. Violent jolt as I flew through his airscrew eddies."

 

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25 minutes ago, Kseremak said:

Would it be hard or resource-heavy to model some basic turbulence when flying through vortices of air generated by another plane?

It was an important factor in real world. 

It would be some random turbulence in some area behind flying plane not to engage PC resources and it would make the experience more real.

I.e. Johannes Steinhoff, Luftwaffe fighter ace.

 

 

Its not modeled in multiplayer because of latency issues.

 

If i remember correct there is turbulence in singleplayer.

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1 minute ago, Higaluto said:

 

Its not modeled in multiplayer because of latency issues.

 

If i remember correct there is turbulence in singleplayer.

 

Correct.

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One more time: It's definitely there in single player.

 

I crashed my plane just yesterday when flying a FW 190 A5 at high speed at tree top level, when being a little too optimistic with closely crossing an enemy Spitfire's path, losing control over my plane.

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I hope developers will find a way to implement it in lower latency MP servers - server owner would decide if the server can cope with them.

Thanks for answers.

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2 hours ago, Kseremak said:

I hope developers will find a way to implement it in lower latency MP servers - server owner would decide if the server can cope with them.

Thanks for answers.

 

"I hope UN finds a way to implement world peace on Earth. Country leaders would decide if their country can cope with it."

 

😸

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11 minutes ago, moosya said:

"I hope UN finds a way to implement world peace on Earth. Country leaders would decide if their country can cope with it."

Is the ~50ms latecy ( 1/20 fraction of a second ) really redarding many meters long and fluent stream of turbulent air and - at the some time - not retarding precision lead shooting when 2-3 meters are difference between hit or miss?

 

I mean i know the developers are doing their best and their would like - for sure - to implement this feature to MP also, but i just don't know why something as fluent as airscrew eddies can be tricky or difficult to implement because of tiny latecy. Maybe there is some other reason.

 

cheers

Edited by bies

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There's prop wash for sure, as for turbulence, maybe I'm crazy but the only MP server I feel it's in was TAW. WoL is too arcade for it.

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25 minutes ago, bies said:

Is the ~50ms latecy ( 1/20 fraction of a second ) really redarding many meters long and fluent stream of turbulent air and - at the some time - not retarding precision lead shooting when 2-3 meters are difference between hit or miss?

 

I mean i know the developers are doing their best and their would like - for sure - to implement this feature to MP also, but i just don't know why something as fluent as airscrew eddies can be tricky or difficult to implement because of tiny latecy. Maybe there is some other reason.

 

cheers

 

i was just being sarcastic towards his general statement of "fix latency please. ok. bye!".. :) 

 

15 minutes ago, Y-29.Silky said:

There's prop wash for sure, as for turbulence, maybe I'm crazy but the only MP server I feel it's in was TAW. WoL is too arcade for it.

 

i've seen it running fine in MP as well, although it was a coop mission with www guys..  It was pretty darn difficult to shot down an enemy with my plane jerking all around while chasing the baddies..

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Alright, I've spent all day and made a new skin pack. Unfortunately I didn't get them all either because the download file didn't exist anymore, there were a few with file names that didn't tell me what plane it was for and I'm too lazy to install GIMP, and for some reason I couldn't find any skins for the La-5FN.  I skipped the non-historical skinsand took out the duplicate skins where the only difference was the flight number 1-12, but there's easily over 1000. Once the guys over at M4T get a hold of me, it should be up shortly. 

 

EDIT: It looks like I posted this in the wrong thread. :dash:

Edited by Y-29.Silky
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Well, this is how hard Wing Vortices can hit, even from a 6.5ton Aircraft. 

 

There was a Civil Aviation Accident in France with a 1 ton Dr.400 and an An-2, in which the Dr.400 simply got flipped over on Take-Off killing all 4 on Board. They Recreated in a Controlled Manner. It's quite astonishing to see. 

 

 

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7 hours ago, 6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann said:

Well, this is how hard Wing Vortices can hit, even from a 6.5ton Aircraft. 

 

There was a Civil Aviation Accident in France with a 1 ton Dr.400 and an An-2, in which the Dr.400 simply got flipped over on Take-Off killing all 4 on Board. They Recreated in a Controlled Manner. It's quite astonishing to see. 

 

 

in the ground school course I took, my instructor talked about this incident and several others involving light aircraft and bigger jets. Scary stuff.

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In single player Campaign it is modeled I may asure you, I have experience it more than once in my more than 107 missions I played. But the strongest efects is when behind bombers (twin engine planes) at high altitudes. :salute:

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Prop wash and wake turbulence two different things. The first one is created by spiraling airflow induced by  propeller. The second one (wake turbulence) is generated by wingtip vortices. Wake turbulence is the main reason  aircraft are spaced out during take off and landing. This is the most dangerous especially on take off and landing when altitude insufficient for recovery 

 

I imagine pretty significant load on CPU modeling proper wake turbulence behind particular aircraft. It greatly affected by many factors including AC speed, configuration , wind direction and etc. Waste of time IMHO for combat sim. 

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We've got half of people saying it is and half saying it isn't for MP? 

 

Not at the computer now but is there any further opinion as to whether it is or not? Both wake turbulence and prop wash, or which?

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2 hours ago, senseispcc said:

In single player Campaign it is modeled I may asure you, I have experience it more than once in my more than 107 missions I played. But the strongest efects is when behind bombers (twin engine planes) at high altitudes. :salute:

If I'm behind a bomber I don't usually notice the turbulence tbh...except for the turbulence caused by 7.62mm bullets shooting out my engine lol.

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It definitely isn't in Wings of Liberty. Not sure if it's server specific though. Wasn't in TAW either during the last session of it. Not sure on Coco/Finnish.

It definitely is in Singleplayer.


It is only really prop wash, no major vortices.

Edited by peregrine7

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Is there an option to turn it on or off then? How would some servers have it and others not, or singleplayer and not multiplayer?

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Videos or wake turbulence didn’t happen....  

prop wash I could imagine... but then again I wouldn’t be able to tell if was just turbulent air in weather condition settings,, unless there’s some sort of buffeting when behind another aircraft...

 

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36 minutes ago, spartan85 said:

Videos or wake turbulence didn’t happen....  

prop wash I could imagine... but then again I wouldn’t be able to tell if was just turbulent air in weather condition settings,, unless there’s some sort of buffeting when behind another aircraft...

 

 

 I think their game engine does model wake turbulence, look at 0.56 onwards. The Bos engine is based on a much improved version of the Rof engine.

 

 

 

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Whatever is modelled.....it happens in single-player only at the moment........

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30 minutes ago, DD_Arthur said:

Whatever is modelled.....it happens in single-player only at the moment........

 

Can't say I've ever noticed anything in single player either, so it must be pretty subtle...

Edited by DD_fruitbat

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Start a quick mission.  Make yourself a single seater and in the group below give yourself a HE-111.  Start mission,  formate on 111, judge for yourself.:salute:

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1 hour ago, DD_Arthur said:

Whatever is modelled.....it happens in single-player only at the moment........

 

I have defo had turbulence due to aircraft wake in MP

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11 minutes ago, AeroAce said:

 

I have defo had turbulence due to aircraft wake in MP

 

Well thats great.:salute:  I'd PM Han about it as he'll no doubt be pleased....and surprised:o:

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I know general turbulence (wind) is in the game, that's a fact. It's a setting in the Full Mission editor and I have experienced it many times.

 

But the prop wash generated turbulence? I'm very skeptical. I would need some solid evidence to convince me, or a devs statement.

 

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6 hours ago, bzc3lk said:

 

 I think their game engine does model wake turbulence, look at 0.56 onwards. The Bos engine is based on a much improved version of the Rof engine.

 

 

 

Yes yes yes! I was remembering this as well!  I’d love to see examples in il2.  With the tech we have now..

awwe I miss it, good old stick and rudder...

I’m gonna go play it on my day off!

Ohhh, little off topic but I suppose maybe related, is there concussion experienced within tanks from bombs, and would there be from another tanks cannon if it’s firing near by?  And how far or what distance does a shockwave carry?

i find flak, though going boom around me, doesn’t cause any turbulence unless it’s a direct hit.. 

maybe just in movies but as formations move through flak barrage, the plane is bouncing around, and would assume so from concussion/ shockwave blast...????

 

please don’t mind my rambling...... S~

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7 hours ago, DD_fruitbat said:

 

Can't say I've ever noticed anything in single player either, so it must be pretty subtle...

 

Just tested on Quick Mission grabbing a plane and flying behind HS-129 Ducks at 2000m. Conditions- no wind. There appears to be no such effect. You fly right behind the Ducks up close and there is no such prop wash or any buffeting to be had. 

 

7 hours ago, DD_Arthur said:

Start a quick mission.  Make yourself a single seater and in the group below give yourself a HE-111.  Start mission,  formate on 111, judge for yourself.:salute:

 

Nope, It definitely doesn't seem to be in quick mission. Vids, or it didn't happen.

 

How to enable the effect?

Edited by Mcdaddy

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I remember that video as well but I think I also remember that the feature wasn't implemented due to the impact to the game but I could be wrong.

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Wow, I apologize for my former answer. Tested in Singleplayer:


Custom Difficulty + Friendly Bombers - No turbulence

Custom Difficulty + Enemy Bombers   - No turbulence

Expert Preset       +  Friendly Bombers - No turbulence

 

Custom preset was basically expert but with invulnerable + allow spectators. I wondered if maybe it was a hidden setting in the Expert preset (much like our graphics menu currently, AHEM) but no. It's not linked to enemies only as well. I could've sworn this was previously in the game.

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58 minutes ago, DD_Arthur said:

Is this prop wash or turbulence? 

 

 

For the most part of your vid, you are too high for entering propwash at that distance. At about 50 m or so distance, you enter porpwash when you can see the underiside of the leading aircraft. Air is acellerated downwards (that keeps you up) as it passes over the wings, and so are the vortices.

 

Not sure if anything like that is implemented in this game. But I doubt it. Also for larger aircraft, I find it very noticeable when you are trainling one inside his vortices. In your vid, it is still rather subtle IMHO.

 

You can notice that when flying in airliners. If you have an extended period of repeated, "uncomfortable" rocking of the aircraft, then most often the pilot flys in the vortices of a leading aircraft. If he just moved a couple of dozen meters, things would get much better. It is also a reason why airline rides in the evening are less comfortable than the early morning ones. There's just so much wake already in the airway that needs some tome to calm. The huge increase in traffic really made the ride much less comfortble.

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I don't think this is implemented in game tbh. I've been trying to pay attention when I'm close to other aircraft and I don't notice any difference at all.

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It would be nice if there was a yes or no from devs on this....

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I was ”lucky” to get in the wake of other aircraft. Even though its called it turbulence not quite like weather related turbulence. What happens when airplane gets into wake vertex usually results in uncontrollable roll ( which could easily get aircraft  inverted ) I don’t think it’s modeled in current version of the game

 

 

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I don't think there is wake turbulence modelled in the game.  Prop wash is certainly modelled in single-player.

 

 

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5 hours ago, DD_Arthur said:

I don't think there is wake turbulence modelled in the game.  Prop wash is certainly modelled in single-player.

 

Is there a reason for it not be „modelled“ in MP? If I can fly through smoke of an aircraft, why not through propwash?

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