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WT & IL2

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Opinions aside, how many here came from WT? If you did, can you explain a little of your thought process when switching over, and what did you notice about il2 that made you switch? 

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I tried WT. I like its concept. Hate to community. If there was a decent SP in WT I'd still play it. WT online is like standing in a primary school playground.

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I played WT while waiting for BoS to enter early access after getting bored with RoF, does that count?

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44 minutes ago, BeastyBaiter said:

I played WT while waiting for BoS to enter early access after getting bored with RoF, does that count?

Yeah, it counts.

45 minutes ago, Rolling_Thunder said:

I tried WT. I like its concept. Hate to community. If there was a decent SP in WT I'd still play it. WT online is like standing in a primary school playground.

Sad but true, to be fair, a free, and easy to get into game will draw in a pretty large community, oftentimes toxic. 

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WT seemed promising at first as it could be seen as a successor to Il-2 1946 at a time when the genre was rather empty. However, it quickly became apparent that it was heading in the wrong direction. Tanks were quite fun until I had enough of the endless fights for white circles painted on the ground.

 

It's unfortunate that the finest digital vehicle library is wasted by WT's monolithic gameplay. I think I would have stayed if Gaijin had focused on improving the underlying mechanics rather than the constant stream of stuff to grind. After being away for a few years, I don't think I could ever come back; the grind to reach an interesting tier would be prohibitive.

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13 minutes ago, Mitthrawnuruodo said:

It's unfortunate that the finest digital vehicle library is wasted by WT's monolithic gameplay. I think I would have stayed if Gaijin had focused on improving the underlying mechanics rather than the constant stream of stuff to grind. After being away for a few years, I don't think I could ever come back; the grind to reach an interesting tier would be prohibitive.

 

The "free to play" business model demands the constant stream of newer and newer stuff. The point of the grind is to frustrate enough so users will buy the "GE" relief. Without new vehicles people would complete tech trees eventually and the revenue would stop.

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I was deep in War Thunder and have spent quite a lot of time and money on the game. I started playing in 2013 and enjoyed the majority of the first two years. Started with Arcade, dabbled in Historical Battles then got tired of mouse aim gameplay for airplanes. By the end of 2014 I had a full Saitek sim setup with joystick, pedals, throttle and trackir. From 2014 to 2016 I loved everything to do with planes in the Sim game modes and got really proficient at flying. Its how I revived my joysitck muscle memory and gained pedal proficiency. After a little over a year the small issues started to grow, such as unfair BR placement of planes in the opposition and my disdain for using blueprint planes in order to stay competitive. I started to appreciate historical lineups and the like instead of "balance by machine perceived capability on paper". The flight models started to get boring for me as I felt too much familiarity between completely unrelated airframes. Once Tanks came out I was somewhat on board with the idea and enjoyed a few months of it but the grind frustration in that game mode was far beyond what the air game modes were and I quickly grew tired of it. The same issues showed in that game mode as what had been happening in air mode for years. I tried to stick around as I had spent money in the game and didnt want to lose that value but there is a breaking point for everyone.

 

Once IL-2 started appearing more and more in my steam home pages during its BoS development cycle I grew fond of it. At first I didnt want to bite because I felt I already had something sufficient in my game library but after a while I finally decided to pick it up on sale. I was instantly hooked as my knowledge was again tested with the more touchy, but still familiar flight models. The Fw-190 i loved and adored shown brightly here and I have many multiplayer kills under my belt with that aircraft.

 

I tried to see about a year after not touching war thunder if anything had changed for the better... it seems at this rate the problems will never be fixed and are probably not even seen as problems any more.

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Didn't come from WT, but played it after I had played IL2 (the original) for years.

What I found was that if you want to just jump into immediate action, don't have to think too hard and have a bit of a laugh, it was ok.

There are a lot of twats in it though that I would love to bump into on a dark night..

I still jump in every now and then, but a serious historical sim it is not...

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wt is horrible to play with mouse but its pretty good on simulator battles where you need a stick

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same as quite a few people, arcade > historical and then finally FRB. The reason I moved was the community moderation team was awful and a lot of them having a bouncer power complex for anyone who voiced criticism (Stuka D-5 air breaks debate being a standout case) and this helped WT's dev cycle of adding more broken things/ gimmicks to satisfy players rather than core game play. not to mention the constant power creep and obvious cash grabs 

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6 hours ago, Trooper117 said:

Didn't come from WT, but played it after I had played IL2 (the original) for years.

What I found was that if you want to just jump into immediate action, don't have to think too hard and have a bit of a laugh, it was ok.

There are a lot of twats in it though that I would love to bump into on a dark night..

I still jump in every now and then, but a serious historical sim it is not...

My thoughts exactly, while it can be fun, one should not play it for any other aspects. I used to play it a lot, and I thought it was fun until I kinda just got sick of it and found other things to play. (like il2 :good:) As far as the community, it is just absolutely terrible, and quite frankly I’ve had some of the worst online experiences in that game. I still play a game or two of it every once and awhile, but the gameplay is pretty repetitive, so I try to stay away. 

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I came from WT too! For me IL2 has more saying power though. Got myself the boxed version because it looked nice and I wanted to try out my stick, the first thing I noticed was how much I got my ass kicked, because I did start with the very beginning with TAW, oh well! The main thing is making me stay is the ME, which I like.

Edited by Leon_Portier

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I tried WT after the IL2 Great Battles. Uninstalled it right after playing the training mission with I-153 and a SP mission on Spit mkV. I couldn't hit a thing. The controls are awful. I don't have any problems hitting targets in both IL, new and old, but WT is weird.

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1 hour ago, Arthur-A said:

I tried WT after the IL2 Great Battles. Uninstalled it right after playing the training mission with I-153 and a SP mission on Spit mkV. I couldn't hit a thing. The controls are awful. I don't have any problems hitting targets in both IL, new and old, but WT is weird.

 

Anything can get "weird" in the WT after the next patch... The company often meddles with everything in the name "of balance". The WT has a different networking model than the BoX, too - you have to deal with twice the latency in the former.

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i think war thunder is NOT pay to win for the balance thing yet they get thousands

 

honestly thios kind of things give me some hope in humanity

 

i enjoy simulator battles once in a while and get a kd ratio of like 5 and didnt spend any money on it and even may get some from it

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44 minutes ago, TheBlackPenguin said:

It runs natively on Linux :). I think they're going Vulkan for rendering as it can be enabled via this post, you'll have to scroll a bit:

 

https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/402831-v177-and-20fps-and-black-blotches-on-ground/&page=5

 

I treat it as an eye candy arcade game with pretty models, that way I won't be disappointed.

Yes, beautiful modeling, I’ll give it that. Certainly a very pretty game with some well (visually) designed aircraft.

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I was playing War Thunder between old legacy IL2 and new IL2:BoX.

 

My impressions: in IL2 every aircraft is different and unique, different systems, different handling, different limitations. In WT planes are more like copy->paste with different max speeds/climbs/turn and different graphic. Considering sheer amount of planes already present in WT it will be impossible to increase realism in the future, it would require huge army of additional experienced and dedicated coders working exclusively on the smallest least profitable SIM mode for many, many years. It would be a huge cost for the company without generating additional profit - most WT's community don't want realism, they want new planes. 

 

The other big drawback of WT are non-historical plane sets. Shooting Bf-109 by Corsair over China... Fighting Bf-109F as Thunderbolt because of Battle Rating... Shooting American FW190 as German FW190... This "alternate history world" kills the immersion.

It also forced developers to add icons to sim mode to avoid huge friendly fire fiesta and this icons are another killer.

 

Next is grind. The grind itself is just a simple psychological mechanism to motivate people to play. It works for many people, not for me. I think if in WT all planes would be available from the beginning the game would bore people during one year and it would show its shallowness.

There were dozens of flight sims before and none of them needed grind mechanic because they were interesting enough to make people eager to play. You play sims to feel the joy not to "upgrade your plane or pilot."

 

Another thing is community. Here people and devs are interested in realism and clear, defined small steps in developement of the product and communication between devs and community is very good.

In WT 90% of the community are children, they don't want realism, just more and more copy->paste stuff, more planes, more tanks - as fast and as many as possible, devs are working on Arcade because it's the biggest most profit generating mode. 

 

Sometimes i still play some sim battle in WT because my brother didn't buy IL2 yet.;)

 

Just compare the sheer amount of likes under every update in small IL2 community and small amount of likes in huge WT community. It can tell me something.

 

I'm glad WT exists because it is doing good job popularizing flight simulators among people who had no previous contact with them. Many of them, when they want something more, go to IL2 and DCS.

 

The same scale:

image.thumb.png.fbc03ad89143366f1af4ebfc938bd754.png

Edited by bies
  • Upvote 7

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WT clouds pre console updates, were actually pretty awesome. The game was, and probably still is really quite beautiful, but playing in VR, the FM always felt a bit off. Some AC were better than others but it always seemed a bit "floaty" to me, and an hour or two was enough to make me feel a bit queazy

 

When the VR patch came out for IL2, it was love at first flight. The flight models felt good, and it was extremely comfortable. Seeing the progress the team have made with IL2 over the last year ( the last year being the time frame that have been regularly playing ) is quite incredible for a small team.

 

One of the things that really makes these dev's stand out is the good community interaction, and I love the way that Jason derails the Hype train before it can even leave the station :) I remember reading a post regarding BOBP where someone said they would be able to see their house. Jason very quickly set out to manage all our expectations. I very much respect the under promise and over deliver approach these guys seem to take. 

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S!

 

 WT has it´s merits. It runs amazingly well even on highest settings. FPS is high. But high settings are a waste in tank battles, you just hamper yourself using best graphics vs players with lesser details. One thing WT does better than BoX or DCS are the dots and LOD transitions on planes. It just works and you do not have these disappearing planes and bulky LOD from a dot to a plane. Spotting a plane below you is better than in BoX. Still not too easy, you can sneak away using terrain etc. But ID is easier and determining the plane position. Otherwise WT is an arcade shooter for the most part. Bombing is decent. A tank does not survive a 250kg bomb exploding next to it without being destroyed or severely damaged. 

 

I concur with others about the community, grind, free2play aspects etc. But for a quick adrenaline rush WT has it´s place.

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On 6/19/2018 at 6:12 PM, LLv34_Flanker said:

One thing WT does better than BoX or DCS are the dots and LOD transitions on planes.

Wow. How different people can be.

 

For me this big, contrast, black dots are one of the worst things in whole WT. You can see, without any problem, enemies 10-20km from you, down low, with perfect camouflage...

They are like icons. Many tactics are impossible to utilize, sneaking down low is a suicide, hiding in clouds gives you nothing.

 

To be clear, i think basic planes render distance is too small in IL2 and require increasing before release of Bodenplatte with fast, high flying planes, but the way IL2 generates planes is great and innovative. Camouflage matters, it's easy to lose the contact etc.

Edited by sereme1
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S!

 

Sereme1. I do not know your resolution, system setup or graphical settings, but if you want to see anything in IL-2 Great Battles, one has to drop the resolution and do other gimmicks to make planes visible at least somehow. Players with high resolutions 1440p and above suffer from freakishly small dots, planes disappearing from plain sight etc. In WT when using high resolution(2560x1440) I did not have big black dots or planes always visible. Sure the clouds had some issues at times.

The difference is enough to give a decent SA. And really helps if you can ID the plane because of LOD being better. In Great Battles at times you can only see the fuselage of the chasing plane, but wings are not visible or only partially so, depending on background and distance. A plane just does not disappear from plain sight, movement is what betrays it to the eye. And camouflage..in GB planes reflect themselves on surfaces like wings etc, but I do not see the glimmer against forest, at all for example. GB could improve dots and LOD transitions, as you mentioned Bodenplatte with it's fast planes, really needs it.

 

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In fact my resolution is low, 1366x768. It can be a factor. It can be really an issue for people with better monitors. It will require fine tuning with Bodenplatte with higher altitudes (possible vertical separations) and higher speeds (shorter time with target visible).

 

On the other hand WT's big black spots are better and makes you more capable than modern day radars...

Edited by sereme1

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S!

 

 Sereme1 That is why many fly with lower resolution in Great Battles because you just hamper your survival if using 1440p or higher. Planes vanish and dots are like dust specks. In WT when using higher resolution planes do not look like big dots to me. I ran the game in 2560x1440 on my PC and on PS4Pro on 4K. Now I have to use 1080 even my hardware could push higher due how GB does things.

Edited by LLv34_Flanker

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1 hour ago, Legioneod said:

Almost makes me wanna play war thunder

 

 

About time they fixed that terrible cockpit.

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10 minutes ago, angus26 said:

About time they fixed that terrible cockpit.

Yep, I used to play war thunder for the p-47 but I just couldn't fly the thing with the horrible cockpit.

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On June 20, 2018 at 3:46 AM, LLv34_Flanker said:

S!

 

Sereme1. I do not know your resolution, system setup or graphical settings, but if you want to see anything in IL-2 Great Battles, one has to drop the resolution and do other gimmicks to make planes visible at least somehow. Players with high resolutions 1440p and above suffer from freakishly small dots, planes disappearing from plain sight etc. In WT when using high resolution(2560x1440) I did not have big black dots or planes always visible. Sure the clouds had some issues at times.

 

 

I have no such issues at 4K.

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I played WT. It was the thing that made me focus on aviation today. I played the game for around 4 years, dropped too much money on it, but that's alright, I enjoyed it at the time.

I first started to branch out when I saw RoF, but couldn't get into it since all I had was a iMac.

So at the time, it was really my only choice. I bought 1946 on sale on Steam, and downloaded a wrapper from a guy named PaulTheTall. However, that was just to get more steady with my joystick.

 

Unexpectedly, I found BoS. I thought it was amazing, a game focused on the Battle of Stalingrad! One where the plane set was historical! No more of this alternate history, and researching planes BS.

 

So I got a new PC, got some money, and bought IL-2 (they didn't even have the Ju-52 AI at the time). At first I wasn't too sure about it, and played a little of both, I just started to want more of the simulator experience than the arcade one.

 

And here I am 4 years later. I've played a few more games of WT for the Pacific aircraft, but getting Berlin in a TBF very quickly made me give up on it.

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Guest deleted@30725

Watch this

 

 

and this:

 

 

...still playing war thunder?

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6 minutes ago, BFBunny said:

Watch this

 

 

and this:

 

 

...still playing war thunder?

While they are very impressive videos, this isn’t really a topic about converting people, or telling them what game to play, just a topic about why some might still play both, and their reasons for it. NOT to shame others in what they like. 

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for some of us playing wt or bos theres no choice

 

my medium pc broke so i bought a second hand 90 euro pc

 

i can run wt at medium-low at 50 fps but bos and rof is a slide show

 

i think games are done wrong they should be posibly tweak to run in old pcs with very downgraded graphic quality

 

32 million colours? are you kidding me i cant even tell turquoise from light blue or light red from pale purple wth do i care for 32 million

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1 hour ago, =FEW=nightrise said:

Put more hours into warthunder than i care to admit. 

Same goes for me. :dash:

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8 hours ago, =FEW=nightrise said:

Put more hours into warthunder than i care to admit. 

Me also, before i have bought pc able to run IL2 i was forced to stick to WT. Knowing it is inferior to IL2 in every respect. Now i have tried WT, just for curiosity, but there is no comparison.

Edited by sereme1

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I played since original IL2 (and even before that) and after a while when WT came out it  realy looked like the next way to go. I spent lots of time in WT especially on the SB (Simulation) mode.

What I liked about the WT was the fact that each time you were thrown into a battle and had only one life and faced with repair costs afterwards. That makes it very intense and people tended to be more careful and didn't wanted to get into furballs. It made the experience very natural and people were realy trying to survive, diving away from danger and trying to gain advantage.

With so many planes and many factions each fight was a bit different and that created lots of cool and interesting fights that always pushed you outside of your comfort zone.

It is still a fine game. Are its FMs good? Some... kinda. But mostly it is quite simplistic and lacks consistency (eg. Bf109G2 has no forces modeled at high speeds, while G6 has quite realistic stifness on the controls). I would recomend the game to new people as it can realy spark interest in flightgames and planes of different periods. It is definitely not perfect, but in my opinion it is a good starting point for flight sims, especailly on SB.

I definitely do not think that deserves the hate that people in flight sim communities give it.

PS. IMHO tank battles are also very entertaining and nowadays I actually play more tanks than planes in wt.

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I still have a lot of fun playing low to mid tier tanks in WT...I just enjoy hunting other players I guess. We'll see, when Tank Crew comes out I may not have use for it any longer.

 

Never play WT planes anymore at all...too spoiled by BOX.

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