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6./ZG26_Custard

Dice destroys WWII -Battlefield V

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9 minutes ago, Tektolnes said:

A) It's just a game. B) You can play as a man or a woman and beyond that there's no real impact. C) Women like to play games with female protagonists

A) Yep, but why use a historical setting to create "fantasy" 

B) See point A

C) See point A

 

 

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Why use a historical setting to create "fantasy"? Because people (authors, playwrights etc, etc...) have been doing this for hundreds of years, and it works.

 

Next question.

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It's a lot easier to put together a world somewhat loosely based on history than it is to come up with a complete fantasy world. It's a single player game and this really has zero impact on anything other than the amount of interest / enjoyment a section of the demographic can get out of the game. Games like this need to sell in large amounts to justify their existence so hitting a broader market makes sense financially. And it makes a game more appealing to women so that's good for them too. There's really no downside at all except that it seems to annoy certain sections of men who are unhappy that their so-called "historical" game that allows them to kill hundreds of people has a completely optional setting to play as a woman. Not really sure that's a downside though. 

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9 minutes ago, AndyJWest said:

Next question.

I don't remember female Spartan "warriors in the the iliad or the Odyssey, do you Andy? 

15 minutes ago, Tektolnes said:

it makes a game more appealing to women so that's good for them too.

Female empowerment in nothing new, and I can think of many female heroes that would make for interesting games, some have already been made.

 

1920's 😉

 

peR6OC4.jpg

 

 

Probably the best example of a female hero, and she started why back in 1979.

  r0BYkar.jpg

 

1991

 

XZ3I3HU.jpg

 

1993

fZW1nHe.jpg

 

 2011

 

vHRGKKo.jpg

 

2017

 

 

RYait08.jpg

 

The "current year"

 

8fwn3W3.jpg

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Just so I understand your general point. Are you saying that entertainment games that are set in a specific point of history must adhere to historical fact in all significant aspects or does this train of thought only apply to certain aspects such as the role of women in these games? 

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OMG! A woman with dyed hair and glasses! And she isn't smiling!! Obviously plotting to corrupt the poor innocent youth of today by forcing them to play video games where they can kill people without possessing male dangly bits!!!! Someone should call in the thought police!!!!!

 

Or maybe Custard needs to accept that game developers are selling games in the 21st century, and not a fantasy middle-class all-male minority-free 1950's.

 


 

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Wonder woman was horrible xD star wars force awakens and wonder woman, 2 the worst movies I have ever seen in my life. 

 

Anyway I can't agree with you on assassin's creed. It says (at least it used to till AC3, never played anything above ac3) that this is work of fiction and does not represent any believes etc. This statement is what games should have, I know you think that it's obvious but it's not...people think it's real and then you can hear kids using computer games knowledge. Just write that this game is based on some events but it's work of fiction like assassin's creed does.

 

On the other hand... sparta and woman character is just weird, it would be so much better to get an actual Spartan assassins, anyway, assassin's creed sucks after AC2 with expansions. 

 

There is series of comics released in my country, called star wars legends, with older comics before disney. But there is small trilogy made just when disney took over, you can really see these things, reading dozens of comics and then you get these weird feminist fantasy, it's so forced you can't just ignore it and enjoy...

Leia magically turns into xwing ace pilot who saves everyone and kills best imperial aces who spend entire life flying. Then she must control everything, she is an actual squadron leader and is above Skywalker or Wedge... acts bossy and these cringy conversations -_-

Mechanics says to himself "you can wear that fancy pilot suit but you will never be one of us"

Then luke jumps in "hold on! What did you just say?! She is BETTER than everyone, she just shot down 1000 TIE interceptors and killed imperial pilot after crash landing" (actually she wounded him and then executed wounded and defenceless POW).

 

Point is, no wonder people don't want to see women in game, because that crap sjw push in there is just sick, it breaks all the fun when you have to watch this crap, there wouldn't be anything wrong in it, if they would actually have talent and this wasn't so visible or cringy. Insurgency is great example, based on syria, woman based on kurdish fighter. I just can't wait to play campaign and I HOPE that it will be about her story. I don't mind playing as girl, if they make it interesting then I would even prefer it over men. Girl in story can bring bunch of new experience from her point of view about war etc.

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1 hour ago, 6./ZG26_Custard said:
  1 hour ago, Tektolnes said:

A) It's just a game. B) You can play as a man or a woman and beyond that there's no real impact. C) Women like to play games with female protagonists

1 hour ago, 6./ZG26_Custard said:

A) Yep, but why use a historical setting to create "fantasy" 

B) See point A

C) See point A

 

 

 

Don't the Captain america movies take place during the civil war? By your logic, Marvel should have chosen a different setting since Captain america is "fantasy". 

 

Do you see now how your argument falls apart so easily?

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37 minutes ago, AndyJWest said:

Or maybe Custard needs to accept that game developers are selling games in the 21st century, and not a fantasy middle-class all-male minority-free 1950's.

Andy, check your privilege for heavens sake. many of those middle-class all-male minority-free "individuals" you refer to may actually identify as demi pansexual otherkin.

 

Big Red is on the prowl!

 

Dgj28pN.gif 

 

 

25 minutes ago, =SqSq=switch201 said:

Don't the Captain america movies take place during the civil war? By your logic, Marvel should have chosen a different setting since Captain america is "fantasy". 

 

Do you see now how your argument falls apart so easily?

I not sure if you are referring to the historical "American Civil war" or the fictitious Marvel universe civil war because there is no relation between the two.  

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49 minutes ago, InProgress said:

Wonder woman was horrible xD star wars force awakens and wonder woman, 2 the worst movies I have ever seen in my life. 

 

Anyway I can't agree with you on assassin's creed. It says (at least it used to till AC3, never played anything above ac3) that this is work of fiction and does not represent any believes etc. This statement is what games should have, I know you think that it's obvious but it's not...people think it's real and then you can hear kids using computer games knowledge. Just write that this game is based on some events but it's work of fiction like assassin's creed does.

 

On the other hand... sparta and woman character is just weird, it would be so much better to get an actual Spartan assassins, anyway, assassin's creed sucks after AC2 with expansions. 

 

There is series of comics released in my country, called star wars legends, with older comics before disney. But there is small trilogy made just when disney took over, you can really see these things, reading dozens of comics and then you get these weird feminist fantasy, it's so forced you can't just ignore it and enjoy...

Leia magically turns into xwing ace pilot who saves everyone and kills best imperial aces who spend entire life flying. Then she must control everything, she is an actual squadron leader and is above Skywalker or Wedge... acts bossy and these cringy conversations -_-

Mechanics says to himself "you can wear that fancy pilot suit but you will never be one of us"

Then luke jumps in "hold on! What did you just say?! She is BETTER than everyone, she just shot down 1000 TIE interceptors and killed imperial pilot after crash landing" (actually she wounded him and then executed wounded and defenceless POW).

 

 

But it's just a comic!

 

If you type 'femdom' into your computer you'll see there's a huge market for it, and that powerful woman sell!

 

I think you're missing that Disney is a huge corporation that invests millions upon millions in market research. If there was no market for such characters they wouldnt exist. 

 

But lets just say there is a SJW agenda (although the true meaning of SJW seems to be mutating at an alarming rate) can you please tell me what you believe it to be? What are they hoping to achieve and who are they?

 

 

Edited by Wolf8312

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2 minutes ago, 6./ZG26_Custard said:

I not sure if you are referring to the historical "American Civil war" or the fictitious Marvel universe civil war because there is no relation between the two.  

 

Just as Battlefield is depicting the fictitious Dice WWII where people have bionic arms and what not: there is no relation between the two.....

 

For the Record, I have not seen Captain america, I just know it takes place during the civil war (at least one of the movies)

 

My rebuttal of your argument basically boils down to what  Tektolnes said.

1 hour ago, Tektolnes said:

Just so I understand your general point. Are you saying that entertainment games that are set in a specific point of history must adhere to historical fact in all significant aspects or does this train of thought only apply to certain aspects such as the role of women in these games? 

 

I enjoy some debate and what not but the point brought up by Tekolnes just pokes such a big hole in your argument.....

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Superman had Lex Luthor. Batman had the Joker. Captain Ahab had a Great White Whale. Custard has SJWs. You can't be a Hero without an Antihero, where's the fun in that...

 

Edited by AndyJWest
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Not just a comic, it's a story I bought, continuation of already created universe. And I got bunch of random bullshit where princess Leia turned into commander and ace of xwing squadron. This happens before episode 5 and after 4. So she as a strong and independent woman turned into the best pilot in the universe in matter of months? Maybe you and many other people don't give a damn about story and all that matters is special effects and visuals. But if I get story full of plot holes that destroys all the logic then I don't enjoy it, all the had to do was make NEW character and cut that cringy crap "SHE IS BETTER THAN EVERYONE ELSE!".

 

What they want to achieve? Isn't that obvious? The same things as people who printed war posters. It won't affect adults, but when kids see this all the time, this will be the way they get rised. Just like kids were most fanatical nazi, because they were rise like this. Now they want to rise liberals. 

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1 minute ago, InProgress said:

So she as a strong and independent woman turned into the best pilot in the universe in matter of months

 

But Anikin (a 10 year old boy) pod racing/ flying the naboo starship is ok?

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5 minutes ago, =SqSq=switch201 said:

For the Record, I have not seen Captain america, I just know it takes place during the civil war (at least one of the movies)

There never has been a captain America movie during the civil war. You are probably confusing it with the movie “Captain America: Civil War” in which it does not take place during the civil war. 

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3 minutes ago, angus26 said:

There never has been a captain America movie during the civil war. You are probably confusing it with the movie “Captain America: Civil War” in which it does not take place during the civil war. 

 

Ahh I see lol.

 

Well I think that you all still get my point to some extent: why is historical fantasy a problem in this context but not in the millions of others. 

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2 minutes ago, AndyJWest said:

Oh look, Godwin's law has arrived. Time to find another set of SJWindmills to tilt at, Custard...

 

 

Oh boy. 

AA547118-276D-4205-A826-875879F2D743.gif.99dd99f1a652e96b09182bbeb811316d.gif

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4 minutes ago, AndyJWest said:

Oh look, Godwin's law has arrived

Sorry it hasn't Andy because we are not talking about Austrian painters. 😉 

 

 

Edited by 6./ZG26_Custard
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1 minute ago, 6./ZG26_Custard said:

Sorry it' hasn't Andy because we are not talking about Austrian painters. 😉 

Gday mate! :lol:

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Just now, 6./ZG26_Custard said:

Sorry it' hasn't Andy because we are not talking about Austrian painters. 😉 

 

You might not be, but inProgress was. Though given his username ('Progress'!) I suspect he may be a SJW double agent (or possibly an assassin). Watch your back. ;)

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13 minutes ago, =SqSq=switch201 said:

 

But Anikin (a 10 year old boy) pod racing/ flying the naboo starship is ok?

I don't know... maybe because he was the chosen one? Stronger in the force than yoda? And maybe because he TRAINED for years and never actually won any race until that one in the movie? Again, makes sense, it's created for this character, not someone stealing already created character of Leia and turns her into mary sue.

Edited by InProgress

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Just now, InProgress said:

I don't know... maybe because he was the chosen one? Stronger in the force than yoda? And maybe because he TRAINED for years and never actually won any race until that one in the movie? Again, makes sense, is expend and created for this character, not someone stealing already created character of Leia and turns her into mary sue.

 

You sure you aren't confusing him with Buffy the Vampire Slayer?

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Also Leia was the daughter of the chosen one so that has to count for something right? She is also part of the rebellion before episode 4 starts, so its not crazy to think that she gets some training along the way at leading the space force, especially since she has been in a position of authority her whole life too.

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2 minutes ago, =SqSq=switch201 said:

Also Leia was the daughter of the chosen one so that has to count for something right? She is also part of the rebellion before episode 4 starts, so its not crazy to think that she gets some training along the way at leading the space force, especially since she has been in a position of authority her whole life too.

 

She was but she wasn't that strong, being kid of jedi does not make you strong in the force automatically. She could feel luke in the force (episode 5 when he was about to fall and die) so she knew it somehow and saved him. But force does not make you automatically a damn ninja ace. Regular humans could kill jedi, Jango Fett for example. So even with force, she wouldn't stand a chance against imperial pilot with 20 years of experience. She had different skills. I have hundreds of star wars books, I don't recall any that shows her as pilot. Learning to fly won't be hard and that's possible for her to fly, but making her automatically a pro? Someone who commands entire units? It's like having a teacher as minister of defence. It's a job for general, veteran, not for a politician.

2 minutes ago, 19//Rekt said:

Fortunately, unlike brainwashing people to believe that the Jews are the cause of all their problems

You mad bro? xD where did you take these Jews from? I am talking about plot holes, pushing agenda into story that makes it completely retarded and you randomly jump out with jews and them being cause of all the problems? Lol this is typical sjw crap, what are you even talking about. I never said a word about jews, and for your information, I totally support what Israel does there.

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you dont understand the ways of the force

 

im the only human throught history who has a 100% rate of cutting flying flies in half with a blade

 

i threw a random slash and made the fly fly to the balde in my only try ever

 

leia uses the force to numbe their more skilled fighters

 

as a matter of fact the force uses the force of the opponenet agaisnt him as in judo

 

females are better than males at this becasue of their inherent weakness, like flying a 190

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Or like a farm boy who grew up flying speeders sometimes being able to fly like a pro in a x-wing on his very first attempt. That's like me hopping into an F-16 and saying I got this guys I drove a fast car around the desert sometimes. 

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Is it really so hard to understand? I don't give a flying F about who will be playing a certain role, woman, black, kid, alien. All that matters is to make it good. And what sjw do not good, it's simply retarded. 

Example, mace Windu, great character, pro actor, he has background and all he does fits his character, makes it feels real. Then we have Fin from SW7, witness horror of war, his friend dies, people get executed, what he does? 5min later he goes rampage and massacre non combat hangar engineers and some exfriend stormtroopers while laughing like some maniac...

 

Wow, great story, please give that director Oscar for this perfection. 3 years old can make better story than this randomly mixed trash.

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Well I think it all depends what message it will send. Everything is marketing now. If The massage is, you girls are as bad as the guys, is the message good. Is the message that you must always compete with eachother and trye to maximise your benefit like every other is doing, then we will have more competition and more losers. There are more inequality between the individuals than in the genders in the western World.

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I can agree with you that the writing in the new starwars movies is bad, I just disagree that its baddness is a result of SJWs or what have you. That's not what made it bad. And nothing in your previous comment had anything to do with Race or gender or SJW sutff. you simply pointed out bad writing,

 

I don't see what your criticism of the movie has to do with SJWs agenda, but it seemed as if you were trying to make the argument that episode 7 was bad because Disney forced a black character into a role that should be played by a non minority????

 

Edited by =SqSq=switch201
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7 minutes ago, Tektolnes said:

Or like a farm boy who grew up flying speeders sometimes being able to fly like a pro in a x-wing on his very first attempt. That's like me hopping into an F-16 and saying I got this guys I drove a fast car around the desert sometimes. 

Yes, Flying airspeeder. The T-16 skyhopper. You compare ability to driving a car to flying F16 jet. Can't make some better arguments? It's more like flying bf109 and jumping to me262. 

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The T-16 was just a car that floated on air or am I missing something and it was really a state of the art space fighter? 

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27 minutes ago, InProgress said:

 

She was but she wasn't that strong, being kid of jedi does not make you strong in the force automatically. She could feel luke in the force (episode 5 when he was about to fall and die) so she knew it somehow and saved him. But force does not make you automatically a damn ninja ace. Regular humans could kill jedi, Jango Fett for example. So even with force, she wouldn't stand a chance against imperial pilot with 20 years of experience. She had different skills. I have hundreds of star wars books, I don't recall any that shows her as pilot. Learning to fly won't be hard and that's possible for her to fly, but making her automatically a pro? Someone who commands entire units? It's like having a teacher as minister of defence. It's a job for general, veteran, not for a politician.

You mad bro? xD where did you take these Jews from? I am talking about plot holes, pushing agenda into story that makes it completely retarded and you randomly jump out with jews and them being cause of all the problems? Lol this is typical sjw crap, what are you even talking about. I never said a word about jews, and for your information, I totally support what Israel does there.

 

I think it's because this whole thing, while I am quite sure there is no anti semitism involved here still has strong overtones of the exact same phenomenon. You know the shadowy global conspiracy that is intended to manipulate us all into getting along with each other, in order to make us more effeminate/weaker and to get us mixing with other races therefore watering down and eventually destroying the white race? And who controls the media they say etc, the people who are pushing this very agenda...

 

And believe me although you dont mean it like that I can assure you many extreme right wing people online and off are using these exact same arguments (the anti PC/SJW stuff) and they do beleive in it.   

And you didnt answer the question before, what do you think the SJW agenda is and is aiming to acheive and who is behind it?

But you have also gone from talking about wishing to maintain historical accuracy which is understandable to not wanting strong female characters even in your comic books, so I really think you do need to examine what is actually making you upset here. Cause I can at least understand the former but really dont understand the later.

 

Edited by Wolf8312

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4 minutes ago, Tektolnes said:

The T-16 was just a car that floated on air or am I missing something and it was really a state of the art space fighter? 

Yes, you are missing something, it could fly up to 300m high and go 1200km/h. It wasn't floating landspeeder. It could fly more or less. 

3 minutes ago, Wolf8312 said:

But you have also gone from talking about wishing to maintain historical accuracy which is understandable to not wanting strong female characters even in your comic books, so I really think you do need to examine what is actually making you upset here. Cause I can at least understand the former but really dont understand the later.

If you would read what I said before about insurgency, I am hoping for single player campaign with Kurdish female as main character. There is difference between strong girl as character and forced crap that tries so hard for a girl to be best than all the males around it's fails miserably. Leia was already a badass girl, could get blaster and fight, was great politician, even Vader did not break her. And yet, they authors try so hard to make her even more! It's like working out, you get cool body and muscles, you look great, but you just can't stop and from regular person with nice body you turn into some mutant. This is what they did with Leia, she was already great and now she is just some weird creation injected with bunch of crap that breaks all the rules and logic, because it does not matter, what matters is to make her a goddess, all the did was turn her into hulk.

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Just now, 19//Rekt said:

 

You made a comparison to Nazi indoctrination here:

 

 

I was making the case that your point was logically fallacious because bringing up kids to hate Jews the way the Nazis did (for example) has nothing in common with empowering girls in a Star Wars cartoon.

 

Re-read carefully what I have written and you will understand that I am not mad and was not accusing you of hating Jews etc.

It was example... kids that were thought about certain things from the beginning will be blindly following it, does not matter what it is, nazism, communism etc. Again, there is difference between normal use of characters and to make only women so badass and great and show them as better than everyone else. It sucks, but I don't care about it really, unless they put it into something I like, and here was star wars. Making princess Leia to be a complete dick, executing wounded pow? Is this as low as they can go? Making her basically superior to everyone else?

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7 minutes ago, InProgress said:

Yes, you are missing something, it could fly up to 300m high and go 1200km/h. It wasn't floating landspeeder. It could fly more or less. 

If you would read what I said before about insurgency, I am hoping for single player campaign with Kurdish female as main character. There is difference between strong girl as character and forced crap that tries so hard for a girl to be best than all the males around it's fails miserably. Leia was already a badass girl, could get blaster and fight, was great politician, even Vader did not break her. And yet, they authors try so hard to make her even more! It's like working out, you get cool body and muscles, you look great, but you just can't stop and from regular person with nice body you turn into some mutant. This is what they did with Leia, she was already great and now she is just some weird creation injected with bunch of crap that breaks all the rules and logic, because it does not matter, what matters is to make her a goddess, all the did was turn her into hulk.

 

Well okay then maybe my lack of understanding of the comic book culture. Dont get me wrong I know your a good guy inprogress and there is part of me that understands what people mean when inclusivity is forced into culture and entertainment in a way that is very obviously jarring and patronizing.

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13 minutes ago, Wolf8312 said:

 

Well okay then maybe my lack of understanding of the comic book culture. Dont get me wrong I know your a good guy inprogress and there is part of me that understands what people mean when inclusivity is forced into culture and entertainment in a way that is very obviously jarring and patronizing.

I think if you like something, especially as a big fan of it. And then someone comes and starts spamming their political views into this universe, you will get angry about it. If it was only good... but it's not, new sw movies they make are simply horrible, from acting, atmosphere, story and more. I even got books, so maybe these plot holes would be filled and explained... but noo, it was made like this, there is no explanation to this abomination.

 

Well there is still Warhammer ;)

purge-the-unclean_o_6726305.jpg

Edited by InProgress

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6 hours ago, 6./ZG26_Custard said:

Andy, check your privilege for heavens sake. many of those middle-class all-male minority-free "individuals" you refer to may actually identify as demi pansexual otherkin.

 

With all due respect, those statements don't really serve your argument. Excessive, mocking cynicism is of absolutely no use in any discussion and simply serves to drown out opposing views without listening to them. 

 

I've just spent the last three years in Brighton* (possibly your idea of a hell-hole when it comes to "SJW's" and alternative culture), I can quite confidently state that this doomsday portrayal of masculinity being eroded is vastly exaggerated. Your views on the proliferation of SJW's is just as exaggerated as the views of SJW's are regarding social justice. Social justice warriors are a tiny, minute minority. They have a loud voice, certainly, but drowning out their shouts with your own serves no real purpose. Argument, and reasoned discussion are the way forward. Not least because at least you'll get to know who you're arguing with. 

It's nothing personal, but I find it so trying when I'm confronted by umbrella terms used to categorise and demonise entire sub-sections of a population. "White privilege" and "the patriarchy" are just as ridiculously generalised, exploded and vague terms as "SJW" and "snowflake". The only purpose these terms serve is to attribute broadly negative traits to large numbers of people, in support of an agenda. This agenda may be "SJW" or "anti-SJW". 
 

I didn't like the Battlefield trailer personally, I thought it was poorly directed, chaotic, unrepresentative and over-the-top. The issue I have with it, and a broader trend within gaming, is that it tries to appeal to too many. The problem is not social justice, or even historical revisionism; the problem is that DICE are willing to sacrifice so many things, large and small, simply to get a larger share of the market -- if that dilutes what the franchise is about, so be it. That, in my view, is the real shame.

 

 

 

*

For those not familiar with the UK, Brighton is a city known for its LGBT community and very open, liberal views on alternative culture. 
 

Edited by Leaf
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well sometimes i put myself eye shadow and wear the boots outside the trousers and thank god those silver leggins didnt arrive

 

but i do all that because nobody does it, so machoman caveman is saved, he still rules and gets all the chicks

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1 hour ago, Leaf said:

 

With all due respect, those statements don't really serve your argument. Excessive, mocking cynicism is of absolutely no use in any discussion and simply serves to drown out opposing views without listening to them. 

 

I've just spent the last three years in Brighton* (possibly your idea of a hell-hole when it comes to "SJW's" and alternative culture), I can quite confidently state that this doomsday portrayal of masculinity being eroded is vastly exaggerated. Your views on the proliferation of SJW's is just as exaggerated as the views of SJW's are regarding social justice. Social justice warriors are a tiny, minute minority. They have a loud voice, certainly, but drowning out their shouts with your own serves no real purpose. Argument, and reasoned discussion are the way forward. Not least because at least you'll get to know who you're arguing with. 

It's nothing personal, but I find it so trying when I'm confronted by umbrella terms used to categorise and demonise entire sub-sections of a population. "White privilege" and "the patriarchy" are just as ridiculously generalised, exploded and vague terms as "SJW" and "snowflake". The only purpose these terms serve is to attribute broadly negative traits to large numbers of people, in support of an agenda. This agenda may be "SJW" or "anti-SJW". 
 

I didn't like the Battlefield trailer personally, I thought it was poorly directed, chaotic, unrepresentative and over-the-top. The issue I have with it, and a broader trend within gaming, is that it tries to appeal to too many. The problem is not social justice, or even historical revisionism; the problem is that DICE are willing to sacrifice so many things, large and small, simply to get a larger share of the market -- if that dilutes what the franchise is about, so be it. That, in my view, is the real shame.

 

 

 

*

For those not familiar with the UK, Brighton is a city known for its LGBT community and very open, liberal views on alternative culture. 
 

Well said! :salute:

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