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BOBP: Where are the bombers?

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9 hours ago, FFS_Cybermat47 said:

 

True, though I wouldn’t want to buy a Lancaster just to be target practice for an Me-262.

But we will have Mustangs also...

😎

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33 minutes ago, AKA_Recon said:

  I'd be happy with a A20/B25.

 

Isn't that what we're getting?:)

Edited by DD_Arthur

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Don't know the possibility/probability of B-26 appearing in the game at some point, but I'd sure want to see that bomber in... also Hawker Typhoon, that plane seems to be involved quite a bit in BoBP operation 😎.

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I <3 the Typhoon, it is a beast.

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5 hours ago, AKA_Recon said:

Thanks ShamrockOneFive

 

Imagine selling IL2 game without an Il2 or Pe2, seems odd...

 

Selling IL2 without an IL2 would be odd indeed.

What are you getting at?

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5 hours ago, dkoor said:

... also Hawker Typhoon, that plane seems to be involved quite a bit in BoBP operation 😎.

 

That´s correct. It was the backbone of 2nd TAF planes on the continent until VE Day. We will see it in BoBP sooner or later, I´m sure.

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German Bombers at daqytime were dead meat in the west 1944/45...............

anyway, i would like to see a Ju88S, it is far less armed than a Ju188, but much faster - will never happen, i know.

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On 6/3/2018 at 6:13 PM, DD_Arthur said:

 

Isn't that what we're getting?:)

 

We are ?

On 6/3/2018 at 11:16 PM, Gambit21 said:

 

Selling IL2 without an IL2 would be odd indeed.

What are you getting at?

 

It's like an eastern front game with nothing but flyable fighters.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Bodenplatte

 

B17's and B24's - would love to fly a B17.  Unfortunately makers of the game are more interested in just dogfighters.   I wish for a game where we can have dedicated bomber pilots like back in IL2 1946

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10 minutes ago, AKA_Recon said:

 

We are ?

 

It's like an eastern front game with nothing but flyable fighters.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Bodenplatte

 

B17's and B24's - would love to fly a B17.  Unfortunately makers of the game are more interested in just dogfighters.   I wish for a game where we can have dedicated bomber pilots like back in IL2 1946

 

I think that's a bit unfair Recon. Jason and team are doing about as much as they can on a limited budget and with a small team. Doing a heavy bomber like a B-17 fully flyable would likely take most of a typical development cycle just for the one aircraft. Doing it in AI form would still take months of effort. That means delaying other materials and that means not delivering their product within a reasonable amount of time which ultimately is going to be very bad for business.

 

Furthermore, the Western Front is not all about the big heavy bombers. The Bodenplatte operation and most of the war in the map that we're getting was a tactical affair similar to the Eastern Front.

 

I highly recommend Rick Atkinson's The Guns at Last Light for a great overview on everything happening during the Normandy invasion and post invasion (and yes there are several mentions of B-17s involved in tactical support missions - most of them disasters too!). https://www.amazon.com/Guns-Last-Light-1944-1945-Liberation/dp/1250037816

 

 

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1 hour ago, AKA_Recon said:

We are ?

 

Yes we are.  We are getting what you asked for here

On 6/3/2018 at 10:39 PM, AKA_Recon said:

  I'd be happy with a A20/B25.

 

We've got an A20 with Kuban and we'll be getting a B25 with Bodenplatte.:)

  I can't quite see where B17's fit into the low level,  tactical airwar of the western front at the turn of '44/45.   However,  I can think of a whole host of other planes for the Devs to make for this scenerio before perhaps considering strategic bombers. 

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1 hour ago, DD_Arthur said:

I can't quite see where B17's fit into the low level,  tactical airwar of the western front at the turn of '44/45.   However,  I can think of a whole host of other planes for the Devs to make for this scenerio before perhaps considering strategic bombers. 

 

Yep, so much potential left for variety. The whole timeframe 1941 to 1943 and also 1943 to 1945 could make good games without high altitude strategic bombing and even sell well.

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On 6/9/2018 at 7:45 PM, DD_Arthur said:

 

Yes we are.  We are getting what you asked for here

 

We've got an A20 with Kuban and we'll be getting a B25 with Bodenplatte.:)

  I can't quite see where B17's fit into the low level,  tactical airwar of the western front at the turn of '44/45.   However,  I can think of a whole host of other planes for the Devs to make for this scenerio before perhaps considering strategic bombers. 

 

Thanks @DD_Arthur, I don't think I realized this when I made my post - the A20 is nice and the B25 will be fun as well.

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47 minutes ago, AKA_Recon said:

B25 will be fun as well.

As AI aircraft, not flyable for players, unfortunately. Unless they find the time to make it playable later, as collector plane.

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If you really want something big too shot down 🤣

81F7D5BB-C406-4961-B912-B7729A931DBB.jpeg

You really would need an Ironman too fly this big bird for sure👷‍♂️!!

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9 hours ago, Yogiflight said:

As AI aircraft, not flyable for players, unfortunately. Unless they find the time to make it playable later, as collector plane.

 

I'm convinced they will eventually. Not right away but eventually.

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I guess the only way we would see some four engined bombers is if they were AI with simplified flight models to reduce strain on cpu and allow them to stay in formation.  Reduce the number of polys, dumb down the gunners a bit and do less detailed crew figures etc.  

 

 

 

 

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12 minutes ago, Feathered_IV said:

I guess the only way we would see some four engined bombers is if they were AI with simplified flight models to reduce strain on cpu and allow them to stay in formation.  Reduce the number of polys, dumb down the gunners a bit and do less detailed crew figures etc.  

 

 

 

 

And I don't think the devs are willing/able to do simplified flight models.

 

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I agree. It’s not going to happen.  

I think we’re in a cycle now of ten fighters and a map earning just enough money to manage ten more fighters and another map later.  

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For those who like to do research via reading, the book "To Win the Winter Sky" is an excellent account of the very area this sim expansion will cover.  It's still readily available for online purchase.

 

 

Winter Ky.jpg

Edited by II./JG77_Hund
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On ‎6‎/‎3‎/‎2018 at 2:20 PM, sevenless said:

 

Yeah sure, however it most likely is more easy to build an 88G from an existing 88A then say build a B26 Marauder or A26 Intruder from scratch. We will learn sooner or later which 2mot planes we´ll see in BOBP. Still at least a year to go.

True dat. I'd love to see either a late war Ju 88 bomber or a Zerstörer Version of it. The Nachtjäger is probably very heavy (if possible at all) on the coding and at this time, there is little of a nightfighting-shell to play with.

The B-26 and A-26 (Invader - the Intruder was a Navy jet attack aircraft; similarily awesome, but...well, different) are massively underrepresented though. Although the Invader came very late, itt had two different noses to chose from, lots of interesting loadout options and it very nicely bridges the gap for any hypothetical post WW2 action*.

 

The A-20G would also be a nice Investment - particularily if the Pacific (New Guinea, Philippines, etc.) will be seen as a map.

Can you say "Rampage of the Roaring Twenties"? 😎

 

*Korea, Algeria/ Morocco, Incochina (Armée de l'Air) and SEA (CIA and USAF), Bay of Pigs Invasion (yeah) and possible some other theatres of operations that don't come to my mind Right now - it was used a a recce airframe during the early Cold War stages, too.

 

Quote

For those who like to do research via reading, the book "To Win the Winter Sky" is an excellent account of the very area this sim expansion will cover.  It's still readily available for online purchase.

 

Winter Ky.jpg

 

Definately a very great and unbiased book. I have my copy sitting just an arms length away right now 😃

 

 

 

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Honestly I rather see more twin engine aircraft like the Mosquito, ME-210, or P61

 

 

https://ww2-weapons.com/dh-mosquito-fb/

Flying+Heritage+Skyfair+2017+217.JPG

510947263923294.jpg

 

https://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft/detail.asp?aircraft_id=1384

 

-->another me210 picture <--

acf145d794811391ca7360e12dc92d57.jpg

0157422.jpg

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northrop_P-61_Black_Widow

 

61.jpg

aKlw0ZE.jpg

Edited by Geronimo553
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29 minutes ago, SJ_Stephan* said:

I hope they will add the B-17

They will not. Said 100 times. Too big, too mamy crew members, too many engines. It fly super high in huge numbers (like hundreds) game would not even handle few of them. And it makes no sense to do strategic bombings with 6x b17 :P

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7 minutes ago, InProgress said:

They will not. Said 100 times. Too big, too mamy crew members, too many engines. It fly super high in huge numbers (like hundreds) game would not even handle few of them. And it makes no sense to do strategic bombings with 6x b17 :P

 

Theoretically - this isn't a barrier to the Lancaster though...

 

Typically they approached in groups of four or less in order to reduce collision chances... (even during thousand bomber raids). They also had only three gun positions (usually).

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22 hours ago, Geronimo553 said:

 

aKlw0ZE.jpg

 

They were even at Florennes (Belgium) with 422 NFS at the relevant time frame. That would be a VERY nice addition.

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57 minutes ago, Avimimus said:

 

Theoretically - this isn't a barrier to the Lancaster though...

 

Typically they approached in groups of four or less in order to reduce collision chances... (even during thousand bomber raids). They also had only three gun positions (usually).

 

RAF BC a/c flew as individual a/c. They could arrive over the target at the same time tho.

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If we going night bomber with lancasters i am going need one of these 

 

p1.jpg

 

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On 6/3/2018 at 2:39 PM, AKA_Recon said:

Thanks ShamrockOneFive

 

Imagine selling IL2 game without an Il2 or Pe2, seems odd...  I'd be happy with a A20/B25.

 

Yes, an A-20G/K, make the B-25 flyable so it's ready for Pacific when it comes along.  I agree the Mosquito FB would be a very nice addition... and the Ju-88 Mistal with either Fw-190 or Bf-109 piggy back plane. 

 

A-20-4.jpg

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5 hours ago, sevenless said:

 

They were even at Florennes (Belgium) with 422 NFS at the relevant time frame. That would be a VERY nice addition.

 

Exactly!! 

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20 hours ago, MiloMorai said:

 

RAF BC a/c flew as individual a/c. They could arrive over the target at the same time tho.

 

True... but it is less likely - and larger spread out bomber formations could be modeled by spawning and despawning aircraft over time. So it is pretty feasible.

 

 

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22 hours ago, Avimimus said:

 

Theoretically - this isn't a barrier to the Lancaster though...

 

Typically they approached in groups of four or less in order to reduce collision chances... (even during thousand bomber raids). They also had only three gun positions (usually).

The Lancaster really only bombed at night for like, 99% of its service time. Daylight bombing was only really a thing very late war where the Luftwaffe just couldn't mount a defense anymore.

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On ‎7‎/‎27‎/‎2018 at 10:06 AM, EAF19_Marsh said:

Mossie FTW...

2nd that.

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On ‎5‎/‎21‎/‎2018 at 11:37 PM, 77.CountZero said:

 

Old sims had one AI brain for gunners, and here they have each gunner his own AI brain using aditional resorces, answer in QA from last year

Also probably that AI airplanes use complex FM and CEM like humans airplanes do in this game have aditional impact, i dont think old sims had that aproch with AI

 

On ‎5‎/‎22‎/‎2018 at 9:27 AM, ShamrockOneFive said:

Quite right. The AI is more sophisticated even when it sometimes doesn't always feel like it.

 

So... the bomber AI is now so advanced that we can't actually use it.  This truly is the golden age. 

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I personally think that Bodenplatte needs bombers to shoot at.

Strategic bombers like B-17 or Avro Lancaster.

To be used by AI pilots.

 

Its still nice that they make B-25 to the game.

 

Most important thing i feel like game is missing is competitive AI.

 

 

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Lancasters have nothing to do with the map being rendered.

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Ill happily take AI 4 engined bomber with simplified AI gunners(one brain for all of them) and with spawn/unspawn in career at the end of the map. In career they will represent final box of bomber stream you are able to catch. Maybe 10-15 bombers with 8 fighters as cover against 4 german planes.

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