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[ASOR]Pharoah

BOBP: Where are the bombers?

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"Sigh" .... the truth to the matter is that nowadays something like "the mighty eighth",  with current graphics and realism standards,  would probably be a commercial flop. It would have many enthusiasts but certainly not enough to be worth the investment. And things have gotten so complex that any individual modder or team of supporters would have almost no chance of developing their own individual flyables with standards comparing to what 1C is doing today. After a few years away from il2 1946 I tried it again, with VP modpack. Though I praise the efforts of who did those extra modded planes,  it is clear that the gaming industry advanced entire light-years after that and user modding simply cannot keep pacr anymore. Team Daidalo's B24 is wonderful,  but still,  falls short from what would be deemed acceptable im todays standards - and it took them years to do it!

 

 

 

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Pretty impossible to include more multi engine bombers as flyable planes. Only simple flight model bots i think.

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Well once everything is made , interest for buying bombers might change their mind, after all this is a pack based  on economical reasons and time to develop. Maybe there would be time for a couple of bombers once this is completed. I simply believe they do not mention it because we opt everything they say as a promise. The choice of B 25 AI instead of B 26 must be a future Pacific sort of thing

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Yep - best bang for the buck with the B-25.

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Still, it may be important to keep voicing desires like those (heavies etc.). Who knows,  the devs may someday come to the conclusion that there is a market for it.

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8 minutes ago, danielprates said:

Still, it may be important to keep voicing desires like those (heavies etc.). Who knows,  the devs may someday come to the conclusion that there is a market for it.

 

Problem is this game engine isn´t capable to cope with it. As of now you need to switch to IL 1946 for having bomber interceptions. They would need to revamp the old engine or to develop an entirely new engine which is capable to handle this stuff. 

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As I mentioned, you should not expect B-17 / B-24 as a plane for players. Due to the small size of the map. Heavy bombers never operated from airports near the frontline as we now have, even if we do not have such an airport from which the B-17 / B-24 could safely take off and land. Career pilot of a heavy bomber would not be the slightest reflection of real raids in which hundreds or even thousands of bombers took part, not the maximum of 10 available in the current tactical bomber squadrons.
I am expecting and waiting for B-25 Mitchell, even in the form of DLC, and this bomber will give us a substitute for the old, "mighty eight", especially in career mode.

Edited by GTursonA523
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5 hours ago, sevenless said:

Problem is this game engine isn´t capable to cope with it. As of now you need to switch to IL 1946 for having bomber interceptions. They would need to revamp the old engine or to develop an entirely new engine which is capable to handle this stuff.

How do you know?

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Where did they state that you cannot intercept bombers? Or that the engine will always be incapable allowing that?

Edited by JtD

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On ‎5‎/‎18‎/‎2018 at 11:08 PM, HBPencil said:

As for the Dora, I don't know the figures but I'm reminded of a well known 1v1 dogfight between a Tempest V and a Dora that happened at ground level. The Tempest pilot was 'Rosie' Mackie, a very experienced ace and he felt that fight was the hardest one he ever experienced, so I suspect that the Dora will be dangerous at any altitude so long as the pilot is competent enough.

 

That would be a Dora 13 not a Dora 9. Not exactly ground level as the mock combat had a restriction of 3000ft and the Dora carried no ammo.

 

There was 44 Ju88G-1/G-6s that participated in Bodenplatte.

 

 

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1 hour ago, ChiefWH said:

- gunner positions impact on performance, and therefore formation size

 

It’s curious how AI gunners can be such a drain on performance when  for all practical purposes they are no smarter or convincing than those seem in sims of fifteen or even twenty years ago. 

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31 minutes ago, Feathered_IV said:

 

It’s curious how AI gunners can be such a drain on performance when  for all practical purposes they are no smarter or convincing than those seem in sims of fifteen or even twenty years ago. 

 

Old sims had one AI brain for gunners, and here they have each gunner his own AI brain using aditional resorces, answer in QA from last year

 

 

 

Also probably that AI airplanes use complex FM and CEM like humans airplanes do in this game have aditional impact, i dont think old sims had that aproch with AI

Edited by 77.CountZero

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47 minutes ago, MiloMorai said:

 

That would be a Dora 13 not a Dora 9. Not exactly ground level as the mock combat had a restriction of 3000ft and the Dora carried no ammo.

 

 

I was referring to the fight on March 7 1945 between Squadron Leader Mackie in his Tempest and Uffz Salewski flying Fw190D-9, Black 4, W.Nr400247 which ended when Salewski was distracted by some Spits which showed up so Mackie got a clean shot.

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9 hours ago, 77.CountZero said:

 

Old sims had one AI brain for gunners, and here they have each gunner his own AI brain using aditional resorces, answer in QA from last year

 

 

 

Also probably that AI airplanes use complex FM and CEM like humans airplanes do in this game have aditional impact, i dont think old sims had that aproch with AI

 

Quite right. The AI is more sophisticated even when it sometimes doesn't always feel like it.

 

I have to say that I got into a dogfight with a 109 flying a Yak-7B the other day and it was one of the best AI fights I've had in a long time. Was probably set to Ace and the CPU handled itself really well! IL-2's AI play by the same physics rules that the human player does which is a step above pretty much all other combat sims. This does eat the CPU resources a bit (something the devs have tweaked and improved over time) but we also end up getting some very realistic flying out of them.

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I like many others here would love to have a Mosquito or even a Beaufighter

 

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The Beaufighter would probably be a more appropriate addition to the Pacific or Med theatres; by Bodenplatte they were largely replaced by the Mossie in Europe

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While the fighters for this looks great, I was deeply disappointed to find out no US bombers would be a part of this package.

 

Any chance we can get a bomber package at some point ?

Edited by AKA_Recon
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AI B-25, to be made flyable later if all goes well.

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So, we had this exact conversation on the forum just a couple of weeks ago, with predictable but inconclusive results.

 

 

In response, I wrote a whole thing about it and how we might yet get some bombers into the series.

 

https://stormbirds.blog/2018/05/20/where-are-the-bombers-in-il-2-battle-of-bodenplatte-and-how-we-might-add-some/

 

Also, BlackSix talked about adding the A-20B (to be flown by AI) into the Career.

 

 

What we won't see is a heavy bomber of any kind (developer resources, AI resources, realism issues, etc. - the pile is high here) but with the B-25 AI coming it opens up a good chance of seeing that being made flyable sometime. I also think the A-20B is ripe to develop into the A-20G/J as a standalone Collector Plane. So too do I think that the Arado Ar234 would be a good candidate for bomber that fits the time, the theme, and is just a single station so not needing multiple gunner stations.

 

Lots of info at the topics I copied :)

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The hell with more us Bombers...give me the Betty.

Time for some PTO goodness after this.

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1 hour ago, ShamrockOneFive said:

What we won't see is a heavy bomber of any kind (developer resources, AI resources, realism issues, etc. - the pile is high here

 

So too do I think that the Arado Ar234 would be a good candidate

 

Really?

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1 minute ago, Y-29.Silky said:

 

Really?

 

Really to what part?

 

The heavy bomber thing? Honestly, we're you expecting them?

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After the numerous times the Devs have stated they wont make 4 engine bombers I'm surprised we still see some hanging onto the idea it could happen.

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I just missed the posts on the bombers and I am somewhat disappointed. On the European theater no flyable or at minimum AI heavy bombers like at least the Lancaster and B17 seems strange. Make it collector for everybody and with a high premium price like 30$ or 50$ per plane but they should be there.

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I think people would buy them at 1000USD but the fact remains that the game engine cannot handle them so no... it won't happen in the near future.

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1 hour ago, IckyATLAS said:

I just missed the posts on the bombers and I am somewhat disappointed. On the European theater no flyable or at minimum AI heavy bombers like at least the Lancaster and B17 seems strange. Make it collector for everybody and with a high premium price like 30$ or 50$ per plane but they should be there.

 

Strategic bombers would be useless in the tactical situations represented in the game.

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23 minutes ago, FFS_Cybermat47 said:

 

 

Strategic bombers would be useless in the tactical situations represented in the game.

They were the primary targets for Me 262`s, though....at least after they converted from ground pounding to fighter role...

Edited by blackram

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9 hours ago, Gambit21 said:

The hell with more us Bombers...give me the Betty.

Time for some PTO goodness after this.

 

Not really counting on long strings of missions in "ironman" mode, but hey, can't resist her appeal!

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1 hour ago, blackram said:

They were the primary targets for Me 262`s, though....at least after they converted from ground pounding to fighter role...

 

True, though I wouldn’t want to buy a Lancaster just to be target practice for an Me-262.

 

Though an AI only version of the heavy bombers would be nice to have.

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The mostly likely candidates (imo) at this point are along the lines of B-25 US, Mosquito RAF, and hopefully the Do217 for the Luftwaffe 

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Ju 88 G1/G6 is also a very likely candidate. They were used as pathfinder planes on 1st January 1945, the rough model is already in the game, so no reason to not have them in BOBP at least as AI planes. 

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A Ju 88 G is very different from the A-4 we have model-wise. Given what Jason has told us time and time again I think it's unrealistic to expect a lot of work and manpower being put into something so "peripheral". Remember the Ju 88 G was a night-fighter, not a bomber.

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15 minutes ago, csThor said:

A Ju 88 G is very different from the A-4 we have model-wise. Given what Jason has told us time and time again I think it's unrealistic to expect a lot of work and manpower being put into something so "peripheral". Remember the Ju 88 G was a night-fighter, not a bomber.

 

Yeah sure, however it most likely is more easy to build an 88G from an existing 88A then say build a B26 Marauder or A26 Intruder from scratch. We will learn sooner or later which 2mot planes we´ll see in BOBP. Still at least a year to go.

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11 hours ago, IckyATLAS said:

I just missed the posts on the bombers and I am somewhat disappointed. On the European theater no flyable or at minimum AI heavy bombers like at least the Lancaster and B17 seems strange. Make it collector for everybody and with a high premium price like 30$ or 50$ per plane but they should be there.

 

The focus, as it has been for this series, is on the tactical elements in the West. We have two entire air force structures oriented at tactical operations: the USAAF 9th Air Force and the RAF 2nd TAF.

 

Everyone thinks of the air war in the west as being all about the big heavy bombers but even before the armies moved ashore there was considerable gathering and use of tactical air forces.

 

Given the large number of reasons why we aren't seeing big heavies it seems only reasonable for the series to focus on strengths.

Edited by ShamrockOneFive
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1 hour ago, csThor said:

Remember the Ju 88 G was a night-fighter, not a bomber.

It would be cool to have night missions for career. AI need a fix since they are all witchers and can see at night, but these few missions i had in SP at night, it was really great, search lights all over, flare guns and tracers from AAA. These were best missions for 110 :)

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I still adhere to what I wrote in previous topics like the one Shamrock linked (how do you link a topic like this?) and multiple others:

 

The map might become the largest yet (and I'm very happy with what we are getting), still it is too small even for most medium bombers.
Of course only if you, like me, care about taking off from the historic airfields.
Even if one does not care about, he still might agree heavy bombers are not only out of scope for technical and historical reasons, but also because you can't properly operate them from the, for them, "too small" forthcoming map. Where do you want to climb to altitude after all? Circling the map's western border or over enemy territory?

To me it was a huge setback learning about the Asiatic-Pacific-Theatre being postponed. Not only because it was postponed, but also because instead there would be BoBP.
Now I'm generally not too much interested in the Western Front, nonetheless the BoBP timeframe is absorbing even to me! This wasn't the reason.
I was disappointed about the sole bomber to be included.

Personally I'm much into the B-25, but it was going to be AI only and again no justice done to the Marauder. Furthermore I was scared of USAAF Mitchells over Western/Central Europe.
The Developers quickly explained themselves and I became fine with the planeset. Now it only remains for me to hope they are going to do a B-25 C/D and not a J. Also, of course, I want to fly her myself eventually...:fly:

Speaking of other aircraft, now that we know about where the map is going to be located, I feel there is little missing to the setup. Especially so in terms of medium bombers.

The missing Marauder I initially was disappointed about still is a worthwhile aircraft neglected by so many games, yet she wasn't based in the area the map is depicting. For sure we will see her over New Guinea 1942-43. :cool:

A popular topic seems to be the Mosquito. I'm not sure which version most are thinking about, but besides many Squadrons still being based in the UK during 1945, the FB-version was mostly focused on anti-shipping duties. Most continental based squadrons were night fighter units, again mostly based outside boundaries.

The only Luftwaffe medium bomber with at least some operational usage worth including would be the Ju 88 S - once more not based inside map boundaries.
Probably there will be two Luftwaffe units in the campaign operating bomber aircraft, no medium ones though. I'm in contact with BlackSix about this.

 

 

Summarizing: I'm basically with Gambit except I wouldn't mind an IJAAF one as well. ;)

17 hours ago, Gambit21 said:

The hell with more us Bombers...give me the Betty.

Time for some PTO goodness after this.

 

But if you absolutely need more BoBP aircraft I would suggest focusing on those:

 

- Northrop P-61 "Black Widow" with 422nd Night Fighter Squadron based at Florennes plus a detachment of 414th NF Squadron. Besides some nocturnal encounters they very frequently flew intruder & attack missions and often had their dorsal turret removed.

- Hawker Typhoon

- Arado Ar 234

- Gloster Meteor

 

Don't forget: Chances are the B-25 is going to be flyable eventually and with the P-38 changed to model J we may get the "Droop Snoot".

Edited by =27=Davesteu

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19 hours ago, AKA_Recon said:

While the fighters for this looks great, I was deeply disappointed to find out no US bombers would be a part of this package.

 

Any chance we can get a bomber package at some point ?

 

If I need my monthly bomber fix I´m using Il-2 1946, which is still a pretty good game, modded and all. Unfortunately we most likely won´t see such action in Il-2 GB anytime soon.

 

 

4 hours ago, =27=Davesteu said:

 

- Northrop P-61 "Black Widow" with 422nd Night Fighter Squadron based at Florennes plus a detachment of 414th NF Squadron. Besides some nocturnal encounters they very frequently flew intruder & attack missions and often had their dorsal turret removed.

- Hawker Typhoon

- Arado Ar 234

- Gloster Meteor

 

 

I want them all 🙂 Black widow is an especially interesting bird!

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