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=No.617=Avro_Lancaster

Yak1B catching up with the FW190A3 on deck

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So yeah, this has happened to me twice already.

I've always been lead to believe that FW190 is a beast of a prop to fly (citing its armor and powerful engine) yet here I was today with a Yak1B on my tail and he was catching up with me slowly.  He maintained his speed and I was at 95% throttle. We were going at 600 kmh on deck.  How is he able to catch up and maintain speed??

 

The chase lasted some 15 minutes with him eventually claiming me after my engine died 

Airfield AA was useful as usual and... he escaped unscratched.

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I think it happens to everybody. Dive accelaration is missed, and VVS fighters can dive with you at hight speed without suffering structural damage. The Luftwaffe advantage in this sim is completely missed: the separation from your enemy in dive acceleration.

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I know you can squeeze a fair few extra kph out of the yaks with closed rads.

 

I would think after 15 minutes, anything he'd gained from the dive would have been expended.  Were you flying coordinated?

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hehe i was once shot like this, was diving at 700 or more km/h and yet some russian plane was able to catch me. I menaged to escape tho, not sure if he gave up because did some damage and i started running away to my AF or he knew that he could never catch me. I was really confused, always thought it was the fastest plane in game and could outdive everything. Yet some russian planes can catch you. I don't know how realistic it is, once i read that 190 pilots who tried to run away in dive (from tempest if i remember correctly but i am not really sure now) did huge mistake because it could actually outdive them and they were often shot down while they thought (like we do :P ) that 190 could always escape.

Edited by InProgress

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Yak-1b will maintain 530kph on the deck all day. 

Fw190-A3 should reach 535kph but has to use Combat power.

 

That gives a short term advantage of 5kph which is easily thrown away by poor trim.  I am also willing to bet that you were not flying completely straight & level because otherwise you would not have known he was there. Every little turn you make to look behind scrubs a lot of speed off and brings him closer while he can just fly straight. He might even have applied auto-level to get perfect trim.

 

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1 minute ago, 56RAF_Roblex said:

He might even have applied auto-level to get perfect trim.

hmm, that feels a bit like cheating :huh: did not know you could do that. At least it feels unfair.

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51 minutes ago, InProgress said:

hehe i was once shot like this, was diving at 700 or more km/h and yet some russian plane was able to catch me

 

 I think you have missed an important point here.  Just because the 190 has the faster dive, it does not mean you will be faster at any speed  :lol:     A yak can dive safely at 740kph so if you hold your own speed back to 700 he will catch you! :rolleyes:

 

You should also bear in mind that if you were both going exactly the same speed when you dived it would still take about 25 seconds to pull out a 100m lead which might still leave you in effective range if you are not dodging (which of course slows you down)  25 seconds is a long time to be a stationary target in someones sights even at extreme range.   Now add the fact that very often your attacker is going faster when he opens fire, that is the nature of combat.  If you were going 400kph and saw a yak-1 behind you in gun range doing 420kph and pushed your nose down 15 degrees did you realise that he would actually be 50m closer after 20 seconds and it would be 37 seconds before he was even back to his original range?  

Edited by 56RAF_Roblex
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But you won't be able to move or aim at that speed, am i right?

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10 minutes ago, InProgress said:

But you won't be able to move or aim at that speed, am i right?

 

Surely you have done this yourself?  If you dive after someone who is in the middle of your sights and not trying to evade then you can always make small adjustments to your aim even near lock-up but, yes at 740 a 190 will still be able to roll and pull to change direction faster than a yak.  OTOH,  most pilots don't do that, they just say 'Hey I am in a 109 or 190 so by diving I have nullified all threats.' ;)   AT 700kph the yAK is not only catching but also full able to maneuver.

Edited by 56RAF_Roblex
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8 minutes ago, 56RAF_Roblex said:

 

….. they just say 'Hey I am in a 109 or 190 so by diving I have nullified all threats.' ;)   AT 700kph the yAK is not only catching but also full able to maneuver.

 Exactly what the Finns did, or that is what they told they did.. They just dived and the VVS pilots didnt follow them. I read the reason was that the VVS planes were not able to follow. Dont know why they ( real life 109 pilots) were saying that, if its not possible. Yak should not be full manouverable at 700kph dive. In fact it should be starting to lose parts at those speeds. 109 is not full or at all manouverable at 700kph in game. Only the stabilizer is working.

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Russian dont follow cause diving in Russian plane around 700 kph IAS was seroiusly risky buisnees. Not true on game unfortunately

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I think the developers overdid the Russian planes to make the game competitive because at the very beginning the BoS the 109s had serious performance advantage. That is why they extended the  safety performance of the Yaks for example. Yaks were not allowed to dive faster than 650 km/h. according to the specifications and original guides. As any plane has statistically better tolerance than the safety limits it is possible that the Yak could make to the 720 km/h limit.

However not every Yak some would disintegrate    at 670, 680, 700, 720, some outliers could go even more than 720 km/h who knows this is statistics.

However in the game we do not have that. We have hard coded 700 safety dive, which is unrealistic.

The developers could remedy that by adding simple statistical tools to make statistical calculations each time you dive. 
The developers also gave the 109 diving speeds of 850 km/h, so their safety limits were extended as well.

But guess what you never (or almost never) are going to use those 800 km/h in the game practice. 

If you combine that with the loss of control of the 109 and comparative better controlability you get LW players complaints. That makes almost impossible to use the historical tactics for the 109, which are boom/zoom (offensive) and diving extensions as defensive. If you combine that with the reduced gunnery punch since the last patch we get carnage.

 

Yesterday I flew on WoL, the blue team was serving as cannon fodder.

http://il2stat.aviaskins.com:8008/ru/mission/10410/

 

As this is a zero sum game, somebody wins and somebody looses of course the Red players will not agree, and I am well aware of that.

Regarding the 190 did you fly in clean configuration or with the outer guns. That is important because if you use the outer guns you have a speed penalty that is in my opinion huge.

 

2nd_Lt_Trotsky you may laugh but you have only allied sorties on Wings.

Happy Victory day by the way. S!

Edited by JG27_Kornezov
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1 hour ago, =621=Samikatz said:

Even if your plane outdives theirs, you can't outdive bullets

Exactly, dive speed/acceleration missed + “laser” = bye bye Luftwaffe advantage. Boring but it’s a dead horse at this point. This is the way this sim does work without considering the paper DM reserved to the Luftwaffe aircrafts. With Bondenplatte, may be, we could finally move on giving up with the Russian front, Pe2 and VVS.

Edited by 150GCT_Veltro
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19 minutes ago, 150GCT_Veltro said:

Exactly, dive speed missed + “laser” = bye bye Luftwaffe advantage. Boring but it’s a dead horse at this point. This is the way this sim does work without considering the paper DM reserved to the Luftwaffe aircrafts. With Bondenplatte, may be, we could finally move on giving up with the Russian front, Pe2 and VVS.

 

Pilots in this game play more aggressively than real pilots ever will because their life isn't on the line. That's why ground attack weapons are so much more effective, people are willing to get closer. Fighter pilots in the VVS stuck rigidly to the limits set out in their manuals (which will be well within a safety margin, putting the VNE at 650kmh would not be realistic) because they didn't know how far they could push their aircraft. In game pilots know exactly how hard they can push their aircraft and will fly to those limits.

 

As for the DM claims, in this thread people putting tests together found out that it takes the same number of HE shells for a Bf-109 to shoot down a Yak-1 as vice versa;

 

If anything the Hispano is probably too good...

 

I will add that if you are trying to make a bnz pass on a target at such a speed that they can easily pull around and chase you, you are not going fast enough

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18 minutes ago, =621=Samikatz said:

 

Pilots in this game play more aggressively than real pilots ever will because their life isn't on the line. That's why ground attack weapons are so much more effective, people are willing to get closer. Fighter pilots in the VVS stuck rigidly to the limits set out in their manuals (which will be well within a safety margin, putting the VNE at 650kmh would not be realistic) because they didn't know how far they could push their aircraft. In game pilots know exactly how hard they can push their aircraft and will fly to those limits.

 

As for the DM claims, in this thread people putting tests together found out that it takes the same number of HE shells for a Bf-109 to shoot down a Yak-1 as vice versa;

 

If anything the Hispano is probably too good...

 

I will add that if you are trying to make a bnz pass on a target at such a speed that they can easily pull around and chase you, you are not going fast enough

 

Yak-1 is just one only example, but the paper DM does rule also for Stuka, as for 110 ecc. ecc.. About Boom and Zoom tactic, it has been almost killed in this sim because of what we have said above in this thread. I prefer don't make comments about Hispano as for 23mm ecc. ecc.. If we'll have a 1944 ETO scenary, probably nobody will fly anymore a German aicraft in such conditions.

 

Not bias at this point, we need only to move on.

Edited by 150GCT_Veltro
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10 minutes ago, =621=Samikatz said:

Pilots in this game play more aggressively than real pilots ever will because their life isn't on the line. That's why ground attack weapons are so much more effective, people are willing to get closer.

This is why i like career :) you just need to force yourself to click iron mode and then you will play like your life is on the line, at least hundreds of hours :lol: no more dropping bombs from 10m alt or trying to get that kill till the last second and pulling up while 10cm from the ground :P if only AI was not so suicidal :rolleyes:

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Or.. you know.. you could TAW... where your life matters and the pilots fly like it does..I suggest hitting record the next time you find yourself in an engagement to see what happened.. also, TACVIEW

Edited by =CAF=xThrottle_Geek

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Locked due to accusations of Bias by the devs. 

 

Next one to do so, even if it is very subtle one will have a break from this forums.

 

Haash

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