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Anti-Cheat?

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What security do we have in this game against cheaters?

 

I am meaning digital cheats, for which a modification has been made to the cheater's game causing an advantage against others in an online environment. I suppose that could be 3rd party alterations to any of: speed, invisibility, invincibility, maneuverability, potency, et al.

 

I am not implying anything, nor am I particularly suspicious. I am just curious. I presume there is something, I just don't know what it is or how well it works.

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Well, the game runs some sort of hard coded checksum to the game files. If you modify any of the game libraries and try to load them, the application will not allow you to launch a mission. Overcoming this defense would require recompiling the game sources, finding the section of (non-human readable) code that does this check, and modifying it. Too make it even harder for prospect cheaters, performance data for the aircraft is mostly hard-coded into the game. It's very unlikely you will see this kind of cheating happening any time soon. 

 

 

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51 minutes ago, Flitgun said:

What security do we have in this game against cheaters?

 

The best security would be... general lack of motivation to cheat. This is not usual "F2P" MMO - to contrary - barriers to entry (cash upfront and dedication) makes it out of reach of most troublemakers. We (?) value a truthful representation of events, both real and virtual.

 

To answer the direct question, thought - I don't know exactly but for the networking model - some stuff is computed on clients (like ballistics) and may present a weakness to exploit. However... considering scrupulousness of users not such cheat would persist for long and being ostracized forever is... hardly worth it.

Edited by Ehret
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What Pupo said.  The game verifies that everybody is running with the same file set - code as well as any data files.  There might be loop holes open (turning off the game when you get hit is one that I have heard of) but outright cheats would be challenging.  Things like ballistics, Fm parameters, etc. are embedded in the game and not available via some loose config file.  A check sum will verify the integrity of the data.

 

If you run a server with mods, lock it.  Running with mods may disables many of the security mechanisms.  Lock the server and let in people that you trust.  You can do the same with servers that do not support mods.

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" What security do we have in this game against cheaters?"

A relatively small and niche player base consisting mostly of grognards.

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3 minutes ago, CMBailey said:

grognards.

Word of the week! Thanks!

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Good guestion, is it impossible to cheat in this game? So far i havent seen any incident that would make me too suspicious.

Sometimes it seems that my bullets go thru the enemy plane without any affect, but it could very well be that I missed or some net code or whatever. Also few times I have thought that the enemy is going a lot faster than i did exspect, but that too could be misinterpretation.

 

In the old ubisoft forum someone once wrote : " I would rather lose 100 fights than win 1 fight by cheating". I remember it still coz it was just like I think.

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There was some cheaters, more than a year ago, but obvious and gross ones (infinite bombs, aimbot bearing teleporting planes...) but anti-cheats have been implemented since and I've yet to see a convincing proof of a real cheater in the current version. 

 

There is a real issue with the netcode and how it handles the data on a close to maxed capacity server (I've myself shot down a fighter by shooting more than 10 meters below it while he was pulling up hard, during a player hosted mission that was laggy as heck).

Devs have already stated that the netcode was written years ago by a developper who is no longer working in the team. One of the lead programmer (can't remember who) had a look into it and said that the code was so special that it would take months to a dedicated programmer to understand precisely how it works and upgrade it. Nothing they could do within the BoK timeframe with their current human ressources.

 

Let's hope BoBp will allow them to do this.

 

 

Edited by F/JG300_Gruber

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you shouldnt mind when i was hotlapping in raceroom in the top ten of the leaderboard all but me an a italian guy hacked yet i still beat them

 

its not the same in fps where hacking gives you a huge advantage but in pilotting games hacking is for losers and theyre so bad not even with hacks they can do well

 

im learning reverse engineering now for when the machines rise and cheat engine is an amzing tool that lets you make private hacks

Edited by raaaid
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55 minutes ago, F/JG300_Gruber said:

There was some cheaters, more than a year ago, but obvious and gross ones (infinite bombs, aimbot bearing teleporting planes...) but anti-cheats have been implemented since and I've yet to see a convincing proof of a real cheater in the current version.

 

-> Cheating is encouraged where there is inequality of opportunity and assessment -  deal with it :dry:

 

55 minutes ago, F/JG300_Gruber said:

There is a real issue with the netcode and how it handles the data on a close to maxed capacity server (I've myself shot down a fighter by shooting more than 10 meters below it while he was pulling up hard, during a player hosted mission that was laggy as heck).

 

 

The High Ping Player advantage, for example.........a real issue

 

1 hour ago, F/JG300_Gruber said:

Devs have already stated that the netcode was written years ago by a developper who is no longer working in the team. One of the lead programmer (can't remember who) had a look into it and said that the code was so special that it would take months to a dedicated programmer to understand precisely how it works and upgrade it. Nothing they could do within the BoK timeframe with their current human ressources.

 

 

 

 

How sentimental the hearted excuses. I simple don't buy this "so special written that it takes months to understand it"

 

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Just now, Livai said:

 

-> Cheating is encouraged where there is inequality of opportunity and assessment -  deal with it :dry:

 

 

The High Ping Player advantage, for example.........a real issue

 

 

 

How sentimental the hearted excuses. I simple don't buy this "so special written that it takes months to understand it"

 

I take it from this post you've never been asked to upgrade someone else's poorly/sparsely documented rat's nest of code.

Its not so simple as sitting down and reading a book, especially if the guy was operating by himself and took shortcuts/did unconventional things without commenting it in the code or documentation.

Talk to any programmer and they'll tell you stories of literally calling guys out of retirement or after a layoff because no one else could figure out the guy's programming. It happens all the time. 

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3 hours ago, VesseL said:

Good guestion, is it impossible to cheat in this game?

It is possible to cheat in any game that runs important things on the client. There are methods to make it very difficult, but ultimately anything that exists on the player's computer is a "loophole". Checksums, obfuscation, etc. only slow down cheaters. 

 

5 hours ago, CMBailey said:

" What security do we have in this game against cheaters?"

A relatively small and niche player base consisting mostly of grognards.

That is indeed the main line of defence. If Il-2 had the audience of World of Tanks, for example, the game would be unplayable online. 

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Got to agree with Raid, anyone who cheats already sucks and the cheat likely won't help that.

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I just can't imagine going to all the trouble to cheat at this game. Like I can't comprehend how un-fun it would be to go to all the trouble to get things set up and have a rig that would run the game and get online, and get your game controllers...and then spend hours getting around all the checks and barriers, modding the game files so that you can cheat. Its a lot of extra effort to make the game less fun.

 

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51 minutes ago, RedKestrel said:

I just can't imagine going to all the trouble to cheat at this game. Like I can't comprehend how un-fun it would be to go to all the trouble to get things set up and have a rig that would run the game and get online, and get your game controllers...and then spend hours getting around all the checks and barriers, modding the game files so that you can cheat. Its a lot of extra effort to make the game less fun.

 

 

Some people would do it to see if they can as the fun would be in cracking the game not the actual cheating itself.

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19 minutes ago, AbortedMan said:

Short answer: Poor. Poor security. 

 

Interested to hear more on why you think this?

 

There was a cheater caught on video by DerSheriff not long ago, if that is what you are in reference to? Don't know if the devs banned him from accessing the game but he has been banned by server admin and not been seen on the server again since. 

 

Edited by Mcdaddy

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" If Il-2 had the audience of World of Tanks, for example, the game would be unplayable online."

Don't know about WoT, but WT has announced the ban of over 500 cheater accounts in the last 2-3 months. I don't know what they did to start catching them.

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3 hours ago, Mcdaddy said:

 

Interested to hear more on why you think this?

 

There was a cheater caught on video by DerSheriff not long ago, if that is what you are in reference to? Don't know if the devs banned him from accessing the game but he has been banned by server admin and not been seen on the server again since. 

 

Online manipulation of gameplay parameters are tested by an independent group of enthusiast players on a monthly/2-monthly basis and are still not seeing any difficult obstacles to prevent aforementioned manipulation using simple and common methods.

 

As I understand, the problem isn’t big enough to dedicate significant resources according to the dev’s actions/updates. Look at scoreboards on certain servers where tracking is available, the surface-level evidence is there as well.

Edited by AbortedMan

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53 minutes ago, Sambot88 said:

Plus elitism is no way to defend against anything.

It's not elitism. It's just that a larger audience makes it more likely that someone will distribute specialized tools for cheating.

 

Furthermore, grindy/extremely competitive games encourage cheating. In Il-2, the stakes just aren't high enough to cause a widespread problem. At most, cheaters can hope to annoy a few players or get on a leaderboard for a while. 

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2 hours ago, AbortedMan said:

Online manipulation of gameplay parameters are tested by an independent group of enthusiast players on a monthly/2-monthly basis and are still not seeing any difficult obstacles to prevent aforementioned manipulation using simple and common methods.

 

As I understand, the problem isn’t big enough to dedicate significant resources according to the dev’s actions/updates. Look at scoreboards on certain servers where tracking is available, the surface-level evidence is there as well.

 

Haven't heard of this before. I presume you're part of said group. Not sure what you mean there by scoreboards with tracking available. 

 

Do you mean the likes of Wings of Liberty or TAW with recorded stats? How do we find the surface-level cheating evidence with that?

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9 hours ago, raaaid said:

you shouldnt mind when i was hotlapping in raceroom in the top ten of the leaderboard all but me an a italian guy hacked yet i still beat them

 

its not the same in fps where hacking gives you a huge advantage but in pilotting games hacking is for losers and theyre so bad not even with hacks they can do well

 

im learning reverse engineering now for when the machines rise and cheat engine is an amzing tool that lets you make private hacks

 

3E0CD337-AC04-46F2-9E00-28ED94E1B8DC.png

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One thing to keep in mind is that between Bodenplatte adding the popular late war/American planes and Tank Crew filling out ground operations it is VERY likely that IL2 is about to experience a big jump in popularity. So the “small audience” thing I mentioned is liable to be less true in the next year or two.

Edited by CMBailey
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6 hours ago, CMBailey said:

" If Il-2 had the audience of World of Tanks, for example, the game would be unplayable online."

Don't know about WoT, but WT has announced the ban of over 500 cheater accounts in the last 2-3 months. I don't know what they did to start catching them.

 

Just to put this in perspective,  PUBG (I love this game) banned 322,000 in Oct, 378,000 in Nov, 1,122,000 in Dec, and 1,422,000 in Jan.  Those are not cumulative numbers.

 

As for my personal experience in BoX, I mostly just operate tanks (50/50 red/blue) and I've been "called out" as a cheater numerous times.  So there are definitely people out there who are convinced, rightly or wrongly, that cheating is possible and that perception, if widespread, could hurt the franchise.

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2 hours ago, chuter said:

As for my personal experience in BoX, I mostly just operate tanks (50/50 red/blue) and I've been "called out" as a cheater numerous times.  So there are definitely people out there who are convinced, rightly or wrongly, that cheating is possible and that perception, if widespread, could hurt the franchise.

 

With all due respect, in this flight simulator, nobody really cares to call someone who just drives tanks a cheater. 

Edited by Mcdaddy
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