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Are there more Eastern Front flyable aircraft types planned?

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3 minutes ago, Feathered_IV said:

It was a well known server ten years or more ago.  It featured every later war uber plane in continuous rotation and little else.  

 

I had to be desperate to fly on there - the good ol days.

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On 5/6/2018 at 6:18 AM, PatrickAWlson said:

Great Battles got going with a loyal Russian market as well as dedicated IL2 and RoF fans worldwide.  If it is not the most highly regarded WWII flight sim on the market I don't know what is.  Trying to get market share in the rest of the world just makes sense.

 

That does indeed make sense...

 

but I hope they don't try to do it at the expense of that original market, as that would be foolish, and possibly deprive us of some wonderful maps and aircraft.

 

===========

 

On an associated but rarely mentioned note...

 

the Pacific theater would be nice and all that, but I for one would be reluctant to buy it if a sizable chunk of my money goes to the likes of Northrop Grumman for copyrights on aircraft that were bought & paid for and out of use 60+ years ago

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40 minutes ago, Pict said:

I for one would be reluctant to buy it if a sizable chunk of my money goes to the likes of Northrop Grumman for copyrights on aircraft that were bought & paid for and out of use 60+ years ago

 

That issue is old, dead, and buried. Bringing it back up doesn't do anyone any good.

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6 minutes ago, LukeFF said:
48 minutes ago, Pict said:

I for one would be reluctant to buy it if a sizable chunk of my money goes to the likes of Northrop Grumman for copyrights on aircraft that were bought & paid for and out of use 60+ years ago

That issue is old, dead, and buried. Bringing it back up doesn't do anyone any good.

 

Whether or not this is a thing is irrelevant anyways. Asiatic-Pacific-Theatre does not have to rely on any aircraft build by Northrop-Grumman or its predecessors to work just fine. :ph34r:
But I know, anything east of Stalingrad and west of California was carrier-hellcat-corsair-zero area only, so we probably need Northrop-Grumman after all. :rolleyes:
Unfortunately the accessibility of Grumman's archive has deteriorated for sure since the incorporation.

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39 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

 

That issue is old, dead, and buried. Bringing it back up doesn't do anyone any good.

 

Most dead horses on the Eastern Front were left unburied. ;)

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17 minutes ago, Space_Ghost said:

 

Most dead horses on the Eastern Front were left unburied. ;)

 

But probably left unflogged...

 

(that said, as a newbie I'm curious about this debate, sorry)

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10 minutes ago, rodgerdavies said:

 

But probably left unflogged...

 

(that said, as a newbie I'm curious about this debate, sorry)

 

Flogged right in to a stew in most cases.

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29 minutes ago, Space_Ghost said:

 

Flogged right in to a stew in most cases.

Well a man's gotta eat and times were hell.

 

As for copyright and IP, the modern system is very broke.  In the Anglo West anyway, some protections are warranted for limited time periods but now, it is beyond ridiculous.

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2 hours ago, =27=Davesteu said:

But I know, anything east of Stalingrad and west of California was carrier-hellcat-corsair-zero area only

 

That's just not correct

 

3 hours ago, LukeFF said:

That issue is old, dead, and buried. Bringing it back up doesn't do anyone any good.

 

According to you...

 

I think it is quite relevant, considering it had a major impact on the only time IL2 Sturmovik produced a Pacific theater and this incarnation of IL2 Sturmovik has shown intentions of doing the same

 

If I'd prefer not to put my hard earned cash into the US military industrial complex, I have the right to say so and don't need any forum junkie to try and shut me down because he doesn't like it.

Edited by Pict

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24 minutes ago, Pict said:

According to you...

 

No, that's according to the people who are developing this game.

 

25 minutes ago, Pict said:

If I'd prefer not to put my hard earned cash into the US military industrial complex, I have the right to say so and don't need any forum junkie to try and shut me down because he doesn't like it.

 

ROFL! Whatever, dude. Sounds like you have an axe to grind that you just cannot let go of. 

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11 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

No, that's according to the people who are developing this game.

 

I have no idea what these people have in mind...I simply quoted you, so as far as I'm concerned that was by definition according to you. If you can't wear it, don't post it.

 

13 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

Sounds like you have an axe to grind that you just cannot let go of

 

No axe to grind or to let go of...I'm just voting with my wallet and I have every right to do so and nothing you say will change that.

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11 minutes ago, Pict said:

 

I have no idea what these people have in mind...I simply quoted you, so as far as I'm concerned that was by definition according to you. If you can't wear it, don't post it.

 

 

No axe to grind or to let go of...I'm just voting with my wallet and I have every right to do so and nothing you say will change that.

Squawking about it and issuing statements based half truths don't accomplish much either. Like Luke and Space_Ghost said, it's an old issue, dead and buried. The lesson was learned and hasn't been repeated in this IL-2.

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3 minutes ago, Rjel said:

Squawking about it and issuing statements based half truths

 

You obviously didn't read what I wrote...either

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Yes you have the right to vote with your wallet...we get it.

Moving on.

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5 hours ago, Pict said:

the Pacific theater would be nice and all that, but I for one would be reluctant to buy it if a sizable chunk of my money goes to the likes of Northrop Grumman for copyrights on aircraft that were bought & paid for and out of use 60+ years ago

 

The old issue that you're probably thinking about was related to trademarks, not copyright. This is a small but important distinction. 

 

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39 minutes ago, Pict said:

 

You obviously didn't read what I wrote...either

Sure did. Your "hard earned cash" isn't being put into the "US military industrial complex" based on your purchase of this sim. Unless you're a U.S. based flier and pay taxes here. But like Gambit said, time to move on.

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1 hour ago, Mitthrawnuruodo said:

 

The old issue that you're probably thinking about was related to trademarks, not copyright. This is a small but important distinction. 

 

 

Bingo.

 

@Pict;  I might be wrong but I seem to recall it was the artwork that Oleg and/or Ubisoft put on the DVD case for Pacific Fighters that landed them in hot water with NG's lawyers.

 

 This won't be any sort of an issue here. :salute: 

 

Edit;  I loved War Clouds:)  For a start, the chat was.....polite:o: 

 

Imagine that?

Edited by DD_Arthur

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9 hours ago, DD_Arthur said:

@Pict;  I might be wrong but I seem to recall it was the artwork that Oleg and/or Ubisoft put on the DVD case for Pacific Fighters that landed them in hot water with NG's lawyers.

 

 This won't be any sort of an issue here. :salute: 

 

I hope your right, it'd be a shame to have something so good as BOX held back by such minor details...

 

Grumman Hellcat, is possibly my favorite US aircraft of all time and I spent much time in it in Pacific Fighters, even reading the book "Hellcat" by Barrett Tillman cover to cover more than once

 

11 hours ago, Rjel said:

time to move on

 

As you you like...I didn't ask you to stop and talk in the first place :) 

Edited by Pict

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To answer the OP question. I hope not, Im sick of the eastern front by now and you know on the west there are no great patriotic planes. I will stop with that.

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3 hours ago, Pict said:

As you you like...I didn't ask you to stop and talk in the first place :) 

Well heck, I didn’t realize the conversation was by invitation only. My mistake. Please do continue making inaccurate and misleading statements. Again, my apologies. ;)

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We could use a true level Bomber for the reds. Just a little bored of dogfighting Pe2s and A20s :lol:

 

Luftwaffe could use Stukas B and D5,

Me410 especially now with Bodenplatte on the way. He111 H16/R1 or H20 would be great too.

 

 

Edited by 6./ZG26_Gielow

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14 hours ago, DD_Arthur said:

I might be wrong but I seem to recall it was the artwork that Oleg and/or Ubisoft put on the DVD case for Pacific Fighters that landed them in hot water with NG's lawyers.

AFAIK it was about the explicit usage of the brand name "Grumman" in the cover listing of available aircraft without permission granted by Northrop-Grumman.
 

18 hours ago, Pict said:
20 hours ago, =27=Davesteu said:

But I know, anything east of Stalingrad and west of California was carrier-hellcat-corsair-zero area only

That's just not correct

Why not? Apparently it is.

 

 

But indeed, let's get back on topic.

On 6.5.2018 at 3:37 AM, hames123 said:

But why? They can make Leningrad with the Finns, and then we will have all the German aircraft already.

Makes sense, right?

So you are basically proposing a rehash of "IL2: Forgotten Battles" and the "Gulf of Finland" map.

It was my favorite stock one, but it had its historical limits. By trying to cover Winter War, Continuation War, Siege of Leningrad and Volkhov Front with one map they especially limited possibilities for latter three. Important areas, like Karelia or down to Lake Ilmen were missing, thereby omitting (the) important parts of the overall picture.

 

On 6.5.2018 at 6:18 AM, PatrickAWlson said:

Bodenplatte and Flying Circus seem targeted at the US and European markets.  More people, (> 700 million vs < 200 million in Russia) and more money.  Not sure what the appeal of WWII flight sims is in Asia, but if it's there then the Pacific also makes sense. 

On 6.5.2018 at 5:13 PM, =621=Samikatz said:

I think most flight sim fans aren't that patriotic to any particular nation, and just want to play whatever is interesting and important.

Unfortunately that's not the case Samikaze. It's not simply about patriotism though, but that's worth a topic on its own.

 

On 6.5.2018 at 6:17 AM, Field-Ops said:

Plus with the business model the devs have adopted, I don't think they want to do theaters where one of the sides already have all the aircrafts made so they have nothing new to sell.

First of all I don't expect any complete Eastern Front related releases in the foreseeable future. More likely some collector aircraft fitting already existing maps.
Therefore, except for 109s (and 190s if you do not absolutely need an A-4 for whatever reason), I don't see any shortage on worthy candidates for both sides.
Stating this, I also don't think those theoretical releases would have to be evened out/"fair".

For example, if the VVS get an early and a late LaGG-3 the Axis don't necessarily need any "compensation" in my opinion.

 

Said early and late LaGG would probably be the most cost effective and economical additions right now.
We already have one standard, one Yak-1 collector aircraft and the Yak-7. Difference between the Series 69 and earlier ones is limited to the engine and the rear canopy glazing broadly speaking.
Early series LaGG however noticeably differ in their armament setup. I guess it's therefore much more interesting to the customer.

 

I-15 or I-153 could serve the player in their fighter role 1941 and later on as Shturmoviks, just like in reality. Drawback being they are completely new airframes.

 

Regarding additional bombers for the red side:

Few of you were talking about Tu-2 earlier in this thread - I really like the design and love(d) playing it in the first generation IL2, but it wasn't really used operational in any significant numbers before the second half of 1944. After all only 104 were build in the first production run.
IL-4 I'm not too convinced about either. It was mainly used with the ADD (long range aviation) and more often than not mainly during nighttime.
Personally I vote for (and would like) the SB-2 if we are talking about completely new airframes.

 

 

Focus is on BoBP right now anyways and hopefully (!) on Asiatic-Pacific-Theatre afterwards. I wouldn't mind some Eastern Front collectors now and then over the next few years, but it's nothing urgent (for me). I'm pretty happy with what we got right now.
Let's see what's going to happen with the U-2 and maybe Li-2.

Edited by =27=Davesteu

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47 minutes ago, =27=Davesteu said:

IL-4 I'm not too convinced about either. It was mainly used with the ADD (long range aviation) and more often than not mainly during nighttime.
Personally I vote for (and would like) the SB-2 if we are talking about completely new airframes.

 

The problem with the SB-2 is that most of them were lost in the initial stages of Barbarossa iirc, flying low level ground support missions unescorted. It also had a small bombload, like 600 Kg or so I think, most people would just stick to the early Pe-2 s35 as it's better in every way (heavier bombload, faster, better protected, more resilient).

 

Imho a DB-3/DB-3F would be more appropiate, the DB-3F being the earlier version of the IL-4, with a ShKAS turret instead of the UBT, and without a dedicated belly gunner. This bomber would be closer to the He 111 in speed, bombload and defensive armament.

 



 

1_59.jpg

 

1_27.jpg

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12 hours ago, Rjel said:

Well heck, I didn’t realize the conversation was by invitation only. My mistake. Please do continue making inaccurate and misleading statements. Again, my apologies. ;)

 

 

No need to apologize, you invited yourself, same way you decided to "move on"...it's your call not mine is all I said...(as it should be).

 

but as your still here, it looks to me that if anyone is "making inaccurate and misleading statements" it's you :)

 

11 hours ago, =27=Davesteu said:
On 5/9/2018 at 10:24 PM, Pict said:
On 5/9/2018 at 7:37 PM, =27=Davesteu said:

But I know, anything east of Stalingrad and west of California was carrier-hellcat-corsair-zero area only

That's just not correct

Why not? Apparently it is.

 

Off the top of the head (there will be many more examples), there was massive air battles over:

 

China

Manchuria 

Burma

Singapore

Java

Port Moresby

Darwin

 

All of them are "east of Stalingrad and west of California"

 

None of them featured carriers, Hellcats or Corsairs

Edited by Pict

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Of course there will be other Eastern Front planes. We have no plans to abandon that type of content even with current announcements. The Po-2 and Li-2 are already announced. We know  you want the Yak-9 and Yak-3 etc.

 

Jason

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3 hours ago, Jason_Williams said:

Of course there will be other Eastern Front planes. We have no plans to abandon that type of content even with current announcements. The Po-2 and Li-2 are already announced. We know  you want the Yak-9 and Yak-3 etc.

 

Jason

 

Whaaaaaaaaaaaat?!

 

I honestly had the feeling that you guys wouldn't give up on the Eastern Front, since it still bears alot of both early and late war potential. But I didn't expect one of you guys in charge to show up at this point and actually tell a few possibilities by name.

 

I know that doesn't mean that new Eastern Front planes will show up anytime soon (except the Po-2 maybe), but you reassuring us that you still didn't give up on that scenario, even though you're working on Bodenplatte and the other two projects, plus having the strong desire to go to the Pacific scenario as well, is really appreciated.

 

The 'classic' IL-2 is what introduced me into the air war over the Eastern Front back in 2001 and I really hope that you guys will find the time and funds to flesh it out in this latest installment of the best combat flight sim ever created.

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Wonderful news. I hope it could be done along side. Maybe collector plane one by one. It's better than none in a long time. Number of planes produced should be a key point, i.e. I15/153 is really a missing gap now.

 

Planes and maps! That's the way to grow now. The old Il2 1946 had over 300 maps and xxx planes. That huge variety is what has made that there are still many die-hards there.

Edited by PA_Spartan-

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4 hours ago, Jason_Williams said:

Of course there will be other Eastern Front planes. We have no plans to abandon that type of content even with current announcements. The Po-2 and Li-2 are already announced. We know  you want the Yak-9 and Yak-3 etc.

Wasn't expecting such a clear statement right now in this thread. Thank you!
It's particularly interesting to read about the Li-2. Do I put too much emphasis on "announced" or is this a first indication of you being happy with how the U-2/Po-2 turns out? :)
Until now it was "If successful, we plan to make the Li-2 next. We are making NO PROMISES" to me.

PS: Please keep that fighter and attacker pilot satisfying 37mm NS-37 armed Yak-9T in mind if you guys have to carry the burden of deciding on one more Yak. :happy:

 

 

5 hours ago, Pict said:
16 hours ago, =27=Davesteu said:
On 9.5.2018 at 10:24 PM, Pict said:
On 9.5.2018 at 7:37 PM, =27=Davesteu said:

But I know, anything east of Stalingrad and west of California was carrier-hellcat-corsair-zero area only

That's just not correct

Why not? Apparently it is.

Off the top of the head (there will be many more examples), there was massive air battles over:

....

You probably didn't get (or it wasn't as obvious) the sarcasm.
I'm well aware and actually try to constantly remind of the many scenarios other than the publicly well known but pretty much Pacific Ocean Area-centric ones.
Unfortunately/Amazingly that's what most, including a considerable amount of people generally interested in aviation history, basically solely think about.

That's why I initially commented: "Whether or not this is a thing is irrelevant anyways. Asiatic-Pacific-Theatre does not have to rely on any aircraft build by Northrop-Grumman or its predecessors to work just fine. :ph34r:"

 

13 hours ago, -=PHX=-SuperEtendard said:

 

The problem with the SB-2 is that most of them were lost in the initial stages of Barbarossa iirc, flying low level ground support missions unescorted. It also had a small bombload, like 600 Kg or so I think, most people would just stick to the early Pe-2 s35 as it's better in every way (heavier bombload, faster, better protected, more resilient).

 

Imho a DB-3/DB-3F would be more appropiate, the DB-3F being the earlier version of the IL-4, with a ShKAS turret instead of the UBT, and without a dedicated belly gunner. This bomber would be closer to the He 111 in speed, bombload and defensive armament.

Il-4 was just a new designation for DB-3F. But however you like to call it, it was far from one homogeneous subvariant for sure.
And yes, you are correctly pointing out general similarities in layout compared with the Heinkel, but it wasn't as convenient in terms of flight characteristics on one hand and true overall performance compared to theoretical one on the other.
You are also correct to point out the tremendous losses on SB-2, but that's also true for the DB-3/IL-4 in the first two years of war.

I'm not arguing against the Pe-2 being the better aircraft, it was for sure and wouldn't have succeeded the SB/Ar-2 if it hadn't been, but, at least for me, it's not always about the better aircraft (seldom it is in fact).

Being generally happy with what aircraft we got right now, I feel Moscow is in need of proper additions the most.
It just lacks a bit for me. I like the 1941 scenario, but the map itself isn't perfect (I'd like Moscow itself plus the map borders generally expanded a bit) and most importantly the aircraft setup is somewhat limited imho. No early LaGG or Yak, none of the biplanes, none of the more obscure/rare ones. 
Later SB-2 with M-103 or even M-105 would negatively differ in terms of playstyle from early Pe-2 mainly by top speed and lack of dive breaks, but could carry up to 1500kg of bombload including 500kg ones. Other than speed the Pe-2 S.35 holds no advantage over the SB in terms of survivability.

 

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Po-2, Li-2, Yak-9, Yak-3.

 

Wonder what will germans get. Or i missed it or they never told us, really wonder what will be premium one next to po-2 and li-2. ;)

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9 hours ago, Jason_Williams said:

Of course there will be other Eastern Front planes. We have no plans to abandon that type of content even with current announcements. The Po-2 and Li-2 are already announced. We know  you want the Yak-9 and Yak-3 etc.

 

Jason

 

Great you made that clear. Highly appreciated!

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40 minutes ago, InProgress said:

Po-2, Li-2, Yak-9, Yak-3.

 

Wonder what will germans get. Or i missed it or they never told us, really wonder what will be premium one next to po-2 and li-2. ;)

 

I genuinely don't think that there will be German collector planes released alongside the Po-2 and Li-2.

 

There has been no indication of that happening whatsoever.

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50 minutes ago, InProgress said:

Po-2, Li-2, Yak-9, Yak-3.

 

Wonder what will germans get. Or i missed it or they never told us, really wonder what will be premium one next to po-2 and li-2. ;)

 

We need the Do17/217 :)

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1 hour ago, InProgress said:

Wonder what will germans get. Or i missed it or they never told us, really wonder what will be premium one next to po-2 and li-2. ;)

20 hours ago, =27=Davesteu said:

I also don't think those theoretical releases would have to be evened out/"fair".

For example, if the VVS get an early and a late LaGG-3 the Axis don't necessarily need any "compensation" in my opinion.

Do you necesarily need one Axis plane for compensation if one Allied is added? Serious question.

 

 

10 minutes ago, PA_Spartan- said:

We need the Do17/217 :)

Do 217 never got deployed on the eastern front.

Do 17 I like (unfortunately for me especially the E/F) for enhancing Battle of Moscow, but I feel the VVS is in need of a more divers aircraft setup first - see my previous posts.

Edited by =27=Davesteu

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I actually think the eastern front is very well rounded out right now, all I would prioritise adding would be a Fw189 or some sort of recon plane for the Germans.

 

The gameplay opportunities of aircraft like the Ju-52/Li-2 and Po-2/? are infinitely more interesting if both sides have access to an aircraft of that type. In this case transport and recon.

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The appeal of the U-2VS/U-2LNB (I hope they call it U-2 and not Po-2) over the Fi 156 Storch for example being it's common and famous use in Light (Night) Bomber Regiments besides its main use as a liaison aircraft. Contrary to what's regularly written/implicated here in the forum it was not a dedicated recon. Same is true for the Storch, just wasn't it (really) used in the night harassment role additionally.
Yes, both got used for surveillance, sometimes right over the calm (!) frontline, but they are not reconnaissance aircraft.
The Fw 189 in contrast is a dedicated close reconnaissance aircraft - a role the VVS lacked a modern dedicated aircraft for during the war. That's why they wanted something similar (Su-12).
So if the Axis get the Uhu, what does the VVS "need"? Su-2? It's not quite the same.

 

More of the early Soviet ones are needed the most, plus maybe some Axis aircraft like IAR or Macchi - that's my opinion.
But then I foremost care about the future Asiatic-Pacific-Theatre scenarios, being overall happy with how the Eastern Front is covered right now.

Edited by =27=Davesteu

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An Su-2 would be a fun addition for the Soviets. 910 produced, faster and more nimble than an Il-2 with similar payload, but less durable and without any cannons. It made up a pretty large portion of the VVS during Moscow, too

 

http://www.airpages.ru/eng/ru/su2_2.shtml

Quote

By the beginning of the German assault on the Soviet Union 13 bomber regiments had been fully or partly equipped with Su-2s. In the first month of the war, the most dramatic period for the VVS, these regiments were assigned to the western, south western and southern sectors of the front, and their losses were therefore not as great as those of the bomber regiments equipped with the Tupolev SB and llyushin DB-3. Af the beginning of the war Su-2's comprised 14% of the total bomber force deployed on the Soviet Army's western sector of the front, while by 10th Jury 1941 this had increased to 21%. By 4th October 1941, 116 of the 174 operational daylight bombers on the South Western Front were Su-2s, The 135th Bomber Air Regiment operated successfully in that area, completing 630 sorties without loss and destroying 217 tanks and up to 400 infantry vehicles. In May-June 1942 5u-2s comprised 55% or the daylighl bombers in service on the South Western Front. On 12th September 1941 female pilot Yekaterina Zelenko rammed a Messerschmitt Bf 109 near the town of Sumy while flying a burning Su-2. This was the only ramming attack performed by a woman in the history of air combat.

 

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agreed. The ones in (dare i name iot? ) War Thunder are humble, gentle workhorses. I used to set convergence to 600 meters and then go out to hunt AAA positions.

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