to all vr pilots - these are the trackir monkeys you're up against.. :)

[30speed 607]

I think you'll get my point pretty quickly.

 

How is this not cheating is beyond me. Hah..

 

and they call themselves "pilots".. "Dr". Messerschmitt.  lol.

 

 

[dburne 2456]

Lol so true.

Yet let's limit our VR head movement in the cockpit for fear we might stand on a wing.

ROTF

[BeastyBaiter 412]

I see nothing in that I don't do with my Rift.

[c6_lefuneste 777]

on the other hand, this guy is not cheating. Il2 Box should limit users to  more realistic field of view...

[dburne 2456]

1 hour ago, BeastyBaiter said:

I see nothing in that I don't do with my Rift.

 

How the heck do you get your kneck around that far?

[Wolf8312 171]

22 minutes ago, dburne said:

 

How the heck do you get your kneck around that far?

 

Maybe he's that baby from trainspotting?

[kingisep 0]

3 hours ago, Wolf8312 said:

 

Maybe he's that baby from trainspotting?

Turn your head to one side --> center VR button --> turn your head to the other side. It takes 0,5 sec. to look at your six )

Edited April 30, 2018 by kingisep

[BeastyBaiter 412]

No one else here has a completely ordinary swivel chair?

[dburne 2456]

8 hours ago, BeastyBaiter said:

No one else here has a completely ordinary swivel chair?

 

Yes I do, but guess I can't seem to swivel quite that far and maintain control.

Course I am not as limber as I used to be.

[56RAF_Roblex 1078]

Much as I hate 109s I think that was a great kill.   OK maybe a pilot would no get quite as perfect a  6 view but turning your head and moving your eyes gives you pretty much 170 degrees in real life so it is not worth the effort to block that extra 10 degrees.  If you did he would probably  just yaw the nose slightly and still get that kill so why bother?

[JaffaCake 173]

1 hour ago, 56RAF_Roblex said:

Much as I hate 109s I think that was a great kill.   OK maybe a pilot would no get quite as perfect a  6 view but turning your head and moving your eyes gives you pretty much 170 degrees in real life so it is not worth the effort to block that extra 10 degrees.  If you did he would probably  just yaw the nose slightly and still get that kill so why bother?

 

 

It was only a great kill because his 6 was completely inept at actually hitting the target. Drop the flaps, pull up the nose and the 109 is done.

[=EXPEND=Tripwire 632]

On 01/05/2018 at 9:01 AM, BeastyBaiter said:

No one else here has a completely ordinary swivel chair?

Nope. 

 

I put my swivel chair away and went with fixed legs as the swivel chair simplified checking 6, the difficulty being something I felt was a key factor in WW2 air combat. I'm in VR for the immersion first.

 

I get annoyed at how frequently others can see me sneaking up on their 6 due to owl view. Even on planes that had bad rearward cockpit visibility. 

 

[Wolf8312 171]

On 01/05/2018 at 9:01 AM, BeastyBaiter said:

No one else here has a completely ordinary swivel chair?

 

Nah I dont care about getting an edge. I prefer the VR experience to be a neck craning, back breaking simulation of the real thing! Call me a pedantic nerd but you actually get to feel the experience physiologically which really does add to the immersion!

 

Because y'know I really dont think real 109 pilots had swivel chairs back then.

 

 

Edited May 2, 2018 by Wolf8312

[=EXPEND=Tripwire 632]

5 hours ago, Wolf8312 said:

 

Nah I dont care about getting an edge. I prefer the VR experience to be a neck craning, back breaking simulation of the real thing! Call me a pedantic nerd but you actually get to feel the experience physiologically which really does add to the immersion!

 

Because y'know I really dont think real 109 pilots had swivel chairs back then.

 

 

Exactly! 

 

When you are finished a dogfight with sweat everywhere due to having had to twist and strain to keep visual contact during rolling scissors to throw that bandit off your six, others on TS amused by the strained voice communications and panicked calls for assistance...  it's quite the rush.

 

1:1 head tracking is where it's at. 

Edited May 3, 2018 by =EXPEND=Tripwire

[30speed 607]

I get that it's a computer game, etc, etc. However, one need to look at it from a purist point of view but with a balanced approach.

 

Can a real pilot fly vertically maintaining a perfect control of rudders, ailerons and elevators while looking back 170 degree for a prolonged time that Il2 allows for? Given the introduction of the VR capability that removes the trackir lightning snap effects may be the devs could possibly introduce a fatigue factor to such view positions. I.e. yes, you can look back as long as you can but after 15-20 seconds the controls become sluggish, etc.. just an opinion. It is very easy to train yourself to fly backwards like that. Fighting these trackir guys in Berloga I always find it amazing how they can evade my shots just in the right time when I'm on their six. I.e. they can clearly see when I align for a shot and evade me right that second, and they can do it all day until I run out of ammunition. I try to do it in VR as much as I can and it's near freaking impossible to see the nose of the 5,6,7 o'clock chasing plane in the periphery of my vision not mentioning its 3d position, i.e. there's no depth perception either since you can only see the plane with 1 eye. Yes, some of it can be attributed to the 100 degree Fov, small sweet spot.

 

but hey, it's a computer game.. sort of like in FPS shooters where you bunny hop to evade the enemy fire.    Can't do that in onward.

[56RAF_Roblex 1078]

11 minutes ago, moosya said:

Can a real pilot fly vertically maintaining a perfect control of rudders, ailerons and elevators while looking back 170 degree for a prolonged time that Il2 allows for?

 

Judging by the footage shot by aerobatic pilots doing vertical flick rolls I would say yes.    These people are experts but some of the pilots here probably have more hours than some aerobatic  pilots (even if they died a lot while acquiring those hours)  :-)

[Scorlhov 4]

Actually VR headset 1:1 head tracking is far from realistic.

To be realistic we need to have 210° horizontal FOV and 150° vertical FOV.

Edited May 3, 2018 by Scorlhov

[30speed 607]

1 minute ago, 56RAF_Roblex said:

 

Judging by the footage shot by aerobatic pilots doing vertical flick rolls I would say yes.    These people are experts but some of the pilots here probably have more hours than some aerobatic  pilots (even if they died a lot while acquiring those hours)  :-)

 

given my VR experience I tend to disagree here, that's the actual discussion. Remember these guys can see when I line up for a shot. And they can do it 5 minutes in a row.

[BOO 924]

I though the actual discussion was "ive got a new toy and I want the rules changing because of it" - that's how it comes across. I presume you had no objection to it when you used Track IR or similar?

 

Yours

 

A Track IR "monkey"

[Wolf8312 171]

2 minutes ago, BOO said:

I though the actual discussion was "ive got a new toy and I want the rules changing because of it" - that's how it comes across. I presume you had no objection to it when you used Track IR or similar?

 

Yours

 

A Track IR "monkey"

 

 

No it didnt come across like that. More like a playful reminder of what a disadvantage we VR fliers are at. Most of us really dont care if we win or lose competitively, the joy of VR flying is enough!

[BOO 924]

1 minute ago, Wolf8312 said:

 

 

No it didnt come across like that. More like a playful reminder of what a disadvantage we VR fliers are at. Most of us really dont care if we win or lose competitively, the joy of VR flying is enough!

Rubbish - Clearly the OP does mind. Look at Opening post - "they call themselves Pilots"   "how this isn't cheating......" "Track IR Monkeys",  "Dr Messerschmitt LOL"

 

Nothing playful in any of that. Just an outright mardy whinge at about HT ranges that fails to take in the advantage of peripheral vision and eye movement the RW has over the virtual. 

 

Denigrates a nice kill also.

[30speed 607]

33 minutes ago, BOO said:

 I presume you had no objection to it when you used Track IR or similar?

 

Yours

 

A Track IR "monkey"

“the pot calling the kettle black.”  :D

 

You assume too much on my behalf as well. Never flew with track-ir, I don't understand flying on the monitor no matter how many times I've tried it. And a track-ir device that was originally implemented as a crutch is now being used as a competitive "cheating" advantage from my point of view. So, yes, I'm upset. Eat it, ir monkey.

[BOO 924]

Before I eat eat id really like to understand it?

 

"pot calling the kettle black?" - what the hell are you on about? I didn't accuse you of cheating - just whining. Which you are. Oh...I get it. I'm the pot cos Ive called you out for whinging. So I'm whinging that you're a whinger. Fair I guess. 

 

forgive my assumption - So you either didn't fly at all and are now demanding change because you have graced us with your presence or you used snap views.

 

As for your point of view - seems as limited as the one you are not enjoying in your Smugovision and is as irrelevant to me as well.  

 

There is nothing in that video that warrants the term "cheating" or the mocking of the pilot you made. An exploit perhaps but not much of one even then when you consider the limits of in game FOVs. The deal is VR is still a glorified headtracker and will be until retina tracking and increased FOVs are common. You might be wearing the primordial slime that becomes competitive VR one day but right now you're a niche. A minority. Albeit an obnoxious and vocal one. And nothing should change because you get a sore neck. Set up a VR only server if you don't like it.

 

Or........  Eat it. 

 

 

[30speed 607]

2 minutes ago, BOO said:

 The deal is VR is still a glorified headtracker and will be until retina tracking and increased FOVs are common.

 

 

 

bro, what are you doing in our VR circlejerk forum? Taking offense on behalf of all monitor players?

[BOO 924]

1 minute ago, moosya said:

 

bro, what are you doing in our VR circlejerk forum? Taking offense on behalf of all monitor players?

if any offense was taken it was on behalf of the player you called a cheat and derided in your OP. White knighting for sure. Guilty as charged.  As for what I'm doing here its an open forum that doesn't require VR to see it. 

 

Your stance and demands are elitist. You do other VR players no service at all with your crying. It seems most are quite happy with the situation and accept the bad for the good. Many players cannot afford VR. Many cant even afford Track IR. But a lot of these players have kept this genre alive long enough with their hard earned for you to enjoy the game as it stands now. Don't denigrate us by calling us "monkeys" and cheats.

 

Track IR and the like are not perfect. I restrict mine but sure many don't. But as I'm typing this I can look over my right shoulder and see my dog dozing away behind me even though his head is about the 7 o'clock position. So am I cheating in RL? You bought into 1:1. Enjoy it for that. 

[30speed 607]

1 minute ago, BOO said:

if any offense was taken it was on behalf of the player you called a cheat and derided in your OP. White knighting for sure. Guilty as charged.

 

i'm calling you and other trackir users "cheaters" from the context of when used as shown in the video and when I'm flying against them in VR. No more no less. I don't denigrate anyone by calling them a monkey, darn it, I even call myself a monkey, it's one of my nicks. It's all in your head, bud. 

 

And as far as 1:1 interpretation it'll be easier to understand where I'm coming from:

- get in a car with a manual gear box

- turn your head 180 degrees back

- start driving forward on a straight road

- time yourself and make note of your coordination skills.

 

You can even put your dog on your backseat for that.

[BOO 924]

11 minutes ago, moosya said:

 

 I don't denigrate anyone by calling them a monkey, darn it, I even call myself a monkey, it's one of my nicks. It's all in your head, bud. 

 

I shall agree only to differ.

 

I wish you all the best. 

[30speed 607]

3 minutes ago, BOO said:

I shall agree only to differ.

 

I wish you all the best. 

 

do stay, though. May be we'll convert you to our abysmal yet strangely very expensive 1:1 hobby.

[BOO 924]

I have a Rift. I'm a long way off conversion. 

Edited May 3, 2018 by BOO

[30speed 607]

Just now, BOO said:

I have a Rift. 

 

i'm confused. But I understand you must be one very unsatisfied IL2 Rift user then?

[BOO 924]

nope - I just prefer to cheat :-)

 

Seriously - yes - I cant live with the negatives.

 

Edited May 3, 2018 by BOO

[30speed 607]

traitor!  

/kidding..

 

see if you like vivepro. It's a step up in resolution/spotting. Still 1:1 though..

 

[Ehret 448]

25 minutes ago, moosya said:

i'm calling you and other trackir users "cheaters" from the context of when used as shown in the video and when I'm flying against them in VR. No more no less. I don't denigrate anyone by calling them a monkey, darn it, I even call myself a monkey, it's one of my nicks. It's all in your head, bud.

 

So using snapshots must be then cheating, too, or something worse...

 

It's a personal decision what to use - no one is forcing you to VR.

 

[30speed 607]

1 minute ago, Ehret said:

 

So using snapshots must be then cheating, too, or something worse...

 

It's a personal decision what to use - no one is forcing you to VR.

 

 

What's a snapshot?

 

VR is very close to flying an actual thing, so not using it is out of the question. TrackIR guys can do something VR user can't. I wonder why devs didn't introduce the same 'snap to 6' functionality to VR. I'd probably vomit first couple of times but then I'd learn to use it to 'cheat' just like trackIR.

 

[BOO 924]

Just now, moosya said:

traitor!  

/kidding..

 

see if you like vivepro. It's a step up in resolution/spotting. Still 1:1 though..

 

I have a pretty weak card (1060) so the time I gave it was minimal TBH. The biggest thing for me isn't the tech or graphics though. I was ready to 1080Ti and 8700K the crap outta it.  Daft as it sounds being cut off from everything around me (in the room) just freaks me out. Maybe when we move to a house with a dedicated sim room (next year hopefully) i'll feel differently. Ive told myself to wait for the next gen in VR and cards now.  

 

Then - Ill be writing the "monkey" posts!!

 

My lad likes the rift but he's 10 so fidelity isn't the most important thing to him! :-)

[SCG_Schneemann 73]

It IS pretty funny when you are flying VR and the dog comes up and noses you though... about makes you fall out of your chair the first time.

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf 1377]

If you use the 3dmigoto mod by lefuneste, you'll have a little advantage as well. 10x zoom. It's something.

 

And snap to view users can scan the horizon much quicker. Everything has pros and cons.

 

 

Just deal with it.

[Ehret 448]

1 hour ago, moosya said:

What's a snapshot?

 

Should write "a snap view" - a changeable view preset which can be bind to a key or a button. Each aircraft has its own set and you can modify them as you see fit. Bindings are in the "Pilot head control" key mappings.

 

Edited May 3, 2018 by Ehret

[dburne 2456]

45 minutes ago, 1./JG54_Schneemann said:

It IS pretty funny when you are flying VR and the dog comes up and noses you though... about makes you fall out of your chair the first time.

 

I have a cat. Sweet little fella - sometimes.

 

Anyway, one of his favorite things to do - and mainly when I am wearing my Rift headset and flying, is to jump in my lap, try to get some lovin, and then lay down in my lap.

Makes for some interesting Career missions. If the going gets too tough, I brush him off quickly. I don't think he quite appreciates it.

Very startling at times when I am not expecting it LOL, dang cat plonking into my lap seemingly out of nowhere.

[30speed 607]

1 hour ago, BOO said:

I have a pretty weak card (1060) so the time I gave it was minimal TBH. The biggest thing for me isn't the tech or graphics though. I was ready to 1080Ti and 8700K the crap outta it.  Daft as it sounds being cut off from everything around me (in the room) just freaks me out. Maybe when we move to a house with a dedicated sim room (next year hopefully) i'll feel differently. Ive told myself to wait for the next gen in VR and cards now.  

 

Then - Ill be writing the "monkey" posts!!

 

My lad likes the rift but he's 10 so fidelity isn't the most important thing to him! :-)

 

I see you are the main market the VR business is striving for. They'll get there no doubt, but I'm happy with even the current generation. I don't think I'd enjoy the DK1 or DK2 units but cv1was definitely an "eye opener".

 

Being cut off from everything is what I strive for! It's the coolest feeling ever. And it's achieved the most during the dusk missions. I don't know how but with the soothing lulling of the engines, the moonlight, the glowing greens on the dashboard - it's the most separation from the real world I've ever felt!  And I feel sad whenever I need to leave that world...