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DetCord12B

The Hs-129 and the OMFG Factor!

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The crap plane mentality isn't for everyone to be sure. I hear what you're saying though.

 

I admit, I haven't spent a lot of time with the Hs129 just yet. I'm slowly working my way through all of the aircraft. It can be frustrating when the aircraft doesn't perform and you face pretty desperate odds just to bring the crate home without losing something important.

 

I'll be giving it a go soon enough and maybe I'll be just as frustrated.

Edited by ShamrockOneFive

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If you're dealing with AAA, you drop your 50kg bombs (ideally the AB bomb containers, which we don't have) on it to take it out. There's no point in flying sustained attacks under AAA fire.

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In the career the HS 129s usually kill a few trucks and tanks, but invariably fall prey to AA. Every mission where there were HS 129s in the air, even in the distance, has a few of them downed by AA. 

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I'm wanting to like the Hs 129 in SP, but it's just crazy hard to survive in it. Seems like every time I'm shot down, it's due to my right hand engine being shot out. The most I've lasted so far in a career with it is...2 missions. :mellow: The way the enemy fighters come blazing in, sometimes before our escort fighters take off, doesn't help, either. 

 

Going to try another one on Easy difficulty mode (so far all of my tries have been on the Moderate level) to see if I can have any more success.

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1 minute ago, LukeFF said:

Going to try another one on Easy difficulty mode (so far all of my tries have been on the Moderate level) to see if I can have any more success.

That is the way I was going, too. When flying the duck, I don't want to fly a fighter career. In easy difficulty you also get attacked sometimes, but it is much easier to handle. And I suppose the AAA is not as fatal, too.

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1 hour ago, Yogiflight said:

That is the way I was going, too. When flying the duck, I don't want to fly a fighter career. In easy difficulty you also get attacked sometimes, but it is much easier to handle. And I suppose the AAA is not as fatal, too.

 

Yep, I just ran a mission on Easy difficulty and found it much more like the reports I've read from veteran accounts - flak still something to be aware of, and enemy fighters kept away from my flight by the escorts. 

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35 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

and enemy fighters kept away from my flight by the escorts. 

That is not always the case, but you can pretty easily outturn them, until your escort helps you, or you shoot them down yourself.

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3 hours ago, Diggun said:

Anyone who can get the duck off the ground has my undying admiration

 

It is a matter of proper technique:

1) set props to 20% pitch

2) set mixture to 100%

3) lower the flaps

4) activate boost

5) max the throttle

HS-129 will shoot straight like an arrow (at most minor rudder correction, or two, will be needed), I find it much less twitchy than single-engined fighters when taking off.

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20 hours ago, 7.GShAP/Silas said:

 

This just isn't true.  I fly ground attackers/bombers 95% of the time online and do it with success and have a ton of fun.  Where I fly there is also a dynamic front.  But the Hs-129 by its nature was not the best tool for the job, just the only one that could be cobbled together with the leftovers in the toybox.  It was never used in support of a spearhead of ground forces(at least not without total air superiority) .  It was used to attack Soviet ground forces during incursions into Axis territory with no enemy fighters present or kept at a distance by friendly fighter units.

 

In other words, the environment where the Hs-129 is NOT a second choice is difficult to cultivate, especially online where enemy tanks or dug in ground forces are typically going to be in... enemy territory.  You just need an absence of enemy fighters or powerful fighter escort and have the personal skills to deal with AA fire.

I can't tell if it's true or not, nor I see any point in arguing over it. You know better how it is since you fly and I'm not.

But I can't help to notice that we actually may be in misunderstanding, another words I was not implying that you can't do well attacking ground targets nowadays.

Based on what I've seen so far on forum and youtube, I was just implying that nothing really changed in a way that "fighter thing" is still strongest in momentum, ground attacking or flying bombers come second. And I feel it shouldn't be that way...

Now if I'm wrong about this, I'd actually be very happy.:)

 

19 hours ago, Haza said:

Dkoor,

 

I would strongly suggest that you try the Pe-2, as I'm sure that the Pe-2 in a few servers gets just as many PK's on Luftwaffe players as do the entire blue team combined get against VVS, plus the Pe-2 is able to get to a from the targets, so it perhaps would be ideal for you to try in MP. 

If only the other Allies had purchased the Pe-2, I'm sure that WW2 would have been finished in '43.

Hehe mate I've seen some indications of Pe-2's uberness.

But believe me, I can't care less of it, in all this time playing flight sims my thoughts never really went "go for the best aircraft and win".

I fly/play to enjoy myself, and to burden myself with flying only superior crates/winning, I'd kinda defeat the point of my playing in the first place.

Edited by dkoor

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4 hours ago, dkoor said:

I can't tell if it's true or not, nor I see any point in arguing over it. You know better how it is since you fly and I'm not.

But I can't help to notice that we actually may be in misunderstanding, another words I was not implying that you can't do well attacking ground targets nowadays.

Based on what I've seen so far on forum and youtube, I was just implying that nothing really changed in a way that "fighter thing" is still strongest in momentum, ground attacking or flying bombers come second. And I feel it shouldn't be that way...

Now if I'm wrong about this, I'd actually be very happy.:)

 

 

Yeah, you're right about that and I agree, it shouldn't be that way.

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Starting to learn this bird but having a few issues that maybe some of you can help me with...

  1. Boost. Even though I have both engines selected, whenever I activate boost it only kicks in on the first engine
  2. Mixture. I know that I need to have the mixture at full when I start, then I lower it one notch to takeoff and then down to around 50% after take off so I get rid of the black smoke. But when I select and deselect the engines the mixture get stuck and there seems to be no way I can adjust it after that.

Thanks!

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6 minutes ago, frosen said:

Boost. Even though I have both engines selected, whenever I activate boost it only kicks in on the first engine

 

That can't be possible. You have to have both engines selected in order to activate boost, as it's a single lever on the left-hand panel.

 

7 minutes ago, frosen said:

Mixture. I know that I need to have the mixture at full when I start, then I lower it one notch to takeoff and then down to around 50% after take off so I get rid of the black smoke. But when I select and deselect the engines the mixture get stuck and there seems to be no way I can adjust it after that.

 

Again, you have to have both engines selected in order to adjust the mixture. :) 

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1 hour ago, LukeFF said:

 

That can't be possible. You have to have both engines selected in order to activate boost, as it's a single lever on the left-hand panel.

 

 

Again, you have to have both engines selected in order to adjust the mixture. :) 

Thanks, I solved the boost things... I stupidly enough had only assigned the boost key to the first engine but not the second.

 

The mixture thing is weird though and seems like a bug. As long as I don't deselect/select engines the it works flawlessly.

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2 hours ago, frosen said:

then down to around 50% after take off so I get rid of the black smoke

It's already gone at 80%, 50 is good for normal flight, go to 80 in combat :)

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Changing mixture from 80% to 50% makes no difference as it is still in the range of auto rich.

 

The 4 mixture settings do have quite a margin for each setting:  I use top speed to see the difference in mixture settings. (No mods, 100% fuel, Stalingrad autumn, 300 m start)

 

Start: (100%) 100-83%  Top speed 340 km/h

 

Auto Rich:  (66%)  82-50%:  348 km/h

 

Lean: (33%)  49-16%:  337 km/h

 

Stop: (0%)  15-0%

 

Simple start now:  Move mixture to 66%, hit e.  Fly 99% of the time in this setting.  100% only to cool the engines; 33% to save on fuel during cruise.

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On 4/21/2018 at 1:03 AM, Finkeren said:

Thing is: The RLM had nothing else to turn to. In 1941 they desperately needed a dedicated ground attack aircraft (or felt the need for it at least) The original contest had turned out only two designs that were passable, one from Henschel and one from Focke Wulf, and both were rather terrible, the Henschel coming in both overweight and underpowered compared to design specifications. The second prototype flew into the ground when it couldn’t recover from a shallow dive. 

 

The B model we have in the sim was actually a marked improvement over the initial production run because it swapped the pitiful Argus engines for the French Gnome-Rhônes, which increased the available horsepower by more than 50%, so you can imagine how bad it must have been.

 

Still, it was all the Luftwaffe had to go with until they finally abandoned the idea of having a dedicated cannon armed ground attack aircraft - as most other air forces did in the later parts on the war (except of course the VVS) 

FIFTY PERCENT?!

Its.. FIFTY PERCENT stronger... NOW?!

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Shame really. I like to fly slow heavy underpowered planes.

But yet to find a way to return to base.

 

I like it and like the PO 2, both give me tremendous  pleasure when flying them

but I havent yet found a mission I can do with them

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44 minutes ago, Sublime said:

FIFTY PERCENT?!

Its.. FIFTY PERCENT stronger... NOW?!

 

Yup, prototypes were powered by a 460 HP Argus engines (vs. 700 HP Gnome Rhone of production versions).

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47 minutes ago, Sublime said:

FIFTY PERCENT?!

Its.. FIFTY PERCENT stronger... NOW?!

It was just a test version for testing on the front, of course it's not perfect. Panthers were not either on their first combat day. There was only 28 planes in A version.

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The Hs-129 is a tremendous gun platform. You can shred soft targets for days...but you will need days...so some red fighter will come by and kill you

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1 hour ago, Grim said:

The Hs-129 is a tremendous gun platform. You can shred soft targets for days...but you will need days...so some red fighter will come by and kill you

:blink: if you know how to use it you can easly take out T34s, also mobility kills on kv1s are also very easy to get if you know how. This is bad plane for normal multiplayer but it's nice for SP or coop where not every mission has enemy fighters all over the map. On the other side it's not meant to fly for 10min over the target and shoot at everything possible, you fly, shoot at 3 or so tanks and go home, in sp you have some AI hs129 flying with you so getting few tank kills more.

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13 hours ago, CrazyDuck said:

 

Yup, prototypes were powered by a 460 HP Argus engines (vs. 700 HP Gnome Rhone of production versions).

 

13 hours ago, InProgress said:

It was just a test version for testing on the front, of course it's not perfect. Panthers were not either on their first combat day. There was only 28 planes in A version.

Yes yes quite..

 

50 PERCENT?!?!?!

;)

Seriously everything else aside..

What was the boost setting? A feldwebel leans out and starts fanning air?

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2 hours ago, InProgress said:

:blink: if you know how to use it you can easly take out T34s, also mobility kills on kv1s are also very easy to get if you know how. This is bad plane for normal multiplayer but it's nice for SP or coop where not every mission has enemy fighters all over the map. On the other side it's not meant to fly for 10min over the target and shoot at everything possible, you fly, shoot at 3 or so tanks and go home, in sp you have some AI hs129 flying with you so getting few tank kills more.

 

True, I've also read that during the war, depending on the situation, they were only making one single strafing pass per flights to increase their chances to return back to base. 

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IMO Duck isn't a great plane but it can do his job.
I guess the mostly MP kills when flying on him is because: [1] There wasn't aerial superiority in attack area, [2] Flying as a lonewolf, [3] AAA in the attack area.

I believe that flying with escort and after get down AAA, he can do his job.

I'm not telling that it is easy but in MP we see lots of lonewolfs not playing the objetives and not in a common VoIP place such TeamSpeak or Discord.

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After Id´ing your target only do ONE attack run. Do this attack run while flying in homeward direction. That is your best life insurance. If you survive, you will rack up your score slowly but constantly. The important part is to survive your attack run.

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The Hs. 129 is massively underpowered for its size. All the high power engines went into fighters and the 129 got the ones that were left.

 

And quite honestly, on paper the engine power it had was adequate for what it was supposed to do - fly the largest gun you could fit to it around and shoot mehtul bawkses.

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Posted (edited)

I thought the HS129 was ridiculously underpowered too until Plurp got me squared away.  Now, I'm really enjoying flying it - to the point I tried my first-ever Scripted Campaign, "Panzerknacker" which focuses on the mighty Duck, and I'm diggin' it.

 

It's really about keeping those engines in their sweet spot of the RPM powerband in addition to making sure they are not drowning in gas on the Rich setting.  So in addition to getting the mixture down to 66% right after takeoff,  the first thing I do during the startup ritual is turn that godforsaken auto prop pitch off and set it to Manual.  After taking off and quickly getting the airframe cleaned up and disengaging boost, I set throttle to 92%, reduce mixture to 66%, and then start working the RPM down slowly in gradual increments to 55% - 60%.  This is done in stages as the craft builds speed, keeping the RPM close to 2,350 or so, just below where you get the "Combat Mode" icon in technochat.  It's a continuous process of waiting for the technochat message to show up, dialing back the RPM control a couple of clicks to make it go away, lather, rinse, repeat. By the time speed stabilizes you should be near around 286 - 307 kph depending on loadout (unofficial observation on my part) and she will be rarin' to climb to go!

 

It's very much like how you have to keep smaller displacement engines with "Peaky" torque curves  constantly in their powerband through correct gear selection.  In racebikes it's referred to as keeping the engine "on the boil".  On the Duck, the prop pitch is our gear selection (as it is on any plane). 

 

There's a certain "Thrum-Thrum" sound you'll get from the props and engines when they're in this sweet spot.  Get in the habit of looking at the RPM gauge on either engine cowling and memorizing the needle position for that sweet spot of 2,350 -  right around the 2:00 or 2:30 going by memory - and turning on the instrument lights will make reading the gauge easier in almost all situations.  In combat when you're too busy to look sideways at the gauge, if your speed gets low just increase pitch until you hear that "Thrum Thrum" from the props again and you'll know you're close enough.  I've read on here that some folks go to Auto prop pitch in combat, but all I see that doing is maxing out the RPM and putting more strain on the engines while the props take smaller bites out of the air.   It's like automatically downshifting to the lowest possible gear - great if you've slowed down to a crawl but I don't think it's the optimum default approach. 

 

To that point:  Lastly, fly SMOOTH and stay off that damn rudder, as any slideslip on that locomotive-design slab of an airframe induces tons of drag and slows the Duck right the heck down.  To go back to the small-cc race bike (or car) analogy, you have to take it through the curves smoothly and retain/maintain that speed you worked on building up. 

 

As the saying goes, "It's more fun to ride a slow bike fast than a fast bike slow" and the Duck is a perfect example of how you CAN go fast(er) and have a lotta fun doing it at the same time. 

 

 

Edited by Stoopy
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What still surprises me to the present day is how easy it is to kill a Henschel.

Deliberately overstated, when you sneeze hard, a wing will fall off, whereas with an IL-2 you can cut a row of trees at the loss of one aileron.

 

Seriously I find it much harder to down a Macchi than a Henschel - just talking about what amount of hits each plane can take before meeting the elephant.

On our FAC server we've got blue and red bases evenly covered by AAA, and we have AI mudmovers visiting these bases regularly.

When I let two Ace level AI Henschels attack the red base, it's 50/50 whether they'll get to drop their bombs at all or die a split second after AAA opens fire (usually by losing a wing).

The best I've ever seen was one single Henschel that got to turn in for the 3rd pass when getting killed.

For red I can use a pair of IL-2, Pe-2 or a mix of both, and they can circle the blue base for 10 minutes or more, taking endless hits from the Flak 38 standing there without suffering lethal damage.

 

I haven't been in either of these planes in WW2 myself so can't say whether this is what it's supposed to be, but I can't help myself from being slightly surprised that a plane built for purpose like the Henschel is turns out to be that weak.

 

:drinks:

Mike

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Wings in general tend to fall off too easy. At least in first edition of the plane. I personally felt that way in IL 2 back when I  was active in MP. 

There are no advantages flying HS 129 in this game, a 110 can do the job better.

But still I cant help liking it. Flying low the bullet proof tub you are sitting in wont help you. Your dead. But watching the few videos that exist I can see why such disadvantage in this game exist. 

They attack from altitude. If you do that in this game you are spotted and killed. Same with the tracers. If you fire guns you are seen from great distances, if you only drop bomb your not. 

I expirienced this many times.

Go in with a stuka or pe 2 drop bombs and leave and your fine. A couple of strafing runs with planes based on their guns like il2 or hs 129 your spotted and killed 

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I've got a hang on this bird too, as with many other underdogs.

As for the tracers you're absolutely right, tracers give away your position immediately.

Don't know whether the huge difference in visibility between the plane itself, exhaust smoke, bomb smokepiles and tracers is physically correct, but we'll have to deal with it anyway.

The problem here is that you can be careful as much as you want, if there's a single AAA gun down where you drop your bomb, it will sufficiently "illuminate" your activities for a horde of 109s and 190s to dive on you - online that is.

In summary, I totally agree that from a survivability point of view, any other plane will serve you better.

The 110 will, the 190 will, and the 262 with bombs definitely will.

 

:drinks:

Mike

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