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Radio from flight leader doesn't tell me anything

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Playing my first campaign (with il2) and as a number 6 in squadron i'm following the flight leader.

But i'm finding that that part is lacking in some kind of polish.

The leader doesn't declare ground targets or when to actually attack (they announce that "stork go find targets chatter" and then the AI, a couple of kilometers away starts the attack (knowing instantly where to hit) meanwhile i'm stuck searching for targets

Also no declaration that you are under attack by fighters? Whats up with that?

Its basically silence from flight leader i haven't yet heard a useful radio instruction in 4-5 missions.

No repeat attack radio commands, no return to base commands, things just happen

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I agree.  From a player's perspective, the AI speech routines are the very worst I have seen in any computer flight simulation.  

 

You will be doing something else, and hear a lengthy back and forth between a pilot and the controller.   Only to discover that in a complete lapse of game design, it is your own pilot who is talking and who has reached some separate agreement with his masters on the ground.  

 

Your own own avatar should not speak.  Good game designers know this.   You will be flying peacefully, keeping your own lookout, and your own pilot will suddenly announce that he is engaging an enemy fighter to the southwest. Thank you for spoiling the moment Boris...

 

Your avatar will chant Target Destroyed for every member of a crew that bails out of an aircraft.  He will ask permission to land when you don't want to.  He and his friends will say "Attacking Enemy Fighter, Its Close" over and over again until you want to put your head through the wall.  

 

The AI do not call for help.   Do not say when they are coming to another's aid.  They do not say if they are taking hits or bailing out.   They won't say if they are with you, or if they are doing anything of note.  They don't take triumph in a kill, or concern over a loss.  Their leader does not tell them to keep formation, keep their eyes peeled, or watch for fighters flak when attacking a target.  They don't confirm another's kill.  They don't warn each other of attack...

 

The separate static samples are intrusive at best, and explosive at their worst.  The dialogue is robotic, unnatural, crushingly repetitive and wholly inadequate.   I sincerely hope that the whole system is scrapped and the developers replace it with something better before the Bodenplatte expansion is concluded.  

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Yeah if I understood Russian I would be pulling my hair out I reckon.

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6 hours ago, Feathered_IV said:

-snip-

 

Very good post, I wholeheartedly agree with everything you stated.

 

This simulation is almost beyond great in about every aspect. The only thing that feels just way too unconvincing to me is the voice chatter on the radio, which sounds generic, robotic and often leads to confusion because your own pilot is actually talking on the radio as well.

 

Maybe my memory is playing tricks on me, but I feel like the voice acting and the way the exclamations were put together was better executed in the classic installment of IL-2 (not talking about using voice-pack mods here, by the way). The only thing that bugged me there was that the voices sounded too clear, as if they were not using 1940's radio communication, but today's instead.

 

But apart from that, everything else about the voice system was better:

- your own pilot didn't speak

- multiple voice actors per nation

- more specific, useful information given

- 'emotional' voices: When shooting down an enemy plane the pilots made joyful exclamations, when being shot down the fear in their voices actually sounded real when they announced to bail out. Especially liked when the AI warned friendlies, like saying 'You're on fire, bail out!'. It just felt more vivid and believable.

 

I really don't want to sound ungrateful, which I feel I do right now. I'm sorry for that, since apart from this aspect I love this sim. And of course the voice system is nothing that would ever keep me away from playing, neither from recommending the sim to other people.

 

I just feel like there's quite some room for improvement here. To make the best flight sim even better.

Edited by Fritz_X
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For me the most frustrating is when I am leading a flight and don't see the enemy while my wingmen do. Without a warning (not even a "repeat please") they pull off and attack leaving me cruising alone in enemy skies. It's bad enough that they divert from the intended mission goal but they do it without giving any vocal clues about what is going on and what they are up to.

Edited by claw
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56 minutes ago, claw said:

For me the most frustrating is when I am leading a flight and don't see the enemy while my wingmen do. Without a warning (not even a "repeat please") they pull off and attack leaving me cruising alone in enemy skies. It's bad enough that they divert from the intended mission goal but they do it without giving any vocal clues about what is going on and what they are up to.

 

You sure?  I always get 'Stork 2 engaging target to North East 3km'      I also have the English voice pack so I don't have to read it in text.

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3 hours ago, 56RAF_Roblex said:

 

You sure?  I always get 'Stork 2 engaging target to North East 3km'      I also have the English voice pack so I don't have to read it in text.

hmm....perhaps I'm not paying enough attention or am unaware of my own call sign :wacko: I'll be more attentive next time. 

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The whole radio command system needs a complete revamp... something that at least runs along similar lines to the original IL2.

Plus, couple that with a volume control for the radio... at the moment, I can't raise the volume for the radio alone without raising  the bloody engine sounds as well  :(

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Totally agreed, it needs to be revamped as it drives me crazy even with the English mod. I have considered putting my head through the monitor, but it just costs to much to replace. They have improved the whole Box series SO MUCH, it would be a shame to not fix this.;)

 

S!Blade<><

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All of these observations are pretty accurate in my experience. Why do I hear my pilot talking away when I have no ability to do more than  communicate with a few useless hand signals unless I am flying lead?  Communications like the AI in general needs a lot of help. Maybe before any new planes or game expansion? 

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Honestly that’s something I can see coming with a major release like BoBp. Then it would be rolled back to the rest of the game and the devs wouldn’t need to halt work on their moneymakers.

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1 hour ago, RedKestrel said:

Honestly that’s something I can see coming with a major release like BoBp. Then it would be rolled back to the rest of the game and the devs wouldn’t need to halt work on their moneymakers.

 

That would certainly be a sensible approach assuming there were resources to do it all. 

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The radio system is one of those few remaining things about the game that still bugs me. Besides the things already mentioned, we need to have a proper radio channel selection system, so we don't end up hearing radio comms from every other friendly airplane on the map. Historically, the Soviets (all their problems with radios notwithstanding) would have their bombers/sturmoviks & their escorts on one frequency, and that's it.

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9 hours ago, claw said:

hmm....perhaps I'm not paying enough attention or am unaware of my own call sign :wacko: I'll be more attentive next time. 

 

Wingmen.jpg

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I agree the radio chatter is bad.

It needs work and i hope it will become better in future.

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4 hours ago, LukeFF said:

The radio system is one of those few remaining things about the game that still bugs me. Besides the things already mentioned, we need to have a proper radio channel selection system, so we don't end up hearing radio comms from every other friendly airplane on the map. Historically, the Soviets (all their problems with radios notwithstanding) would have their bombers/sturmoviks & their escorts on one frequency, and that's it.

 

Agree, oftentimes I find the chatter confusing as it really does not apply to my flight.

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Each flight didn't have it's own frequency, once radio silence had been broken you would have heard other flights in your squadron making calls etc, I can live with that...

It's not having the ability to turn up the RT volume so I can hear what is going on that annoys me.

However, someone in the mods section is looking into that at the moment, so that may get sorted soon.

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just adding my voice to this,

as much i like BOx, the radio messages system is one of the less useful and interesting i ever get from all sims i played, in flight communications add much realism and inter action in SP mode. Pretty sure when they will get there it will be very well done tough.

Remember some of  USNF messages from wingmen ? (...is on you six), (...i m running on fumes) or  (...he s on my tail) etc... i miss to have to take some actions after a wingman message

 

 

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2 hours ago, Trooper117 said:

Each flight didn't have it's own frequency, once radio silence had been broken you would have heard other flights in your squadron making calls etc, I can live with that...

 

German flights most certainly had their own separate frequencies. That's well-documented. 

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12 hours ago, LukeFF said:

The radio system is one of those few remaining things about the game that still bugs me. Besides the things already mentioned, we need to have a proper radio channel selection system, so we don't end up hearing radio comms from every other friendly airplane on the map. Historically, the Soviets (all their problems with radios notwithstanding) would have their bombers/sturmoviks & their escorts on one frequency, and that's it.

 

I'm hoping that for Bodenplatte we have the option to just turn it all off.

On one hand I have hopes that we'll have better voice acting for American and British radio calls...on the other hand I want to place custom recordings in my campaign. That's  not going to work out too well though if the stock radio voices are stepping all over my custom ones. (Wrong call  signs, different voice for the flight lead, etc)

 

I've handed over proper 9th Airforce call signs and I do hope they're utilized.

No "Stork, Hawk" etc - that doesn't work for 9th AF.

 

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In the Career mode I am quite happy to hear that Wingman four in my flight has spotted an enemy 5k to the NorthWest.  I am also happy to hear that another squadron nearby is engaged in a dogfight so I can keep my eyes peeled.   What I do find useless is when I am playing online and the briefing is confirming that the wind is blowing from the North-East yet the radio is telling one of its imaginary squadrons 'Winds from the South-East'.

 

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If you want your wing leader to spot ground targets for you, it ain't going to happen.  Read the mission brief instead and look at where the targets are located on the map to get an idea as to what to hit.  Your wing leader will just tell you when to engage which means you are in the area the targets are.

 

Would be nice for a few commands as a flight member, like where are you to wing leader and clear my 6 / Help!!:biggrin:

 

Find the radio in off line to be more useful than most people online with Chat.  Few use team speak and few will engage in chat either.  Such is the joy of online, amongst other things.  Finding campaign to be a better option be it built in or PWCG.  Maybe I need to look into co-op online instead.

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It's the worst thing about flying co-op missions.  I often lead my friends in a flight of A20s, and my AI mystery radio man is ordering me to "follow the mission plan" etc...   just silly.

Then after we plaster our target and RTB I cannot ask for landing clearance for my/our damaged crates, yet some AI units are given clearance ahead of us and their leader does talk to the tower...

 

And then there is waiting for that bloody green flare to take off.   We are all formed up and ready to go and we sit, and sit, and sit...   Maddening at best, so I just go, which throws off timings of any AI in our flight, though I've learned to never count on them as they usually crash into each other on the ground anyway.

Edited by BlitzPig_EL

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Flare timing is an easy logic fix in the editor.

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6 hours ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

Then after we plaster our target and RTB I cannot ask for landing clearance for my/our damaged crates, yet some AI units are given clearance ahead of us and their leader does talk to the tower...

 

That is something I'd like to see in a remodeled radio system - the ability to request priority landing clearance when my plane is badly damaged.

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15 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

 

That is something I'd like to see in a remodeled radio system - the ability to request priority landing clearance when my plane is badly damaged.

Just land and try to pull up near the Pilot Mess so you can quickly run in and grab a drink to steady those nerves.

 

Not like the career will penalise you for it. ))

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I strongly agree with Blitze and am glad communication concerns are being aired.  It would be great to get info from the flight leader and/or wingmen, like report contacts, where are you (on the map), "break" etc.  It would be fantastic to hear more urgency in the audio too.

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The radio system definitely needs a revamp, with either more languages to listen to or putting the comm text outside the hud system that eats 20 FPS during VR and also causes stuttering turning on and off during the career. I actually find this as important if not more then AI behavior.

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One of the most annoying things is, when my avatar tells me, that he attacks an enemy aircraft. I always think to myself certainly not now, and fly on as if nothing happened. I don't want my speaker tell me, that I am going to attack an aircraft, that I didn't even see, and most times, it is not me who is attacking, but the enemy, who is attacking me. So let one of my squadmates tell me, that I am under attack.

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That's some awfully sophisticated coding that you're calling for there Sammy.

 

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1 hour ago, Sambot88 said:

...

1.) The ability to ask the flight leader for a bearing to his position if you get lost.

...

 

If you don't know where you are, why do you expect anyone else to?

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CFS's made 10 even 20 years ago had comms that included an ability to ask for the positions of others or to base or to enemy contacts. In fact games like BoB had very good comms which included a fair amount of useful stuff and just background stuff that made the simulation more immersive. Comms with leader, comms with wingmen, comms with flight control and with bases have all been thoughtfully included in past gems. So stop,  It isn't that hard to do, just takes a commitment to the sp experience. 

Edited by TheSNAFU
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I was commenting on this topic with my wingman tonight on a co op server.  We tripped over the main battle in the end but it took a while as the ai gave no indication of it's location while under attack, etc.   I'd love to see some work on this area.  Still a great sim, just a tweak here would help alot.

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-a good start that would not  be so much of work,, i guess

 

-to not repeat 4 times AI is destroyed.

-Since there is no tight formations and every plane of the flight are louse and go  left and right or turning in circles... it is not easy to know where the enemy was spotted when a wingman say enemy at 8 o clock per example, cardinal directions are better

-and one little thing it tickle me a bit but it can be useful to not waste precious ammo i admit, is if you kill a enemy straight in the cockpit and the plane dont smoke or no apparent damage,  there is always  a wingman with excellent sight to say the enemy is down...  there could be better triggers i think, plane integrity, a fire , bail out ...

Edited by Lemon
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5 hours ago, TheSNAFU said:

In fact games like BoB

 

Well, there's the difference - the command and control situation over the Channel and the UK was a far sight different than over the Eastern Front. Those fancy radar stations and advancing radio homing systems simply didn't exist in the East, for the most part. 

41 minutes ago, Sambot88 said:

The idea that the pilots (if they are equipped with encrypted radios at all) wouldn't be constantly updating eachother on their positions and surroundings is a lot less realistic than being able to ask for a bearing to your flight leader.

 

Constantly yapping on the radio was / is frowned upon, for a number of reasons, including:

  1. Giving away your presence to the enemy.
  2. Preventing the flight leader(s) from controlling their subordinates.

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9 hours ago, Walrusboy said:

I actually find this as important if not more then AI behavior.

IMO radio comms are not independent from the AI. The AI code certainly has decision points (for changing course, attacking, changing target, flying defensively, RTBing, etc.), and these are the points where comms can be assigned to. On the other hand, you cannot assign a comm to a non-existent decision point.

 

7 minutes ago, Sambot88 said:

 it would just be that the callsigns are made a little more clear. Not really a big deal though.

Yep, it would be also great to learn on mission start who I am.

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2 minutes ago, sniperton said:

IMO radio comms are not independent from the AI. The AI code certainly has decision points (for changing course, attacking, changing target, flying defensively, RTBing, etc.), and these are the points where comms can be assigned to. On the other hand, you cannot assign a comm to a non-existent decision point.

 

Yep, it would be also great to learn on mission start who I am.

True. When I mentioned AI Behavior, I was thinking mostly along the lines of the standard complaints on individual AI, i.e. diving into the ground for no reason. But certainly the comms/AI for the wing as a whole could use some improvement. From what I've watched of campaigns online, just a way to tell your fellow pilots to attack the fighters who've bounced our airfield as we arrived at the end of our sortie instead of happily turning their nav lights on and lining up to land would be a godsend.

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The Russian radio system at the beginning of the war was bad! Or did say the allies (other than Russians and Germans.) how for the most part did use radios in all their airplanes. 

Some Russian radios for non-leader’s planes where receivers only, here again is this reality?!

Later in the war all Russian planes where equip whit radio both receivers and senders and the results in air combat did follow an ascending course in their favor.

Now in the game, yes the chatter all in Russian for me, non-Russian, speaking person is quiet difficult to follow and often incomplete. Why incomplete? Never or not often a situation awareness message, like" there is someone on your six" or bandits high", etc... but I must say the time I should read this sort of messages it most of the time be to late to act on them.

So this one point to be revised in the game in English, English speaking messages even if not historically correct in a game should help a lot. :salute:

This isstill as near to a simulation this can get thank to the team.:salute:

Edited by senseispcc
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1 hour ago, senseispcc said:

The Russian radio system at the beginning of the war was bad! Or did say the allies (other than Russians and Germans.) how for the most part did use radios in all their airplanes. 

Some Russian radios for non-leader’s planes where receivers only, here again is this reality?!

Later in the war all Russian planes where equip whit radio both receivers and senders and the results in air combat did follow an ascending course in their favor.

Now in the game, yes the chatter all in Russian for me, non-Russian, speaking person is quiet difficult to follow and often incomplete. Why incomplete? Never or not often a situation awareness message, like" there is someone on your six" or bandits high", etc... but I must say the time I should read this sort of messages it most of the time be to late to act on them.

So this one point to be revised in the game in English, English speaking messages even if not historically correct in a game should help a lot. :salute:

This isstill as near to a simulation this can get thank to the team.:salute:

 

The much better radios was a major factor in why the Russian pilots liked the P39 and did so well with it.  For the first time they could effectively co-ordinate their fights.

 

On the subject of it taking too long to read the messages,  have you not seen the mod to change the voices to English (or German?)    It works.

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16 hours ago, LukeFF said:

 

Well, there's the difference - the command and control situation over the Channel and the UK was a far sight different than over the Eastern Front. Those fancy radar stations and advancing radio homing systems simply didn't exist in the East, for the most part. 

 

Yep true but my point was the comms were much more complicated than what is offered in this game and it was done a long long time ago. So...it stands to reason that believable comms for an east front game would require less effort/time than what was done in BoB or other great games and again it comes down more to a commitment to a full out immersive sp experience. 

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