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Female Pilots

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46 minutes ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

Nappingman you are so far from reality that's not even funny. That's like trying to "bring female interest to axes". Or "fishing knives". 

 

It just won't work. Exceptions mark the rule.

 

1950s called, they want their gender theory back.

And I think Napping-Man's the expert here on what his wife likes or does not like, or is willing to try.

 

I don't know about exceptions, but Scharfi is certainly an exceptional pilot. Ask her whether or not she exhibits any "female interest" towards warbirds and flight sims...

 

 

Edited by Habsburger
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I prepared this cloze test for my students ... :lol:, so they learn about a famous female aviator.

Fill in the blanks with one suitable word. Do not repeat answers and there are 5 words you do NOT need to use (distractors) :umnik2:

 

The White Rose of Stalingrad

Лидия Владимировна Литвяк, Lydia Vladimirovna Litvyak, also known as Lily Litvak, was (1) __________ in Moscow, Russia. At age 14, she entered a club of flight enthusiasts, and by 15 she was piloting small aircraft. In the late 1930s, she (2) __________ a flight instructor license.

After Germany invaded the Soviet Union, Litvyak attempted to join a military aviation unit, but was (3) __________ turned down for lack of experience; she forged her records by (4) __________ an additional 100 hours of flight time, and was eventually admitted into the 586th Fighter Regiment consisted of all female pilots. She trained in a Yak-1 fighter with a white lily (mistaken for a rose) painted (5) __________ the side of the fuselage. In the summer of 1942, the 586th Fighter Regiment flew over Saratov, Russia, (6) __________ the blonde-haired, grey-eyed young pilot flew her first combat flight. In Sep 1942, she was transferred into the mixed-sex 437th Fighter Regiment at Stalingrad in southern Russia. Her chauvinistic commander initially refused to let her fly, but finally backed down largely (7) __________ to the demands of the war. On 13 Sep 1942, she flew her second combat mission in a La-5 fighter; she shot down a Ju 88 bomber and an unidentified fighter, marking her first and second kills of her career. She quickly gained the nick name "the White Rose of Stalingrad", referring to the mis-identified lily found on her training fighter.

In late 1942, Litvyak was transferred to the 9th Guards Fighter Regiment, and then very (8) __________ after, in Jan 1943, she was transferred again to the 296th Fighter Regiment, which was later renamed to the 73rd Guards Fighter Regiment. On 23 Feb she was awarded the Order of the Red Star. (9) __________ her combat career, she scored 11 solo kills and 3 shared kills. Many German pilots she shot down were in shock that they were shot down (10) __________ a woman. A German fighter ace shot down and captured outright refused to believe a woman had shot him down until he was brought before Litvyak, (11) __________ described to him the details of the dogfight that only the two pilots engaged in the combat would know. She was not invincible, (12) __________. She was shot down two or three times (22 Mar 1943, 16 Jul 1943, and possibly another time) and at least one time she sustained serious injury to her legs, but she refused to be sidelined.

In early 1943, Litvayk was made a junior lieutenant. On 1 Aug 1943, Litvyak flew a Yak-1b fighter on a combat mission. She was shot down by a group of eight German fighters. (13) __________ her body was not found, Soviet leadership assumed she was captured. Since Joseph Stalin had always believed that a captured Russian was to be automatically considered a traitor, she did (14) __________ receive the award of the Hero of the Soviet Union like some thought she deserved. Her remains were not found until 1979. On 6 May 1990, Russian President Mikhail Gorbachev (15) __________ granted her the Hero of the Soviet Union award with a posthumous promotion to the rank of senior lieutenant.

1. where

5. because

9. in

13. earned

17. won

2. by

6. who

10. not

14. finally

18. initially

3. born

7. due

11. during

15. adding

19. birth

4. which

8. shortly

12. before

16. however

20. on

Write your words here:

1.

 

2.

 

3.

4.

5.

6.

 

7.

 

8.

 

9.

 

10.

 

11.

 

12.

 

13.

 

14.         

15.      

Edited by PA_Spartan-
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Surprised we got to page two before anyone brought up Arianne Scharfi. At this point she must be pretty tired of being the poster-girl for female simmers in between having her gender questioned by fragile males, who seem to have a hard time grasping, that a penis isn’t a requirement for being able to use a joystick.

 

I wish a few more of our female community members would come out, so we can put the myth to rest, that this is a 99% sausage-fest.

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We DEFINITELY need to add some female pilot models! So, some enterprising modder needs to get on it. Also, I call dibs on the Snoopy model when it comes out.  ;)

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Scharfi scares me.  In a good way. Like a mix between Ygritte, Arya,  Brienne and Melisandre....:biggrin:

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It seems to me, that we haven't come very far yet in any true mutual understanding between genders?

Hey ho, here we go - what's 4 million years between friends? Happy evolution, mankind! :tease:

(Always wanted to use that Smiley!)

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While I would agree about not needing to be Male to fly I would also point out as you mentioned- 99% of pilots in this community are infact men.  Given such a low probability of a given pilot being a woman I would say its reasonable to question anyone claiming to be so.  However I'm sure it must be terribly annoying to hear the same tired questions, replies, and inevitable jokes.

 

von Luck

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Oh I wouldn't say that, after all the state of NY now recognises 31 genders. It's rather strange and amusing that some of our progressive friends keep telling others on the forum how obsessed with male reproductive parts they are. If women want to fly in flight Sims and are interested in World War II then good luck to them, I'm sure they would be welcome. Considering that flight sims tend to be fringe anyway, I don't think we're going to get inundated with masses of female pilots. Using finkeren's terminology we are pretty much dealing with a sausage fest.

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If it's not too much work for the developers then I'm all for it.  I mean, why not?


If you don't want to be a female pilot, then don't be. How would having the option of female pilots harm or impair the game in any way? Because some people around here don't want to see too many women in their virtual world? 

 

There were very few female pilots..so what? There were relatively few operational Me 262's, but I bet everyone wants the opportunity to fly them, right? 
 

 

 

 

Before anyone throws numbers of operational Me 262's at me just to claim that there were actually lots of Me 262's flying...stop. Just stop. I said relatively.

 

Edited by Leaf
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When I'm 'pretending' to fly a WWII aeroplane, I couldn't give a flying hoot if I'm supposed to be a woman pilot or a man.

We don't even see the pilot in the plane when you are in the cockpit.

This issue is such a low priority I can't even believe the dev's would consider it.

You can pretend to be whoever the hell you want to be when you are playing the game, man woman or even a flippin wildebeast if it takes your fancy.

All I can see is the usual agenda of 'poliical correctness' raising it's ugly head.

The only thing I can see that will include any kind of realism issue for the truly historical buffs, is the inclusion of women ground controllers voices in the radio menus, as Custard has already mentioned.

All the rest of it when it comes to piloting your imaginary plane, is what your little brain comes up with when you are playing the game... for instance, in my Spitfire campaign, I imagine that I am an RAF Liaison Officer attached to a Russian squadron... I even fly with an RAF skin. I could just as easily pretend  I was Sophia Loren attached to the bloody Russians if it comes to it  :o:

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I don't think you have to be a woman to enjoy a campaign or series of missions based on the exploits of the VVS' flying women. I'm neither German, Russian, nor Italian, yet I enjoy flying historical missions based on them. Heck, just the ability to have custom biographies and portraits in the campaign mode would probably go a long way for people who wanted to roleplay that

 

19 minutes ago, von-Luck said:

While I would agree about not needing to be Male to fly I would also point out as you mentioned- 99% of pilots in this community are infact men.  Given such a low probability of a given pilot being a woman I would say its reasonable to question anyone claiming to be so.  However I'm sure it must be terribly annoying to hear the same tired questions, replies, and inevitable jokes.

 

von Luck

 

I don't see why it's important enough to be worth questioning. If they shot you down, they shot you down, no sense getting hung up on the irrelevancies ;)

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3 hours ago, SCG_Tzigy said:

Small percentage of women in air combat overall but of great historical importance..pilots, mechanics, gunners etc

 

Very interesting reading, highly recommend...available on amazon kindle:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2017/aug/02/unwomanly-face-of-war-svetlana-alexievich-review

 

- mind boggling, especially the medics/combat nurses attached to tank units..had no idea

 

my favourite re female pilots is Over the Fields of Fire...also on Amazon

 

 

Thank you for the book tip, allow me to return the favor:

"Wings, Women, And War - Soviet Airwomen in WW II Combat" by R. Pennington

https://kansaspress.ku.edu/978-0-7006-1554-4.html

https://www.amazon.com/Wings-Women-War-Airwomen-Studies/dp/0700615547

Edited by Habsburger
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For a group that claims to be all for "historical accuracy", quite a few seem to be upset at the devs spending any time putting HISTORICALLY ACCURATE female squadrons into the sim.  Hell, there's been no official word on this, but some of you think it's a waste of developer time.  Like it's an affront to your masculinity or something.  It's not some evil "progressive agenda"...it's what REALLY happened. 

 

And sure it was a small percentage, but historically speaking, it's still kind of a big deal.  And isn't that why we play flight-sims?  For the "big-deal" moments?  What percentage of aviators shot down an enemy aircraft?  What percentage became aces?  We read the books, watch the movies, and pretend to live these virtual lives to experience these "exceptions to the rule".

 

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Thought there were a number of all female Pe-2 bomber squadrons

 

Cheers. Dakpilot

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10 minutes ago, Dakpilot said:

Thought there were a number of all female Pe-2 bomber squadrons

 

Cheers. Dakpilot

 

There was.

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8 minutes ago, 19//Rekt said:

Are people really so worried that white, largely Christian men will not be accorded enough "credit" in future editions of the history books for initiating and then dragging out the single greatest shitshow in the entire human experience?

When it comes to shitshows, I'm surprised the Mongol conquests don't get more of a mention TBH. Conservative estimates put the death toll at around  35-50 million people with the population of china effectively being halved. This was of course before the advent of modern weapons  Entire cities were put to sword and many regions were raised to the ground.

Getting back to the original topic though,  I'd still like to see soviet female pilots at some point.

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I can recommend A Dance with Death - Soviet Airwomen in World War II by Anne Noggle. There were certainly female IL-2 pilots, for example Anna Yegorova.

 

If it was not for the original work of Oleg Maddox & Co, I would not have known about this history, which has fascinated me ever since.

 

32 minutes ago, Napping-Man said:

And sure it was a small percentage, but historically speaking, it's still kind of a big deal.  And isn't that why we play flight-sims?  For the "big-deal" moments?  What percentage of aviators shot down an enemy aircraft?  What percentage became aces?  We read the books, watch the movies, and pretend to live these virtual lives to experience these "exceptions to the rule".

 

Napping-Man hits the nail on the head for me.

 

The exploits of these ladies deserve to be celebrated. I often make my PWCG pilots female; although PWCG refers to my pilot as "he" in a couple of unimportant places, it's easy to replace your pilot's photograph with your choice of Soviet Airwoman.

 

In contrast, the IL-2 BoX campaign is disappointingly gendered, forcing me to have a male back story and a male picture. I'd definitely support improvements in this area.

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36 minutes ago, 19//Rekt said:

 

If by "political correctness" you mean making some relatively small extra effort to celebrate (or merely acknowledge) the contributions of groups of people who have been largely forgotten, ignored, or deliberately minimized over the course of history, then fine I will wear that label. I don't find it ugly at all.

 

Honestly, the negative reaction of some members to the mere suggestion of adding a female pilot model, on the basis of its ahistoricity, baffles me a little bit. Are people really so worried that white, largely Christian men will not be accorded enough "credit" in future editions of the history books for initiating and then dragging out the single greatest shitshow in the entire human experience?

 

The idea of a female pilot model is of no great consequence to me...would be an interesting addition to recognize an innovative Soviet policy in a desperate time, but if it's too big a lift, fine. The response to it has been over the top IMO, and says a lot more about the baggage that people here are carrying than it does about the actual suggestion. 

 

With this, I'm out...

 

Women-sense-my-power-and-they-seek-the-life-essence.-I-do-not-avoid-women-Mandrake.-But-I-do-deny-them-my-essence.jpg.233929077e77422217919ae0557d7b0a.jpg

 

Actually you immediately jumped to whiteknight at my mere criticism of women pilots in this game. The mere criticism. You were being politically correct or sjwing; doing their job for them at the very least.  And many here find it almost impossible to say "no!" to the idea of over representing women in war.

 

Stop trying to pretend it`s anything else. People like you will ruin a great sim because you just must shove women into the sim so we`ll be hearing female pilots screaming every 5 minutes like they did in WW2- Not.

 

Women did make contributions on the Homefront, but they were a  tiny part of the war effort on the Frontlines. Men won the war, that`s simply the observable truth. Deal with it. But I know it`s a waste of time since everything these days has to have females shoved into it whether historically accurate or not. Who cares if women are over represented and men`s great achievements are belittled?

 

I`m sure they`ll shove women in even faster now because we dared speak out the reality. Go ahead, ruin your sim as most things which have been overtaken this way.

 

Dumb pics sucked off the net don`t make you look smart either.

 

p.s. I suppose they could do a one-off scripted campaign with a female Squadron for those boys who want to fly as female pilots, have at it, just keep it out of the main campaign, though I doubt it will be.

Edited by seafireliv
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5 minutes ago, seafireliv said:

 

... Who cares if women are over represented and men`s great achievements are belittled? ...

 

As it stands, 0% of pilots in game are female. Since 0% is less than the 3% figure folks have quoted above, women are currently under represented and their great achievements are belittled.

 

If you have such an issue with that, then have zero female pilots in game should bother you just as much as having too many.

 

36 minutes ago, 19//Rekt said:

 

If by "political correctness" you mean making some relatively small extra effort to celebrate (or merely acknowledge) the contributions of groups of people who have been largely forgotten, ignored, or deliberately minimized over the course of history, then fine I will wear that label. I don't find it ugly at all.

 

....

 

With this, I'm out...

 

Women-sense-my-power-and-they-seek-the-life-essence.-I-do-not-avoid-women-Mandrake.-But-I-do-deny-them-my-essence.jpg.233929077e77422217919ae0557d7b0a.jpg

 

And if I didn't love you before Rekt, I do now... my essence is all yours ;)

Edited by 19//curiousGamblerr
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1 hour ago, =CAF=xThrottle_Geek said:

We DEFINITELY need to add some female pilot models! So, some enterprising modder needs to get on it. Also, I call dibs on the Snoopy model when it comes out.  ;)

Did anyone say Snoopy model? I'm sold! :lol: thy pronouns are boy, good boy, and boyan. The gender is cool dog!:cool:

9 minutes ago, seafireliv said:

 

Actually you immediately jumped to whiteknight at my mere criticism of women pilots in this game. The mere criticism. You were being politically correct or sjwing; doing their job for them at the very least.  And many here find it almost impossible to say "no!" to the idea of over representing women in war.

 

Stop trying to pretend it`s anything else. People like you will ruin a great sim because you just must shove women into the sim so we`ll be hearing female pilots screaming every 5 minutes like they did in WW2- Not.

 

Women did make contributions on the Homefront, but they were a  tiny part of the war effort on the Frontlines. Men won the war, that`s simply the observable truth. Deal with it. But I know it`s a waste of time since everything these days has to have females shoved into it whether historically accurate or not. Who cares if women are over represented and men`s great achievements are belittled?

 

I`m sure they`ll shove women in even faster now because we dared speak out the reality. Go ahead, ruin your sim as most things which have been overtaken this way.

 

Dumb pics sucked off the net don`t make you look smart either.

 

p.s. I suppose they could a one-off scripted campaign with a female Squadrons for those boys who want to fly as female pilots, have at it, just keep it out of the main campaign, though I doubt it will be.

This. This makes sense. 

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To be honest; I don`t expect anything from anyone these days. I long gave up that people will have commonsense and logic. I`ve watched this sjwism and this identity politics twaddle just get worse and worse over the years and it`s not going to stop now. I simply speak up in the hope of putting some logic in there and to show that men haven`t totally stuck their heads in the sand. Some of us still have some balls.

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How does wanting female pilots in a video game equate to being a social justice warrior or belittling the achievements of male soldiers? 

I genuinely don't understand that. 

Personally I find social justice warriors a bit repellent, and certainly wouldn't want to be thrown in the same camp as them, but.. how does wanting female pilots in the game make anyone "politically correct" or a "SWJ"? Either I'm missing something or it's just a crass generalisation and jumping to conclusions.

 

For me, adding female pilots adds choice and variety. It's not a political statement.

Edited by Leaf
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I see the opposition is mostly about radio chatter. 

 

There were no female German combat pilots. There is no place on radio for that.

 

Period. 

 

That is correct. 

 

There are many Squadrons flying for historical immersion. 

 

If you want Russian female pilots introduce a night witches campaign, by all means, you're free to do that. You can even create it yourself. But don't pester the rest of the people with your SJW bs. SJWs are usually the most vocal, just like other crazy people, which is why they are usually ignored. Like a mumbling alconaut in the street. You pass by and ignore.  Lately however it has lead to some folks thinking, that the loudest would represent a majority within a group. That it would be demand. It's just virtue signaling actionism, nothing more. Devs would waste their time with such crazy horses. I know 2 entire Squadrons with each 20+members who'd just shake their heads in disbelief over this, but they regard the forums a monkey house for the most parts, so they don't move here. This entire discussion here is retarded (can I say that?, is that offensive as well now?, in German I'd say that without repurcussions). 

Edited by SCG_Fenris_Wolf
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Whiteknighting, sjws, forced diversity... I knew loads of older dudes frequent this forum, and they might have views on politics and young people that I might not agree with, but I hoped they would be too old to parrot Alt-Right buzzwords straight from Reddit.

 

Political correctness isn't about bullying us dudes, it's not some apocalyptic conspiracy against whiteness or manliness, it's about being decent and considerate and emphatetic towards other people. So no calling black people certain words, or making snide comments about women's brains, or throwing tantrums if someone criticizes you for saying these things. I think some politically correct people take things too far - there are misguided and fanatical people  in every camp - but social justice is an inherently good thing that we should strive towards.

 

Quote

People like you will ruin a great sim because you just must shove women into the sim so we`ll be hearing female pilots screaming every 5 minutes like they did in WW2- Not.

 

I don't think adding a female pilot as a character model plus some optional portraits and names for career mode would result in ruination for the sim. Might be tricky to add voicelines and make sure they trigger in right conditions (I know nothing about games development), but I don't see how it would be "shoving women in". The Night Witches fought over Kuban, Litviak flew over Stalingrad. I see no problem, as someone who loves history and gets annoyed by historical inaccuracies in movies.

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What a generally silly topic to argue/discuss.  Given the very low probability of any form of action on this why would people invest so much energy into such a slim prospect.  I salute the men and women who served their various roles in WWII but this topic isn't likely to result in anything worthy of their sacrifices. 

 

von Luck

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9 minutes ago, Habsburger said:

Political correctness isn't about bullying us dudes, it's not some apocalyptic conspiracy against whiteness or manliness, it's about being decent and considerate and emphatetic towards other people

That's not how the world works. Grow the hell up. 

9 minutes ago, Habsburger said:

but social justice is an inherently good thing that we should strive towards.

:lol:

 

 

There were no female German combat pilots. There is no place on radio for that.

 

Period. 

Edited by SCG_Fenris_Wolf
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12 minutes ago, Leaf said:

For me, adding female pilots adds choice and variety. It's not a political statement.

Leaf, I agree that adding female pilots adds choice and adds a level of  historical accuracy, BUT to some in the white-knighting, soy drinking SJW crowd, it is a political statement.

 

 

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Homenaje a todas las pilotos, con este vídeo que cree , ensalzando y dando voz a las heroínas que combatieron en los cielos. 

!!! Modo Carrera Con Pilotos Femeninas Ya!!

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1 hour ago, 19//Rekt said:

 

[...]

Honestly, the negative reaction of some members to the mere suggestion of adding a female pilot model, on the basis of its ahistoricity, baffles me a little bit. Are people really so worried that white, largely Christian men will not be accorded enough "credit" in future editions of the history books for initiating and then dragging out the single greatest shitshow in the entire human experience?

[...]

 

Sorry, but people will call you sjw if you use that rhetoric. Nothing surprising in that.

 

Anyway i feel that there is a lock coming. I think most people wouldn't mind some female characters if it's done properly (and not like how some devs dealt with this in certain popular games)

Edited by rolikiraly
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Just now, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

There were no female German combat pilots. There is no place on radio for that.

But I don't think anyone here's asked for female German pilots? This whole topic's been about soviet female pilots, which were definitely a real thing.

 

Just now, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

That's not how the world works. Grow the hell up. 

I feel kind of embarassed, this being the first time I've taken part in an internet argument. Sorry about that, everyone! I do believe that the world should work in a certain way. I'm a young man and no doubt have a lot of growing up to do, but I feel like in this conversation I've acted maturely enough. If not, mods will no doubt let me now. You laugh at the idea of social justice, but I believe in being kind and compassionate and basically supporting anything that is found in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. And not being rude to people, unless they act rude towards me or someone else first.

 

41 minutes ago, seafireliv said:

Some of us still have some balls.

If what I've written makes me less of a man, I don't want to be manly.

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8 minutes ago, 6./ZG26_Custard said:

Leaf, I agree that adding female pilots adds choice and adds a level of  historical accuracy, BUT to some in the white-knighting, soy drinking SJW crowd, it is a political statement.

 

Completely agree; we can be thankful that this is a small niche and doesn't come under the same scrutiny as other genres, e.g. "why aren't the more female protagonists in xyz adventure game", which usually attracts the more, erm, "passionate" SWJ crowd.

 

But the problem here is that, much like in a lot of current political discussions, people feel so strongly about certain things (alt right, SWJ, certain presidents etc.) that any kind of middle ground is eroded in favour of generalisations to make a strong argument. Moderation, or appreciation of nuance is quickly thrown aside.

 

Just because someone wants a female pilot to fly as (say in multiplayer, because singleplayer is a different issue), then that doesn't make them a social justice warrior or politically correct. It's an unfair assumption. Instead of inquiring why people want female pilots or engaging in a meaningful discussion, people are far too quick to paint everything with a tar brush. E.g. "all people who don't want women in a video game are misogynists" or "all people who want women in a video game are politically correct snowflakes" (snowflake, another term I hate).

 

Women in video games should never be a political statement, in my opinion. Unfortunately, people on both sides often try to make it one, and that's a shame.

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Leaf, I wish I could give you a thousand up-votes.

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12 minutes ago, Habsburger said:

You laugh at the idea of social justice, but I believe in being kind and compassionate and basically supporting anything that is found in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. And not being rude to people, unless they act rude towards me or someone else first.

It really isn't about being kind its about control. I'm sure you are a decent young man, but under the PC culture if anything below applies to you just remember to know your place in the pecking order and get to the back of the queue 

Intersectionality

White privilege

Toxic masculinity  

Manspreading

Mansplaining

Affirmative action

Patriarchy

Pronouns

The list is endless but I'm too old and too tired to list anymore.

 

PS: I'd still like to see female VVS pilots 

 

PPS: and I'd like female voices on the radio

 

Edited by 6./ZG26_Custard

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2 hours ago, SCG_Tzigy said:

Scharfi scares me.  In a good way. Like a mix between Ygritte, Arya,  Brienne and Melisandre....:biggrin:

 

Yeah she scares me too. She's a natural born fighter pilot. :salute: I would have liked to had her as a RL squadron mate...you know before GoT...way back in the Jurassic Era ;)

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6 hours ago, 6./ZG26_Custard said:

I'm all for female soviet pilots but when you consider that Soviet women made up only approximately 3% of total military personnel, you would not expect wall to wall female pilots.

 

 

Wow.  Considering the size of the Soviet armed forces, 3% must add up to a lot of people.

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43 minutes ago, Feathered_IV said:

 

Wow.  Considering the size of the Soviet armed forces, 3% must add up to a lot of people.

 

800,000 women or so.

Likely a conservative number.

 

I had 3% of 800,000 quoted before which was me spacing out.

Edited by Gambit21

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8 hours ago, Gambit21 said:

 

Yep - and Li-2

Can you leak more collector's planes beside these two?  Any news on Hurricane?

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10 hours ago, Finkeren said:

Surprised we got to page two before anyone brought up Arianne Scharfi. At this point she must be pretty tired of being the poster-girl for female simmers in between having her gender questioned by fragile males, who seem to have a hard time grasping, that a penis isn’t a requirement for being able to use a joystick.

 

I wish a few more of our female community members would come out, so we can put the myth to rest, that this is a 99% sausage-fest.

 

Well I recommend them not to, the focus will be their gender not their interest . I know quite a few that had to leave the community in the old IL2 , being subjected to PM´s from morons believing they where part of this in order to hook up. We are from all over the world, the concept of respect is highly subjective. 

 

Saying the women influence to the war effort was insignificant is a disturbingly unhistorical statement, it is like saying Any airforce did not contribute, because historically they where so few in numbers. Red army had frontline soldiers, excelling as snipers, tank crew and all important types in aviation. They flew PO 2, IL 2, PE2, A 20 YAK and probably many more . A large number of aircrews like gunners perished during the war. We are not talking a game here, we are talking about people serving in the worst sector of WW2 . 

We are not the ones giving priorities to the Devs, if they like the idea they do it, but I have difficulties to believe they have not talked about it. So I guess they have not yet had capacity

Edited by 216th_LuseKofte
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4 hours ago, Leaf said:

 

Completely agree; we can be thankful that this is a small niche and doesn't come under the same scrutiny as other genres, e.g. "why aren't the more female protagonists in xyz adventure game", which usually attracts the more, erm, "passionate" SWJ crowd.

 

But the problem here is that, much like in a lot of current political discussions, people feel so strongly about certain things (alt right, SWJ, certain presidents etc.) that any kind of middle ground is eroded in favour of generalisations to make a strong argument. Moderation, or appreciation of nuance is quickly thrown aside.

 

Just because someone wants a female pilot to fly as (say in multiplayer, because singleplayer is a different issue), then that doesn't make them a social justice warrior or politically correct. It's an unfair assumption. Instead of inquiring why people want female pilots or engaging in a meaningful discussion, people are far too quick to paint everything with a tar brush. E.g. "all people who don't want women in a video game are misogynists" or "all people who want women in a video game are politically correct snowflakes" (snowflake, another term I hate).

 

Women in video games should never be a political statement, in my opinion. Unfortunately, people on both sides often try to make it one, and that's a shame.

This is by far the most reasonable post on this thread. Thank you Leaf. :salute:

Edited by P51DMatt

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