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The A.I. still does it :(


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You get chased by an enemy to your airfield. You circle and the AA gives him hell. It stays behind you. It leaks. It stays. It keeps attacking. It smokes, screw it, it keeps attacking, 50m above the ground. You circle, it circles. It attacks, you try to survive, you smoke, you leak. Finally it crashes besides the runway.

 

That almost cost me my Iron Man mode career in my Fw190 just 5min ago, I so hoped that that AI behavior was a thing of the past... if damage < 50% then "fly home". No?

How frustrating.

Edited by JG4_Sputnik
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Sometimes they do break off and head home when damaged, but it's inconsistent. 

 

Under any circumstance, they should not be chasing enemy planes all the way back to base. There should be some kind of timer or limit to how far behind enemy lines the AI will chase anything.

 

 

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1 minute ago, InProgress said:

Yeaa it would be cool if ai would go away if wounded, critical damage or leaking. So small change but would do a lot.

 

It actually does do that, but it seems that it often fails to trigger, which is what Gambit is looking into.

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I damaged a Mig 3 in career mode, this one did limp back to it's base but as above I've had fighters following me back and strafing my base when trying to land.

 

Thoroughly enjoying the career mode though despite it's odd behaviour now and again. Iron man, great idea.

 

Personally I'd take it a step further...if you die the game uninstalls and you have to go through the full rigmarole of reinstalling etc !!!

 

That would make you a very careful flyer...:P

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Do you guys know where the ".mgen" files are after running a career mission?

 

If you see this behavior you can zip those up and send to me. You can also post directly on the bugs page but if I can look at it first I can tell if it's a simple matter of "decision RTB" setting in the aircraft properties, or priority setting in the attack area (if there is one set) or need for other additional logic - or legit bug.

 

I'm away from my computer and can't double check the folder path to those files right now. They are overwritten each time. Between missions or reboots.

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36 minutes ago, Gambit21 said:

can you zip up the mission file and send it to me? I want to look at the settings for that particular aircraft.

Thanks for the support. Unfortunately I don't find those .mgen files. Can you tell me where they are later?

And while you are at it, maybe you also could look into this? (same mission)

Here's my quote:

-----------------------------------------------

I just flew a similar mission and I was wrong: the remaining three planes didn't stay on the flight plan and thus disappeared, even worse, they....  ONLY disappeared! Just like that.

We flew past Krimskaya and encountered some B20 above us (we had to pound an airfield) and from an instant to an other half of my squad just disappeared. I didn't find them with shift+f1 either. Just gone.

 

Even more strange, when I dropped my bomb because I got attacked, I flew back towards my base. The A20 came into my sight but just popped out of nothing about 200m in front of me (with icons on). Then I flew past them for some time and wanted to land, there were no A20 whatsoever, also even with ctrl+f2. I don't know if there's an option for that to not happen (ressources?) but it is very stange and even affects the planes of my squad.

 

Any ideas? Bug? 

I fly in VR.

---------------------------------------------

Thanks and Cheers.

Edited by JG4_Sputnik
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They will need mission files  - sounds like an ill-placed "delete" trigger though.

 

Like I said not at my desk and can't double-check the folder right now.

Maybe Habu or Luke or Busdriver etc will pipe up in the meantime.

I can't remember the sub folder without clicking around.

 

 

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Look in the Missions folder...as 19//Tuesday suggests. The big file is the one Gambit21 wants to look at.

 

5ab2d08ec0677_Careermissionbuggouge.JPG.74739f9b5564058a814df8ad059e03cd.JPG

 

As he says...just zip all the _gen.* files together and post.

 

Edited by busdriver
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Yeah I had a 109 following me all the way back to my base on my last Career mission, I kept trying to loose him as I really did not want to be fussed and knew I was low on ammo, but he just kept coming.

 

Finally when close to home I whirled around and engaged him, luckily I had enough cannons left to take care of him.

 

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56 minutes ago, InProgress said:

Yeaa it would be cool if ai would go away if wounded, critical damage or leaking. So small change but would do a lot.

I’ve had cases when battling a 109 the plane would catch fire and the pilot would ride the aircraft till death... not bailing out.

 

I would see the fire start, fly in sort of loose formation but it just kept maneuvering... it got to the point where I would have to line up and keep shooting to take off a wing or something for the poor bugger to decide it was time to jump...

 

 

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18 minutes ago, dburne said:

Yeah I had a 109 following me all the way back to my base on my last Career mission, I kept trying to loose him as I really did not want to be fussed and knew I was low on ammo, but he just kept coming.

 

Finally when close to home I whirled around and engaged him, luckily I had enough cannons left to take care of him.

 

 

That's not indicative of anything amiss other than an AI who takes his job seriously. ;)

 

What I'm curious about is a critically damaged AI or bingo fuel AI that doesn't RTB.

Edited by Gambit21
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I've just flown a cover ground troops mission with 57th IAP which was odd in several respects: the point we are guarding is only 8 km away, a fuel depot right by our airbase (not unreasonable I think), but unfortunately, enemies (Bf-109G4s) showed up only after we had completed our time on station there, and once the flight was locked into the landing routine, so was of course slaughtered. And finally, a group of He-111s showed up and and bombed the fuel depot, and then proceeded to attempt to land (under AAA fire) at our airbase...

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12 minutes ago, thenorm said:

I've just flown a cover ground troops mission with 57th IAP which was odd in several respects: the point we are guarding is only 8 km away, a fuel depot right by our airbase (not unreasonable I think), but unfortunately, enemies (Bf-109G4s) showed up only after we had completed our time on station there, and once the flight was locked into the landing routine, so was of course slaughtered. And finally, a group of He-111s showed up and and bombed the fuel depot, and then proceeded to attempt to land (under AAA fire) at our airbase...

 

So where's your Missions zip file?;)

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39 minutes ago, thenorm said:

I've just flown a cover ground troops mission with 57th IAP which was odd in several respects: the point we are guarding is only 8 km away, a fuel depot right by our airbase (not unreasonable I think), but unfortunately, enemies (Bf-109G4s) showed up only after we had completed our time on station there, and once the flight was locked into the landing routine, so was of course slaughtered. And finally, a group of He-111s showed up and and bombed the fuel depot, and then proceeded to attempt to land (under AAA fire) at our airbase...

 

None of this sounds like bugged mission logic - just bad luck, bad timing...war.

Unless I'm misunderstanding something.

 

What should happen is another flight arriving on station before you leave - but I don't need to look at the mission file for that.

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2 minutes ago, Gambit21 said:

 

None of this sounds like bugged mission logic - just bad luck, bad timing...war.

Unless I'm misunderstanding something.

 

What should happen is another flight arriving on station before you leave - but I don't need to look at the mission file for that.

Agree much of it is bad luck, asside from the fact that the He-111s turned on their lights, lowered their landing gear and attempted to land at ---MY Russian Airbase---. That bit has to have been a generation bug. The other bit, about the AI ignoring all going on around them once they enter the landing pattern I understand is a long standing issue with the AI in both this and ROF, I hope one day it will be changed. 

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2 minutes ago, Gambit21 said:

 

None of this sounds like bugged mission logic - just bad luck, bad timing...war.

Unless I'm misunderstanding something.

 

What should happen is another flight arriving on station before you leave - but I don't need to look at the mission file for that.

 

He mentions that the He-111s attempted to land at his Soviet airbase. Definitely bugged mission logic there.

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7 minutes ago, FFS_Cybermat47 said:

He mentions that the He-111s attempted to land at his Soviet airbase. Definitely bugged mission logic there.

 

Yeah, that's the part that I think is the bug. Flying a patrol and not making contact or commencing RTB before the bandits arrive seems pretty random as Gambit21 suggests.

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12 minutes ago, thenorm said:

How aggressive should the AI flight lead be on those missions? Seems odd to me that my lead didn't engage the Stuka flight that showed up in our AO, even after they had dived.

Missions2nd.zip

 

Did you hear/see the ground observer's report of the enemy? Or was this an intercept mission? Still the same 57th IAP campaign? In the Unit HQ could you tell if your Flight Lead was an experienced ace or a relatively junior pilot?

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10 minutes ago, thenorm said:

Did not realize that they only engage those called by the observer, my mistake then. 

 

 

I asked because apparently some players are posting that the ground observers are NOT reporting bandits. I've not flown a "cover ground forces" mission since the release. So I can't verify. 

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I will say, I have yet to hear the observers make a call, and I've flown maybe 8 of these missions. Some have no AI in at all, some have ones that are apparently not our problem. 

As an aside, is there a list of mission types out there? Curious what all the types are. 

 

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And here the new mission: There was a big scramble in the air, maybe 15-20aircraft, I chased one back to its airfield and came back like 5-10 minutes later and ALL the aircraft are gone. It was only me and my two teammates (I did circle through ctrl-F2 - no enemy or friendly planes on the map whatsoever).

 

Or is this not a bug in the first place but a certain way to "eliminate" all planes outside a certain "bubble" around me?

If so, is there a way to get rid of that?

 

BTW my two teammates died almost at the exactely same minute without being shot down, so I assume the AI couldn't handle a certain maneuvre of them.

 

Cheers,

 

Missions2.rar

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OK - thenorm...

 

German flights did indeed have a "command land" MCU at your home base - obviously an error.

I will report this.

 

Checking on the other stuff.

 

OK Sputnik - mission one I can't find anything amiss with delete MCU's...I did find a few MCU/counter errors, but nothing you'd notice flying the mission.

I'm most curious about the first one though, looking at that one next.

3 hours ago, JG4_Sputnik said:

And here the new mission: There was a big scramble in the air, maybe 15-20aircraft, I chased one back to its airfield and came back like 5-10 minutes later and ALL the aircraft are gone. It was only me and my two teammates (I did circle through ctrl-F2 - no enemy or friendly planes on the map whatsoever).

 

Or is this not a bug in the first place but a certain way to "eliminate" all planes outside a certain "bubble" around me?

If so, is there a way to get rid of that?

 

BTW my two teammates died almost at the exactely same minute without being shot down, so I assume the AI couldn't handle a certain maneuvre of them.

 

Cheers,

 

Missions2.rar

 

I'm not sure of the exact circumstances of your flight and how things played out, but yes there's a 15000 meter 'deactivate' MCU linked to you player aircraft and enemy aircraft.

I'm calling 'no bug' at this point, and I cant' find any misplaced 'delete' MCU's.

 

Edited by Gambit21
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Thanks Gambit, really appreciated!

 

What is "deactivate' MCU linked to you player aircraft and enemy aircraft."? Does that mean the game deletes all the planes around me farther than 15000 meters? And that is by design? If so, can I increase that distance somewhere?

Thanks again,

cheers

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Flying a test PWCG mission I can confirm that the AI is, shall we say, a tad too enthusiastic.  Was flying He111s when attacked by two MiGs.  Wingman starts to smoke.  Losing altitude.   Losing ground on the rest of us.  Flaps down.  Still following his leader as the leader chases us!  He crashes.

 

Leader starts to smoke.  Keeps coming at us.  Gets hit more.  Finally breaks off but has no chance to make it home.  He soon crashes.

 

Two conclusions:

1. In this case it looks like the AI prioritizes staying with the leader over survival.  If that is pervasive behavior then it means that only a damaged leader will try to go home.  I have found the AI routines to be - ahem -variable enough that I cannot say with certainty that this behavior is pervasive, but it definitely happened on this mission.

 

2. The AI makes the RTB decision way too late.  Any serious damage like a fuel or radiator leak should prompt the AI to immediately attempt to disengage.  

 

More AI wonkiness.  On this mission it was my wingman who came under attack.  He was seriously damaged.  Made no attempt to RTB.  Made no attempt to reach the target and drop.  Only unloaded his bombs as he got the landing command.

 

Conclusion:

1. The bomber AI is making bad decisions.  Any serious damage should result in drop load and RTB.  If it is not going to drop load to RTB then it ought to drop its load on the target.  No reason to keep carrying the bombs around with it.

 

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