Jump to content
[Pb]Bones18

AI Waypoint Flying Speed

Recommended Posts

20 minutes ago, 56RAF_Stickz said:

As you are one of the very few that have mentioned flying E7 campaign - have you noticed if your AI wingmen discard their bombs when this occurs. I have had it happen sevceral times on mine, but does not appear that they drop the ordnance to defend themselves.

 

I am also flying an E7 campaign (about 8 missions in now). Originally started out on "dense" but was getting bounced immediately upon takeoff. AI wingmen did not discard ordinance and got slaughtered. Went through three full squadrons before dropping down to "medium". I may even go to sparse, simply due to this oversight since I still take significant losses if we get engaged before we've hit the target. It's a shame to have to do this, but I cannot keep losing full squads simply because they are not smart enough to drop ordinance and then engage. I have also had a couple instances of the AI just blindly continuing towards the objective, despite being lit up by hostiles.

 

I also have a hard time understanding how the objectives trigger success. For bridge attacks, the bridge could be destroyed but we continue circling and strafing for quite some time before finally getting the critical success message. Same thing with airfield attacks, I'll lose half my squad to flak and even though a significant portion of the parked aircraft and static emplacements are destroyed, it will not give me a success message. It seems either time-related, or random.

Edited by Scottvdken
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I did some fighter missions and looked at the mission file in the ME and it seems that when you play on easy, all enemy planes are on the lowest skill level and all friendly flights are aces. Just your own squad has varying skill levels. Seems to depend on the rank they have. The lowest rank is also the lowest skill level, the 2nd and 3rd rank is normal, the 4th rank is high and the highest rank is ace.

 

The problem with that is, that when your comrades die and get replaced with low ranks you just have low AI skill on your squadmates and they cant survive long enough to level up. But even with Ace AI 109s you start loosing them quickly. They have massive problems with aiming on every skill level and often crash into the ground when the fight starts at higher alts when the enemy is donw low like for example IL2s. Sure it not happend all the time but i lost quite some pilots that way.

 

I quite like the idea behind the ranks translating into the AI skill level but with the current AI limitations, it dosent work so well. At least as a 109 driver. I dont know how it is with other airframes but knowing the AI behavior, the better turning aircrafts with lesser stick pressures should do just fine.

 

I gonna test it with the other campaign difficultys but i think i already know how it will be. On moderate alle planes have equal skill leves amongst the AI flights and that nothing changes with your own squadmates. And hard difficulty should be the opposite of easy, ace AIs for the enemy and low AIs for friendlys. But that has to be tested before being sure.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Seems that the base AI level for the player squad should be 'average' instead of 'rookie'. I mean average for sergeants, veteran for lieutenents, and ace for captains.

Another option: rookie for anyone with less than 3 missions, average until 10 missions, veteran with 20+; veteran status could also be earned with 3 air kills (or equivalent ground kills), regardless the number of missions flown; ace status could be given after 10 air kills. 

 

  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, sniperton said:

Seems that the base AI level for the player squad should be 'average' instead of 'rookie'. I mean average for sergeants, veteran for lieutenents, and ace for captains.

Another option: rookie for anyone with less than 3 missions, average until 10 missions, veteran with 20+; veteran status could also be earned with 3 air kills (or equivalent ground kills), regardless the number of missions flown; ace status could be given after 10 air kills. 

 

 

I like the way you think. Perhaps some, not all Guards units (and German) get 50% veteran 50% ace. The Devs have units operating in a historical manner (correct campaign and airfields) so tweaking the AI seems possible. For the grognard player, perhaps disadvantaged Soviet AI (few ace AI) during Moscow and early Stalingrad. More veteran and ace AI during Kuban. Reverse this trend for the Germans.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Ishtaru said:

I quite like the idea behind the ranks translating into the AI skill level

Patrick implemented this into PWCG quite some time ago. I think there are some more things, that could be implemented into the new career mode from PWCG, like the possibility to change waypoints or weaponloadouts, even if you are not the squadron commander.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, sniperton said:

Seems that the base AI level for the player squad should be 'average' instead of 'rookie'. I mean average for sergeants, veteran for lieutenents, and ace for captains.

Another option: rookie for anyone with less than 3 missions, average until 10 missions, veteran with 20+; veteran status could also be earned with 3 air kills (or equivalent ground kills), regardless the number of missions flown; ace status could be given after 10 air kills.

 

Sounds great. Also it should depend on the campaign difficulty. For example easy gives the fastest "levelups" and hard the slowest. Just an idea.

 

25 minutes ago, busdriver said:

I like the way you think. Perhaps some, not all Guards units (and German) get 50% veteran 50% ace. The Devs have units operating in a historical manner (correct campaign and airfields) so tweaking the AI seems possible. For the grognard player, perhaps disadvantaged Soviet AI (few ace AI) during Moscow and early Stalingrad. More veteran and ace AI during Kuban. Reverse this trend for the Germans.

 

This should be done via campaign difficulty in my opinion. For example adding another difficulty setting which is named "Historic" or something else but leaving the 3 difficulty settings like they are now. Imagine rookie 109 AIs versus Ace whatever plane AIs. It would be no fun. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Ishtaru said:

Also it should depend on the campaign difficulty. For example easy gives the fastest "levelups" and hard the slowest. Just an idea.

Yep, but on 'hard' it would result in a bunch of unskilled comrades unable to improve, a problem which was the starting point of this discussion.

I'd rather opt for a difficulty setting which only affects enemy AI levels. On 'normal' setting you would get the historical situation, a generally more skilled LW (e.g. in piloting the 109) and a numerous, but generally weaker VVS with a few veteran units (at least in BoM). If you select 'easy', each enemy AI would be diminished by 1 level, while if you select 'hard', the enemy AI gets a +1 bonus. But I guess it is the way it already works. The problem is the low base AI level for player squads. I started the BoM career as junior lieutenant on 'moderate', and in 15 missions or so I have scored more kills than the rest of my squad altogether. Half of my kills could and should have been scored by my comrades.

Edited by sniperton
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, busdriver said:

 

Oh I like to fight the 109s and 190s in the vertical, sometimes one or two AI will fight me that way. I've had two gorgeous maneuver kills against 109s, one that tried to convert from high aspect front quarter to my six, and the other in a low altitude looping (more precisely...two pitchbacks and one sliceback) fight, only to die from a well placed high deflection shot by his Leader. But that is uncommon.

 

I'm just speaking from personal anecdote/impression here, but it seems to me that the "veteran" difficulty level and up is what makes the difference. "Veteran" and "ace" AI will maneuver in the vertical, while the "rookie" and "average" AI will just slowly and endlessly turn in one direction.

 

I've generally found veteran and ace AI flying in QMB scenarios to be convincing enough for single player, especially in larger groups

 

2 hours ago, busdriver said:

 

I like the way you think. Perhaps some, not all Guards units (and German) get 50% veteran 50% ace. The Devs have units operating in a historical manner (correct campaign and airfields) so tweaking the AI seems possible. For the grognard player, perhaps disadvantaged Soviet AI (few ace AI) during Moscow and early Stalingrad. More veteran and ace AI during Kuban. Reverse this trend for the Germans.

 

I think this is a great idea. As @JG27_Steini pointed out in the other thread, it can be pretty immersion-breaking when real-life elite units drop like flies on every sortie the player takes part in.

 

Didn't the ROF career classify different squadrons by various levels of "eliteness?" I know PWCG does.

 

This sort of thing could be very important for a historically-plausible Bodenplatte career and representing the effects of years of attrition on the LW

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, 56RAF_Stickz said:

As you are one of the very few that have mentioned flying E7 campaign - have you noticed if your AI wingmen discard their bombs when this occurs. I have had it happen sevceral times on mine, but does not appear that they drop the ordnance to defend themselves.

 

I've been too busy trying to keep myself alive and trying to ensure I don't drop my bomb on my own troops or airfield when I ditch it. I'll try to remember to check if my wingmen drop theirs next time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, mort said:

I've been too busy trying to keep myself alive and trying to ensure I don't drop my bomb on my own troops or airfield when I ditch it. I'll try to remember to check if my wingmen drop theirs next time.

 

I've had mixed results with several attempts with E-7 careers. As an example, brand new Moderate & Dense career, my first day of Operation Typhoon. I was assigned both missions.

 

First mission, I was #4 of a 6 plane formation, prior to crossing abeam our airfield headed north, we were attacked by some MiGs escorting a half dozen IL-2s. My 5 AI mates all jettisoned their bombs and fought in the horizontal, scoring 2 MiGs and 1 IL-2. Only Lead continued to our assigned target, I landed out of ammo. I was in gliding range of our field the whole time. Brutal.

 

Second mission, I was #4 of 4. Same bad luck, MiGs escorting IL-2s attack our 4 E-7s. This time only Lead jettisoned immediately. #2 jettisoned only after MiGs made several passes (without firing). #3 never jettisoned, but generally flew trail formation off #2 until diving into the ground. No MiGs were shot down. Lead and #2 were downed by MiGs. I flew to the target alone because I had abandoned my flight. I died in a glorious fireball attempting a level delivery of my SC250 at nought height.

 

#2 before he finally jettisoned and tried to fight back...

5ab58d4b4dc17_MoscowMDfirstday02.jpg.46149a7d967fd92f3706a41cd66611e5.jpg

 

#3 lawn dart...no battle damage

5ab58d4fd6640_MoscowMDfirstday03.jpg.193d8a590f8d5c78fa5c2dc24d2eb4c6.jpg

 

First day mission results...

5ab58d676ac6d_MoscowMDfirstday05.thumb.jpg.e100f9b78f4e42a8305562ad6ffd752e.jpg

 

Personnel status of II.(S)/LG2 at the close of business on the second official day of Operation Typhoon.

5ab58d8d59dd0_MoscowMDfirstday06.thumb.jpg.842d9e989927e41afff26a60555ae6f4.jpg

 

Have started a new Moderate & Moderate career. First mission was to attack a convoy the east of our base. We were not attacked by soviet fighters. Anecdotally I'd say that Moderate & Dense in the Moscow campaign much more difficult for an E-7 pilot than a M&D Kuban P-39/Spitfire/Yak-1 career.

Edited by busdriver

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, sniperton said:

Yep, but on 'hard' it would result in a bunch of unskilled comrades unable to improve, a problem which was the starting point of this discussion.

 

This would be part of the difficulty then i geuss. :)

 

The 4th and 5th rank should be Ace, the 3rd high, the 2nd normal and the 1st rookie in my opinion.

 

I found a fix flying a 109 F4 without my comrades dying like fleas. I just fly alone. :lol:

Edited by Ishtaru

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am having great difficulty keeping up with AI's in with the Spitfire IX on the Rhineland map. Even in combat power they race off from me.

 

I really want to practise formation flying in single player but on this plane at-least, I think I am going to give up. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Saiyon said:

I am having great difficulty keeping up with AI's in with the Spitfire IX on the Rhineland map. Even in combat power they race off from me.

 

I really want to practise formation flying in single player but on this plane at-least, I think I am going to give up. 

 

What are your Realism settings?

1040949954_Realism02.jpg.a526bf1e68526bab6e642069a91a05a6.jpg

 

490157699_Realism01.thumb.jpg.42d63409cc454d0f26a3fe292aa34046.jpg

 

Have you checked the obvious things, like flaps up? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Saiyon  I’ve noticed this as well. They push there engine to its limit sometimes, making it hard to catch up because they get a head start. 
 I try to watch for exhaust smoke from them, letting me know they got it to the wood. Know your limitations and run hard to stay with them. I use an engine limit chart in place of the custom photos. It’s in the mod section. And as @busdriver said, check your realism settings. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...