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wings are very good at keeping angles stable

 

Your guesses are as good as mine Ehret. Though I'm not too sure about wings keeping angles well. Correct me if I missundestood you.

 

Naturally a symmetric airfoil needs some angle to produce lift, the manual states you need to increase down trim as speed increases to counteract a "severe" pull up at speed (does not state what speed). I'd say these things suggest a substantial built in wing aoa. And for this reason alone I'm guessing it could be quite sensitive to angles compared to a semi symmetric/cambered airfoil. Perhaps with the only benefit of less drag at higher speeds if constantly trimmed.

 

I'm hoping the aero experts here can chime in on what (if any) advantage such and airfoil would have.

Edited by a_radek

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This, Team red will have a joy roaming empty skies in that uber plane

BS. You are essentially saying, that all LW pilots are crybabies, who can’t handle not flying the superior aircraft - of course that’s not true.

 

I personally think the FN seems a bit on the fast side, but the idea that this should suddenly depopulate the servers is laughable.

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This, Team red will have a joy roaming empty skies in that uber plane

So blue team fly online only if they have superior fighters?
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Your guesses are as good as mine Ehret. Though I'm not too sure about wings keeping angles well. Correct me if I missundestood you.

 

The Aircobra should behave uniformly at all angles - this is my understanding. I have read about this from that topic:

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/33868-what-expect-your-shiny-new-p39-l1/page-2?do=findComment&comment=567738

Edited by Ehret

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Not to mention it will turn better and roll better.

 

 

I'm not so sure about this. 

109 (especially F4) can outturn the early La5. Depending on pilot's skills and flaps used or not. 

 

La5FN is a little bit lighter than the early one (standard mass), and more powerfull. So, to me (assumption), elevator maneuverability should be the same at and under 500km/h. Btw, La5FN is 205kg heavier than G6 (and G6 already 86kg heavier than G4) !  :dance:

 

For sure, 109 pilots are going to have tough time against the La5FN. They'll need to (re)develop there turnfight skill (that's why I'm often going on Berloga now  :biggrin: ).

 

To me, the nightmare will be a fight against the La5FN and the Baby Plane (Spitfire) together. When La5FN will catch you, you can manage to make him overshoot and dogfight it, but the baby plane (way more maneuverable) will kill you immediatly.

Edited by F/JG300_Faucon

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Ok i will stop playing online then :/

No chance against good pilots if you like the 109 :mellow:

 

I know you are just kidding, because the previous inverse condition hasn't stopped VVS pilots from playing online for the last 4 years.

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I know you are just kidding, because the previous inverse condition hasn't stopped VVS pilots from playing online for the last 4 years.

 

 

It isn't about who had the better aircraft.  It's about being deceived.

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It isn't about who had the better aircraft. It's about being deceived.

Which nobody has been, so there’s that.

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I don't get why people call it the monster. Its not soo much better than the F version we have already. Its turntime may be good, but its far from excellent and only achievable at a high speed -> big turn radius. Just take a look at the video the devteam posted a few weeks ago where it was flying. It was prestall buffeting almost all the time while turning.

 

If you turn tight with an La-5 you'll lose the fight and that still holds up. In the hands of the right people this thing will mop the floor, but its not unbeatable.

 

 

I'm just going to spend my time in the P-39 anyways. Such a cool plane and finally a usable engine timelimit :cool:

Edited by 216th_Jordan

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I don't get why people call it the monster. Its not soo much better than the F version we have already. Its turntime may be good, but its far from excellent and only achievable at a high speed -> big turn radius. Just take a look at the video the devteam posted a few weeks ago where it was flying. It was prestall buffeting almost all the time while turning.

 

If you turn tight with an La-5 you'll lose the fight and that still holds up. In the hands of the right people this thing will mop the floor, but its not unbeatable.

A “monster” it’s not, but there are substantial improvements all round:

 

Significantly improved performance at higher altitudes

 

Fastest plane on the deck - and arguably up to 3K

 

Ability to climb with any 109 at low level

 

Moderately improved turn rate on the deck, significantly improved turn rate at altitude.

 

Much improved field of vision - from one of the worst to 2nd best in the sim.

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Which nobody has been, so there’s that.

 

 

So, if I understand you correctly; you're saying the roll rates for the LaGG and La 5 are historically accurate?  Really?  So that's your position is it?

 

So how much faster do you think the FN is going to roll?   

Edited by Wulf

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I know you are just kidding, because the previous inverse condition hasn't stopped VVS pilots from playing online for the last 4 years.

 

I mean, to be fair - and this from someone who mostly flies Red these days, that inverse condition hasn't really existed for the last three years. It was definitely, painfully true when BoS was in development but why the idea of us VVS pilots being perpetual underdogs has persisted for 4 years I really don't know. It's a pleasant, empowering narrative, I guess - but - barring flights in the old P40 or I16, it's been years since I felt like the LW actually HAD better planes. Only very experiences LW pilots make me fear the 109, and those could shoot me down in Fokker Eindeckers if they had to.

 

Regardless, it really can't be argued that the 5FN is a phenomenal machine if these stats (and inferred roll rate) hold true - Making arguably the best VVS plane a collector's aircraft. I don't know that I consider this a problem, per say, but I do believe it's a first? Will people feel compelled to buy it to be competitive, or will the other VVS machines be enough? I buy everything with wings, but I'd be interested in hearing your esteemed opinions. 

 

Between the La5FN and the A20, the VVS gains a very notable boost in performance across mission profiles it previously lagged behind, which will be interesting. Can't wait to fly the A20!

Edited by Luftschiff

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So, if I understand you correctly; you're saying the roll rates for the LaGG and La 5 are historically accurate? Really? So that's your position is it?

 

So how much faster do you think the FN is going to roll?

Even if the entire Lavochkin fighter line’s roll rate was off (which I content that it could be) how on Earth does that equal deception?

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It isn't about who had the better aircraft.  It's about being deceived.

 

Knock it off.

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So blue team fly online only if they have superior fighters?

Everyone is free to choose side and plane and only time will tell how the impact of this plane will be. We will see how it turns out.

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Players complaining about one plane that will balance the things...blue side have much better planes and now they are crying because they will have a good fighter to face, if you are that kind of people please stop playing online, we don't want [Edited] winners that want to win without effort, LA5FN will finally be a decent fighter, is not faster in altitude than any blue plane, but as soon as the gap is closing we see people crying QQ, I am losing my advantage so I will quit, [Edited]

Edited by Bearcat
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Still, I’m a little iffy about the speed. Were the early FN models really that fast?
 
Yes and no. 
 
In GB, USA, Germany, France etc. parameters of certified prototypes were matching exactly the parameters of serial aircrafts. In USSR no, because of many reasons. Prototypes were specially prepared, made lighter, extremally well polished, manufactured manually by the most experienced, small team of ОКБ beauro engineers. Their role was to impress state commission during the test presentation and to get the contract.
 
Serial aircrafts were heavier, had worse quality surface, worst quality of different elements of engine, equipement and serial aircrafts used by units fly slower, climb slower, turn slower (or turn well to the one side and not so well to the the other..) etc. etc. Man can write a book about that.
 
So according to your question: yes and no.
 
1)Yes, the second prototype La-5FN, so called "дублер" / Dubler or Dublon, exceptionally well made, polished and lighter than serial aircraft were able to achieve 610km/h speed during the test. The maximum speed at the second boundary of altitude (5800 m) reached 610 km/h. It wasn't as fast as in the game but it was faster than other VVs airplanes anyway.
 
2)No, serial aircrafts used in истребительный авиационный полк / fighter regiments, especially before the late 1944, were absolutely not able to do this. They had parameters like "Notclear" shown, taken from many different aircrafts. It was between 590-610km/h at 6000 meters and it would be realistic in the game for La-5FN series 2.
 
Another prototype (39210109) entered state tests, which took place from September 30 to October 18, 1943 (variant series 2 from the game is from June 1943). The speed increased to 630 km/h, the  turnaround time was reduced by 1-2 seconds, and the climb for the combat turn increased to 120 m. The best sealing and ventilation allowed to lower the temperature in the cabin. Although the fighter did not go into the series, many of the technical solutions incorporated in it moved to the future La-7.
 
- What is more in early models like series 2 форсированный режим/forsazh mode were allowed only for limited amount of time, La-7 and 1944 La-5FN had 10 minutes allowed, 
- cockpit didn't have proper ventilation and pilots were experiencing problems because of extensive heating, it was mitigated by disengaging the boost or opening the canopy,
- from the same reason canons over the engine were jamming after longer periods of boosted/forsazh engaged, 
- at a speed of 450 km/h and an altitude of 200 m, yaw oscillations were observed (period 3 s), and the pilot can not suppress them in a shorter time, 
- at a speed of less than 210 km/h, the aircraft falls into a spin just as with energetic maneuvers, 
- the minimum time for the turn at an altitude of 2400 m, speed 320 km/h, roll 67°, overload 2.6 G was 30 seconds,
- at an altitude of 1000 m and boosted/forsazh mode, the turn was made not less than 25 s,
- at a speed of 600 km/h the forces on the ailerons became excessive,
- the barrel was executed in 4 seconds. 
etc.etc. ;)
 
According to the state commission:
In view of the merits of its engine, the La-5FN (from 1944) is better suited for combat at low altitudes. Its maximum speed near the ground is only slightly less than that of the FW-190A-8 and Me-109 on boosted mode. Boosted characteristics are comparable. La-5FN is inferior to Me-109 with MW-50 (injection system into the cylinders of the water-methanol mixture - N.Ya.) in speed and rate of climb at all heights. The Russian fighter surpasses the FW-190A-8's climbing speed up to a height of 3000m.
 
So it was very good (and very nice looking) aircraft, just not as good as modeled in computer games. That's the reason units equipped with La-5FN and experienced pilots were efficient, but far from 
dominating the skies IRL.
 
Soviet aircrafts - generally - are extremally interesting but what man can see at the first glance is just the tip of an iceberg ;)
 
For interested in Soviet aircrafts - most of the sources are in Russian language, it is a barrier for many people. I.e. about La-5
 

cheers 

Edited by Bies
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keep calm friends.....Yes last 4 years VVS pilots were still defending against uber fast LW planes. Now the situation is getting to be equall, and blue pilots are crying? Come on....

 

So you will be just killed more times.... thats all what will change...so everything is ok.

Cheers :D

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Maybe that’s the reason behind the high top speed of the FN? It has its own unique water injection-system which runs on the tears of LW-only players. :P

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Yes and no. 
 
In GB, USA, Germany, France etc. parameters of certified prototypes were matching exactly the parameters of serial aircrafts. In USSR no, because of many reasons. Prototypes were specially prepared, made lighter, extremally well polished, manufactured manually by the most experienced, small team of ОКБ beauro engineers. Their role was to impress state commission during the test presentation and to get the contract.
 
Serial aircrafts were heavier, had worse quality surface, worst quality of different elements of engine, equipement and serial aircrafts used by units fly slower, climb slower, turn slower (or turn well to the one side and not so well to the the other..) etc. etc. Man can write a book about that.
 
So according to your question: yes and no.
 
1)Yes, the second prototype La-5FN, so called "дублер" / Dubler or Dublon, exceptionally well made, polished and lighter than serial aircraft were able to achieve 610km/h speed during the test. The maximum speed at the second boundary of altitude (5800 m) reached 610 km/h. It wasn't as fast as in the game but it was faster than other VVs airplanes anyway.
 
2)No, serial aircrafts used in истребительный авиационный полк / fighter regiments, especially before the late 1944, were absolutely not able to do this. They had parameters like "Notclear" shown, taken from many different aircrafts. It was between 590-610km/h at 6000 meters and it would be realistic in the game for La-5FN series 2.
 
Another prototype (39210109) entered state tests, which took place from September 30 to October 18, 1943 (variant series 2 from the game is from June 1943). The speed increased to 630 km/h, the  turnaround time was reduced by 1-2 seconds, and the climb for the combat turn increased to 120 m. The best sealing and ventilation allowed to lower the temperature in the cabin. Although the fighter did not go into the series, many of the technical solutions incorporated in it moved to the future La-7.
 
- What is more in early models like series 2 форсированный режим/forsazh mode were allowed only for limited amount of time, La-7 and 1944 La-5FN had 10 minutes allowed, 
- cockpit didn't have proper ventilation and pilots were experiencing problems because of extensive heating, it was mitigated by disengaging the boost or opening the canopy,
- from the same reason canons over the engine were jamming after longer periods of boosted/forsazh engaged, 
- at a speed of 450 km/h and an altitude of 200 m, yaw oscillations were observed (period 3 s), and the pilot can not suppress them in a shorter time, 
- at a speed of less than 210 km/h, the aircraft falls into a spin just as with energetic maneuvers, 
- the minimum time for the turn at an altitude of 2400 m, speed 320 km/h, roll 67°, overload 2.6 G was 30 seconds,
- at an altitude of 1000 m and boosted/forsazh mode, the turn was made not less than 25 s,
- at a speed of 600 km/h the forces on the ailerons became excessive,
- the barrel was executed in 4 seconds. 
etc.etc. ;)
 
According to the state commission:
In view of the merits of its engine, the La-5FN (from 1944) is better suited for combat at low altitudes. Its maximum speed near the ground is only slightly less than that of the FW-190A-8 and Me-109 on boosted mode. Boosted characteristics are comparable. La-5FN is inferior to Me-109 with MW-50 (injection system into the cylinders of the water-methanol mixture - N.Ya.) in speed and rate of climb at all heights. The Russian fighter surpasses the FW-190A-8's climbing speed up to a height of 3000m.
 
So it was very good (and very nice looking) aircraft, just not as good as modeled in computer games. That's the reason units equipped with La-5FN and experienced pilots were efficient, but far from 
dominating the skies IRL.
 
Soviet aircrafts - generally - are extremally interesting but what man can see at the first glance is just the tip of an iceberg ;)
 
For interested in Soviet aircrafts - most of the sources are in Russian language, it is a barrier for many people. I.e. about La-5
 

cheers 

 

 

+1000. Nice of you to take time remembering us about truth for serial production russian aircrafts...

LW pilots face prototypes performance planes and NOT serial production planes and should always remember it

 

 

Another example : In october 1944, all Yak-3 and La-7 were grounded for about a month, time to investigate some structural failures. No need to say nothing like this happened to 109/190

Edited by 64sTomio_VR
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Another example : In october 1944, all Yak-3 and La-7 were grounded for about a month, time to investigate some structural failures.

The Soviet Union were not alone in having such issues, though they were worse off than most other countries.

 

The pre- and early production Bf 109F-0 and F-1 were grounded in early 1941 due to easily losing its tail because of a weak tail assembly.

 

Later the early production Bf 109Gs were grounded due to fatal oil fires.

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keep calm friends.....Yes last 4 years VVS pilots were still defending against uber fast LW planes. Now the situation is getting to be equall, and blue pilots are crying? Come on....

 

So you will be just killed more times.... thats all what will change...so everything is ok.

Cheers :D

I am a die hard luft player, but I started playing red because the servers were all biased, too many blue planes and too few red planes, I am glad that the FN will be a decent plane, maybe I can return to fly only Germans again. I am still confident about the capabilities of German planes. The people who cry is just people that come from stupid FPS games and don't belong to simulation genre

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I am a die hard luft player, but I started playing red because the servers were all biased, too many blue planes and too few red planes, I am glad that the FN will be a decent plane, maybe I can return to fly only Germans again. I am still confident about the capabilities of German planes. The people who cry is just people that come from stupid FPS games and don't belong to simulation genre

 

I think its a shame if people fly exclusively for one side. I find it hard to understand why anyone would wish to restrict themselves to playing half the game. I'll continue to enjoy playing both sides, experiencing all roles and having a blast while doing it.

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Isn't this just going to make LW players fly up in the stratosphere and make all the combat even more asymmetric and passive? Plus extra frustration for LW players that do try to engage as their side will be even further away and more reluctant to come help than they are now. It's not about one side having better planes, it's just the the flight envelopes in which the aircraft on the two sides maximise their performance are becoming mutually exclusive. Where's the fun in that?

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Aaaaand we have a La-5FN fest before it's even out. :D

 

In other news - having tendency to fly underdogs, I'm looking forward to Yak-7B the most. Looks like it's gonna be close to expected - a hair worse performer than Yak-1B. Looking forward to take this minivan out for a ride against 1943 109s! :)

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I don't get why people call it the monster. Its not soo much better than the F version we have already. Its turntime may be good, but its far from excellent and only achievable at a high speed -> big turn radius.

 

 

How could you possibly fail to mention the insane roll rate of the lagg 3/la5? And the FN has even better ailerons yet.

 

A 109 has no chance, especially with the tremendous stick forces the lagg3/la5 are not subjected to whatsoever in this sim.

Edited by Mcdaddy

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+1000. Nice of you to take time remembering us about truth for serial production russian aircrafts...

LW pilots face prototypes performance planes and NOT serial production planes and should always remember it

 

 

Another example : In october 1944, all Yak-3 and La-7 were grounded for about a month, time to investigate some structural failures. No need to say nothing like this happened to 109/190

 

Actually 109's suffered a string of wing failures, up to 20 in one month, also tail failures, 190's suffered massive amount of engine fires early in their history

 

Me 210's went through a huge amount of test pilots and He-117 is another story, all these examples prior to production problems due to strategic bombing

 

all designs from all countries have had issues, just some people seem to only believe in German engineering infallibility  :)

 

Cheers, Dakpilot

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Nothing much will change with the LA5FN on the scene .... the reds will continue to dominate on the deck (where the missions are won). The LW pilots will still have to be taking swipes from very high above and trying sneaky strikes on the deck. If you fly patiently and sensibly you wont have much more of a problem than already exists with the yak1/1B, spitfire and LA 5F. If you get jumped on the deck you have very little chance of surviving unless you are a really good pilot but even then, the majority of reds are low and they will see you and take you down whereas the majority of LW pilots are high and will either not see the carnage or will be too late to save your butt. 

 

On a side note, the 77 squad are dominating the WOL server and guess which is their favoured ride???...... Lagg3 believe it or not. Point is, you don't need a dominant uber plane to thrive and survive. They are very patient and disciplined and even though they don't get a massive amount of kills, they epitomise the way a sim should be played. They play to the advantage of the Lagg and stick within it's envelope. They take their chances when necessary and more importantly when its safe to do so. They do not engage when at any sort of disadvantage and they do anything to stay alive even if it means staying near their airfield and diving away if they are in any trouble.

 

Check out their stats on the WoL website stats server, very impressive flying and teamwork.

Edited by =EXPEND=DendroAspis
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How could you possibly fail to mention the insane roll rate of the lagg 3/la5? And the FN has even better ailerons yet.

 

A 109 has no chance, especially with the tremendous stick forces the lagg3/la5 are not subjected to in this sim in the least.

Not so sure about "no chance".

 

If you spent some time fighting f4's in s69's like many have you would know the f4 is not exactly untouchable in that matchup. Ad to this the g6 can both out climb and outdive the Fn and things suddenly don't look too bad. Now let's not forget the mk108.

 

Frankly I'm hoping the la5 becomes the new F4 so I get to make some contrails and bounce fn's with that 30mm.

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Honestly, who bloody cares if the Ivans have a mega super plane?

You play with what you have, you catch someone unaware and it doesn't matter what plane he is flying.

If you kill him then the victory then feels even better...

 

More importantly, does the pilot flying the better plane fully understand how to get the best from it?

Does he know how to use it's advantages to the full, or is he just flying it because he's read on the forums somewhere it's a 'monster' and now he is invincible, lol!

Edited by Trooper117
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Honestly, who bloody cares if the Ivans have a mega super plane?

You play with what you have, you catch someone unaware and it doesn't matter what plane he is flying.

If you kill him then the victory then feels even better...

It's just the never ending, round and round in circles fm debate...

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It's just the never ending, round and round in circles fm debate...

 

FM should be accurate and historical, if the plane is historical and they used it, I don't care if the red side have it. That doesn't mean it will be inmortal or every player will turn it up into super pro, If I am good enough I will defeat him no matter what he does, however what worries me about is the poor visibility we have in the sim, poor contact visibility, washed out  and fake colors, the limitation in contact spotting range, thats kill me more than a uber plane does.

Edited by SJ_Butcher

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Did you not notice that the FN is as flimsy (as written in specs) as La-7/F?

Dive speed limit is a paltry 720km/h; max g-loads are not great, either. Paradoxically, the P40 has more options when at altitude, and due to much higher red-line can keep 1/3 more of kinetic energy in velocity. German planes are similar, or even better in velocity resilience - no one will be racing with the FN horizontally, when flying few kilometers high.

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On a side note, the 77 squad are dominating the WOL server and guess which is their favoured ride???...... Lagg3 believe it or not. Point is, you don't need a dominant uber plane to thrive and survive.

Lagg 3 is the most controversial airframe in the sim right now and from repeated concerns raised on the forum it's not hard to see why:

 

-23mm which quite frankly shouldn't be allowed on this airframe whatsoever.

-Ridiculous roll rate and control authority throughout entire speed envelope

 

Please don't pretend the lagg 3 is some sort of poor VVS underdog.

Edited by Mcdaddy
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Please don't pretend that the Bf 109 isn't the best fighter in the game.

 

See how that works?

 

Or better yet, if you really want to fly an underdog that is poorly modeled, at least in terms of real world usable power, fly the P40 for a while.  If you want the La5FN modeled like it's "production" aircraft rather than it's prototypes, then let's have the Allison engines modeled to be able to take high amounts of manifold pressure like they could, and did, in real life, for the extended running times that real pilots actually used.

 

Just sayin'.

Edited by BlitzPig_EL
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LA5FN will finally be a decent fighter, is not faster in altitude than any blue plane

 

I think you are misreading the data or meant to say something else.

According to the data posted by Han, even at higher altitudes (6000m) it is faster even in nominal engine mode than any blue plane in combat mode. 

At medium and low altitudes, where majority of combat happens, the speed difference to La-5FN's advantage is even bigger.

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On a side note, the 77 squad are dominating the WOL server and guess which is their favoured ride???...... Lagg3 believe it or not. Point is, you don't need a dominant uber plane to thrive and survive. They are very patient and disciplined and even though they don't get a massive amount of kills, they epitomise the way a sim should be played. They play to the advantage of the Lagg and stick within it's envelope. They take their chances when necessary and more importantly when its safe to do so. They do not engage when at any sort of disadvantage and they do anything to stay alive even if it means staying near their airfield and diving away if they are in any trouble.

 

 

This

 

Lagg 3 is the most controversial airframe in the sim right now and from repeated concerns raised on the forum it's not hard to see why:

 

-23mm which quite frankly shouldn't be allowed on this airframe whatsoever.

-Ridiculous roll rate and control authority throughout entire speed envelope

 

Please don't pretend the lagg 3 is some sort of poor VVS underdog.

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Please don't pretend that the Bf 109 isn't the best fighter in the game.

 

Well, when I look at the specs, I definitely get the impression that La-5FN will be the best fighter in the game. Does it even have a weakness? 

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-23mm which quite frankly shouldn't be allowed on this airframe whatsoever.

 

 

 

 

23mm was certainly fitted to LaGG-3, on 8 and 11 series (even the prototype was designed with 23mm in mind) but was not fitted on 29 series (generally the 23mm production was considered more important for IL-2)

 

however Mk 108 30mm was not at Kuban with G6 either, both historical issues are sorted by server options

 

If you are taking hits from the 23mm you would also be taking hits from the 20mm most likely and your day is fairly spoiled anyway

 

I guess if the LaGG-3 really is the terror of the sky's and nemesis of 109's and 190's then the La-5FN really will cause some trouble to the Luftwaffe  ;)

 

Cheers, Dakpilot

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