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CVGridley

BoBP bomber escort missions?

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I know its a ways out, but I'm curious if there's been any mention whether B-17s and 24s will make an appearance in BoBP? Hard to imagine the western front in '44-'45 without them!

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No word, and it’s unlikely we’ll see them.

 

The devs have repeatedly said, that they don’t want to make the big 4-engined heavies. They are far too complicated to model, their multiple gunners and complex DM have huge impact on performance.

 

If we are ever to see them in this sim, it would likely be as AI with somewhat simplified gunner AI and DM, and even that I think is unlikely.

 

Besides, it’s not really hard to imagine the Western Front in late 1944 without them, because BoBP concentrates on the low level tactical action close to the front, while the B-17s and B-24s would cruise by at 30,000 feet from bases far outside the map. The most we could ever see of them would be the hundreds of contrail lines cross the sky. Maybe they could model those, just to give us an idea, that the heavy bombers are there?

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No word, and it’s unlikely we’ll see them.

 

The devs have repeatedly said, that they don’t want to make the big 4-engined heavies. They are far too complicated to model, their multiple gunners and complex DM have huge impact on performance.

 

If we are ever to see them in this sim, it would likely be as AI with somewhat simplified gunner AI and DM, and even that I think is unlikely.

 

 

I certainly would not mind seeing them as AI. Would make for some cool intercept missions.

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I certainly would not mind seeing them as AI. Would make for some cool intercept missions.

 

I wouldn't mind an AI B-24 either, but it would require the devs to relinquish one of the general principles of this sim: That all planes use the same level of detail in FM, DM and AI.

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Well anyway the expansion is themed after a German attack otherwise it would have been called the mighty 8 or something.

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Well seeing as we will be getting the me262, it’s main purpose was to take out those high alt bombers...

I can’t wait to hear how one of those will sound screeching over the airfield..

 

But I too prey for the big birds on day. Miss bombing from 34k

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We are getting the AI B-25. That'll be the biggest bomber (announced) for IL-2: Battle of Bodenplatte.

 

Well seeing as we will be getting the me262, it’s main purpose was to take out those high alt bombers...
I can’t wait to hear how one of those will sound screeching over the airfield..

But I too prey for the big birds on day. Miss bombing from 34k

 

That's not entirely true. Primary role of the Me262 in and around the Bodenplatte time (and in this sector) was as a fast bomber. They were mostly flown by bomber squadrons transitioned off of Dorniers and Junkers to 262s. They flew fast low level runs against allied positions including airfields prompting 2nd TAF units to have aircraft setup at specific times for the Rat Trap missions. As soon as a 262 was spotted they would take off and try and chase the 262 and get it before it landed.

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I wouldn't mind an AI B-24 either, but it would require the devs to relinquish one of the general principles of this sim: That all planes use the same level of detail in FM, DM and AI.

 

Are you forgetting the magic fairy dust the devs have been using like the last 12 months or so?

 

That is some potent stuff I tell ya! 

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Well seeing as we will be getting the me262, it’s main purpose was to take out those high alt bombers...

Why a B-17 is necessary Required  :biggrin:

 

That's not entirely true. Primary role of the Me262 in and around the Bodenplatte time (and in this sector) was as a fast bomber. 

ME 262 was designed as a bomber interceptor, hence the four 30mm cannons. Hitler mettled in the design by requiring it to carry bombs so it could be a "Blitz Bomber" as he wanted "attack" planes not "Defense" planes. The modifications for making it carry bombs set the production back. It was not intended as a bomber, but the LW had to do what the "head man" said. I don't recall ME 262s being involved in the Bodenplatte attack, mostly FW 190s and ME 109s, but it does make a nice addition for the time period. I certainly will be flying it.

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We are getting the AI B-25. That'll be the biggest bomber (announced) for IL-2: Battle of Bodenplatte.

 

 

That's not entirely true. Primary role of the Me262 in and around the Bodenplatte time (and in this sector) was as a fast bomber. They were mostly flown by bomber squadrons transitioned off of Dorniers and Junkers to 262s. They flew fast low level runs against allied positions including airfields prompting 2nd TAF units to have aircraft setup at specific times for the Rat Trap missions. As soon as a 262 was spotted they would take off and try and chase the 262 and get it before it landed.

Yeah I forgot to mention this,,, I suppose I was thinking it when I wrote “ can’t wait to hear one screeching over the airfield”. Lol.

It’ll be some awesome technology when they get those jumos turning without blowing up :)

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I don't recall ME 262s being involved in the Bodenplatte attack, mostly FW 190s and ME 109s, but it does make a nice addition for the time period. I certainly will be flying it.

 

Actually, I. & II./KG 51 committed approximately 22 Me-262s to the Bodenplatte initiative, with attacks carried out against Gilze-Rijen & Eindhoven.

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Indeed. And at least one was shot down too. From page 395 (Vol 3) of the 2nd TAF book by Christopher Shores and Chris Thomas, there's a record of a kill by a No 401 squadron Spitfire IX north east of Rheine on January 1st.

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No word, and it’s unlikely we’ll see them.

 

The devs have repeatedly said, that they don’t want to make the big 4-engined heavies. They are far too complicated to model, their multiple gunners and complex DM have huge impact on performance.

 

If we are ever to see them in this sim, it would likely be as AI with somewhat simplified gunner AI and DM, and even that I think is unlikely.

 

Besides, it’s not really hard to imagine the Western Front in late 1944 without them, because BoBP concentrates on the low level tactical action close to the front, while the B-17s and B-24s would cruise by at 30,000 feet from bases far outside the map. The most we could ever see of them would be the hundreds of contrail lines cross the sky. Maybe they could model those, just to give us an idea, that the heavy bombers are there?

 

This is the best answer and followed by this

 

I wouldn't mind an AI B-24 either, but it would require the devs to relinquish one of the general principles of this sim: That all planes use the same level of detail in FM, DM and AI.

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Given the scale and focus of BoBP, the presence of heavies isn't really needed beyond perhaps as dressing/static targets for allied airfields.

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I'm not sure it would be such a good idea.  It sounds great for sure, and I'm certain just about everybody would love to experience those epic missions if they could. 

However the reality would probably translate to three or four fighters intercepting three or four bombers who have three or four escorts.

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 However the reality would probably translate to three or four fighters intercepting three or four bombers who have three or four escorts.

 

Which would result in a 5-10 fps slide show for everyone involved.

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I have a test mission with 24 HE-111's that says differently - but that's beside the point really.

B-17's are not in the plan - nuff said.

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24 bombers is quite a small number.  300+ would be doing it right.

 

Of course - but it's more than 4 which was the only point...and you know as well as I do that we'll never see 300 of anything, let alone multi-engine bombers.

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ME 262 was designed as a bomber interceptor, hence the four 30mm cannons. Hitler mettled in the design by requiring it to carry bombs so it could be a "Blitz Bomber" as he wanted "attack" planes not "Defense" planes. The modifications for making it carry bombs set the production back. It was not intended as a bomber, but the LW had to do what the "head man" said. I don't recall ME 262s being involved in the Bodenplatte attack, mostly FW 190s and ME 109s, but it does make a nice addition for the time period. I certainly will be flying it.

There (in our area) was only one fighter group - Kommando Nowotny (Me 262 A-1a, Oct-Nov 1944) and two bomber groups - I./KG 51 (Me 262 A-2a, Sep 1944 - Mar 1945) and II./KG 51 (Me 262 A-2a, Nov 1944 - Mar 1945). Don't limit next project only one operation (Jan 1, 1945), we'd like to show in the future game much more events if we can :)

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Don't limit next project only one operation (Jan 1, 1945), we'd like to show in the future game much more events if we can :)

HYPE!

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Don't limit next project only one operation (Jan 1, 1945), we'd like to show in the future game much more events if we can :)

BlackSix, I don't care if a plane was actually involved in "Operation X" or "Battle of X". If it flies I would like to see it in the game . I know there were ME 262 groups in the area, and I know you are not limiting the game to only one day, I was just saying I didn't know if 262s were involved in the actual Jan 1 attack.

 

I am thrilled that the ME 262 is going to be in here and that you are continuing to expand the series. Salute!  :salute:  

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I have a test mission with 24 HE-111's that says differently - but that's beside the point really.

B-17's are not in the plan - nuff said.

I’ve been in much smaller fights in WoL that turned into slide shows.

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I would make a new product with a Ruhr/England map and one heavy flyable (B-17).  

If it shortens development time I would eliminate some crew positions.  Copilot, navigator, waist gunners, and radio operator come to mind.  That leaves pilot, top turret gunner, tail gunner, ball turret gunner, and bombardier to model.

The mission would allow jump points.  Takeoff from England.  Form up.  Jump to the Ruhr.  Drop bombs.  Return to England map and land.

The maps would still allow a couple of hours of flying time but not the eight hours that it really took to do a mission.

Jump points would be settable to allow missions to be shortened further.

 

I would price this at about $60 - two maps, one plane.

If this is successful then follow up with the B24 as a collector plane for $35.

 

The map making would be work but it would be of a routine variety.   The fighters already exist post BoBP.  That leaves the team free to focus on the B-17.

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ME 262 was designed as a bomber interceptor, hence the four 30mm cannons. Hitler mettled in the design by requiring it to carry bombs so it could be a "Blitz Bomber" as he wanted "attack" planes not "Defense" planes. The modifications for making it carry bombs set the production back. It was not intended as a bomber, but the LW had to do what the "head man" said. I don't recall ME 262s being involved in the Bodenplatte attack, mostly FW 190s and ME 109s, but it does make a nice addition for the time period. I certainly will be flying it.

 

Very true - it was Herr Hitler's decision to enforce the role of Blitz Bomber on the aircraft so this was, officially, the function it was assigned. It only got to be used in a fighter or bomber intercept role later on. I'm in the middle of reading 'The Battle of the Airfields' by Norman Franks and this specifically mentions 262s of Kampfgeschwader 51 being employed in the Bodenplatte attack. There are also several other reliable accounts of them bombing the airfields during that attack then running for home. I very much hope that this is the version of the aircraft that we will see in the game when it is released as it will be the most true to the actual battle that the pack is named after.

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I would make a new product with a Ruhr/England map and one heavy flyable (B-17).  

If it shortens development time I would eliminate some crew positions.  Copilot, navigator, waist gunners, and radio operator come to mind.  That leaves pilot, top turret gunner, tail gunner, ball turret gunner, and bombardier to model.

The mission would allow jump points.  Takeoff from England.  Form up.  Jump to the Ruhr.  Drop bombs.  Return to England map and land.

The maps would still allow a couple of hours of flying time but not the eight hours that it really took to do a mission.

Jump points would be settable to allow missions to be shortened further.

 

I would price this at about $60 - two maps, one plane.

If this is successful then follow up with the B24 as a collector plane for $35.

 

The map making would be work but it would be of a routine variety.   The fighters already exist post BoBP.  That leaves the team free to focus on the B-17.

All that's needed is a detailed crew roster...I still have a copy of The Mighty Eight on my hard drive. It was my favorite game for years. I will say one of the most compelling parts of that game was the audio interactions among the crew. When people were hurt you could hear the desperation in their voices. Really gave the missions atmosphere during the long stretchs between takeoff to target. Is what I am trying to say is this is a great idea.

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I’ve been in much smaller fights in WoL that turned into slide shows.

Yeah online is a different animal.

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I would make a new product with a Ruhr/England map and one heavy flyable (B-17).

If it shortens development time I would eliminate some crew positions. Copilot, navigator, waist gunners, and radio operator come to mind. That leaves pilot, top turret gunner, tail gunner, ball turret gunner, and bombardier to model.

The mission would allow jump points. Takeoff from England. Form up. Jump to the Ruhr. Drop bombs. Return to England map and land.

The maps would still allow a couple of hours of flying time but not the eight hours that it really took to do a mission.

Jump points would be settable to allow missions to be shortened further.

 

I would price this at about $60 - two maps, one plane.

If this is successful then follow up with the B24 as a collector plane for $35.

 

The map making would be work but it would be of a routine variety. The fighters already exist post BoBP. That leaves the team free to focus on the B-17.

Heck, there could be a whole new module and call it “bomber crew”

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