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Spot and ID well! Tricks, fixes, copy/paste settings for SteamVR, WMR (Reverb G2), etc.


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On 2/7/2021 at 12:39 PM, E69_Qpassa_VR said:

which are your settings? I am struggling specially looking below me

[KEY = graphics]
    3dhud = 0
    adapter = 0
    bloom_enable = 0
    canopy_ref = 0
    desktop_center = 1
    detail_rt_res = 1024
    draw_distance = 0.54500
    far_blocks = 1
    fps_counter = 0
    fps_limit = 0
    full_height = 1080
    full_width = 2560
    fullscreen = 0
    gamma = 0.70000
    grass_distance = 0.00000
    hdr_enable = 1
    land_anisotropy = 1
    land_detail = 0
    land_tex_lods = 3
    max_cache_res = 1
    max_clouds_quality = 2
    mgpu_compatible = 0
    mirrors = 1
    msaa = 1
    multisampling = 1
    or_ca = 0.00124
    or_dummy = 0
    or_enable = 1
    or_height = 2660
    or_hud_rad = 0.85000
    or_hud_size = 0.85000
    or_ipd = 0.06472
    or_sipdc = 0.00000
    or_width = 2720
    post_sharpen = 1
    preset = 1
    prop_blur_max_rpm_for_vr = 155
    rescale_target = 1.00000
    shadows_quality = 3
    ssao_enable = 0
    stereo_dof = 5.00000
    vsync = 0
    win_height = 768
    win_width = 1024


Steam VR SS for IL2 at 65%

Edited by =X51=Viper_VR
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On 2/9/2021 at 3:56 PM, E69_Qpassa_VR said:

I am using 100% SS and people says ok one at out 9 high and I see s**t

 

If you read my first post:

 

The higher the SS, the shorter the spotting range. That is why I recommended a maximum of 1.3 to the physical display. 2160*1.3 = 2808. That's the maximum

 

For IL-2, best to use 50% to 70% SS for the Reverb G2. It is true that 50% spots further than 70%.

 

 

It's part of the scaling of IL-2's engine. It's the way it is, unfortunately.:coffee:

 

 

Edited by SCG_Fenris_Wolf
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2 hours ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

For IL-2, best to use 50% to 70% SS for the Reverb G2. It is true that 50% spots further than 70%.

 

 

S! Wolf,

Your guides are nice starting points for anyone using VR. Just a couple quick questions. The range you mentioned above, is that for application or general? Do they conflict with one another or should both be set to 50%? I've also noticed that I have trouble seeing buildings beneath me when I'm at 4K w/o zooming in. Before I modded my VR settings, I thought I could see them just fine. Any suggestions?

 

Thanks,

HB

 

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Hello guys, long time lurker, first time poster here (though I’ve been reading less and less since September).

 

So I finally got tired of waiting of eventual availability of Rtx 3080, and bought a prebuilt PC with i7 10700KF and Rtx 2080 Super at a somewhat agreeable price (MSI Aegis via Newegg). From the reviews, I know the cpu cooling is not the best out there, and the memory supplied is not even the same memory clock as the processor.

 

I also ordered a G2, and it will be shipped later this month. I’m hoping helpful members of the forum may point me in the right direction to optimize things so I’d have a decent VR experience. I’d have to check the warranty documentation, but I think for warranty reasons I’m going to refrain from swapping the case and cooling for a later day only would update the memory in the near future. 
 

Other than this post, what other posts you guys would recommend I catch up with? Since this post is so extensive, even pointing out any specific posts that may have dealt with the CPU/GPU/HMD combination I’ll be dealing with, I’d really appreciate it.

 

PS: The PC actually just got delivered as I was typing this :) 

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This is pretty much the thread with all the relevant information. I would read the first part of the thread closely, especially the information for G2. Then I would scan through the later posts related to the G2 and see what people are saying. You are lucky that Fenris (the creator of the thread) is now using a G2. So he has ongoing and updated information on it. I am still a Pimax user. So, I really can’t speak to the G2.

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2 hours ago, Trefftz_Plane said:

CV1 here, was trying to level bomb at 4.5K per the video somebody posted about it.  Couldn't find the target, the objects wouldn't load in.  What setting controls object load in distance?

 

Was this in Multiplayer? In that case it's the server admins choice I believe. Not sure how this works in single player.

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Hey @kissTheSky, first of all congrats to the new headset, that'll be a good choice! However I have to be so blunt, but can you return the PC for a refund?

 

I don't think the 2080super meets minimum requirements for the G2 to have a pleasant experience, I don't know if it can hold a 50% supersampling value of the G2 in IL-2. The CPU is okay, but not able to push 90Hz in ultra in IL-2. Maybe in balanced or high when heavily overclocked(!) with a watercooler, then I'm sure it does well.

Other games may run well, but IL 2 and DCS will be problematic. Ultimately it depends on the price of the system though and what you want regarding graphical quality.

 

There are threads in VR and hardware forums for recommendations on what to put in the PC. Remember that frequencies of CPUs cannot be compared across the board. For example, the usual Intel CPU would need to clock at almost 6000Hz to compete with a 5800X at 4950Hz, generally speaking.

 

 

Basically you'll want either a heavily overclocked Intel with water cooling or a 5600x/5800x/5900x, 3600+ MHz CL16 memory of you want ultra preset, and at least an RTX 3080 (no AMD GPUs) in any case for the G2.

A 2080super is slower than a 3070 and more towards 3060 territory.

Edited by SCG_Fenris_Wolf
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2 hours ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

Hey @kissTheSky, first of all congrats to the new headset, that'll be a good choice! However I have to be so blunt, but can you return the PC for a refund?

 

I don't think the 2080super meets minimum requirements for the G2 to have a pleasant experience, I don't know if it can hold a 50% supersampling value of the G2 in IL-2. The CPU is okay, but not able to push 90Hz in ultra in IL-2. Maybe in balanced or high when heavily overclocked(!) with a watercooler, then I'm sure it does well.

Other games may run well, but IL 2 and DCS will be problematic. Ultimately it depends on the price of the system though and what you want regarding graphical quality.

 

There are threads in VR and hardware forums for recommendations on what to put in the PC. Remember that frequencies of CPUs cannot be compared across the board. For example, the usual Intel CPU would need to clock at almost 6000Hz to compete with a 5800X at 4950Hz, generally speaking.

 

 

Basically you'll want either a heavily overclocked Intel with water cooling or a 5600x/5800x/5900x, 3600+ MHz CL16 memory of you want ultra preset, and at least an RTX 3080 (no AMD GPUs) in any case for the G2.

A 2080super is slower than a 3070 and more towards 3060 territory.

Thanks Fenris. Returning the pc is always an option, but the problem is lack of stock to be honest. Currently in the US, if one can find a decent card in stock (2080 Ti and up) they need to accept paying in the neighborhood of 2k USD if not more. To be honest, as much as I like to fly in VR, I’m not willing to spend that much on a GPU. that would bring the total cost to equivalent of a Bianchi XR4 frame, which I’d rather have. 
 

The G2 is supposed to ship in a week, once it comes, if it is unplayable, I guess i can return both. The only two types of games I play are racing and flying simulations, and that’s at a maximum of (perhaps) an hour each night, so that’s not a big loss if I have to shelve VR, and gaming, for another year. 

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7 hours ago, kissTheSky said:

Thanks Fenris. Returning the pc is always an option, but the problem is lack of stock to be honest. Currently in the US, if one can find a decent card in stock (2080 Ti and up) they need to accept paying in the neighborhood of 2k USD if not more. To be honest, as much as I like to fly in VR, I’m not willing to spend that much on a GPU. that would bring the total cost to equivalent of a Bianchi XR4 frame, which I’d rather have. 
 

The G2 is supposed to ship in a week, once it comes, if it is unplayable, I guess i can return both. The only two types of games I play are racing and flying simulations, and that’s at a maximum of (perhaps) an hour each night, so that’s not a big loss if I have to shelve VR, and gaming, for another year. 

 

I am on the same boat, always juggling my budget between outdoor stuff (biking, paragliding) and PC related stuff. I am also not willing to accept the current upgrade prices to my current computer and can live with another year of suboptimal VR experience. I'd suggest to play less demanding titles in the meantime. I know it's not everyone's cup of tea, but I find War Thunder to be a good intermediate solution in regards of flight simming and you will be able to get 90 fps at 100% with a 2080. In regards of racing sims, I strongly suggest Assetto Corsa. You will be able to run pretty much every scenario both on- and offline with reprojection 45fps on 100%. When you are into it, IRacing also has a very optimized engine and you'll probably even be able to run 90 fps on 100%. You might be able to run Automobilista 2, R3E and rFactor2 as well, but you'd have to dial down the supersampling to something like 60%. If you are into space sims, Star Wars Squadron might be thing, also quite easy on performance. A lot of nice simulators that don't need a rocket pc running them. 

 

If I have to choose between being a mole (Rift, Index and co) in all games/sims I like, or being forced to a few distinct ones but having a crystal clear picture (G2), I'd always go for the second option. In the meantime I am looking forward to the times I'll be able to enjoy Il2, DCS and co again. 

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4 hours ago, II./JG77_Manu* said:

 

I am on the same boat, always juggling my budget between outdoor stuff (biking, paragliding) and PC related stuff. I am also not willing to accept the current upgrade prices to my current computer and can live with another year of suboptimal VR experience. I'd suggest to play less demanding titles in the meantime. I know it's not everyone's cup of tea, but I find War Thunder to be a good intermediate solution in regards of flight simming and you will be able to get 90 fps at 100% with a 2080. In regards of racing sims, I strongly suggest Assetto Corsa. You will be able to run pretty much every scenario both on- and offline with reprojection 45fps on 100%. When you are into it, IRacing also has a very optimized engine and you'll probably even be able to run 90 fps on 100%. You might be able to run Automobilista 2, R3E and rFactor2 as well, but you'd have to dial down the supersampling to something like 60%. If you are into space sims, Star Wars Squadron might be thing, also quite easy on performance. A lot of nice simulators that don't need a rocket pc running them. 

 

If I have to choose between being a mole (Rift, Index and co) in all games/sims I like, or being forced to a few distinct ones but having a crystal clear picture (G2), I'd always go for the second option. In the meantime I am looking forward to the times I'll be able to enjoy Il2, DCS and co again. 

I am jealous;). I had to give up paragliding 25 years ago as I couldn’t afford it as a broke college student. Once I started working and had the disposable income, somehow never got back to it. To this day, it remains a regret. 
 

It’s good to know about Assetto Corsa, I’ve already had it installed and am trying to dial in the FFB settings. I just wish GPL was capable of VR as it is my absolute all time favorite. Never tried iRacing because of its subscription model, but probably will, if il2 does not work out. 

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2 hours ago, kissTheSky said:

I am jealous;). I had to give up paragliding 25 years ago as I couldn’t afford it as a broke college student. Once I started working and had the disposable income, somehow never got back to it. To this day, it remains a regret. 
 

It’s good to know about Assetto Corsa, I’ve already had it installed and am trying to dial in the FFB settings. I just wish GPL was capable of VR as it is my absolute all time favorite. Never tried iRacing because of its subscription model, but probably will, if il2 does not work out. 

 

Oh man yeah back in the day GPL was king.

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2 hours ago, dburne said:

 

Oh man yeah back in the day GPL was king.

Oh yeah! You should check it out Don. It’s no VR, but it’s been continually updated and kept alive by the community. With an updated install, many would refuse to believe it’s a 23 yo game. 
 

anyway, I digress, I apologize. 

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2 hours ago, dburne said:

 

Oh man yeah back in the day GPL was king.

 

25 minutes ago, kissTheSky said:

Oh yeah! You should check it out Don. It’s no VR, but it’s been continually updated and kept alive by the community. With an updated install, many would refuse to believe it’s a 23 yo game. 
 

anyway, I digress, I apologize. 

 

And if you need that VR fix, you could do worse than the GPL Mod for Assetto Corsa: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7RBP0qdP84

 

To bring things back on topic; after a good few months away from IL-2, this thread was my first stop as always.  I'm finding the latest recommeded settings to try and hit 90fps great.  I can't always keep it, and losing some of the eye-candy I had before at 45fps is taking a little getting used to, but I'm holding 90 more often than I thought possible.

 

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On 2/11/2021 at 7:14 PM, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

 

If you read my first post:

 

The higher the SS, the shorter the spotting range. That is why I recommended a maximum of 1.3 to the physical display. 2160*1.3 = 2808. That's the maximum

 

For IL-2, best to use 50% to 70% SS for the Reverb G2. It is true that 50% spots further than 70%.

 

 

It's part of the scaling of IL-2's engine. It's the way it is, unfortunately.:coffee:

 

 

It's just sad we have to decrease the SS because the IL2 engine limit us. It's like driving your car with a spare wheel. I think it's something the devs might revisit in the future because this problem will be worse in the future with better displays. This reminds me when people play other games with a 720p or a cropped image to gain some advantage over the opponents and that's just sad.

 

I tested with 60% SS and yes, I was spotting more dots but all of it was a mess, all was more blurried and less beautiful

Edited by E69_Qpassa_VR
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7 hours ago, E69_Qpassa_VR said:

It's just sad we have to decrease the SS because the IL2 engine limit us. It's like driving your car with a spare wheel. I think it's something the devs might revisit in the future because this problem will be worse in the future with better displays. This reminds me when people play other games with a 720p or a cropped image to gain some advantage over the opponents and that's just sad.

 

I tested with 60% SS and yes, I was spotting more dots but all of it was a mess, all was more blurried and less beautiful

Exactly.

 

It's like War Thunder at Ultra Low Quality. At least in 2017, I haven't logged in there since then. You'd drop all details, and there'd be no bushes for tanks to hide in anymore... :ph34r:

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hey OP, can you elaborate why you believe SSAO improves or does not reduce performance? You say you set SSAO_enable=1  does this imply only in the config.cfg file? You don't tick the box ingame?

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4 hours ago, rogueblade said:

Hey OP, can you elaborate why you believe SSAO improves or does not reduce performance? You say you set SSAO_enable=1  does this imply only in the config.cfg file? You don't tick the box ingame?

I was wondering about this too ... in the G2 start up config posted it's  ssao_enable = 0

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12 hours ago, J5_HellCat_ said:

I was wondering about this too ... in the G2 start up config posted it's  ssao_enable = 0

Sure. We benchmarked with SSAO 1 vs 0 many times, and 1 got better results - last year. It was like this in the past, but cloud rendering got changed a few times. 

 

I nowadays run with SSAO = 0 and HDR = 0, as HDR puts an exponentially increasing strain on the engine, the higher the resolution is. Secondary strong factors are cloud saturation in the mission and cloud quality setting. For example, in the Reverb G2 at higher resolutions HDR=1 absolutely choked my RTX 3090 on cloud heavy missions.

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3 hours ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

Sure. We benchmarked with SSAO 1 vs 0 many times, and 1 got better results - last year. It was like this in the past, but cloud rendering got changed a few times. 

 

I nowadays run with SSAO = 0 and HDR = 0, as HDR puts an exponentially increasing strain on the engine, the higher the resolution is. Secondary strong factors are cloud saturation in the mission and cloud quality setting. For example, in the Reverb G2 at higher resolutions HDR=1 absolutely choked my RTX 3090 on cloud heavy missions.

 

Got it  ....Thanks! I've been using your setting's and my experience has been good. Frames are high in general with very little stutter.

 

One question msaa vs fxaa what one is better for spotting ? I thought msaa was but not sure if that still stands ...Thanks again S~

Edited by J5_HellCat_
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6 hours ago, J5_HellCat_ said:

 

Got it  ....Thanks! I've been using your setting's and my experience has been good. Frames are high in general with very little stutter.

 

One question msaa vs fxaa what one is better for spotting ? I thought msaa was but not sure if that still stands ...Thanks again S~

MYaub2z.jpeg
FXAA is just blurring the edges in all game/engine. If you know what I mean.

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16 hours ago, J5_HellCat_ said:

 

Got it  ....Thanks! I've been using your setting's and my experience has been good. Frames are high in general with very little stutter.

 

One question msaa vs fxaa what one is better for spotting ? I thought msaa was but not sure if that still stands ...Thanks again S~

For pure spotting it would be neither. What is the less worse of the two options however is Msaa, but it comes with a performance hit.

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3 hours ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

For pure spotting it would be neither. What is the less worse of the two options however is Msaa, but it comes with a performance hit.

Hmmm....I experienced in another way, for me: Bigger MSAA--->Easier to ID planes.

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3 hours ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

For pure spotting it would be neither. What is the less worse of the two options however is Msaa, but it comes with a performance hit.

 Ok thanks  ....I'll mess around and see how bad of a hit it is for me with the EVGA 3080 FTW3. I like what I have going on at the moment in general but spotting and ID are always an issue.

2 minutes ago, -[HRAF]Roland_HUNter said:

Hmmm....I experienced in another way, for me: Bigger MSAA--->Easier to ID planes.

 

Interesting ....Time to test.

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38 minutes ago, HunDread said:

AA is bad for spotting but good for ID-ing

No AA is good for spotting bad for ID-ing

 

True, but I find that with MSAA, my experience is more like:

 

with MSAA: very, very minor reduction in spotting (Frankly, I've found it makes no difference to me in-terms of gameplay and my ability to spot long range contacts before they spot me.) But it does provide a massive improvement in mid-close range IDing

 

without AA:  slight increase in spotting ability - significant decrease in mid-close range IDing (to the point of jeopardizing my ability to make quick decisions due to inability to quickly determine contact threat level) 

 

The method for MSAA is "smarter" than older styles and for our use case, it is pretty good at not erasing/softening contacts out of the sky in comparison to older AA methods. If your system can afford to run it, I really think 4x MSAA is the way to go.

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12 minutes ago, SCG_Wulfe said:

 

True, but I find that with MSAA, my experience is more like:

 

with MSAA: very, very minor reduction in spotting (Frankly, I've found it makes no difference to me in-terms of gameplay and my ability to spot long range contacts before they spot me.) But it does provide a massive improvement in mid-close range IDing

 

without AA:  slight increase in spotting ability - significant decrease in mid-close range IDing (to the point of jeopardizing my ability to make quick decisions due to inability to quickly determine contact threat level) 

 

The method for MSAA is "smarter" than older styles and for our use case, it is pretty good at not erasing/softening contacts out of the sky in comparison to older AA methods. If your system can afford to run it, I really think 4x MSAA is the way to go.

 

I agree with you there. Just wanted to (over)simplify the difference in spotting vs ID-ing in relation to AA to avoid misunderstandings.

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Hi! 

 

A big thanks for the amazing work done on this, it has made all the difference for me. 

 

With your recommended settings I got it working decent (60 fps) with a 1080 and with great spotting on a G2.

However I finally upgraded to 3080 and without making any software changes I fired the game up and graphics have improved, FPS are a steady 80-90, but spotting is much worse. I cant understand why the spotting has changed when settings in IL2 and Steam (I run at 60%) are unchanged. 

 

The only reason I can come up with are the settings in Mixed Reality Portal, where Experience options are set to "let windows decide" by default. Any suggestions on these (or other settings) that would return me to better spotting? 

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4 hours ago, axelaxe said:

Hi! 

 

A big thanks for the amazing work done on this, it has made all the difference for me. 

 

With your recommended settings I got it working decent (60 fps) with a 1080 and with great spotting on a G2.

However I finally upgraded to 3080 and without making any software changes I fired the game up and graphics have improved, FPS are a steady 80-90, but spotting is much worse. I cant understand why the spotting has changed when settings in IL2 and Steam (I run at 60%) are unchanged. 

 

The only reason I can come up with are the settings in Mixed Reality Portal, where Experience options are set to "let windows decide" by default. Any suggestions on these (or other settings) that would return me to better spotting? 

 

Just guessing but it's possible that with the 1080 your settings (I'm thinking of WMR) were defaulted to some restrictions like half resolution and with the 3080 you are automatically at full resolution.

 

That would explain both the improving graphics, which should not be the case without any changes, and the worse spotting. Lower resolution helps spotting.

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1 hour ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

- 09.04.2021 Update

- New Absolute Quality VR settings for Reverb G2 ("How to use SS100% / Motion Smoothing while AVOIDING artifacts!")

Thanks for all the work, it has made my VR experience miles better than when I started. 
In the quality settings you say to disable MSAA but then in the startup.cfg excerpt you have MSAA = 1

Is this correct?

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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, TCW_Brzi_Joe said:

How is spotting on long distance with that ss 100%?

It seems it is fine. I spotted some earlier, some later. Clear skies I made 12km vs 13km against a 1440p. Against ground, I could spot much easier than any monitor test, radically so. The Reverb G2 lets the targets pop into the foreground much more.

 

It seems to depend on how the distortion profile is bend by the headsets themselves. 100% on the Reverb G2 is the correct value to get a 1:1 render:pixel relation in the center. So it is not supersampling, and 60% is undersampling. :gamer:

 

 

Excourse:

The main issue seem to be most pronounced with the older OLED headsets or when you supersample above 100% (SteamVR SS value is accurate), and was with the Pimax headsets which were all over the place in this regard. My Pimax 8KX tests are from autumn 2020 however, when I sold the 8KX to switch to Reverb G2. If you still got the 8KX maybe you can run some tests: You can either try it in Quick Missions using record, or online with a buddy, start private server, clear skies. Fly towards each other till you see each other, then have him turn around and fly away while you record (add TacView if you want to) and keep eyes on him. When he disappears you take note. Repeat this with several devices from your end and then take the average. Do it in a way that you keep the same system running to log the distance, the same map, same time (sun), the same settings, the same environment, and see that he flies the same direction (very important to not trigger methological invisibilities of the game). :ph34r:

Edited by SCG_Fenris_Wolf
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@Kami_K220

1. I don't know your setup, but: Many using Intel systems still get short frametime spikes. Every time there is a frametime spike, Motion Smoothing breaks and heavily artifacts. 

 

2. If a GPU cannot handle 55-60fps, we should not attempt to lock Motion Smoothing at 45Hz. If the system dips below 45fps and cannot feed the approximation anymore, Motion Smoothing breaks and heavily artifacts.

 

Motion Smoothing needs 2-3s to "calm down" properly. If by that time another performance issue / frametime spike hits, you may experience constant artifacting.

 

 

Legend:

fps = produced true frames per second

Hz = 1/s

 

 

P.S. 

You can monitor frametime behavior using fpsVR. SteamVR's inbuilt GPU graph flattens the spikes and doesn't display CPU. If you get frametime spikes during VR use, and you're running on an Intel system with an overclock - search for solutions online. It's your best bet. The reasons can be vastly different, but most likely related to improper overclocks, improper voltage settings as a result, misaligned RAM frequencies, etc. The same applies to AMD users with misaligned FCLK/MCLK, but they're much smoother in VR from my experience. Good luck! 

Edited by SCG_Fenris_Wolf
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