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SCG_Fenris_Wolf

Copy/Paste settings for best spotting and ID! Odyssey+, Pimax5K+, Rift S, Reverb!

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Posted (edited)

Regarding 2. yes, it is because you haven't kept your Apps up-to-date, or because you haven't used the App "Windows Mixed Reality for SteamVR" to launch SteamVR. 

 

If in doubt, or something is off, you can always take a look at the first post. Everything is written in there, this as well, even with a Link to it. 👍

 

Regarding 1. , 60Hz gives a lot of headroom and on the Reverb Pro v2 panels does not flicker. It also does not introduce tracking stutter, especially translational, or an uneven frametime leading to a lot of ghosting - which is very prominent at 90Hz with 80fps already. That would kill ability to spot well. 60Hz might be a bad idea on Amoled panels or low grade LCD panels, but on these, it works very well.

Edited by SCG_Fenris_Wolf
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Posted (edited)

Thanks for the tips @SCG_Fenris_Wolf and @TWC_NINja. I did not have the latest Windows Update. After I did that, the fish-eye effect was gone.

The problem for me now is that 60hz is very distracting to my eye, it looks like a constant flickering, kinda what an old TV screen looks like when you record video of it. I guess I have grown used to 90hz. Is that something you get used to, or do I have something configured incorrectly?

Edited by QB.Creep

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5 hours ago, QB.Creep said:

Thanks for the tips @SCG_Fenris_Wolf and @TWC_NINja. I did not have the latest Windows Update. After I did that, the fish-eye effect was gone.

The problem for me now is that 60hz is very distracting to my eye, it looks like a constant flickering, kinda what an old TV screen looks like when you record video of it. I guess I have grown used to 90hz. Is that something you get used to, or do I have something configured incorrectly?

 

Either the latter, or HP uses different panels within the same series. Does not flicker here.

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5 hours ago, QB.Creep said:

Thanks for the tips @SCG_Fenris_Wolf and @TWC_NINja. I did not have the latest Windows Update. After I did that, the fish-eye effect was gone.

The problem for me now is that 60hz is very distracting to my eye, it looks like a constant flickering, kinda what an old TV screen looks like when you record video of it. I guess I have grown used to 90hz. Is that something you get used to, or do I have something configured incorrectly?

 

I may just be that you are more sensitive. With 60hz you have a longer black frame insertion interval. This is the tech they use to reduce motion blur. IMO you should always use the highest refresh rate you can maintain. 

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Posted (edited)

Doesn't align properly with tracking though as soon as you drop frames per second below 90Hz you'll lose that tracking synchronisation, with the frametime jumping all over the place. Which leads to the stuttery movement and neck- as well as eye-pain.

 

HP buy these panels in bulks on the market and don't produce them themselves, their prod job is mostly the case and assembly. There are various versions of panels going around within the same headset series, as well as inconsistent quality control. If you see flickering, go 90Hz and tune down graphical quality. It might be interference of other displays. All my monitors run at 60Hz too. Hell, I've had a WiFi card create interference with the Rift CV1. 

 

It's not personal sensitivity: 

 

I just checked another headset at 60Hz and see it dampened and a bit flickery. The Reverb Pro v2 does not do that, so I guess I am just lucky and can run them at 60Hz, like @SCG_motoadve as well. On the unfortunate side, I have a bit of mura, which motoadve has almost nothing of. Also, I see the edges of the displays when looking straight ahead.

Edited by SCG_Fenris_Wolf
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17 hours ago, QB.Creep said:

Thanks for the tips @SCG_Fenris_Wolf and @TWC_NINja. I did not have the latest Windows Update. After I did that, the fish-eye effect was gone.

The problem for me now is that 60hz is very distracting to my eye, it looks like a constant flickering, kinda what an old TV screen looks like when you record video of it. I guess I have grown used to 90hz. Is that something you get used to, or do I have something configured incorrectly?

 

I have a Reverb running at 60Hz and it's not flickering... either I'm not sensitive to it due to old age, or I'm lucky that my headset runs fine at that refresh rate.

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On 6/10/2020 at 3:35 PM, TWC_NINja said:

 

I have a Reverb running at 60Hz and it's not flickering... either I'm not sensitive to it due to old age, or I'm lucky that my headset runs fine at that refresh rate.

 

Same here.  Running the latest update of Windows Mixed Reality for WIndows 10.   Good performance and great picture at 60hz on HP Reverb.  To TWC_NINja's point above, my eyes are 59 years old if that has anything to do with it. 

 

I get flickering during some of the loading sequences in the game but it's always done that, and pretty common from what I've heard..   

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Doesn't setting to 60hz also reduce FOV?

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Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, SCG_Wulfe said:

Doesn't setting to 60hz also reduce FOV?

No, that was a bugged distortion profile of an older WMR version. The windows WMR update is linked to in the first post. As I said there, not everyone can receive it by simply using Windows' "search update" function, for example most Europeans cannot. It simply doesn't roll out. Maybe the same is true for Canada.

 

You must use the link in my first post. It's described there how to update WMR portal, in the first point regarding WMR👍

Edited by SCG_Fenris_Wolf

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6 minutes ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

No. That was a bugged distortion profile of an older WMR version. The windows WMR update is linked to in the first post. As I said there, not everyone can receive it by simply using Windows' "search update" function, for example most Europeans cannot. It simply doesn't roll out. Maybe the same is true for Canada.

 

You must use the link in my first post. It's described there how to update WMR portal, in the first point regarding WMR

 

Hmm I should have read more carefully I guess. 

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Posted (edited)
On 6/10/2020 at 8:25 AM, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

 

Either the latter, or HP uses different panels within the same series. Does not flicker here.

 

I guess I'm one of the unlucky ones who own a V2 Reverb, and get flicker at 60Hz even with the new update.  It's not terrible, certainly not unplayable, and even quite fluid, but it just gives me an uneasy feeling, similar to if the IPD is wildly off.  If the Reverb never had 90Hz, I might be able to learn to live with it.  But, as soon as I switch back to 90Hz/fps, which I tend to be able to hold about half of the time, the difference is obvious.  Even 45fps with artifacting/ghosting/wobbling is much, much easier on my eyes. 

 

My tv, which is the only screen connected to my pcs for years, is 60Hz, so it's not that I'm particularly sensitive.  Sucks for me I guess.

Edited by Dijital_Majik

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@QB.Creep and @Dijital_Majik and anyone else experiencing flickering...

 

Just a wild shot here... but have you guys tried unplugging and re-plugging the headset, or maybe a different port altogether. And restarting, of course, after doing... 

I'm really sorry to hear that some peeps are not able to take advantage of the extra frametime headroom offered by 60Hz.

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, TWC_NINja said:

@QB.Creep and @Dijital_Majik and anyone else experiencing flickering...

 

Just a wild shot here... but have you guys tried unplugging and re-plugging the headset, or maybe a different port altogether. And restarting, of course, after doing... 

I'm really sorry to hear that some peeps are not able to take advantage of the extra frametime headroom offered by 60Hz.

 

I have a powered USB hub after troubleshooting a multitude of VR issues months ago - I am confident that the problem is either with my eyeballs or my specific HP Reverb Pro headset. Sometimes even when I have WMR set for 90hz, it reverts to 60hz. I notice it right away - typically killing the WMR processes and restarting it fixes that. 60hz is just too distracting to my eye - I notice it and to me it doesn't look anywhere near as good as 90hz.

Edited by QB.Creep

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21 minutes ago, TWC_NINja said:

@QB.Creep and @Dijital_Majik and anyone else experiencing flickering...

 

Just a wild shot here... but have you guys tried unplugging and re-plugging the headset, or maybe a different port altogether. And restarting, of course, after doing... 

I'm really sorry to hear that some peeps are not able to take advantage of the extra frametime headroom offered by 60Hz.

 

Thanks, I'll try it, but not hopeful as my headset's usb gets unplugged after every session, and has it's own dedicated "VR-ready" (whatever that means) usb port on my mobo.   I'll have a go playing with the display port though.

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Posted (edited)

Are you sure you have reprojection disabled? Enabling that with 60Hz you'll want to avoid. To be honest, I suspect differences in production / assembly by humans / insufficient quality control. The first Reverb I had gotten last year wouldn't work at all, and this one does really well at 60Hz. If I switch to 60Hz in the old Odyssey, the picture goes flickery as well.

 

If you prefer 90Hz, by all means, stick to it. Temporal accuracy in movement (90Hz) is a quality as well, for both spotting and also proper gunnery.

Edited by SCG_Fenris_Wolf

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Pimax 5k+, large fov, pp=off, copy/paste for VREM:

( C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\IL-2 Sturmovik Battle of Stalingrad\bin\game\ d3dx_user.ini )

 

$ipdmode = 0
$binocularmask = 0
$sharpenvalue = 0
$sharpenluma = 0
$cloudimprovement = 0
$\users_settings\user_keymapping_zoom.ini\zoomxshadownorm = 0
$\users_settings\user_keymapping_zoom.ini\zoomxoffsetlow = 0.0449999869
$\users_settings\user_keymapping_zoom.ini\zoomxshadowlow = 0.0449999869
$\users_settings\user_keymapping_zoom.ini\zoomyoffsetlow = 0
$\users_settings\user_keymapping_zoom.ini\maskxoffsetlow = 0
$\users_settings\user_keymapping_zoom.ini\zoomxoffsetmed = 0.254999995
$\users_settings\user_keymapping_zoom.ini\zoomxshadowmed = 0.24000001
$\users_settings\user_keymapping_zoom.ini\maskxoffsetmed = 0
$\users_settings\user_keymapping_zoom.ini\zoomxoffsethigh = 0.569999695
$\users_settings\user_keymapping_zoom.ini\zoomxshadowhigh = 0.135000005
$\users_settings\user_keymapping_zoom.ini\maskxoffsethigh = 0
$\users_settings\user_keymapping_zoom.ini\ipdxoffsetvalue = 0
 

PS: biggest zoom must be L.ctrl+Numpad4, others defoult

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Has anyone made a comparison of spotting in Pimax parallel projection mode vs regular? I got a Pimax Artisan last week and have been slowly progressing through teething problems. After comparing PP and non-PP mode tonight I am convinced that IL2 out-of-the-box doesn't quite support the canted displays properly. Things look mostly right but there is a weird effect somehow that I don't get in PP mode. PP also allows me to zoom properly without using VREM (which does an admirable job of trying to fix the convergence but frankly it just looks like arse).

 

But I have a suspicion that PP mode isn't just a horrible 40% performance tax. I suspect it's smushing pixels a fair bit too -- wondered if anyone has tried to get good spotting in PP mode.

 

At the moment I almost have too many variables to consider:

  • PP mode working zoom but crushing pixels, 40% performance tax vs 'native' slightly-wonky 3D effect + sort-of-works VREM zoom
  • 72hz / 90hz / 120hz modes, and whether I run smart smoothing
  • Versions of PiTool (254a gives me best FPS, but the headset was disconnecting from it, 260 seems stable)
  • GPU catalyst OMGWTFBBQ
  • My eyes still aren't in the sweet spot for the lenses, I need to fiddle with the pads

Anyone know of a no-controllers-required VR testing tool? I just want some basic stuff to look at while I adjust the headset, maybe a simple eye chart or something. The ROV tool people talk about needs controllers, I just have a game pad.

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Posted (edited)

@Alonzo

 

Hey, man, welcome to Pimax! I have a 5K+. I switched from PP to no PP right away. I have spent considerable time since the deferred shading and MSAA update seeing how well I can improve spotting because that always seems to be my biggest issue (but now always with PP off). So, with the injector ban that means zooming with one eye (you can get used to it).

 

Anyway, I have tried a number of different configurations. For the longest time I was at 64ghz, 1.75 PT with .25 Steam SS. I also use Fenris's startup config file. Since the update and adding MSAA (along with the processing demand), I dropped down for a time to 1.5 PT and Steam SS .20, but the visuals were a definite downgrade. Spotting did improve, especially with shadows on (I am currently using 3). I also began playing around with the ghz and Brainwarp and settled on 110ghz, but with reprojection. I  have never liked reprojection because of ghosting, but it is now very minimal (but for mine it needs to be the 55/110 combination rather than the 45/90). And the bulk of the time the image is very smooth. When flying high enough on some maps I even hit 110fps. The ghosting when in a turn fight does not interfere with IDing.

 

Anyway, I am now testing  an odd configuration (with surprisingly good results in terms of spotting, visuals, and performance). So far it works well in Quick Match, as well as a sortie yesterday in Wol. My idea was to see how far I can drop Steam SS so that I can get PT 2.0. I currently have Steam SS set to 0.20 and the app for Il2 set to 65. With PT set to 2.0 this still give me an in-game SS of 20%. I can't achieve the hoped for vertical resolution of 2040 with this. But it is just under.

 

So, that doesn't help with your question about spotting in PP mode. Honestly, I think you have to go without it.

 

Today, I will test CB. I hope I can maintain 55fps!

 

(I have a 4.8ghz CPU with a 1080ti).

 

Update: it seems pushing PT to 2.0 and down-sampling steam ss to achieve vertical 2000 is somehow more taxing on my GPU than keeping PT lower. Oh well. (CB and Finnish kept dropping into the low 40s.) I will continue with @SCG_Fenris_Wolf base-line recommendations at the top of the thread.

 

Current:

PT 1.5, Steam SS 0.26, MSAAx2, Shadows 4, which gives me a vertical resolution of 2004. This, as Fenris has suggested, gives the best spotting with good-enough visuals. PP off.  One-eyed zoom. :)

 

Edited by SCG_redcloud111

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You need to find the best for your system. You may try 254a. If it's working, don`t change it any more. 

If your system has stuttering, then try latest pitool with cpu utilisation on 0.0

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If I use OpenComposite to bypass SteamVR, do I need to set my SteamVR super-sampling to manual and 100% first?

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3 hours ago, rogueblade said:

If I use OpenComposite to bypass SteamVR, do I need to set my SteamVR super-sampling to manual and 100% first?

 

SteamVR won't even be running in that case. I would use OpenComposite (all defaults, don't fiddle with it) plus Oculus Tray Tool (OTT). OTT lets you set a bunch of stuff including supersample (pixel density) and ASW on/off, on a per-game basis.

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6 hours ago, Alonzo said:

 

SteamVR won't even be running in that case. I would use OpenComposite (all defaults, don't fiddle with it) plus Oculus Tray Tool (OTT). OTT lets you set a bunch of stuff including supersample (pixel density) and ASW on/off, on a per-game basis.

 

Yes this. I use Open Composite with my Rift S and am quite happy with it.

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10 hours ago, rogueblade said:

If I use OpenComposite to bypass SteamVR, do I need to set my SteamVR super-sampling to manual and 100% first?

 

If you are not using it for anything else, you can even uninstall steamVR when using opencomposite.

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16 hours ago, Alonzo said:

 

SteamVR won't even be running in that case. I would use OpenComposite (all defaults, don't fiddle with it) plus Oculus Tray Tool (OTT). OTT lets you set a bunch of stuff including supersample (pixel density) and ASW on/off, on a per-game basis.

Cool, I'm trying this now. Do you turn GPU Scaling off by any chance?

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Since the new Il2 zooms came in, I am having lots of trouble identifying aircraft. Spotting them is easy enough, but when I use the zooms (especially the higher zooms) the background seems closer (as expected) but the aircraft I am trying to identify actually seem smaller. In other words, I’m not zooming in on aircraft, just background. I don’t know, I am not reading much about people having trouble so is it just me? I have a pimax 5k+ which I am pretty happy with and obviously was identifying very nicely with migoto before the changes.  Is this just how it is now? I can’t help thinking I am missing something.

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@ZiggyZiggyStar developer decided to make it that way, to compensate human eye visibility vs HMDs/monitors. After a few hundred meters you see just a spot instead a plane, with or without zooming. Looks un-natural.

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1 hour ago, Brzi_Joe said:

@ZiggyZiggyStar developer decided to make it that way, to compensate human eye visibility vs HMDs/monitors. After a few hundred meters you see just a spot instead a plane, with or without zooming. Looks un-natural.

Thanks Brzi_Joe, I have only played in VR. Do the flat screen players get a zoom in which helps ID or does everyone spot without ‘ID’ing just like VR players? I know all about the controversy whereby the flat screeners considered there was too much of an advantage with Migoto mod but this seems to have gone too far the other way. Is this a fair balance? 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, ZiggyZiggyStar said:

Thanks Brzi_Joe, I have only played in VR. Do the flat screen players get a zoom in which helps ID or does everyone spot without ‘ID’ing just like VR players? I know all about the controversy whereby the flat screeners considered there was too much of an advantage with Migoto mod but this seems to have gone too far the other way. Is this a fair balance? 

 

As far as I know both VR and 2D zoom is equally 30 degrees. Anything more sophisticated system that takes actual gameplay experience and competitiveness into consideration would take time and work, and on top of that the devs would probaly be attacked again. So as much I would like to see the system improved it doesn't sound like a good deal overall.

Edited by HunDread
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19 hours ago, ZiggyZiggyStar said:

Since the new Il2 zooms came in, I am having lots of trouble identifying aircraft. Spotting them is easy enough, but when I use the zooms (especially the higher zooms) the background seems closer (as expected) but the aircraft I am trying to identify actually seem smaller. In other words, I’m not zooming in on aircraft, just background. I don’t know, I am not reading much about people having trouble so is it just me? I have a pimax 5k+ which I am pretty happy with and obviously was identifying very nicely with migoto before the changes.  Is this just how it is now? I can’t help thinking I am missing something.

 

Try using PP mode and disable the VREM mod. This will suck from a performance perspective, but it will let you experience the zoom as the developers intended on the Pimax. From my experience in both PP and non-PP mode (with VREM for zoom fix) the zoom works fine and allows me a chance to ID aircraft.

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6 hours ago, Alonzo said:

 

Try using PP mode and disable the VREM mod. This will suck from a performance perspective, but it will let you experience the zoom as the developers intended on the Pimax. From my experience in both PP and non-PP mode (with VREM for zoom fix) the zoom works fine and allows me a chance to ID aircraft.


Hi Alonzo, thanks for replying. I already use the native zoom with PP enabled. I’ve never used VREM.I have a 2080Ti  so I’m lucky to have some grunt. However, I just don’t feel I am zooming in on planes for ID, the planes don’t change in size to enable this, just the background. Is this an individual perception thing?

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4 hours ago, ZiggyZiggyStar said:

Hi Alonzo, thanks for replying. I already use the native zoom with PP enabled. I’ve never used VREM.I have a 2080Ti  so I’m lucky to have some grunt. However, I just don’t feel I am zooming in on planes for ID, the planes don’t change in size to enable this, just the background. Is this an individual perception thing?

 

It seems quite strange to me. With PP on and native zoom at maximum, I get a good zoom and can ID fairly easily. Maybe other things are funny with your settings? IPD could somehow be set wrong or something? You could try the SteamVR "room" for adjusting your settings. It's the ROV testing room, it has things like an eye chart and text to read. Maybe do some headset adjustments while in that room, then try IL2 again.

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4 hours ago, Alonzo said:

 

It seems quite strange to me. With PP on and native zoom at maximum, I get a good zoom and can ID fairly easily. Maybe other things are funny with your settings? IPD could somehow be set wrong or something? You could try the SteamVR "room" for adjusting your settings. It's the ROV testing room, it has things like an eye chart and text to read. Maybe do some headset adjustments while in that room, then try IL2 again.


Thanks, I will give this a try. There are so many settings with pitool, steam vr and in-game to adjust, maybe I have yet to get it right.

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17 minutes ago, ZiggyZiggyStar said:


Thanks, I will give this a try. There are so many settings with pitool, steam vr and in-game to adjust, maybe I have yet to get it right.

It almost sounds like alternate spotting is enabled in the difficulty settings. Under that system contacts are up-scaled quite large at long distances to make them easier to spot, and when you zoom in they don't get any bigger because they already appear to be closer than they are - the fabled 'inverse zoom' problem. It's only when they get close enough that no scaling is applied that zoom works in the way you'd expect. 

Is "Alternate Spotting" checked in the game difficulty settings?

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Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, RedKestrel said:

 

It almost sounds like alternate spotting is enabled in the difficulty settings. Under that system contacts are up-scaled quite large at long distances to make them easier to spot, and when you zoom in they don't get any bigger because they already appear to be closer than they are - the fabled 'inverse zoom' problem. It's only when they get close enough that no scaling is applied that zoom works in the way you'd expect. 

Is "Alternate Spotting" checked in the game difficulty settings?


Hmm, very good point, I will check that when I get home.

 

Edit: RedKestrel, thank you you are right. I have unchecked ‘Alternate Spotting” and now when I zoom in, I do zoom in. I think the IDing is also much better too.

Edited by ZiggyZiggyStar

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Yo, guys, how do screen resolution affects performance and spotting in vr? all i can see that multiplayer "radio chat" is becoming hard to read on a low res setting.

And @SCG_Fenris_Wolf, your link to guide made by Teigue stopped working. That was actually a good piece of info

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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, LutzBY said:

your link to guide made by Teigue stopped working.

There is a problem with whole OpenMR forum, it will come back soon, that is not the first time.

Edited by Brzi_Joe
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