Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
EdgeOfTheRazor

Planes are Nice But

Recommended Posts

l would really love to see more armor in IL-2 from 1C Game Studios/777, a PzIV F2 and a T-34/41 panzers and a campaign would be great. War Thunder does it small maybe IL-2 can do it on a grandeur scale. Make the player fill there part of a larger armor thrust attacking or defending moscow/stalingrad/kuban. Planes are nice, tanks/Panzers are awesome :)..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

l would really love to see more armor in IL-2 from 1C Game Studios/777, a PzIV F2 and a T-34/41 panzers and a campaign would be great. War Thunder does it small maybe IL-2 can do it on a grandeur scale. Make the player fill there part of a larger armor thrust attacking or defending moscow/stalingrad/kuban. Planes are nice, tanks/Panzers are awesome :)..

 

Yes, as noted above - a full tank sim is being developed.

 

tank_crew_artwork_kv1s_en.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lots of us are chomping at bit for added tank content.

 

Im also excited for the ww1 content.

 

We are spoiled!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My gamer`s dream is to fly specialist fighter squadron that escorts specialist Jabo/bomber that supports specialist armor panzer formations fighting down low on the ground.

 

Maybe some day we can all toghether cooperate in a war front sortie on a TS channel. That makes me respect BoX developers who think BIG and make rational decisions.


Needs infantry, tanks-only would be stale.

Couldn`t we circumvent that? AT guns units, maybe?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh god yes!! , thankQ for pointing this out, its on my to buy list as of now. Nice KV-1 now for the PzIV F2 to kill it :)..

 

Better than that 

 

 

Playable Tanks and Content (Tentative List):

- T-34-76 STZ

- KV-1s

- M4A2

- SU-122

- SU-152

- GAZ-MM + 72K

- PzKpfw III Ausf.L

- PzKpfw IV Ausf.G

- PzKpfw V Ausf.D

- PzKpfw VI Ausf.H1

- Sd. Kfz. 184

- Sd. Kfz. 10 + Flak38

Edited by Dakpilot

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Do you think that the russian tanks will be able to fight against the german ones ? 

 

In close quarters urban conflict I have no doubts but in the fields, long range engagements, the 76mm russian canon that'll equip most of the tank may not be able to do much, at least not against tigers and panthers.

 

The su 152 can but it'll be hard to drive, hard to aim and the reload will take ages.

 

On the other side every tanks except the pz III have nice canons that should be able to pierce the kv1's thick armor even at long range.

 

So do you think it'll be kind of the same as battle of stalingrad with a noticeable german superiority ?

 

And don't say I forgot the su-122 because it's a pure infantry support tank, same purpose as the churchill AVRE.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Couldn`t we circumvent that? AT guns units, maybe?

No, considering that some of the most used AT weapons on the Eastern Front were PTR rifles the Russian infantry used and could penetrate the side of Panther tanks at ~100m before side skirts were added. Since a 2-man crew for the PTRD could be far better hidden then any anti-tank gun, German crews, had respect for them. AT rifle crews were trained to aim specifically at running gear and vision periscopes to reduce mission capability of the tank. Both sides' infantry had anti-tank grenades that would be deadly to any tank if it landed on them, especially the German Hafthohlladung magnetic grenade

If we go later in the war, and specifically Western front, we will be missing a large amount of AT threats that are as, if not more deadly then AT guns, those being Panzerschreck, Bazooka, and Panzerfausts.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Needs infantry, tanks-only would be stale.

Ill be more than happy if its tanks only.

 

Yes, Id love infantry but would it be practical? 

 

I rather have tanks and no inf than nothing at all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ill be more than happy if its tanks only.

 

Yes, Id love infantry but would it be practical? 

 

I rather have tanks and no inf than nothing at all.

The whole purpose of tanks being created was to support the infantry, infantry need tanks to breakthrough, tanks need infantry to support from close range threats

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Prokhorovka section of Kursk is more famous for tank battles (although of course there were infantry)

 

Cheers, Dakpilot

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The whole purpose of tanks being created was to support the infantry, infantry need tanks to breakthrough, tanks need infantry to support from close range threats

yes, but that's reality and the game already makes so many concessions to give playability already.

 

Tanks alone, for me, are fine :)

 

YMMV.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

yes, but that's reality and the game already makes so many concessions to give playability already.

 

Tanks alone, for me, are fine :)

 

YMMV.

Go play War Blunder then. Even DCS models infantry squads, and tank sims like Steel Beasts, Steel Fury/Armor have infantry modeled

Edited by RoflSeal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Go play War Blunder then. Even DCS models infantry squads, and tank sims like Steel Beasts, Steel Fury/Armor have infantry modeled

That's not a great argument to be honest.

 

Also, one game's development does not equal anothers.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Do you think that the russian tanks will be able to fight against the german ones ? 

... the 76mm russian canon that'll equip most of the tank may not be able to do much, at least not against tigers and panthers.

 

Well, that is how it was - it must have been sheer hell for Russian tank crews to find Tigers or Panthers among the German ranks.

But Tigers were rather rare, and Panthers came even later AND were rare.

The Pzkw III and IV were the mainstay of the German tank armies.

 

For well-made online server campaigns, it might then be essential to give the Germans only Tigers, where they appeared historically correct.

And then give the German side Pzkw. III and IV mostly, and only a limited amount of Tigers or Panthers (again historically suiting).

And when they get killed, they cannot be replaced in that round.

Would that be fair enough?

Edited by Wolfram-Harms

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's not a great argument to be honest.

 

Also, one game's development does not equal anothers.

It sets expectations of what a type of game should have, in this game, a tank sim should have infantry modeled. If you want tanks only, you go down the WarBlunder/WoT route, which are not simulations in any way of tank combat.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It sets expectations of what a type of game should have, in this game, a tank sim should have infantry modeled. If you want tanks only, you go down the WarBlunder/WoT route, which are not simulations in any way of tank combat.

What *should* be in game and what *can* be are very different things.

 

I wont play WT as it's not to my taste.

 

Ill happily play with tanks (and indeed do) in BoX.

 

Heck, id be happy to drive a train in it.

 

The lack of infantry  is no reason *not* to have armour in game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

For well-made online server campaigns, it might then be essential to give the Germans only Tigers, where they appeared historically correct.

And then give the German side Pzkw. III and IV mostly, and only a limited amount of Tigers or Panthers (again historically suiting).

And when they get killed, they cannot be replaced in that round.

Would that be fair enough?

Needless to say, Germans weren`t stupid to just throw those randomly on the front. Tigers were often formed into battalions used exclusively for the defence on the spaces where the frontlines were breached or nearly breached by Soviets.

 

It`s a classic case of managing the limited reasources in the best way as possible. Same they did with aircraft which would appear in superior numbers in some of the engagements. I think that should be mirrored in games aswell.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Before the Panther, Tiger, and PZKW IVF and later models the T-34 and KV-1 were unstopable by German AT guns. Only the 88mm Flak gun used in AT role could stop them. 

Well, that is how it was - it must have been sheer hell for Russian tank crews to find Tigers or Panthers among the German ranks.

But Tigers were rather rare, and Panthers came even later AND were rare.
The Pzkw III and IV were the mainstay of the German tank armies.

 

For well-made online server campaigns, it might then be essential to give the Germans only Tigers, where they appeared historically correct.
And then give the German side Pzkw. III and IV mostly, and only a limited amount of Tigers or Panthers (again historically suiting).
And when they get killed, they cannot be replaced in that round.

Would that be fair enough?

This is the idea. Also the Panther and Tiger were expensive, complicated, and difficult to repair. The Russian tanks were much simpler and easier to manufacture so losses were easy to replace.

 

Needless to say, Germans weren`t stupid to just throw those randomly on the front. Tigers were often formed into battalions used exclusively for the defence on the spaces where the frontlines were breached or nearly breached by Soviets.

 

It`s a classic case of managing the limited reasources in the best way as possible. Same they did with aircraft which would appear in superior numbers in some of the engagements. I think that should be mirrored in games aswell.

They didn't randomly throw them at the front, but they were limited in number 

The Tiger battalions or rather the mobile defence battalions, were used in 1944 when the Germans were being pushed back, and didn't have the resources to defend the entire front all at once. 

The Germans were superior at range though due to their excellent optics.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Needs infantry, tanks-only would be stale.

 

I've been barking up this tree for a long time now.  While I would love to see this, it would take a real overhaul of the game's framework to accommodate.  That is the only reason I don't think we would see it.  But otherwise I agree completely.

 

My gamer`s dream is to fly specialist fighter squadron that escorts specialist Jabo/bomber that supports specialist armor panzer formations fighting down low on the ground.

 

Maybe some day we can all together cooperate in a war front sortie on a TS channel. That makes me respect BoX developers who think BIG and make rational decisions.

Couldn`t we circumvent that? AT guns units, maybe?

 

I believe infantry would add more depth and potential to this game than just more vehicles.

 

Ill be more than happy if its tanks only.

 

Yes, Id love infantry but would it be practical? 

 

I rather have tanks and no inf than nothing at all.

 

Think bigger man!  Imagine rolling into a target area in your IL-2 or BF-110, armed to the teeth, to help out an infantry squad engaged in a city being fought over.  They tell you their situation and that they need help, you oblige.  As you get close, you let them know you are inbound, and need landmarks to ID the enemy positions.  They say they will pop smoke on their lines, to drop to the east about 100m of the smoke.  You see the red smoke start to billow up in the middle of this town.  You can't see anything really, too many building and trees, but you see that smoke and you know to put your ordinance to the east of it.  You swoop in, drop some bombs, and egress out low for another attack.  The guys on the ground call good drop, but an enemy tank is still advancing toward them and they can't stop him.  You pull back around, line up, and radio in that you are inbound again.  Once again they give you some landmarks, maybe smoke again, and there it is... in the middle of the road slowly pushing west.  You can't see much, just some tracers, explosions, and smoke from the cannons... but you see that tank because he just fired.  He doesn't even see you because he is too worried about the infantry he and his fellow teammates are trying to dethrone from the objective.  You line up, arm your cannons, and take aim.  As the tank grows in your gun sight you begin to see small people running around, shooting, and all sorts of madness.  You squeeze the trigger and unload into the tank.  Explosions and sparks are going everywhere!  The noise on the ground is thunderous!  The people fighting have no clue what is happening except that tank that was about to punch through has just exploded and is burning.  The guys inside are getting out if they can, now they are infantry too. 

 

The guys on the ground call in good hits, the tank is down, and the advance has been stalled.  You feel a sense of accomplishment as you turn your bird back on egress heading to RTB.  Just then, some asshole in the treeline with a 37mm flak gun opens up on you while you are flying nap of the earth back to your landmark.  Your aircraft lurches, then sputters, and you know you have to bail ASAP.  So you zoom up as high as you can, pop open the canopy, and bail.  As you float down to earth you take in the terrain.  All you have to do is make it to friendly lines and you will be OK.  As soon as your feet touch the ground... you're infantry too.  Better get somewhere safe or link up with your teammates back in that town before you get killed or captured.

 

Big ideas man.

The whole purpose of tanks being created was to support the infantry, infantry need tanks to breakthrough, tanks need infantry to support from close range threats

 

I find it funny that man with an infantryman avatar champions and explains this.  As a former infantryman myself, I (as we all were) am well aware that, while the tanks are there to help us break through, they need us to keep them from being overrun.  A lot of people don't realize that it's a mutually beneficial relationship.  Although the tankers say "The infantry might be the queen of battle, but without our tanks that little bitch would get raped" it's really the other way around.  That main-gun can turret only point in one direction at a time, and that co-ax MG has the same issue.  So three infantry men, with AT weapons, could overwhelm a tank very quickly.  No contest.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As we've seen from the very beginning of the BoX series, everything is a stepping stone to something bigger. The sim we fly today bears little resemblance to that we flew in early access. Who's to say what the developers long term plan is for Tank Crew? Maybe it starts out as a sim without infantry. Maybe stationary infantry might be modeled. We could well see movable ground troops far sooner than any can imagine now. I'm looking forward to Tank Crew a great deal. I think most here feel the same way.

Edited by Rjel

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Im sure we are all hope that this can become Steel Fury 2.0.

 

I have hopes that I can watch PanzerGrenadiers assault an OBJ while I overwatch from the cupola of my tank, calling targets out to my human gunner. I will also be ok with WT style tank only combat, so long as the vehicles are matched historically, both numerically and timeframe wise.

 

The devs will do what they can and I will support their decision either way. Im just stoked they even thought to go down this road.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Go play War Blunder then. Even DCS models infantry squads, and tank sims like Steel Beasts, Steel Fury/Armor have infantry modeled

 

 

That's not a great argument to be honest.

 

Also, one game's development does not equal anothers.

 

Armor and infantry go hand in hand , its one of the reasons l'v stopped playing Wthunder , combat fills fake even in sim battles. l just hope IL-2 fills that hole now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jason already said that infantry is not the series forte, and probably won't be by the time of TC release.

 

I dont blame him, they are already spreading themselves pretty thin with all three product lines.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jason already said that infantry is not the series forte, and probably won't be by the time of TC release.

 

I dont blame him, they are already spreading themselves pretty thin with all three product lines.

 

Well lets hope after release they add infantry. Ground combat will fill empty with out them , just go play Wthunder ground forces its a joke, plus Wblunder is just a Russain propaganda train.

Edited by EdgeOfTheRazor

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dont get me wrong, i would love infantry.

 

But it's unlikely imho.

 

But tanks/truck etc alone, for me, are just fine.

 

We have to be realistic about what can be achieved.

 

The devs cant add everything and concessions have to be made.

 

We might see a gesture towards inf as we have with ground crew but i dont expect a huge amount of complex ai.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Remember folks, Tank Crew is a new thing for the team (and third party) to be working on. If the past is any indication, it will deliver what they have promised (remember too that the tank list is still preliminary) and that there's always room for expansion later on down the line. Perhaps Tank Crew: Battle at Prokhorovka could be followed up by Tank Crew: Battle of the Bulge.

 

It's a small team so they can't do big things all at once but given enough time I'm sure they can do infantry and do it well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just hope that they work on the FMs. With the tanks that we have now, I can't get them up to rotation speed before I run out of runway.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just hope that they work on the FMs. With the tanks that we have now, I can't get them up to rotation speed before I run out of runway.

Trim it out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Remember folks, Tank Crew is a new thing for the team (and third party) to be working on. If the past is any indication, it will deliver what they have promised (remember too that the tank list is still preliminary) and that there's always room for expansion later on down the line. Perhaps Tank Crew: Battle at Prokhorovka could be followed up by Tank Crew: Battle of the Bulge.

 

It's a small team so they can't do big things all at once but given enough time I'm sure they can do infantry and do it well.

 

l would love a French&Polish campaign. Done just about every other campaign over the years. Or day 1 operation barbarossa, Berlin to Moscow And back again..

Close Combat III like, but down on the ground and in the mud and blood.

Edited by EdgeOfTheRazor

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I remember playing a Friday night bomber flight mission where we had a team of panzers assaulting a town held by T34s with a full compliment of air forces fighting right above the tanks(approx 12 tanks and 40 various planes). I was in a German tank and I will say with IL2s hunting us from above you quickly forget about lack of infantry. Also the aa guns were used as anti tank guns to great effect.

During the action I was cut away from my team by 3 IL2 who pushed me out into the open. With no hope of escape I was heavily damaged by rockets after 3 to 4 mins. of trying to land a shot and getting close, one of the IL2 made a pass head onto my gun...boom out of the sky.

My point of the story is if missions are set up right with a mix of A. I.and human players multi and co-op could be downright exciting. Nothing like knowing that tank has a human inside. Don't get me wrong infantry would be a nice addition down the road but in my opinion not a priority. I would think some type of bunker with "infantry" shooting out will be in game as well as an assortment of anti tank gun teams of various sizes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My gamer`s dream is to fly specialist fighter squadron that escorts specialist Jabo/bomber that supports specialist armor panzer formations fighting down low on the ground.

 

Maybe some day we can all toghether cooperate in a war front sortie on a TS channel. That makes me respect BoX developers who think BIG and make rational decisions.

 

Couldn`t we circumvent that? AT guns units, maybe?

We all want this battle zone but they really need to sort out the multiplayer side of things .You can't even log into TAW server most nights Its a dream alright .With the new patch coming I have high hopes that multiplayer gets some needed attention .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Introducing RoF like coops could be a milestone for this game`s mp. We`ll just have to wait and see. I know I`ll be looking to fly those as far as the community takes them.

Edited by Mac_Messer

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hell I'd love infantry. Just don't see it in this engine right now. Maybe there can be a major engine overhaul after BoBP, together with the pacific expansions. Maybe they find a way to optimize away all unnecessary performance hogs and utilize very effiecient routines that allow them to have a much larger draw distance with a lot more objects.

 

The engine is great but when It comes to objects and AI performance impact it has a way to go. Just hope this can be done in a feasible way.

 

Right now I'm just happy we get a tanks expansion though, have been looking forward to that since the 2 tanks were released.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Do you think that the russian tanks will be able to fight against the german ones ?

 

In close quarters urban conflict I have no doubts but in the fields, long range engagements, the 76mm russian canon that'll equip most of the tank may not be able to do much, at least not against tigers and panthers.

 

The su 152 can but it'll be hard to drive, hard to aim and the reload will take ages.

 

On the other side every tanks except the pz III have nice canons that should be able to pierce the kv1's thick armor even at long range.

 

So do you think it'll be kind of the same as battle of stalingrad with a noticeable german superiority ?

 

And don't say I forgot the su-122 because it's a pure infantry support tank, same purpose as the churchill AVRE.

The SU 122 can and did killed German heavies. The shear concussive effect of a hit from that usually killed the German crew. Also, remember that the battles will be a series of large German tank formations slogging their way through defensive line after defensive line. Honestly the best Kursk game is probably Theatre of War 2: Kursk, because of how much it focuses on the AT gun vs tank matchup that was the heart of Kursk.

 

For example, you might be in a Tiger, providing fire support for a group of 20 Panzer IVs and 30 Mark IIIs and dismounted infantry, with their halftracks going forward as well. Everything is calm, and then all of a sudden multiple Soviet AT guns start firing from multiple trench systems up ahead, as MG fire fills and air and rifle fire cracks at your men. Several of your tanks are hit and destroyed, their crews climbing out if they survive, into air alive with bullets. You start engaging the Soviet AT guns, and soon they are all taken out, though not before 16 of your tanks are ablaze. The remaining tanks drive over the barbed wire and onto the trench system, along with the surviving German infantry. SMG fire starts as both sides infantry takes heavy losses, and AT grenades are thrown onto several more German tanks, some being destroyed while others shrug off the blow. The remaining tanks stop and wait as your group moves past, roles reversed, as your tanks now assualt the next position with them in overwatch.

 

That should be a typical mission in the new tank games career.

Edited by hames123

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is going to be a fun  one when  more  tanks and missions  etc  and  multiplay is available.  I  got BOK  because I had seen that the tanks were avail,  to my  surprise all it had was  1 mission for each side, winter and summer.  Can’t wait for some updates to this.   Does the PW   CG  have any armor  stuff in it?

 

The  elephant in the room if there is no  infantry is an obvious one,  Sd. Kfz. 184.   The lack of  infantry defense and weight were it’s achilles.  That gun  will dominate  out in the open  and  the Russians will have to have air support to overcome it if there are no infantry. 

​Can't  wait for more development in this  aspect

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If this title, Tank Crew which has nothing to do with ww2 planes, receives poor review and poor sales, does 1 CGS enough capital to move on to Pacific?

 

Is Pacific now just a "dream"? Anything being worked on?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...