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Spitfire & the Flames.

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No, not a popular musical quartet :wacko:
 
So I've been doing my best to master the soon to be (fully) released Spitfire Mk.VВ which is included with the pre-order of BOK premium edition.
I have noticed that the Spitfire Mk.VВ in-game model, at this time does not emit flames from the exhaust outlets, while other already released aircraft do.

Is this because the BOK pack is not fully released ?
 
Now this led me to do some research on the interwebz concerning flames / spitfire / exhaust...
 
What I have found, apart from the occasional and few engine start up sequences is that exhaust flames are very rare indeed and are mostly due to cold starts / bad mixture or night time videos.
 
For example...
 


 

 

 


 
***********************************************
 
Now, nearly all videos concerning WWII aircraft engine startups that I have found show that spitting fire is not so common as I would like to believe...
 
For example...
 

 

 

 

 


 
*********************************************

Why is this such a rare image in available on-line videos, has the fuel octane been modified to meet modern standards ?

 

Is the in-game representation relative to the 1940/45 period.

Or, just a means of viewing the correct mixture while in flight, which is in fact the whole reason that this investigation begun !

 

Enjoy the videos, I'm sure many of you have seen them previously but for those relatively new to the game like myself, they are worth watching.

 

 

 

 

Thanks.

Edited by Boneboys

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The fires at start up of real WW2 aircraft are usually due to over priming the engine, especially if the engine was warm.

 

The little winking orange stack flames in flight in the sim are just a poorly implemented graphical effect.  In reality with the engine at anything above tick over at start up, you would not see individual flames that follow the firing order of the engine like they do in the sim.  If lighting conditions were just right, or at night, you would see a continuous flame at all the exhaust stacks, and if the auto mix control was not malfunctioning, or the pilot was properly setting the mix in planes that don't have auto mix, you would see a nice blue continuous flame at the stack.

 

I suspect that the in flight "flame" animation was done to save on graphics processing load, and frankly they should just not have it at all, as it is a cheap cinematic trick that is not realistic at all and has no place in a simulation.

Edited by BlitzPig_EL
  • Upvote 6

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The developer could add a second effect like

 

1st start up just fumes and smoke ( like hot it is done in the old il2 with the current patch)

 

Than, if the engine start didn't worked (happen to me sometimes) the 2nd effect could be used, like the current fire smoke effect is used primarilly

 

So adding a new smokey effect for the usual start up, than, use the current one if the first start failed.... but we need more smoke 

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Looks lovely though ;)

Indeed.

 

Probably just the thick and swept back exhaust outlets block the view a bit.

Possibly, I read that the outlets went through several modifications and that early on in the conflict the Hurricane was prefered over the Spitfire in nighttime missions, although the reasoning is not clear.

 

I do hope that the flame effects will be implemented for the Spitfire, realistic or not !

 

post-549-0-14821800-1412827844_thumb.jpg

 

Thanks...

Edited by Boneboys

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They should be invisible in daylight and when seen in darker situations they should be flickering at 21.6 times per second at each stack at 2600rpm.  It looks kind of like cartoon motors at the moment.  (Just an opinion.)

  • Upvote 2

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If you look at the specific Spit Vb we get, the outlets are very different from everything shown so far. They're significantly longer and wider, so videos of completely different outlets does not constitute any evidence that something is wrong.

 

Also, keep in mind that videos like these don't actually say anything about how the flames should look in the sim, at least when it comes to the frequency of seeing the flames. Keep in mind that those videos have their own frame rate (which is relatively limited), so we only see the flames that coincide with each frame. To truly have a video that could serve as a proper reference to what should be in the sim, we would need at least a 60 frames per second video. This is, incidentally, why gun camera footage (or really any camera footage) of tracer bullets does not replicate the actual visual effect of tracers. :)

Edited by 71st_AH_Yankee_

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Yeah the exhaust flames are a little overdone in daylight. I don't care I love it and thinks it looks cool and makes the planes feel alive when I'm flying. Keep em :)

  • Upvote 1

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I totally agree with El and Chuter. I admit this is one of the first things I noticed and though minor in the grand scheme of things, it does bug me. When I first started playing this current gen of IL-2, I was surprised to see the "twinkling" exhaust stacks and was puzzled why such an effect was depicted as it was. I still am honestly. It looks odd and just doesn't reflect reality. In broad daylight, these exhaust flames should not be this visible, if at all, under normal conditions. Even in lowlight/nighttime operations, it should appear more as a consistent glow, perhaps with a sporadic flicker. If not redone or removed altogether, I'd love to see the devs at least increase the transparency of the current flame effects so they're more subtle. 

 

 

I frankly don't agree with the sentiment of keeping such an effect because it "looks cool" in a product that is attempting to simulate reality as accurately as possible (so far as the technology we currently have reasonably allows, of course). In a sim that does such an impressive job in so many other ways, the twinkling exhaust flames stand out as a bit of a head scratching oddity that visually doesn't do many favors to an otherwise serious simulation.  ;)

Edited by Necrobaron
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Hmm, from a 4th Ground Attack Regiment pilot, before launching an airfield raid on Bobruysk in IL-2s:

 

 

The engines roared before dawn.  The purple flares shot up from the exhaust stubs licking the armoured bodies and even the cockpits of the planes.  The flames blinded the pilots and it was difficult to see anything in their reflection.

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Wonder what the conditions and circumstances were? I find it very difficult to believe they were blinded by the flames in broad daylight, at least unless something was seriously wrong.

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The exhaust tubes on our MkV Spitfire are there to mask the engine flames. They modeled it more accurately in this case.

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Wonder what the conditions and circumstances were? I find it very difficult to believe they were blinded by the flames in broad daylight, at least unless something was seriously wrong.

 

 

 

It was in darkness, before dawn.  Circumstances were normal operations in the summer of 1941.

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I know it may not be an accurate effect but I can't help it - I think it looks cool.

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Does_what_it_says_on_the_tin_big.jpg

Lovely pic. Some nerd will jump in a ruin it saying it is a start up pic though meeeehhh

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It was in darkness, before dawn.  Circumstances were normal operations in the summer of 1941.

 

Ah, I see. Makes sense.

 

 

Lovely pic. Some nerd will jump in a ruin it saying it is a start up pic though meeeehhh

 

Yep, because it is. Lol!

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----▲----

Thanks but that vid is in #1  :rolleyes:

 

So,,,it would appear that the ingame Spitfire is correctly modeled, as far as the exhaust outlet flames are concerned.

I'll have to try and get some richcold startup flames going  :)

 

Thanks for the feedback, I really wasn't sure about the subject.

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