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Spotting problem


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Imo a clearly visible dot should be recognizeable at 6 to 8 km without zoom (very little though, about 1 mm size dependent on the resolution used so that one still has to search for it)

At about 3 km the first LoD might be rendered, when there is a chance to recognize more than a dot.

Additional there should be glints from reflecting surfaces at even longer distances whe in the right position from the sun.

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Ok, I just went on to see how I could do spotting. I find that some of the time I can pick up on a BF-109 at over 4 km, when I am above the BF-109 and the bf-109 has the snow field behind it, without regard to whether or not I am zoomed in or out. When it comes to spotting the BF-109 up against the blue sky, I tend to do best when it is at co altitude. At co-altitude and with the sky behind the BF-109, the furthest I tend to notice the BF-109 is at about three kilometers away, but I usually pick up on the BF-109 when it is about two kilometers away from me. My monitor is a 23 inch Dell S2330MX set for a resolution of 1920 x 1080 @60Hz. I find it encouraging that under certain conditions I can spot the BF 109 from ranges comparable to what Coman indicated that I could expect to spot the BF-109. The fact that I am not able to pick up on the BF-109 up against the sky from the same ranges that I can spot a BF-109 that is below me and with a snow field behind it makes me think that I am just not accustomed to spotting planes at such ranges and I need practice. I think that the team should first give early access customers a chance to get used to how things are now, before making alterations. It is my understanding that it can take real pilots months to get used to spotting planes, right?  :salute: MJ

Edited by =69.GIAP=MIKHA
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I think you are partially right about this. I also think that some of my troubles atm are hardware related, I have 15" 1920x1080 display on my laptop, and unfortunately I am forced to use it now. But I also feel that this is an issue and I hope that devs look into it at some point with open mind.

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Ok, I just went on to see how I could do spotting. I find that some of the time I can pick up on a BF-109 at over 4 km, when I am above the BF-109 and the bf-109 has the snow field behind it, without regard to whether or not I am zoomed in or out. When it comes to spotting the BF-109 up against the blue sky, I tend to do best when it is at co altitude. At co-altitude and with the sky behind the BF-109, the furthest I tend to notice the BF-109 is at about three kilometers away, but I usually pick up on the BF-109 when it is about two kilometers away from me. My monitor is a 23 inch Dell S2330MX set for a resolution of 1920 x 1080 @60Hz. I find it encouraging that under certain conditions I can spot the BF 109 from ranges comparable to what Coman indicated that I could expect to spot the BF-109. The fact that I am not able to pick up on the BF-109 up against the sky from the same ranges that I can spot a BF-109 that is below me and with a snow field behind it makes me think that I am just not accustomed to spotting planes at such ranges and I need practice. I think that the team should first give early access customers a chance to get used to how things are now, before making alterations. It is my understanding that it can take real pilots months to get used to spotting planes, right?  :salute: MJ

I'd be really interested how you know that you see the contact at 4 km, especially as they spawn about 3 km away.

Anyway, the max. distance you mention, is 60% of the max. distance from that article.

Last, but not least, the majority of the people here have years of experience to spot a contact on a computer monitor.

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My friend Reflected sent me an interesting link of an Hungarian 109 pilot testimony during the Est front (French text translated)

His testimony reveal that they were able to spot IL2 from 6000m above them...

It was hard because of IL2 camo, but after some practice, they could spot them.

Their favourit tactic was to dive on them as fast as possible, Lagg/Yak covering or not, because at that speed none of the covering could intercept them.

Their attack was so fast the pilote couldn't even know if the target was damaged/destroyed! It was up to their wingman to report, when they could...

 

The day i could spot a plane from 6000m in BOS, i will be very happy!  :)

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Spotting, or tracking advantage, appears to go to the aircraft on top, that'll be the 109 then.  I don't know if it is because the lower aircraft is always dark against the snow or because the lower aircraft is moving relative to the background so the movement is easier to detect. 

 

I use a high resolution of 5040x1050, I can't tell if this is a disadvantage in the spotting, (as opposed to FOV :) ), but depending on the situation I can easily lose an aircraft that is less than 2km away (1.65-1.98) even when I know where it is and I'm following it visually.  If I was in a multi aircraft engagement, or manoeuvring out of plane, I would be well stuffed as, without labels, I would have to concentrate of all my observational powers on my target without looking around, for fear of completely losing track and then flapping about like a wet fish, unless of course I kept my opponent at much closer range.  That as someone has already mentioned, tends to rule out anything but close in knife fights which leads to very poor situational awareness and piloting skills.

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I hope the AI will not be able to see further than I can, LOL.

 

I suspect that 'full real setting' missions in BoS are going to need more teamwork (with AI or human team mates), more attention to detail and more 'airmanship' skills than other flight sims so far in order to cope with the extreme environment depicted, including difficult visibility conditions due to landscape, weather and atmosphere, etc. 

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The day i could spot a plane from 6000m in BOS, i will be very happy!  :)

 

Don't forget

"Aspect and numbers matter HUGELY. Two planes are four times easier to spot than one. The closer together they are, the easier. A small group of 6 or 8 is even easier to spot"

 

I guess your "Hungarian 109 pilot" were able to spot a GROUP of IL-2 from 6000 m above

 

you sure are aware of the difference to spot someone from above or horizontally.

 

He doesn't seem to be :)

Edited by Scorlhov
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A moving IL2, with its huge wing area, should be easily spottable from 6000 m above, even camouflaged against the ground clutter.

Remember the often mentioned post was speaking of spotting a 109, head on, at level, at 6 km.

Moving objects, not head on, are way easier to detect, thats the way a hunters eye works.

And, @ scorlhov, you shouldn't change the interpretation of anothers post by guessing. :D

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I stopped writing when I thought I had already written a book. But....  ;)  (Also, thanks for the kind comments)

 

I agree the devs need to find a way to help. I do not yet have my new rig built so I am going off of You Tube vids and what I see and hear right here. I still think it is looking good.

 

I would think at some range the model should render a 1x3 to 1x5 pixel image. At reality spotting ranges, the head-on width of a wing is far less than a pixel and usually not what you see. The fuselage itself is probably less than a pixel as well. My experience is all with the Mark I, mod 0 eyeball and older versions of the sim. Maybe OR in a second or third gen iteration will give us what we need and until then, these geys  (the devs) really seem headed in the right direction! Hopefully they are reading and find a "cheat" to allow an aircraft to render as a one pixle minimum at some player chosen, or in campaigns, server chosen value. Kinda like unlimited ammo! I doubt anyone would be running in some 3 digit res just to see further.

 

From 6000 M I have no doubt the IL-2 could be spotted. I, however, would be doing what I teach the guys in the 69th, look for the shadow! Also, I look forward to trying heavy group spotting when that is a possibility. On a bright day, hopefully the flash of wing or canopy will, as in RL, also be a factor.

Edited by =69.GIAP=C0NAN
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Maybe it is worth waiting to see today's version of the alpha before going further with this discussion?  They have modified the viewing distances.

Right. And so this thread is now obsolete, time to close.

... we should leave the space for someone to open a new thread about the new problems of the new spotting distances... ;)

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