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Huntsman

Who is going to buy and fly the G-6?

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Actually yes, that has been the standard for this sim, like it or not, from the very beginning. That’s why we got the Fw 190A3 for Stalingrad in the first place and the P-40E for Moscow. Both existed within their respectively time frames but on different fronts.

 

Personally, I’d like a bit more stringent historical accuracy, but that’s the standard that has been set, and at least it’s consistent.

And I am glad they did, I only bought the game because focke wulf, is my favorite plane of all time.

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And I am glad they did, I only bought the game because focke wulf, is my favorite plane of all time.
 

 

I made the order of my early alpha pre-order the day they released the A3  :salute:

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And btw, @OP: I will definitely use the G6, it’s the quintessential Bf 109 and a great addition to the sim, with or without MW50. So far I have bought 3 copies of the plane (1 for myself and 2 gifts) and I’ll probably buy more.

 

The 109 will never be my prefered ride, but as far as 109s go, the G6 is a very interesting and important one.

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I want an La-7 to gun down P-51s in Kozhedub-style :)

 

A G6 is no more a G6 than an La-5FN is an La-5FN.

G6 is a first standard G6, like La-5F is a first standard La-5F,
G6/U2 /MW-50 is the improved version of G6, like La-5 FN is the improved version of La-5F
La-5F had worst performances than La-5FN don´t forget it.
And first batch of La-5FN was delivered from production line in June 1943, they were not used massively in combat until October of 1944.   
ALL La-5F aircrafts were not FN

 

Clearly MW50 is not a relevant mod for a 1943 eastern front G6

From the beginning of G6 production in february of 1943 the G6/U2 (with GM-1) was available. 

In june of 1944 all G6/U2 can be retrofitted to MW-50 with a field modification kit.

In may of 1944 the first batches of G6  equipped with the DB-605AM engine capable to use C3 fuel (96 octane), and MW-50 injection was delivered,.

 

I think yes, ..G6/U2(MW-50)  is very relevant in 1943, same as ASh-82FN engine was relevant for the La-5F series 

Same as G6/U2 (MW-50) the La-5FN was not massively produced until 1944..

 

 

Edited by III/JG52_Otto_-I-
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I see, the FM/DM forum police is back on the works and very strong this year!  :salute:

 

Gotta be cautios...  :ph34r:

 

  :rolleyes:  :rolleyes:  :rolleyes:

 

You may mock  :)  :)

 

But historically correct is not very popular, multiple thousands of people prefer another type of reality in another WWII(+) game (sim?) 

 

the desire for the newest and greatest and rarest is panderd to and then all flown/driven and fought together

 

Timeline correct and historical is done quite well in BoS universe and the small niche of people hope it stays that way..Mw-50 will be in Bodenplatte in the correct place, unless you want to start the thin edge of the wedge, that may prove very popular and a slippery slope

 

Very much looking forward to the G6, 30mm mk108 not so much, except for bomber hunting  :cool:

 

Cheers Dakpilot

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Dakpilot, historically correct is mw50. It has been available from the beginning, February '43.

 

Everything else that you and finkeren based your deductions on is simply false. Like Otto, I gave you sources earlier as well, but you seem to not want to read them.

 

We now have a multitude of sources, certainly more than 2.

 

So, by your own standards, you may want to correct your assumption and heading. At least, if you take your exclamation of "wanting to stick to historical accuracy" and not being interested in anything else seriously.

Edited by 4./JG52_Fenris_Wolf
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G6 is a first standard G6, like La-5F is a first standard La-5F,
G6/U2 /MW-50 is the improved version of G6, like La-5 FN is the improved version of La-5F
La-5F had worst performances than La-5FN don´t forget it.
And first batch of La-5FN was delivered from production line in June 1943, they were not used massively in combat until October of 1944.   
ALL La-5F aircrafts were not FN

 

From the beginning of G6 production in february of 1943 the G6/U2 (with GM-1) was available. 

In june of 1944 all G6/U2 can be retrofitted to MW-50 with a field modification kit.

In may of 1944 the first batches of G6  equipped with the DB-605AM engine capable to use C3 fuel (96 octane), and MW-50 injection was delivered,.

 

I think yes, ..G6/U2(MW-50)  is very relevant in 1943, same as ASh-82FN engine was relevant for the La-5F series 

Same as G6/U2 (MW-50) the La-5FN was not massively produced until 1944..

 

 

 

 

I know you guys aren't that big on reading comprehension but the things you are highlighting are literally disproving your own points.

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Got it a week ago or so, looking forward to it a lot. 12.7s are awesome in this game, the 131s should be so much better than the mg17.

 

30mm is a nice bonus.

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Got it a week ago or so, looking forward to it a lot. 12.7s are awesome in this game, the 131s should be so much better than the mg17.

 

30mm is a nice bonus.

No, they will be closer to the Italian 12.7s which are garbage rather then Berezin or M2

Edited by RoflSeal

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Got it a week ago or so, looking forward to it a lot. 12.7s are awesome in this game, the 131s should be so much better than the mg17.

 

30mm is a nice bonus.

 

 

No, they will be closer to the Italian 12.7s which are garbage rather then Berezin or M2

 

 

You can "sort of" test it already, the H111-H16 have a single MG131 turret for the gunner  ;)

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I know you guys aren't that big on reading comprehension but the things you are highlighting are literally disproving your own points.

Wishful Thinking. Truth depends on how much you really, really, really very much want something to be true. 

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Dakpilot, historically correct is mw50. It has been available from the beginning, February '43.

GM-1 and MW50 are two different things. GM-1 was available early on, MW50 was not.

 

MW50 is water-methanol 50-50 mix injection. The water for improved in cylinder/cylinder charge cooling, which allowed higher boost without detonation. The Methanol is added as anti-freeze device. The Methanol is also burned in the process. MW50 injection is most useful below full throttle altitude, when the supercharger is capable of 'overloading' the engine. MW50 enables the engine to deal with this overload, increasing power output at low altitude. At high altitude the benefits are very small, because the low boosts obtainable there do not require the extra cooling.

GM-1 is Göring-mixture, i.e. laughing gas, i.e. nitro oxide injection. This adds oxygen into the cylinder, available for combustion with fuel. It is used above full throttle altitude, where the supercharger cannot fill the cylinder up completely any more. It is therefore used at high altitude, where the extra oxygen supports the supercharger in providing what's necessary for fuel combustion. Since nitrous oxide injection also creates extra heat and cylinder pressure, it is easy to blow an engine, if used below full throttle altitude. In the Luftwaffe, it was strictly limited to use above full throttle altitude, in the DB605A this would be above 7km.

Edited by JtD
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The 131s should be closer matched with the 151 in terms of ballistics right? Compared to the Mg17 at least.

Edited by Windmills

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Wow, the spam is real, Finkeren.

 

As you admitted, you don't even play the game. You should leave the forums as well.

 

 

...

 

What a pile of bullying crap!!

 

I'm personally sick to the back teeth of jumped up online-only wannabes looking down their noses at those of us who fly predominantly offline.

 

We bought the bloody game and we'll use it how we see fit. And,,,,And we'll comment on the bloody forum as we see fit too!!

 

 

 

...or at least until one of the mods cleans up our latest outburst  ;)

Edited by kendo
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I know you guys aren't that big on reading comprehension but the things you are highlighting are literally disproving your own points.

But we are agree that F and FN are not the same, ?? ... or there are people here that only understand that GM-1 and MW-50 is not the same??  :rolleyes:

Edited by III/JG52_Otto_-I-

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This thread is beyond rescue. Original OP s question is answered, and it turnt into some people who can't read nor want to read the sources provided to them speaking out trying to get the G6 pre-nerfed at release.

 

They sound like a broken record, see JtD basically quoting my post on earlier pages about how mw50 works and what it is - in my own direction. Face-palm is too soft to describe this. Some people, like a broken record.

 

They can't make their assumptions true by quoting each other, yet they try.

What a pile of bullying crap!!

 

I'm personally sick to the back teeth of jumped up online-only wannabes looking down their noses at those of us who fly predominantly offline.

 

We bought the bloody game and we'll use it how we see fit. And,,,,And we'll comment on the bloody forum as we see fit too!!

 

 

 

...or at least until one of the mods cleans up our latest outburst ;)

If you play offline anyway, why do you even care. Just turn the thing off, fly without it.

 

You'll have the option.

Edited by 4./JG52_Fenris_Wolf
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So historical performance do not matter when it comes to LW, only YAK and LA 5? 

This site is bombarded about claims of over performing Red fighters, and when we get a early G6 suddenly it is ok to get a late G6 instead. Why not get Bodenplatte planes while we are at it?

Your opinion are based on a illusion that there is no difference in a early G6 and a late one. It is a tremendous difference 

What part of "players having options that are restrictable by server" do you not understand?

 

I`m all for adding each and every field/official mod to each and every aircraft available in this game, as long as it is restrictable, which AFAIK it is. Yes, also for Yaks, Lavochkins or Bostons if you can comprehend that. There is no downside to this, unless you fly only in arcade doom servers which I obviously don`t give a toss about. I only fly historically realistic servers so I only benefit from mods if they are historialy accurate.

The trouble with this is all of the exceptions. An early model Bf109G-6 and a late model Bf109G-6 might as well be different aircraft given the huge number of changes over the course of development. Indeed they were trying to reconcile all of the modifications on the G-6 line into something resembling some order when they did the G-14.

The sheer fact that the 109G6 is relevant from 1943 to almost the very end of WWII makes adding the mods/fieldmods irreplaceble when it comes to historical accuracy. A G6 is not a G2, G10 or a G14. They are different aircraft.

Have you considered that this is extra work and research to be done, plus that it will be less incentive to invest in bobp since you'll have what amounts to a G14 already?

 

'Just make it all available' is kind of a crazy statement when it is not free to produce it all.

 

In the same sense, give us a late FN/S66 LaGG/early yak 1 etc as a 'modification' is clearly an unreasonable thing to ask to be done for free.

Haven`t seen that type of arguments when Yaks and La5 got their mods, let alone the IL-2.

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see JtD basically quoting my post on earlier pages about how mw50 works and what it is - in my own direction.

It looked to me as if you took a date referring to GM1 and stated it was MW50. Which it is not - and I explained the differences. Which you never did. So I certainly wasn't quoting you.

 

For what it is worth, the Bf109G manuals referring to MW50 installation are dated September 1944 and later. MW50 historically just wasn't a 1943 or a Kuban thing. I'd still absolutely like to see the option for MW50 for the G-6 in game - same reasoning as Mac_Messer.

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I think it will make no difference if there ist an option for the MW-50 system ingame because nearly EVERY server will disable it. And I guess this would be the right choice. But it would be nice to have the mod. for the GM-1, because this was in use in mid. 43 AFAIK.

 

I will fly the G-6 because it is the essence of the 109 series. It is not the best but it is the most important and for me (at least) the most iconic 109. I hope they will make the MG131 somewhat usefull so you can feel the difference to the normal MG17.

 

What I really want to have is the option for the glass headrest and some different bomb racks which are absolutly important to me because THIS will make the G-6 versatile which it was and this is the most important improvement to all other 109s ingame. Better radio equimpent or radio direction finding were absolutly important IRL but they are not in this sim so many of the advantages (which WERE present in the G-6) will not be of importance because it is a sim. But so it goes.

 

I will fly it anyways  ;)

Edited by Huntsman

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I think it will make no difference if there ist an option for the MW-50 system ingame because nearly EVERY server will disable it. And I guess this would be the right choice. But it would be nice to have the mod. for the GM-1, because this was in use in mid. 43 AFAIK.
 

Guess what, there's SP, and there's coop mode coming.

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I’d absolutely be in favor of having GM1 as a mod, though the benefit of it would be rather limited against Soviet aircraft that are already outclassed by every 109 at high altitude.

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Id love to see the sales numbers of how many bought the G6. I don't think the guns are going to be that attractive to people who already have difficulty dealing with the drag and added weight of the G4. People still don't even like the G2 over the F4. I think the G6 will require some kind of engine mod or special bomb racks to make it interesting enough for anyone to actually use. 

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Id love to see the sales numbers of how many bought the G6. I don't think the guns are going to be that attractive to people who already have difficulty dealing with the drag and added weight of the G4. People still don't even like the G2 over the F4. I think the G6 will require some kind of engine mod or special bomb racks to make it interesting enough for anyone to actually use. 

 

Not much anyone can do to make it better, it's half a step back while the other sides were taking big strides forward. That's just what it was, trying to make it anything else doesn't really make sense

 

And the interest people will have in using it will be due to low/no availability of the earlier versions anymore during later east front scenarios. Otherwise we might as well still be using F4s until the battle of berlin.

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 speaking out trying to get the G6 pre-nerfed at release.

 

 

 

 

LOL  :)

 

Cheers Dakpilot

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Id love to see the sales numbers of how many bought the G6. I don't think the guns are going to be that attractive to people who already have difficulty dealing with the drag and added weight of the G4. People still don't even like the G2 over the F4. I think the G6 will require some kind of engine mod or special bomb racks to make it interesting enough for anyone to actually use. 

 

30 mm? :huh: I think thats most attractive to the most people :biggrin:

Edited by 216th_Jordan

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30 mm? :huh: I think thats most attractive to the most people :biggrin:

 

This is it, in a nutshell.  The Mk 108 is why people are salivating for the G6.   In an expert shots hands it will be devastating, for most it will be frustrating, at best, against fighters.

 

The many threads it will generate will be quite entertaining though.

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Yes for sure , it going to neutrilize a PE 2 in a second , it will be a much feared opponents for us ground pounders, and if smart. Against all. I do not think there was one USSR pilot laughing at the G6 in 43

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This is it, in a nutshell.  The Mk 108 is why people are salivating for the G6.   In an expert shots hands it will be devastating, for most it will be frustrating, at best, against fighters.

 

The many threads it will generate will be quite entertaining though.

 

The question is : when out of 30mm's ammo (60 rounds I believe) will the 2*13mm be enough ?

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The question is : when out of 30mm's ammo (60 rounds I believe) will the 2*13mm be enough ?

2x13mm close to the centerline is nothing to sneeze at. Besides, having just a few seconds of fire with really effective cannons after which you’re down to pea-shooters doesn’t seem to keep people from flying the Spitfire.

Edited by Finkeren

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Not much anyone can do to make it better, it's half a step back while the other sides were taking big strides forward. That's just what it was, trying to make it anything else doesn't really make sense

 

And the interest people will have in using it will be due to low/no availability of the earlier versions anymore during later east front scenarios. Otherwise we might as well still be using F4s until the battle of berlin.

 

Map makers are what make planes interesting so long as they have the upgrades. The E7 would be total garbage if not for map makers creating roles for it as jabo fighters. 

 

30 mm? :huh: I think thats most attractive to the most people :biggrin:

 

I think when the novelty wares off, the slower muzzle velocity and decreased ammo load is going to have people wanting the 151 back and viewing the 30mm as for bomber hunting. 

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2x13mm close to the centerline is nothing to sneeze at. Besides, having just a few seconds of fire with really effective cannons after which you’re down to pea-shooters doesn’t seem to keep people from flying the Spitfire.

 

Sure but the machineguns of the spitfire are mostly ineffective and are out of ammo shortly after you used your last shells.

 

What I mean is will you have to rearm when out of 30mm or will you be able to still rock only with MGs.

 

If I fly it MP I'll mostly use the 20mm: not way less damage but much more ammo  means more forgiving.

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The question is : when out of 30mm's ammo (60 rounds I believe) will the 2*13mm be enough ?

 

Sure. People never tired of it in the original IL-2.

 

The key difference is that only a couple of MK108 shells will do in most targets and the high fire rate means you just burst a target and then move on. If your aim is good you can easily bag 3-4 fighter or attack planes and use the machine guns for reserve. I'm guessing it won't be that different in the new sim.

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Sure but the machineguns of the spitfire are mostly ineffective and are out of ammo shortly after you used your last shells.

 

What I mean is will you have to rearm when out of 30mm or will you be able to still rock only with MGs.

 

If I fly it MP I'll mostly use the 20mm: not way less damage but much more ammo  means more forgiving.

 

You're not wrong about the general idea, but one thing I can guarantee: The 2x13mm on the centerline of the G6 are going to be far, far more effective and with longer firing time than the 4x7.62mm spread out on the wings of the Spit - they will definitely shoot down fighters, if they will do it as effectively as 2xUBS is an open question (probably not) but they will not be useless.

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Thank you both for your answers, I'll definitly give it a try when it comes out !

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At the moment I'm on the fence about buying the G6. Although I appreciate it was the most produced 109, etc, it's another BF109 model, almost identical to the G4. Is it worth getting? I know if I did eventually buy it I would fly it all the time.

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You nailed it: It is THE most produced and so far iconic 109. And the "Beule" has the best look. THAT are the reasons to buy it. And maybe the MK108.

For the reasons of performance and flight experience its just another (albeit a tad havier) 109.

 

 

BUT it is THE 109....

:rolleyes:  

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At the moment I'm on the fence about buying the G6. Although I appreciate it was the most produced 109, etc, it's another BF109 model, almost identical to the G4. Is it worth getting? I know if I did eventually buy it I would fly it all the time.

 

Do you like flying the Bf109 series? Then you might want it simply because its another option in the lineup and this one does come with some unique attributes (the heavy machine guns, MK108 cannon option, etc.). If you don't normally fly the 109 then probably not :)

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