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Huntsman

Who is going to buy and fly the G-6?

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It's funny how real life variables can completely change people's outlook on a vehicle. In sim, no one ever wants a G2 over an F4, but in real life I've read real 109 pilots claiming they felt the G2/G4 was a much more desirable plane. 

 

That is not true! Bf 109 G2 is the best climber in BoX and the best BnZing 109!

Edited by MeoW.Scharfi

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Wow. The argument regarding mods was answered so now its onto the swastika. Who will buy and fly the G6? "Nevermind that, what about the swastika?" Its a dumb law but it is the law. Its such a pity those folk who live in those countries can enjoy this game because the devs censor the swastika. They should just say f@ck those folk so we can wear our swastikas!

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Gents, getting back on topic for now-

 

I'm still concerning about the roll rate of Bf109, seem it's too slow compare with some history data, in different altitude, it confused us

:lol:

This is what I am also most eager to see with the release of the G6 and new version of the sim; the BF109 roll rate is truly dreadful and it remains to be seen where this was sourced from.

 

It is over 2x slower than lagg-3 and roughly same as pe2 roll rate- but even slower at high speeds. Truly abysmal aileron effectiveness. Will be interesting to see if this is looked at again with the G6.

Edited by Mcdaddy

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Gents, getting back on topic for now-

 

This is what I am also most eager to see with the release of the G6 and new version of the sim; the BF109 roll rate is truly dreadful and it remains to be seen where this was sourced from.

 

It is over 2x slower than lagg-3 and roughly same as pe2 roll rate- but even slower at high speeds. Truly abysmal aileron effectiveness. Will be interesting to see if this is looked at again with the G6.

 

My intent is not to dispute this or anything negative and I have no doubts or any ideas that what you say is incorrect. But as a mainly 109 flyer and avid fan of the aircraft, I am curious as to what reference you two are using for this? Thanks

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My intent is not to dispute this or anything negative and I have no doubts or any ideas that what you say is incorrect. But as a mainly 109 flyer and avid fan of the aircraft, I am curious as to what reference you two are using for this? Thanks
 

 

I dont know about the 109, but the Lagg3 ingame share the same roll rate as the La5, which is light years ahead of what the airplane had IRL....

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My intent is not to dispute this or anything negative and I have no doubts or any ideas that what you say is incorrect. But as a mainly 109 flyer and avid fan of the aircraft, I am curious as to what reference you two are using for this? Thanks

The reference is just taking up a lagg-3 and giving it a roll over the scope of airspeeds. The BF109 is over twice as slow over most of the range. We're all aware of the 109 historical reputation for heavy stick forces at high speed, but this is quite alarming by any means.

 

From the F model onwards they even had Frise type aileron linkages to alleviate stick forces.

 

I would be interested to see if another look has been taken at this with the G6 development.

 

 

 

I dont know about the 109, but the Lagg3 ingame share the same roll rate as the La5, which is light years ahead of what the airplane had IRL....

Actually, I believe Lagg-3 series 29 is quite a refined and later development of the Lagg airframe, and apart from addition of slats and a further lightened airframe, it didn't improve drastically from the version we have in sim already. What we have in sim is already quite a refined Lagg 3, with a similar airframe to the La5.

Edited by Mcdaddy

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My intent is not to dispute this or anything negative and I have no doubts or any ideas that what you say is incorrect. But as a mainly 109 flyer and avid fan of the aircraft, I am curious as to what reference you two are using for this? Thanks

We have a reference and we also tested the roll rate in different speed, at 3000m. Seems it really very slow, I can show you when I find our reference.

Of course we are not challenge the FM, we appreciate 1C/777 that bring us such a wonderful sim, and the dev team need a lot of efforts and time to get a spot on FM.

Han mentioned a new way to make an accurate FM of Yak7b, in the last last dev diary, I hope the dev team can check again the Bf109 later, after 3.001 released, they are busy now.

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I know the G6 aileron design didn't change, but you have to wonder if they are going to keep the roll rate this slow. Granted, the aileron design and downwards deflection isn't as efficient as the FW190, but when a Lagg-3 rolls over twice the rate at any speed, I hope the dev's research into the G6 has perhaps had them reevaluate the abysmal aileron performance of the Messerschmitt airframes.

Edited by Mcdaddy

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I know the G6 aileron design didn't change, but you have to wonder if they are going to keep the roll rate this slow. Granted, the aileron design and downwards deflection isn't as efficient as the FW190, but when a Lagg-3 rolls over twice the rate at any speed, I hope the dev's research into the G6 has perhaps had them reevaluate the abysmal aileron performance of the Messerschmitt airframes.

If you have any original data that indicate, that the Bf 109 aileron performance is wrong, you should definitely share it with the devs - that’s how the Fw 190 FM got fixed.

 

If it’s just based on a “feeling” that the 109 should be “better”, then you can’t expect the devs to take it seriously.

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I know the G6 aileron design didn't change, but you have to wonder if they are going to keep the roll rate this slow. Granted, the aileron design and downwards deflection isn't as efficient as the FW190, but when a Lagg-3 rolls over twice the rate at any speed, I hope the dev's research into the G6 has perhaps had them reevaluate the abysmal aileron performance of the Messerschmitt airframes.

 

This could be a problem with the Lagg's roll speed, rather than the 109s. I have sent the Devs the docs they need for the 109 roll performance, and from what I have seen, it was a close match to the original after it was changed. 

 

Now as for the G-6, AFAIK the ailerons remained essentially the same on the 109F through K, though as the wing structure got beefier with the G and K at higher speed it may have improved a little compared to the 109F (some aileron power is lost on all planes due to wing twisting, and altough the 109 was pretty good in this regard and had a fairly high aileron reversal speed as an indicator of this, there is always room for improvement).

 

The other improvement was installation of aileron Flettner tabs on certain batches of the 109G-6, G-14 and G-10, mostly evidenced on those which were produced in the Wiener Neustadt, Austria in collaboration with Diana in Bohemia. This did little about low-medium speed roll but the stick forces were much lighter and the ailerons could be deflected up to 2/3s even at high Mach numbers. 

 

Given that aileron Flettners are visible on several G-6s from WNF plant, I suppose aileron Flettners could be a nice mod for the G-6. I doubt the team has time for that now, but perhaps it could be a later addition. FM implementation is not so difficult I believe as it just basically makes the stick forces lower --> greater deflection at high speed. 

 

See here: https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/32448-109-g14/page-2?do=findComment&comment=555374

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Really, in some Eastern Bloc Countries (Poland, Czech Republic, Hungary, Ukraine, the Balitc States, Georgia and New Guinea)

 

Hmmm, New Guinea... 

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This could be a problem with the Lagg's roll speed, rather than the 109s. I have sent the Devs the docs they need for the 109 roll performance, and from what I have seen, it was a close match to the original after it was changed. 

 

Now as for the G-6, AFAIK the ailerons remained essentially the same on the 109F through K, though as the wing structure got beefier with the G and K at higher speed it may have improved a little compared to the 109F (some aileron power is lost on all planes due to wing twisting, and altough the 109 was pretty good in this regard and had a fairly high aileron reversal speed as an indicator of this, there is always room for improvement).

 

The other improvement was installation of aileron Flettner tabs on certain batches of the 109G-6, G-14 and G-10, mostly evidenced on those which were produced in the Wiener Neustadt, Austria in collaboration with Diana in Bohemia. This did little about low-medium speed roll but the stick forces were much lighter and the ailerons could be deflected up to 2/3s even at high Mach numbers. 

 

Given that aileron Flettners are visible on several G-6s from WNF plant, I suppose aileron Flettners could be a nice mod for the G-6. I doubt the team has time for that now, but perhaps it could be a later addition. FM implementation is not so difficult I believe as it just basically makes the stick forces lower --> greater deflection at high speed. 

 

See here: https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/32448-109-g14/page-2?do=findComment&comment=555374

The German Aircraft are OK in General within the Game Mechanics, except for the Propeller, which the Devs have admitted. 

 

The Russian Aircraft are OK in General, but the the Battle of Stalingrad Planes (not BoM) simply seem to still have the RoF modelling of Control Forces, so barely any. Especially the LaGG Pilot must be a Super Human. 

If the Control Forces were turned up by a Factor of about 3, the Russian Aircraft of Bo!!!S!!! would feel acceptable and more importantly: Believable. 

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We need alternatives! Let's have a new insignia on the wings.

 

416Q02GR0ZL._SL500_AC_SS350_.jpg

Are you trying to make them indestructible? :P

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The German Aircraft are OK in General within the Game Mechanics, except for the Propeller, which the Devs have admitted. 

 

 

 

 

What about the propeller?

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Some parts of flight data (dependant on type of propeller used) are taken from VVS aircraft and assumed onto LW aircraft flight model. Can`t know the difference till we know German propeller FM data.

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What's the difference?

Most likely Low Speed Performance, which the VDMs the Low Speed Acceleration and Torque should be better, while High Speeds would suffer.

Edited by 6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann

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Some parts of flight data (dependant on type of propeller used) are taken from VVS aircraft and assumed onto LW aircraft flight model. Can`t know the difference till we know German propeller FM data.

 

Is it going to be fixed some day? or a better question should be, can the devs fix it? or the data is lost?

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La5FN seems a bit fast at altitude, but I love it'll finally have a mirror as well.

 

So, the G6 will be a slowly flying brick of 20 Dollar rip-off disappointment. It lacks the interesting modifications it had in reality, various boosts, rockets, 30mm gunpowder, etc.

 

Fail. Before engaging in a s***storm on reddit and other forums over it, does anyone know where to write to in order to get a refund on the G6?

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La5FN seems a bit fast at altitude, but I love it'll finally have a mirror as well.

 

So, the G6 will be a slowly flying brick of 20 Dollar rip-off disappointment. It lacks the interesting modifications it had in reality, various boosts, rockets, 30mm gunpowder, etc.

 

Fail. Before engaging in a s***storm on reddit and other forums over it, does anyone know where to write to in order to get a refund on the G6?

Too late, shit storm engaged. 

 

I find it funny that you expected 1944 mods when we havent gotten any content from that period even made. And you are so unhappy you didnt get your way, so entitled. Whats going to be funny is when the G-14 gets made and then the G6 gets those mods added on to flesh it out, but you had to refund it because you didnt get everything immediately. 

 

Go ask the Devs for it in the support section.

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La5FN seems a bit fast at altitude, but I love it'll finally have a mirror as well.

 

The FN has ridiculously low dive limit - not changed from the La-5F.

She will not be difficult to avoid at altitude, but yes - fastest level speed was a nice perk to have.

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La5FN seems a bit fast at altitude, but I love it'll finally have a mirror as well.

 

So, the G6 will be a slowly flying brick of 20 Dollar rip-off disappointment. It lacks the interesting modifications it had in reality, various boosts, rockets, 30mm gunpowder, etc.

 

Fail. Before engaging in a s***storm on reddit and other forums over it, does anyone know where to write to in order to get a refund on the G6?

 

[Edited]

Edited by Bearcat
  • Upvote 5

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La5FN seems a bit fast at altitude, but I love it'll finally have a mirror as well. So, the G6 will be a slowly flying brick of 20 Dollar rip-off disappointment. It lacks the interesting modifications it had in reality, various boosts, rockets, 30mm gunpowder, etc. Fail. Before engaging in a s***storm on reddit and other forums over it, does anyone know where to write to in order to get a refund on the G6?

If the performance figures of the 2(all) aircraft are correct(high fidelity) modelled we should be happy. We get a early 1943 version of the G6, so the absence of MW50,Erlahaube, AS/M engine modification is correct.

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I actually think the La-5FN seems ti be on the fast side of things. The speed figures seem to be more in line with what I’d expect from a late production FN. The climb rate seems all right though.

 

If that’s how it really performed from the start, then of course that’s fine, but at first glance it seems overly optimistic.

 

The G6 seems right on the money though. Somewhat slower than the G4 (mostly due to drag) but with virtually unchanged turn performance and climb rate.

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The G6 seems right on the money though. Somewhat slower than the G4 (mostly due to drag) but with virtually unchanged turn performance and climb rate.
 

 

And the addition of fantastically improved firepower, especially when one manages to score hits with the 108, should put big smiles on peoples faces(at least on the delivering side).

 

After the G6 was announced together with the confimation of the MK 108 being available, i really don't care about all the other 109 anymore and pretty much only want to fly the G6 when there are no 190's available.

 

Another fun fact,  now that outrunning your opponent is not so "easy" anymore with the later aircraft on the vvs side at hand, we hopefully will have more axis pilots actually trying to fight, instead of desperately trying to get seperation and just get shot down in the process.

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After the G6 was announced together with the confimation of the MK 108 being available, i really don't care about all the other 109 anymore and pretty much only want to fly the G6 when there are no 190's available.

 

Sounds to me like a clear buy recommendation! (Though I would have bought it anyway...) :dance:

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La5FN seems a bit fast at altitude, but I love it'll finally have a mirror as well.

 

So, the G6 will be a slowly flying brick of 20 Dollar rip-off disappointment. It lacks the interesting modifications it had in reality, various boosts, rockets, 30mm gunpowder, etc.

 

Fail. Before engaging in a s***storm on reddit and other forums over it, does anyone know where to write to in order to get a refund on the G6?

 

Laughable..

 

particularly the lame threat to cause a s***storm all over the internet

 

Cheers, Dakpilot

  • Upvote 4

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La5FN seems a bit fast at altitude, but I love it'll finally have a mirror as well.

 

So, the G6 will be a slowly flying brick of 20 Dollar rip-off disappointment. It lacks the interesting modifications it had in reality, various boosts, rockets, 30mm gunpowder, etc.

 

Fail. Before engaging in a s***storm on reddit and other forums over it, does anyone know where to write to in order to get a refund on the G6?

 

G6 is historically slower than G2-G4, because Germans maintained the engine making it heavier. I doubt you will get any refund

Edited by SJ_Butcher

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How big speed loss can we expect with the MK108?

 

None.

 

According to the specs just posted by Han, shifting to the MK 108 actually makes the plane 6kg lighter, so in practical terms, no difference at all.

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Can't wait to fly the G-6, it's one of those iconic 109's for me  :)

That's why I love flying the E series too, another icon... they don't have to be the fastest or best plane out there, they are just one of aircraft that meant something to me when I was younger...

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I will most likely buy it.. especially since it is on sale now.. along with anything else i don't have .. except possibly the Ju-52.. Not tat I get the chance to fly much nowadays anyway..  

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So, the G6 will be a slowly flying brick of 20 Dollar rip-off disappointment. It lacks the interesting modifications it had in reality, various boosts, rockets, 30mm gunpowder, etc.

 

Hey, hey - the RHEINMETALL Mk 108 is a 30 mm cannon, right? And rockets - well, I'd prefer to engage bombers with the Mk 108.

Those German anti-bomber rockets were pretty bad to really hit something, I read.

A soldier must use what they throw at him - and try to make the best of it, right? We will loose this war anyway, Fenris - so much is clear! ;)

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Hey, hey - the RHEINMETALL Mk 108 is a 30 mm cannon, right? And rockets - well, I'd prefer to engage bombers with the Mk 108. Those German anti-bomber rockets were pretty bad to really hit something, I read. A soldier must use what they throw at him - and try to make the best of it, right? We will loose this war anyway, Fenris - so much is clear!

 

It will have a 30mm and 13mm MG's and later when Bodenplatte is out, they will add the MW50 boost and maybe the rockets. 

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I'm curious as to how the MK-108 will sound - it sounded like an air hammer in old IL2 (I thought it sounded pretty cool) It seems I heard or read an interview were Allied bomber crew saying they sounded compressed air hammers or jack hammers. Not sure if there are any audio of it anywhere?

 

As far as hitting with the 108 - I think that most guys that hit well with the 20mm will end up doing the same with the 108. I usually fire always within 400 meters and quite often 100 meters or less.

 

People that try to spray and pray aren't going to hit a thing with it though, lol.

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The M4 cannon on the P39 should be similar in how you use it, as it too is a low velocity, low rate of fire weapon.

 

Get in close, and use the cannon for the coup de grace.

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