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Axis, levers and Sliders and controls of a plane.

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I have a number of axis or sliders on my various game controllers.  I know that not all the planes are modeled to make use of a axis control when a particular plane did not have such.  An example might be flaps.  In some planes it was just a button for full up or full down.  In others there might be a lever but it was still just full up or full down.  And in still other planes the lever gave gradual change.

What I am wondering is what are all the possible uses of a axis or slider in BoX.  

These are the things I would like to assign to a axis or slider if they act so for plane that actually did have gradient change to a lever.

   Throttle (I think this is universal)

   breaks

   prop pitch

   mixture

   radiator water

   radiator oil

   flaps

   cowl 'flaps'

 

I would not want to waist an axis on my controllers when all it would do is make the action in the plane either on or off.

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I don't think, you can set flaps to an axis for any aircraft in the game, however for the 109s it would definitely make sense, as their flaps were operated by a hand wheel, like the elevator trim, which you forgot to mention. Elevator trim works with axis for all 109 versions, plus the Ju52.

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Curious about this myself.  I've got a trio of new axises to bind and I am not sure where to get the most mileage out of them.  I fly all types of craft so I can consider both single and multi-engine setups.  If no one knows, I'll have to play with it a bit.

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I don't think, you can set flaps to an axis for any aircraft in the game, however for the 109s it would definitely make sense, as their flaps were operated by a hand wheel, like the elevator trim, which you forgot to mention. Elevator trim works with axis for all 109 versions, plus the Ju52.

Actually, it doesn’t really make sense for the 109. Setting flaps in a 109 took quite some time and multiple turns of a big, heavy wheel. Having it on an axis would allow you to set the flaps instantly and then forget about them, even if them took a realistic amount of time to deploy.

 

The “press and hold” system is the best way to model the manual flaps on the 109s and the I-16, and in fact I think it should include the raising and lowering of the landing gear on the I-16 as well.

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How about the Spitfire? Was its flaps full up or down or did it have gradual degrees?

Pneumatic flaps, similar to the Yaks. Only two positions (up/down). Since lowering the flaps interfered with the flow of air through the underwing radiators, they were strictly used for landing only (Seafires were the exception)

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hi, depend of the controller you have,

but i d suggest assign first what you need fast in combat   to the easiest  access  keys or axis you got . 

 

good example for me, you guy s talk about the  109 , since i changed flaps settings from a switch of the base of the  controller to the pinky button top left of my x55 throttle , (my hand stay on the throttle), it s almost like  a switch positions flaps like the 190 i mean, i use it in combat constantly just since.

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Actually, it doesn’t really make sense for the 109. Setting flaps in a 109 took quite some time and multiple turns of a big, heavy wheel. Having it on an axis would allow you to set the flaps instantly and then forget about them, even if them took a realistic amount of time to deploy. The “press and hold” system is the best way to model the manual flaps on the 109s and the I-16, and in fact I think it should include the raising and lowering of the landing gear on the I-16 as well.

LOL, yes you are of course right. I think I was in the impression of my moving the elevator trim with my Saitek Trim Wheel, where you do the same, that the RL pilot does.

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Same situation with RPMs for the early Pe-2s: it was some sort of hand cranked wheel or some such, which is why you have to use a button press for increasing/decreasing it in the sim.

 

This is, incidentally, something I learned to my peril. I was halfway down the runway before I realized my RPM axis was not working. Spent the first minute of flight frantically cranking up my RPM while trying to keep my bomber from stalling and smashing into the ground. I'm sure my gunners had a blast. :)

Edited by 71st_AH_Yankee_

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The “press and hold” system is the best way to model the manual flaps on the 109s and the I-16, and in fact I think it should include the raising and lowering of the landing gear on the I-16 as well.

Pretty sure it does work like that for the gear on the I-16, iirc.

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Everything on that OP list can be set to some kind of axis, toggle or multi-direction hat. I have a split throttle with RPM/prop pitch on one side and engine throttle on the other, oil and water rads on a 4 way hat, cowl outlets on a progressive slider, inlet flaps on a 2 way switch, flaps on a two way switch, fuel mix on a separate hat along with auto level and push to talk for comms, universal breaks on a button and left and right independent breaks on pedals. All in all the key mapping in the game is fairly good, if a little fiddly at times.

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Pretty sure it does work like that for the gear on the I-16, iirc.

Nope, it doesn’t. You just push the button once and the gear slowly lowers/raises over half a minute.

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It seems to me that the only good use i can get out of a control of gradual movement are the plane controls of pitch, roll, and yaw.  Then throttle, prop pitch and mixture.  This games does not seem to use trims much if at all.  I have a CH Throttle quadrant with 6 levers and assigning the throttle and prop pitch, water and oil radiators, and mixture is about it.  Assigning landing gear, flaps while looking good is deceptive because the levers are just acting as an on of off button meaning I can put the lever full forward and get flaps down but if the then move it back a bit and then forward again I get flaps up.   My conclusion is that the most use of any levers or sliders on a controller I can get are throttle, prop pitch, water radiator, oil radiator, mixture.     Of course if I were operating a multi engine plane then I could use a lever for each throttle and such.   

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If you don’t use trim, then you are definitely not getting the most out of your aircraft.

 

Also: you need at least one extra lever to properly use the La-5’s air cooling system.

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I have supercharger mapped to axis. It works now with just 2 positions but later when super 3 is added I don't know how it will work.

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I did not think that rudder trim existed in this game.  Does it?  Does it exist for the Yak?  And I think the elevator trim exist in a 109 or maybe 190 but it really is a 'horizontal stabilizer trim' and it was operated by two buttons, not a slider or lever with many degrees.

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I did not think that rudder trim existed in this game. Does it? Does it exist for the Yak? And I think the elevator trim exist in a 109 or maybe 190 but it really is a 'horizontal stabilizer trim' and it was operated by two buttons, not a slider or lever with many degrees.

The 109/190 adjustible stabilizer “trim” (it’s not trim tabs but has the same effect) each have their own controls that can be mapped (I just set them to the same buttons that I use for pitch trim) One of them can be mapped to an axis, the other cannot - I forget which one. For practical purposes they work the same as normal pitch trim and can be set to a large range of settings (-100 to +100 or something like that) Other than the stabilizer the Fw 190 and Bf 109 have no adjustible trim.

 

For planes that use trim tabs, it depends on which ones you can use on each plane. The Lavochkin fighters for instance have adjustible trim on all three axis (elevator, aileron and rudder) while the MiG-3 only has elevator and rudder but not ailerons. I think the I-16 is the only plane that has no adjustible trim at all.

 

Some planes have visible trim tabs that aren’t usable. For instance the IL-2s have very noticable tabs on its ailerons, but you can’t use these, because they weren’t adjustible in flight and could only be set by the ground crew. The trim tabs on the elevators and rudder are fully functional though.

 

In any case: Trim is important if you want to fly fast and energy efficient, and it should not be overlooked.

Edited by Finkeren

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anybody got rudder on  axis ? i know it is not realistic but ,i got it on rotary on throttle, i got my thumb on it, to me it s way more accurate as the twist of the stick  , can even use it as a trim. 

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They don't work the same at all, you'll never relieve elevator stick forces with stab trim, why the 109 elevator locks up at higher speeds.  It just appears similar in game, because you can't physically feel stick forces.

 

Might be easier to visualize a stab as changing the attack angle of your wing directly, while a tab is balancing out the force on the elevator allowing the pilot easier pitch control to change that angle as desired with a pull.

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They don't work the same at all, you'll never relieve elevator stick forces with stab trim, why the 109 elevator locks up at higher speeds. It just appears similar in game, because you can't physically feel stick forces.

 

Might be easier to visualize a stab as changing the attack angle of your wing directly, while a tab is balancing out the force on the elevator allowing the pilot easier pitch control to change that angle as desired with a pull.

Absolutely true. The only reason I said that “the result is the same” is because in both cases they are used to stabilize the plane in level flight.

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I don't think, you can set flaps to an axis for any aircraft in the game, however for the 109s it would definitely make sense, as their flaps were operated by a hand wheel, like the elevator trim, which you forgot to mention. Elevator trim works with axis for all 109 versions, plus the Ju52.

Except the fact that any axis cannot transfer how hard it is to move the wheel at different speeds and how many rotations does it need.

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Except the fact that any axis cannot transfer how hard it is to move the wheel at different speeds and how many rotations does it need.

But that counts for your stick as well. And the number of rotations it needs, is simulated, when you use a trim wheel.

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They don't work the same at all, you'll never relieve elevator stick forces with stab trim, why the 109 elevator locks up at higher speeds.  It just appears similar in game, because you can't physically feel stick forces.

 

Might be easier to visualize a stab as changing the attack angle of your wing directly, while a tab is balancing out the force on the elevator allowing the pilot easier pitch control to change that angle as desired with a pull.

 

I wave the Bullsh*t flag on your assertion. What do you mean they don't work the same? The Piper Super Cub I fly has stab trim (the whole stabilizer is trimmed) as did the F-4, F-16 and Airbus 320 that I flew. The Citabria I fly has an elevator trim tab as did the DC-9/MD-80s I flew. Mechanically there is a difference, but the EFFECT is the same.

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I wave the Bullsh*t flag on your assertion. What do you mean they don't work the same? The Piper Super Cub I fly has stab trim (the whole stabilizer is trimmed) as did the F-4, F-16 and Airbus 320 that I flew. The Citabria I fly has an elevator trim tab as did the DC-9/MD-80s I flew. Mechanically there is a difference, but the EFFECT is the same.

The effect on trim is the same, but he is right that you can’t use adjustible stabilizer to lighten the forces on the stick when pulling out of a dive.

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The effect on trim is the same, but he is right that you can’t use adjustible stabilizer to lighten the forces on the stick when pulling out of a dive.

Well this tangent is not germane to the OP's questions. Trimming the stab or the elevator trim tab is effectively the same thing. So Crunch's opening statement, "They don't work the same at all..." is WRONG. I can in fact relieve stick forces with stab trim. I can in fact relieve stick forces with elevator trim. The problem arises at high speed because of the physical limits of range of displacement of the stab or trim tab. There is a pretty big range of speeds where trim is effective, go faster and you run out of trim authority. To pick something trim is NOT designed to do (high speed dive recovery) as evidence that it "don't work the same at all..." is simply poor logic. Your agreement with Crunch is IMO mudding the waters. 1G Comfy Chair Fighter Pilots deserve cogent commentary. :salute: 

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