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La-5FN, anyone?

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We'll se with FW but 109 pilots at least, are ready to be crushed i'm afraid.

 

We'll talk about it when it will be deployed but don't forget about P-39, that will be probably a bad surprise for all of us LW pilots.

 

 There is nothing to be afraid man, 190 have no match, i thinks is a perfect fighter, no mentioning armament, come on!

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If the performance of the La-5 w/ M-82F is any indicator, the FN is going to make the typical German pick 'n runners want to learn how to actually dogfight (you know who you are).

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Nothing will put the LW at a significant disadvantage.   Even the M82F engine is still not capable of outrunning a FW190 flat out.

 

Gonna have to disagree Moach. I can outrun or stay with 190s pretty handily on the deck in a La5F with my outlet closed completely. I actually find 109s scarier than 190s in the F because they have the possibility of outclimbing me; The 190s don't. It's probably true that the 190 is faster eventually, but the amount of time it takes to get out of gun range of an F = you'll be dead before then. 

 

With the FN getting another boost on top of that to 1850hp, the FN becomes a shark and 190s are it's prey. 

 

I think the difficulty of managing the Allison engine will keep many from flying the P-39, but I could see it filling the gap for the VVS as a fighter that performs well at medium altitude (2000-5000m range)

P-40 is quite popular among VVS pilots, and it has the same Allison V-1710 engine. Definitely a handful, though.

Not the same engine exactly but the operation is the same, though the limits will likely be a good deal less restrictive.

It doesn't really "have" 200 more horsepower. It is basically the same engine developing the same power output for a given manifold pressure, but the -63 had been improved to allow running a higher MP and for longer.

 

That is always the issue. When seeing claims like this, you always have to assume overclaiming by some 200-500% - regardless which air force you're talking about. Still, even taking that into account, it does seem that they early deployment of the La-5FN achieved results that were far better than the VVS was used to see.

 

Whilst the HP of the version we're getting is boosted to 1730hp If I'm not mistaken, what matters more is the aerodynamics. The Yak-1 and Yak-1b have the same Klimov, but the 1B is night and day better.

 

The Airacobra is a way better designed chassis vs the Warhawk, though I don't know how the numbers compare.  

 

And let's not forget roll.  The La-5 FN is supposed to have an even better roll rate than the existing La-5; which is already on a par with the 190.  Now this of course has more to do with modelling than reality but unless 'adjusted' the FN is going to be real Tie fighter material (actually better than a Tie fighter I'd have thought) . 

 

And true, the 190 is 'marginally' faster than a La-5 down on the deck but as those of us who fly the 190 know, it takes some minutes of balls-to-the-wall flat-out racing for this advantage to manifest itself.  If the FN is 40-50 kph faster than the bog standard version it will eat 190s alive in almost any situation.

 

Roll, speed, climb, maneuverability; all significantly better than the current La-5. 

 

So, I guess we shall see what we shall see when this thing gets released.  Funny, but if you believe the Spit actually breathed some new life back into the game (which I do) then I think the La-5 FN has the potential to choke it half to death.  There's an old saying about being hoist by ones own petard.  This is going to be interesting.

 

 The FN is going to be very unpleasant for Luftwaffe only pilots. 

 

Oh?  The La-5 with the optional engine has no time limit on the boost and I thought that was the same engine as the La-5FN.    How do they differ?

The F has the La5's boosted mode as it's nominal mode with no boost available. The FN adds yet another boost mode to the nominal mode for a max of 1850hp. Plus some aerodynamic improvements.

Edited by GridiroN

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Overall the FN will be pretty much exclusively an improvement over the La-5, which is already a capable plane in the sim.
 

The improved cockpit alone is a big upgrade.  A 30-50kph speed advantage is going to be fantastic.

 

Also, doesn't the FN have a better supercharger, so it doesn't die entirely above 4km?

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If the performance of the La-5 w/ M-82F is any indicator, the FN is going to make the typical German pick 'n runners want to learn how to actually dogfight (you know who you are).

 

 

Um ... would you care to elaborate a little? What specifically do you mean by "actually dogfight"?

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Um ... would you care to elaborate a little? What specifically do you mean by "actually dogfight"?

 

Specifically, not doing this: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/206598375

 

And then, I kid you not, 10 minutes later this: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/206599588

 

The 109 had gunpods mounted, he wasn't going anywhere fast.  He could have at least made an attempt at doing some BFM to save his bacon.  Fun fact: the La-5 is pretty horrible at slow speeds (stubby wings) and is constantly punching itself in the face with every turn it is forced to make that requires more than 1 degree AoA.  The 109 pilot, in that situation, needs to be thinking about going slow rather than fast...

 

The 190 ham-fisted his throttle through the firewall for his entire escape attempt and all it got him was a left wing to the back of the dome.

 

When the FN makes it debut, running home is no longer going to be the best option.  It's going to be a rude awakening for some people.  

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Damn it, every time I watch you, Krupinskii or any other good La-5 pilot I become tempted to take it for a spin. Then I give it a chance, only to be reminded soon how bad I am in it. Seriously, whats the trick to handle it that well ?

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Damn it, every time I watch you, Krupinskii or any other good La-5 pilot I become tempted to take it for a spin. Then I give it a chance, only to be reminded soon how bad I am in it. Seriously, whats the trick to handle it that well ?

That well I don’t know, but the La-5 did change in a big way for me with 2.012. I used to not be able to do a thing with it, now it’s my second favorite ride on the VVS side after the MiG, and I fly it much like I do the Fw 190. In many ways it really is a “poor man’s Fw 190”.

 

With the improved rear FoV, extra ammo and additional 150hp (plus however much it gains above 2000m) the FN is gonna be less of a “poor man’s” version and just a straight-up killer at low altitudes.

 

Will the La-5FN be the best fighter in the sim? No, probably not. I think the Fw 190 and Bf 109F4-G4 are still both overall superior, but the current MP situation shows us, that the VVS really doesn’t need the best aircraft to be able to dominate, and the La-5FN is gonna further close the performance gap (below 2000m) and that I think is gonna hit the LW pilots hard.

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Specifically, not doing this: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/206598375

 

And then, I kid you not, 10 minutes later this: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/206599588

 

The 109 had gunpods mounted, he wasn't going anywhere fast.  He could have at least made an attempt at doing some BFM to save his bacon.  Fun fact: the La-5 is pretty horrible at slow speeds (stubby wings) and is constantly punching itself in the face with every turn it is forced to make that requires more than 1 degree AoA.  The 109 pilot, in that situation, needs to be thinking about going slow rather than fast...

 

The 190 ham-fisted his throttle through the firewall for his entire escape attempt and all it got him was a left wing to the back of the dome.

 

When the FN makes it debut, running home is no longer going to be the best option.  It's going to be a rude awakening for some people.  

 

While you know that I share your thoughts about the common German "fighting style" when It comes to actual dogfights (especially when the objective need for it arises), I do have some sympathy for that 190. The La-5 is simply the 190's worst nightmare. It's fast, so you can rarely effectively run, you cannot outclimb it from a deck position, it rolls about as good as you, it turns better than you at most speeds, your better instantaneous turn is rarely enough to annoy him for longer than a few seconds and it has a lower stall speed. I cannot remember a single time when I was beaten by a 190 that engaged in scissoring/rolling maneuvers with me to save it's bacon when I was in an La-5. It's gotten to a point where I'm looking at an enemy and if I see a 190, my immediate thought is "Phew, just a 190, yummy". So yeah, 109 pilots who do that simply do not really know the matchup or understand their plane's capability compared to the La-5, since you have to handle an La-5 differently than a Yak, but a 190 pilot is...well, kinda boned in those scenarios for the most part. ^^

Edited by JG4_Etherlight

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Specifically, not doing this: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/206598375

 

And then, I kid you not, 10 minutes later this: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/206599588

 

The 109 had gunpods mounted, he wasn't going anywhere fast.  He could have at least made an attempt at doing some BFM to save his bacon.  Fun fact: the La-5 is pretty horrible at slow speeds (stubby wings) and is constantly punching itself in the face with every turn it is forced to make that requires more than 1 degree AoA.  The 109 pilot, in that situation, needs to be thinking about going slow rather than fast...

 

The 190 ham-fisted his throttle through the firewall for his entire escape attempt and all it got him was a left wing to the back of the dome.

 

When the FN makes it debut, running home is no longer going to be the best option.  It's going to be a rude awakening for some people.  

 

 

If the videos demonstrate anything at all, (apart from the fact that the La-5 is essentially already just as fast as a 190) it's that 190 pilots (in particular) need to totally abandon any and all interest in "dog fighting".  Dog fighting in a 190 isn't going to be an effective answer to an over-modeled La-5 FN. [Edited] The only other option available to the devs is to significantly limit the performance of the existing La-5 .  But that just means that anyone who ever won a fight while flying a La-5, actually got themselves a bit of a free pass.

 

And before you tell me that can't happen, explain the recent reduction in the top speed of the Yak 1 - following the introduction of the 1B.

 

Please do not state your opinion as fact on future FMs.

Edited by Bearcat

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If the videos demonstrate anything at all, (apart from the fact that the La-5 is essentially already just as fast as a 190) it's that 190 pilots (in particular) need to totally abandon any and all interest in "dog fighting".  Dog fighting in a 190 isn't going to be an effective answer to an over-modeled La-5 FN.  And it will be over-modeled.  The only other option available to the devs is to significantly limit the performance of the existing La-5 .  But that just means that anyone who ever won a fight while flying a La-5, actually got themselves a bit of a free pass.

 

And before you tell me that can't happen, explain the recent reduction in the top speed of the Yak 1 - following the introduction of the 1B.

 

Hey. Youre so right. I have been a while away. And will be again. Just really funny how delusinal all this discussions still are. I guess it will never change

Suggestion: Have a look at star citizen. Bias is no thing there. Its everything fiction. Not just parts like here.

:P Waste of time... Bye again! :)

Edited by Irgendjemand

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 There is nothing to be afraid man, 190 have no match, i thinks is a perfect fighter, no mentioning armament, come on!

 

I'm afraid because of the fragility of 109, and the lack of dive acceleration. However i think that P-39 will be worst than La5F for LW pilots. The our biggest problem is the separation from the enemy when diving.

Edited by 150GCT_Veltro

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If the videos demonstrate anything at all, (apart from the fact that the La-5 is essentially already just as fast as a 190) it's that 190 pilots (in particular) need to totally abandon any and all interest in "dog fighting".  Dog fighting in a 190 isn't going to be an effective answer to an over-modeled La-5 FN.  And it will be over-modeled.  The only other option available to the devs is to significantly limit the performance of the existing La-5 .  But that just means that anyone who ever won a fight while flying a La-5, actually got themselves a bit of a free pass.

 

And before you tell me that can't happen, explain the recent reduction in the top speed of the Yak 1 - following the introduction of the 1B.

 

There will be no need for any changes, Wulf, because the La-5 is NOT faster than the Fw 190 on the deck. I just ran a test this morning (autumn map, full fuel load, standard loadout - which for the Fw 190 includes wing guns, etc.) The La-5 with F-engine on full boost, every intake and outlet closed and properly trimmed does 548kph and overheats in an instant. The Fw 190A3 with MG-FFs in the wings does 555kph on emergency and accelerates way better. The Fw 190A5 with MG-FFs and outlets closed on emergency does 570 and overheats fairly fast. Note, that the Fw 190 benefits further from a reduced fuel load and deleting the wing guns, so in the reality of online combat, the Fw 190's advantage is larger.

 

The Fw 190 is faster than the La-5 on the deck and it accelerates better. The La-5FN is gonna be a different story though - I have seen the FN listed as doing 583kph on the deck and a full 22m/s climb rate at SL, which would be downright murderous to a Fw 190 attempting to fight it down low. Even if these numbers are overly optimistic (and I think they might be) the La-5FN is still gonna be the fastest fighter on the deck and a serious threat to any LW fighter under 2000m in a way the La-5 just isn't at the moment.

 

Of course the Fw 190 is still gonna have the advantage of being easier to fly, better armed and having better performance at altitude, so even if the La-5FN is a beast down low, the LW will still rule the stratosphere.

Edited by Finkeren
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Why do german only players always (of course not all of them ;) ) expect to get away when they got themselves into a bad situation? :biggrin:

Sometimes the odds are against you and there is nothing you can do than try and surprise, have luck and skill on your side. Hell, this is the whole story of a VVS pilots life lol.

 

So for once this changes near ground level in a La-5FN, so some people will adopt tactics, others will yell.

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Thanks for doing some testing. Proves to be much more useful than the hyperbole being shouted.

 

Even if the La-5FN is on the optimistic side (we'll see about that) it doesn't negate that the performance differences and ease of use of the German fighters with most things on automatic aren't going to be close enough that if you fight right and use teamwork that you won't still be able to overwhelm and defeat the enemy. Yeah the La-5FN is going to be more dangerous in an experienced pilots hands but that is still negated by good teamwork.

 

I've been flying FW190A-5 and Bf109G-4 quite a lot in the last few days and they are superb aircraft. They are no slouches and in the medium and high altitudes the Bf109 is still the reigning king. That gives you all kinds of advantages to dictate fights. The La-5FN is going to be tons of fun, its going to be a very capable opponent and its one of the few Allied fighters that will be presently in the game that are going to be able to fight more or less on par with their German opponents at low and low to medium altitudes but that doesn't somehow spell instant doom.


Why do german only players always (of course not all of them ;) ) expect to get away when they got themselves into a bad situation? :biggrin:
Sometimes the odds are against you and there is nothing you can do than try and surprise, have luck and skill on your side. Hell, this is the whole story of a VVS pilots life lol.

So for once this changes near ground level in a La-5FN, so some people will adopt tactics, others will yell.

 

Exactly :)

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My tactic with the la-5 was to climb to have gain some energy... and fw dove on my 6 and killed me in a second.

 

I adapted my tactic... I took an IL-2.

Edited by Eicio

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Why do german only players always (of course not all of them ;) ) expect to get away when they got themselves into a bad situation? :biggrin:

Sometimes the odds are against you and there is nothing you can do than try and surprise, have luck and skill on your side. Hell, this is the whole story of a VVS pilots life lol.

 

So for once this changes near ground level in a La-5FN, so some people will adopt tactics, others will yell.

Truer words have never been spoken. I get so tired of having the discussion start with “If I’m in a Fw190 at tree top altitude and he is right on my six with equal energy, there is nothing I can do” - you don’t say?!??

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Truer words have never been spoken. I get so tired of having the discussion start with “If I’m in a Fw190 at tree top altitude and he is right on my six with equal energy, there is nothing I can do” - you don’t say?!??

 

That's an accurate resume of my few flights in a 190 on WoL :D

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I am honestly thrilled because right now, when I fly my G2 to it's strengths, I am untouchable. Shooting down somebody is another question though :D LA5FN will be great addition to the game. What am I more interested in though, is IL2 sending current performance data somewhere? Or I must do testing manually(reading from the gauges). I'd like to do some testing.

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I am honestly thrilled because right now, when I fly my G2 to it's strengths, I am untouchable. Shooting down somebody is another question though :D LA5FN will be great addition to the game. What am I more interested in though, is IL2 sending current performance data somewhere? Or I must do testing manually(reading from the gauges). I'd like to do some testing.

 

Here you go.

 

Il-2 Aircraft specs

 

Grt M

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I am honestly thrilled because right now, when I fly my G2 to it's strengths, I am untouchable. Shooting down somebody is another question though :D LA5FN will be great addition to the game.

Tbh I don’t think the La-5FN will do that much to counter the “untouchability” of a well-flown 109. “Untouchable” basically means, that you have a significant altitude advantage and the ability to keep that advantage, which is exactly what the 109 is really good at. The La-5FN doesn’t really threaten that superiority, unless you happen to find yourself in a co-E situation below 2K, which begs the question of what you were doing down there in the first place, if you were trying to be untouchable.

 

Where the 109 could be in trouble is when you actually try to get down there and mix it up with the lowly peasants. The La-5FN could shatter the 109’s ability to disengage at will from a low level fight, and that’s gonna spell trouble, because once you commit to a fight, you are tied up in a do-or-die scenario with no easy way out.

Edited by Finkeren

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We are talking about ETO, a low altitude theater.

If we want to defend our targets from IL2 attacks at very low altitude, for ex., how can we fly at high altitude?

 

We'll have to manage this threat from 3k to 0k.

Edited by 150GCT_Veltro

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We are talking about ETO, a low altitude theater.

If we want to defend our targets from IL2 attacks at very low altitude, for ex., how can we fly at high altitude?

 

We'll have to manage this threat from 3k to 0k.

Obviously, if you want to actually do something for the mission you can’t fly around near the edge of space all the time. You have to get down there and get your hands dirty at some point. I was just pointing out, that a 109 can make itself untouchable against a La-5FN just as well as any other VVS fighter.

 

But yeah, I understand, you have a war to lose...

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I feel like that FN won't be 'that' much better against a 109 in a dogfight, the LA5 atm is not very good at turning a close in dogfight fight to its advantage currently. The extra power will help but I don't think it will be a gamechanger outside of catching runners.

 

Certainly the current La5 is nothing like the 1946 machine, I see no reason the FN will be.

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We are talking about ETO, a low altitude theater.

If we want to defend our targets from IL2 attacks at very low altitude, for ex., how can we fly at high altitude?

 

We'll have to manage this threat from 3k to 0k.

 

 

And sometimes troopers must put themselves into a disadvantageous position for the cause.  How did Luftwaffe pilots attempt to adapt and overcome, tactically?

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We are talking about ETO, a low altitude theater.

If we want to defend our targets from IL2 attacks at very low altitude, for ex., how can we fly at high altitude?

 

We'll have to manage this threat from 3k to 0k.

 

You are missing the point.   Your aircraft strength is that it can dive from altitude,  make a kill them climb up to do it again to someone else.  Furthermore your aircraft are faster and  more agile than anything the VVS has above 2K.  Even the VVS 'High Altitude Fighter', the Mig,  is slower than anything except the 109 E7 at 6K.   You can also climb better than any VVS fighter above 3K.  The Bottom line is that you can dive from 6K or you can dive from 4k and just climb away from any VVS aircraft that tries to fight you at that alt.  You may struggle to have a turnfight with a Yak at low altitude and your 190 may struggle to get away from an LA-5 if you are low and slow but can kill anything below you and have no need at all to fly or fight low or slow.

Edited by 56RAF_Roblex

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Why do german only players always (of course not all of them ;) ) expect to get away when they got themselves into a bad situation? :biggrin:

Sometimes the odds are against you and there is nothing you can do than try and surprise, have luck and skill on your side. Hell, this is the whole story of a VVS pilots life lol.

 

So for once this changes near ground level in a La-5FN, so some people will adopt tactics, others will yell.

Actually the pilot memoirs mention how the germans never utilized full ability of their me109s for the most part. If they did and engaged you in a dogfight then it means that the german pilot is an ace. Noob pilots ran straight lines and climbed away.

 

This corresponds with whatever we see in game very well.

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Truer words have never been spoken. I get so tired of having the discussion start with “If I’m in a Fw190 at tree top altitude and he is right on my six with equal energy, there is nothing I can do” - you don’t say?!??

 

Aye... I find the reaction of some players baffling at times. It's as if there is something wrong with an aircraft being introduced that is better than another side's aircraft, regardless of how accuracy it is.

 

The world will not end with the La-5FNs introduction, even if it was made available to all players and in generous numbers on WoL/TAW. Just because an A/C is better than yours, doesn't mean you cannot fight at all. The VVS has been learning this lesson for years now, and it IS very gratifying to shoot down a 109 in a Mig-3. :)

 

Now, I'm not going to pretend that airframes don't matter: they absolutely do. Skill is the most important factor in air combat for sure, but a skilled pilot in a P-40 is still going to struggle against a lesser pilot in a 109 F4. Sure, sometimes it will mean that you will find yourself in a nearly unwinnable situation, but there's nothing wrong with that if it is accurate. 

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Aye... I find the reaction of some players baffling at times. It's as if there is something wrong with an aircraft being introduced that is better than another side's aircraft, regardless of how accuracy it is.

 

 

There was a thread ages ago on ATAG where someone asked what the best manoeuvres were to stay untouched in a 109 once things went bad. One of the very successful virtual Blue pilots responded - pleasantly - by pointing out that there is no 'street fighter' move out there, you have to fly so as to avoid being in that situation in the first place (ie, realistically). This was met with disbelief by the original poster, who demanded to know how he should fly so as to lose a Spitfire, 100m behind him on the deck.

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There was a thread ages ago on ATAG where someone asked what the best manoeuvres were to stay untouched in a 109 once things went bad. One of the very successful virtual Blue pilots responded - pleasantly - by pointing out that there is no 'street fighter' move out there, you have to fly so as to avoid being in that situation in the first place (ie, realistically). This was met with disbelief by the original poster, who demanded to know how he should fly so as to lose a Spitfire, 100m behind him on the deck.

 

Nice. A nice example of how not to think. 

 

I mean, I don't begrudge the LW pilots for having the better hardware. That's how it was. Heck, we should be _happy_ us VVS pilots don't also have to deal with the terrible ergonomics of soviet designs. But let's not pretend that the LW doesn't have a major advantage already, and will be in dire straights just because the VVS finally gets a truly competitive aircraft.

 

After all, if the La-5FN is seen as such a threat, imagine the situation when all the Kuban planeset comes out. The VVS is definitely getting a major boost (even though it will still be at a disadvantage)... the Yak-7b and Airacobras are contemporaries of the Yak-1b, and will definitely go a long way towards leveling the playing field. :)

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The best part of the new La-5 will be the end of self-congratulatory posts by VVS pilots for overcoming the superior LW hardware.

 

;)

 

Calm down, just poking fun.

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Calm down, just poking fun.

 

 

Of course you were: everyone knows that any and all defeats suffered in Russia are due to distance, mud, weather, temperature, numbers etc.

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As expected, this discussion has morphed into yet another example of the VVS Echo Chamber deliberately misconstruing opposing comments.

 

 However, we shall see what we shall see once the FN is released.  At that point, all we need to know is, will the speed of the La-5 remain constant at 575 kph on the deck in Moscow Winter  or will it 'inexplicably' change?  And, will the roll rate of the La-5 remain the same at 2.5 sec.s for a fully roll at 450 kph, or will it change?

 

Nothing else really matters.   That will tell us all we need to know.

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will the speed of the La-5 remain constant at 575 kph on the deck in Moscow Winter  or will it 'inexplicably' change? 

 

You shouldn't use winter maps to test speed, as they will go faster because of increased power in winter conditions. You should use the Moscow autumn map which has the 15°C standard temperature at ground level. In this scenario the La-5 in boosted mode goes up to around 545 km/h. For example in that Moscow Winter the Fw 190 A-5 can go up to 610 km/h at the deck.

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You are missing the point.   Your aircraft strength is that it can dive from altitude,  make a kill them climb up to do it again to someone else.  Furthermore your aircraft are faster and  more agile than anything the VVS has above 2K.  Even the VVS 'High Altitude Fighter', the Mig,  is slower than anything except the 109 E7 at 6K.   You can also climb better than any VVS fighter above 3K.  The Bottom line is that you can dive from 6K or you can dive from 4k and just climb away from any VVS aircraft that tries to fight you at that alt.  You may struggle to have a turnfight with a Yak at low altitude and your 190 may struggle to get away from an LA-5 if you are low and slow but can kill anything below you and have no need at all to fly or fight low or slow.

 

This is the one most important ability in the real world, when you cant do, not one fatal mistake.That is possible for the in-game 109 too. But in real world i assume that the 109 was slightly better turner, than it is in-game. Also  at slow speeds(G2 atleast), and at speeds above 500 kph too.

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You shouldn't use winter maps to test speed, as they will go faster because of increased power in winter conditions. You should use the Moscow autumn map which has the 15°C standard temperature at ground level. In this scenario the La-5 in boosted mode goes up to around 545 km/h. For example in that Moscow Winter the Fw 190 A-5 can go up to 610 km/h at the deck.

 

 

Why is this a consideration at all if you're testing the aircraft on the same map?   All I want to know is; will the performance of the La-5 change when the FN gets released.  If it stays the same, the FN will have to be the fastest aircraft in the entire game with a roll-rate so quick it will likely break your neck.  

 

If the performance of the La-5 does change however, then there's some explaining to be done.  So yeah, Interesting times.

Edited by Wulf
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"with a roll-rate so quick it will likely break your neck"

 

lolololol

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Damn it, every time I watch you, Krupinskii or any other good La-5 pilot I become tempted to take it for a spin. Then I give it a chance, only to be reminded soon how bad I am in it. Seriously, whats the trick to handle it that well ?

 

Stick time! 

 

Krup is far and above the authority on all things La-5, I am just now unlocking its secrets (read: how to hit the broad side of a barn with its guns).  However some pointers that I've gleaned from my recent experiences:

 

Don't turn unless you have to. 

If you have to turn and you find yourself slower than 300kph you may want to think about tossing a notch of flaps in.

Don't turn unless you have to.

If you get a 6, your best option is to stay as fast as possible while using the roll rate to stay out of his guns.

Don't turn unless you have to.

Optimal radiator settings are: Inlet cowl flaps - 100% / Outlet cowl flaps - 15% / Oil rad - variable, use this to keep the engine cool. 

Don't turn unless you have to. 

 

 

While you know that I share your thoughts about the common German "fighting style" when It comes to actual dogfights (especially when the objective need for it arises), I do have some sympathy for that 190. The La-5 is simply the 190's worst nightmare. It's fast, so you can rarely effectively run, you cannot outclimb it from a deck position, it rolls about as good as you, it turns better than you at most speeds, your better instantaneous turn is rarely enough to annoy him for longer than a few seconds and it has a lower stall speed. I cannot remember a single time when I was beaten by a 190 that engaged in scissoring/rolling maneuvers with me to save it's bacon when I was in an La-5. It's gotten to a point where I'm looking at an enemy and if I see a 190, my immediate thought is "Phew, just a 190, yummy". So yeah, 109 pilots who do that simply do not really know the matchup or understand their plane's capability compared to the La-5, since you have to handle an La-5 differently than a Yak, but a 190 pilot is...well, kinda boned in those scenarios for the most part. ^^

 

I know we feel the same way, but I have to disagree that all 190s are boned in that scenario.  The 190 is a fantastic dogfighter IF you can leverage it right.  The only way to learn to leverage it correctly is by trying it.  Not going straight.  Throwing up you hands in defeat every time you get a moderately close 6 in a 190 is no way to learn how to fly in the "oh crap i'm screwed" scenarios.

 

If the videos demonstrate anything at all, (apart from the fact that the La-5 is essentially already just as fast as a 190) it's that 190 pilots (in particular) need to totally abandon any and all interest in "dog fighting".  Dog fighting in a 190 isn't going to be an effective answer to an over-modeled La-5 FN.  And it will be over-modeled.  The only other option available to the devs is to significantly limit the performance of the existing La-5 .  But that just means that anyone who ever won a fight while flying a La-5, actually got themselves a bit of a free pass.

 

And before you tell me that can't happen, explain the recent reduction in the top speed of the Yak 1 - following the introduction of the 1B.

 

The videos demonstrate that running away from a fight, when you know there is no hope of outrunning your opponent, is a dumb move.

 

I feel like that FN won't be 'that' much better against a 109 in a dogfight, the LA5 atm is not very good at turning a close in dogfight fight to its advantage currently. The extra power will help but I don't think it will be a gamechanger outside of catching runners.

 

Certainly the current La5 is nothing like the 1946 machine, I see no reason the FN will be.

 

Yeah... like I posted earlier the La-5 is horrid at slow speeds.  Anyone finding themselves in a 1 on 1 with an La-5 should be thinking about slowing down and going for an overshoot.  Don't be afraid of flaps.  Pro tip: a 190 floating on his landing flaps while cranking out emergency power will out turn most Russian planes. 

 

As expected, this discussion has morphed into yet another example of the VVS Echo Chamber deliberately misconstruing opposing comments.

 

 However, we shall see what we shall see once the FN is released.  At that point, all we need to know is, will the speed of the La-5 remain constant at 575 kph on the deck in Moscow Winter  or will it 'inexplicably' change?  And, will the roll rate of the La-5 remain the same at 2.5 sec.s for a fully roll at 450 kph, or will it change?

 

Nothing else really matters.   That will tell us all we need to know.

 

You're really harping on these FM parameters.  I'm not saying you're wrong, because I have no idea and have not done the testing, but you seem really hung up on it. 

 

This is hardly a VVS echo chamber... and I don't see anyone misconstruing comments other than you.

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Why is this a consideration at all if you're testing the aircraft on the same map?   All I want to know is; will the performance of the La-5 change when the FN gets released.

 

Just pointing it up because the 575 km/h number for the La-5 would appear as if the current La-5 has FN-like speeds, that's why the temperature factor has to be taken into account. I don't think it's going to change, because at least the autumn standard speed would be correct. Unless they change the way all planes in general are affected by winter conditions, that I really don't know how much would be the performance increase.

Edited by -=PHX=-SuperEtendard

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Stick time! 

 

Krup is far and above the authority on all things La-5, I am just now unlocking its secrets (read: how to hit the broad side of a barn with its guns).  However some pointers that I've gleaned from my recent experiences:

 

Don't turn unless you have to. 

If you have to turn and you find yourself slower than 300kph you may want to think about tossing a notch of flaps in.

Don't turn unless you have to.

If you get a 6, your best option is to stay as fast as possible while using the roll rate to stay out of his guns.

Don't turn unless you have to.

Optimal radiator settings are: Inlet cowl flaps - 100% / Outlet cowl flaps - 15% / Oil rad - variable, use this to keep the engine cool. 

Don't turn unless you have to. 

 

Few more things... You really have to be careful with the La5 flaps, they don't offer much of a turn advantage and they slow you down A LOT.

 

When you're in a mid-high speed fight, try not to turn hard enough that the slats come out... they also slow you down A LOT.

 

If you do manage to get stuck in a slow speed fight, and a 109/190 is slow enough that he's dropping flaps to turn with you, do the opposite... Put your flaps in and lol as you climb above him.  :biggrin:

 

This can be difficult though because if you time it wrong or you're not at a good angle from them, obviously they will just hang with you and get an easy shot. The La5 has the power to get you above them if you do it right.

 

When all else fails, use your superior roll rate to change directions as much as possible til they overshoot.

Edited by [TWB]Krupinskii
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