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BRADYS555

JU 88 Need a clue..

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Hi-

 

 I always thought that when the Upper forward firing MG was "locked" it was slaved to the piolets sight, but I cant figure out how to make it fire from the piolets position?

 

 

 

 

 

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Hi-

 

 I always thought that when the Upper forward firing MG was "locked" it was slaved to the piolets sight, but I cant figure out how to make it fire from the piolets position?

Hi You can't, you can hop into that gun position using default Ctrl C.

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Hi You can't, you can hop into that gun position using default Ctrl C.

Thank you,

 

Shouldn’t you be able to however ???

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Shouldn’t you be able to however ???

 

You should, but there is a bug which means you can't.

 

The only way to use it is to switch to that position, but that releases the gun, which sort of defeats the point.

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You should, but there is a bug which means you can't.

 

The only way to use it is to switch to that position, but that releases the gun, which sort of defeats the point.

Ok, presumably a fix is... in the offing ?

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You should, but there is a bug which means you can't.

 

A bug?  I don't think so.  They've made it this way intentionally.

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You should, but there is a bug which means you can't.

 

The only way to use it is to switch to that position, but that releases the gun, which sort of defeats the point.

 

 

Are you sure about that?  A hand held pivot mounted MG that can also be operated remotely (electrically I'd presume) by the pilot?  That would require some serious engineering if it was to remain properly aligned with the pilot's sight after it had been used by the bomb aimer or some other member of the crew. 

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Are you sure about that?  A hand held pivot mounted MG that can also be operated remotely (electrically I'd presume) by the pilot?  That would require some serious engineering if it was to remain properly aligned with the pilot's sight after it had been used by the bomb aimer or some other member of the crew.

 

It locks into place

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Are you sure about that?  A hand held pivot mounted MG that can also be operated remotely (electrically I'd presume) by the pilot?  That would require some serious engineering if it was to remain properly aligned with the pilot's sight after it had been used by the bomb aimer or some other member of the crew.

 

Yes. I am sure.

 

There was a forward locking mechanism. (If you hunt about on YouTube, you can find videos showing it being coupled/decoupled.)

 

Bewaffnung: 1 x MG 81 in der Frontscheibe, vom Piloten bedient, 1 x MG 131 im Bug, vom Bombenschützen bedient (A-Stand), zwei MG 81 in Linsenlafetten der hinteren Führersitzabdeckung (B-Stand) und 1 x MG 81 Z im rückwärtigen Teil der Bodenwanne, durch den Funker betätigt (C-Stand). Diese Bodenlafette Bola 39 wurde Ende 1941 durch die gepanzerte Bola 81 Z ersetzt. Bombenzuladung bis 3.000 kg. Vier Bombengehänge unter dem Mittelflügel für 2 x 1.000 kg oder 4 x 500 kg oder 2 x 1.000 kg und 2 x 250/500 kg. Dazu 10 x 50 kg im Rumpfbombenschacht.

The green text translates as:  " 1 x MG 81 in the front windscreen, operated by the pilot". There was a separate machine gun for the A-Stand, but this was lower on the front of the lower right section of the glass nose. The MG81 was a later addition. Earlier models (e.g. the A-1, and early A-4s, had an MG15... but again, it was lockable to allow the pilot to fire it).

 

The Ju 88 (at least the A1 and A4 variants) has a locking mechanism that fixes it to the forward part of the fuselage. This can actually be released so the bombardier can use it flexibly as well.

 

The Revi sight that is fitted in the IL-2:BoM Ju 88 is for the gun. If there was only a divebomb sight (Typ-BZA), then it is mounted to the top-left of the pilot and folds down for the dive-bomb attack. If it was one or the other, then fine. But currently it is a flawed implementation.

 

I've got some more references. If you want them, let me know and I'll dig them out.

 

 

 

References

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The brackets there for the dive bomb site, But there is no dive bomb site, my understanding is that both sites were used, that is fitted and if divi bombing was undertaken the dive bomb sight was folded down into position and then stowed after the drop.

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So, is thier a fix in for this or did I misunderstand?

 

No fix at the moment.

 

Yes, the version of the Ju 88 in BoM has the gun locking clamp and Revi sight.

 

However, firing the nose gun from the pilot position doesn't work.

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No fix at the moment.

 

Yes, the version of the Ju 88 in BoM has the gun locking clamp and Revi sight.

 

However, firing the nose gun from the pilot position doesn't work.

 

What's interesting is when I pull the trigger, you know to fire the gun, I can hear it click, the game that is, theirs  audio linked to in other words, suggesting that perhaps they had intended for it to work the way you would expect it to.

 

The Dive bomb sight however, that's another topic I suppose?

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What is the difference in functionality between the dive bomb sight mentioned above and the revi gunsight we have in the BoM example?

 

If it's appropriate then it obviously should be included. But what is it, and how did it function?

Genuinely no idea.

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Stuvi dive-bombsight

 

https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/78093-stuvi-5b-bza-1/

 

https://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/400389-Setting-the-Stuvi-in-Ju-88-Forums

 

The revi sight is just a gun sight, the Stuvi sight is for bombing and was hung from above , in the JU 88 it folded down when in use, the link above describes some of the differences, it was part auto piolet part bombardier, with a human in the link

 

http://www.virtualpilots.fi/feature/photoreports/hallinportti2002/stuvi3.jpg

Edited by BRADYS555

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What is the difference in functionality between the dive bomb sight mentioned above and the revi gunsight we have in the BoM example?

 

If it's appropriate then it obviously should be included. But what is it, and how did it function?

Genuinely no idea.

 

 

Extensive documentation (in German) on the BZA-1, as used on the Ju 88, can be found here:

 

http://www.deutscheluftwaffe.com/archiv/Dokumente/ABC/r/Reflexvisiere/BZA_1/BZA%201.html

 

Essentially, the Revi was for guns. The BZA is for dive-bombing.

 

If you divebomb in the Ju 88 at the moment, you need to manually compensate for the bomb-fall pattern. This is either by timing or by aligning on the bottom of the sight. Have a look at that reference (even if you can't read German), and scroll down to illustrations 19 & 20 (Abbildung / Abb. 19 & 20). Here you can see that not only does the sight help the alignment, but it also predicts the release moment.

 

 

As for "appropriate"...

 

The problem is that the Ju 88 has a mish-mash of different things.

 

  • Yes, there is a locking clamp on the A-Stand gun for pilot use. Yes, there is a Revi sight for firing it. Yes, the gun makes an audio-click. However, it does not fire.
  • On the other hand, the Ju 88 has dive brake and is capable of dive bombing. But it doesn't have the dive-bomb sight.
  • Yes, the Ju 88 can do level bombing, but the level-bombing sights in  IL-2:BoX are generic and don't really match the LotFe-7 that would be in a Ju 88 A-4.

 

Most of it is there, but it is all a bit "rough". It would certainly be good to get these features finished off. For some, these may be just "nice-to-haves" but, as a bomber pilot, I regard them as being a bit broken (and thus constitute bugs). Pretty much the same way that fighter pilots get passionate about FMs and ammunition. That said, I have come to understand that IL-2:BoX is not suited to being a bomber sim, so I fully understand if the Devs regard this as low-priority.

Edited by xvii-Dietrich
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What is the difference in functionality between the dive bomb sight mentioned above and the revi gunsight we have in the BoM example?

 

If it's appropriate then it obviously should be included. But what is it, and how did it function?

Genuinely no idea.

 

Not 100% sure if this was accurate from the original IL-2 but we did have a Stuvi sight for the Ju88A-4 in the older sim and it worked by having the pilot dial in height and speed calculations and the sight would adjust and give you a piper that you could try and place your bombs on target.

 

Basically you'd need to make sure that you were at the correct speed and altitude and that is the moment when the piper would be accurate. It's a precursor to the kind of CCIP bombing that modern aircraft employ.

Edited by ShamrockOneFive

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Depending on the stuvi model, if I am Understanding what I’ve been reading correctly, some models will automatically input speed and altitude

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Interesting stuff, thanks for the links.

Hopefully we'll get to see something like that implemented after the release of BoK, it sounds like there are still issues with the Ju 88 that need to be fixed.

 

It's a great aircraft to fly between the speed and heavy bombload, but with the appropriate sight to make dive-bombing easier it would be even more effective.

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Interesting stuff, thanks for the links.

Hopefully we'll get to see something like that implemented after the release of BoK, it sounds like there are still issues with the Ju 88 that need to be fixed.

 

It's a great aircraft to fly between the speed and heavy bombload, but with the appropriate sight to make dive-bombing easier it would be even more effective.

That and thier is so much they could do in the way if variants...

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On 11/29/2017 at 4:36 PM, xvii-Dietrich said:
  • Yes, there is a locking clamp on the A-Stand gun for pilot use. Yes, there is a Revi sight for firing it. Yes, the gun makes an audio-click. However, it does not fire.
  • On the other hand, the Ju 88 has dive brake and is capable of dive bombing. But it doesn't have the dive-bomb sight.
  • Yes, the Ju 88 can do level bombing, but the level-bombing sights in  IL-2:BoX are generic and don't really match the LotFe-7 that would be in a Ju 88 A-4.

 

 

Good listing of what is missing currently in the aircraft. #3 is common to all bombers in the sim and has always been underwhelming. Personally I find these things irksome, because all of them existed in earlier versions of the sim. Hell, as has already been pointed out, War Thunder is better in this regard, which is sort of amazing. 

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7 hours ago, ACG_Kai_Lae said:

War Thunder is better in this regard, which is sort of amazing. 

 

I mean, to be fair, they DO have several hundred people on their team, an exploitative ecosystem and millions upon millions of dollar revenue. That helps.

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I really love the Sim but stuff like this makes me wonder... 

Cant be that hard to implement the Gun, or other much needed improvements regarding bombers(fuel tanks management, dive sight e.g.)

 

Really hoping they will give some love to the older birds

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3 hours ago, III./ZG1_HeTzeR said:

I really love the Sim but stuff like this makes me wonder... 

Cant be that hard to implement the Gun, or other much needed improvements regarding bombers(fuel tanks management, dive sight e.g.)

 

Really hoping they will give some love to the older birds

 

I don't think it's hard and I think if we have a look at features they have implemented such as detailed jet engine simulation (including things like compressor stalls) or their new pilot physiology... it's clearly not a case of troublesome programming but rather time.

 

I hope that in doing the Ju88C-6a they will find a little time to wrap up a few other features. They just added the dive recovery pull-up system for a bunch of aircraft so it's possible that we'll see them do some of these fixes. I'd love to see the Stuvi show up.

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Really interesting! I always suspect the pilot could fire it - but I assumed it'd involve taking one hand off the stick to squeeze the trigger! The electric control is new to me. It would be nice to have this added (along with gun selection for the Hs-129).

 

Btw. The Me-410 should have a Stuvi bombsight - so we might see it added to the Ju-88 as part of a future upgrade pack! It is possible at least.

(Maybe also offer a Ju-87 D-5 & an expansion of the Bf-110G's weapons to include late war fits i.e. 30mm cannon).

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18 minutes ago, Avimimus said:

expansion of the Bf-110G's weapons to include late war fits i.e. 30mm cannon

Please

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