Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Wyatt

After kuban is that it for the eastern front? Can all the content be made into 1 game?

Recommended Posts

So one of my favorite games is 1946 because of all the content.

 

So after kuban is released do you think the devs should make a "il2:eastern front" game for 60 bucks that contains all of the content made up until this point?

 

This could be like a il2:1946 that could fund future development of the western front , and PTO

 

what do you guys think?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

So after kuban is released do you think the devs should make a "il2:eastern front" game for 60 bucks that contains all of the content made up until this point?

 

Why? That would just cut into their profits.  

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why? That would just cut into their profits.  

maybe im talking out of my butt but the "profit" model this studio chose was specifically to avoid problems like sales fluctuations that could shutter the studio. These packs were released incrementally to keep the lights on to the studio to keep the content pipeline going. Simulators are not selling millions of units these days and keeping the lights on at studios like this is not like keeping the lights on at other studios that can sell 1/10th the work to millions more buyers.

 

At a certain point the work they put into the game loses its value and it will make sense to package content like 1946 was packaged.

 

I mean you cant really argue that a 60 dollar game with the content of battle of stalingrad , battle of moscow , and battle of kuban combined into one would not be popular to a wider group of people the same way 1946 was.

Edited by guiltyspark

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wouldn't be surprised if there's an 'Eastern Front Bundle' discount offered at some point - but I can guarantee you it won't be $60 for a long time.

 

BoK isn't even fully out yet.

Edited by Custard

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wouldn't be surprised if there's an 'Eastern Front Bundle' discount offered at some point - but I can guarantee you it won't be $60 for a long time.

 

BoK isn't even fully out yet.

This would be like in 2019. Obviously BOK would be its own product for some time.

 

but after awhile are there really going to be 3 seperate packs you have to buy at full price? makes more sense to combine it into one big product instead of cutting the price of all 3 products that all have to be seperate

 

I mean long long term. For example when PTO is done and most of the content for the entire world airforces are done (if they go that far) Isnt the ultimate goal a il2:1946 type product with hundreds of extremely detailed planes that took years to develop?

Edited by guiltyspark

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, but Il-2 1946 had a commercial publisher. We're more likely to see 50-60% off sales or bundles (as happened with Rise of Flight).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Keep in mind that the Eastern Front is far from complete. We still have Kursk from the recent Tank Crew announcement.

 

I do not expect anything other than discounts at least until that is finished.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This would be like in 2019. Obviously BOK would be its own product for some time.

 

but after awhile are there really going to be 3 seperate packs you have to buy at full price? makes more sense to combine it into one big product instead of cutting the price of all 3 products that all have to be seperate

 

I mean long long term. For example when PTO is done and most of the content for the entire world airforces are done (if they go that far) Isnt the ultimate goal a il2:1946 type product with hundreds of extremely detailed planes that took years to develop?

Wanna play it? Buy it. We all did. Buy it on sale if you think that will make you feel better, but don't cry about it if the developers go away because too many people waited for a "bargain bin price".

  • Upvote 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's not quite there yet but when they offer Stalingrad and Moscow standard editions for $25 a pop that's not too bad. Give it another year and a bit and maybe you'll see Kuban for the same. You can get all three minus a few extra planes for $75. That's a lot of value for the dollar there all things considered... so long as you wait for sales.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wanna play it? Buy it. We all did. Buy it on sale if you think that will make you feel better, but don't cry about it if the developers go away because too many people waited for a "bargain bin price".

ya i guess its stupid asking for a more accessible product to bring more people into flight sims. maybe they should pull the game off steam because its taking food out of the developers mouths

Edited by guiltyspark

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ya i guess its stupid asking for a more accessible product to bring more people into flight sims. maybe they should pull the game off steam because its taking food out of the developers mouths

 

Curious what part makes things more accessible. Is it the single "product" which IMHO could be sorted out by offering a bundle package of the three Eastern Front releases or are you really looking at the price?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ya i guess its stupid asking for a more accessible product to bring more people into flight sims. maybe they should pull the game off steam because its taking food out of the developers mouths

Not stupid, you just gave to remember where you are. Games aren't cheap to make, especially those that simulate reality to a high degree.

 

This studio does not have a player base in the millions to generate revenue from, nor does it have funding from big name publishers that are able to produce a game that is a financial risk.

 

The reality is that the next game is dependant on the sales of the previous game. In order to maximise that potential keeping the prices high(ish) is beneficial to everyone.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not stupid, you just gave to remember where you are. Games aren't cheap to make, especially those that simulate reality to a high degree.

 

This studio does not have a player base in the millions to generate revenue from, nor does it have funding from big name publishers that are able to produce a game that is a financial risk.

 

The reality is that the next game is dependant on the sales of the previous game. In order to maximise that potential keeping the prices high(ish) is beneficial to everyone.

Listen its basic economics. The game cost a specific amount of money to make. They need to make more than that to cover the cost and have profit to pay the developers and fund new content and projects.

 

After a certain point. These economics break down as the game ages. The developers have been paid their wages , and new content has already been created. This is why you can buy videogames cheaper than what they launched as. Because their value has shrunk , therefor selling an old game at full price is a bad economic decision because it prevents sales. So developers and publishers lower the price BELOW their suggested retail price to get more sales.... Or they keep the price high and  sales of the product slow and eventually stagnate. Why set up your pricing that will kill a product when you can be creative and keep selling said product?

 

Repackaging the 3 games as one product would be a simple , cost free way to generate new income for the developers , grow the community , and bring new people into the world of flight sims.

Edited by guiltyspark

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Curious what part makes things more accessible. Is it the single "product" which IMHO could be sorted out by offering a bundle package of the three Eastern Front releases or are you really looking at the price?

its really both. Combining it into a single product is easier to market. And setting the price to a simple $50-$60 with tons of content behind it is an easy sell.

 

Its not very easy to sell somebody on a game with like 8 playable planes for 30 bucks.

 

Its very easy to sell somebody on a game with 30 planes for 60 bucks with a bunch of  different maps and a bunch of campaigns

Edited by guiltyspark

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm sure the developers have a better idea of how to maximise the return on their investment than we do. For a start, they have data on sales figures. We don't.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm sure the developers have a better idea of how to maximise the return on their investment than we do. For a start, they have data on sales figures. We don't.

as of right now there are 89 people playing BOS on steam.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Which tells you nothing...moving along...

the steam reviews tell another story. That the amount of content you get for these "packs" are severely overpriced.

 

Perhaps one day packaging all this content together would make sense and the IL2 online community would grow and flourish

Edited by guiltyspark

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Its a good way to piss a lot of people off who just paid full price for the three previous theaters. My vote is no. 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

its really both. Combining it into a single product is easier to market. And setting the price to a simple $50-$60 with tons of content behind it is an easy sell.

 

Its not very easy to sell somebody on a game with like 8 playable planes for 30 bucks.

 

Its very easy to sell somebody on a game with 30 planes for 60 bucks with a bunch of  different maps and a bunch of campaigns

 

Market? I'm not sure about that but I do get the idea of bundling. It makes it easier for a new person to find a way to group the kinds of content they want without having to think too hard about it. If by marketing you mean that ... yep. I can get that. I think its more of a bundle sort of thing. It can be called whatever it wants to be but ultimately its a themed package.

 

I think the price has to be higher though. We want these guys to stay in business. $80 for the premium pack of each regular price. Yeah that's going to hurt a bunch at $240 (plus tax and all that). Standard editions on sale for $25/ea bundled or $75 for the pack. I can see that. Three maps, three campaign/careers, and 24 planes. Not bad. You can already do that during sales for two products... in time Kuban will be added to the list.

 

as of right now there are 89 people playing BOS on steam.

 

Not a great measure as IL-2 is only loosely tied to Steam. I've played hundreds of hours of single and multiplayer and none of them show on Steam. I don't know what the ratio of Steam to IL-2 store owners is but seeing as its not the primary store... probably a fair bit lower.

 

the steam reviews tell another story. That the amount of content you get for these "packs" are severely overpriced.

 

Perhaps one day packaging all this content together would make sense and the IL2 online community would grow and flourish

 

Everyone has to set their price. That's fair. So do the content producers... they have a good idea of how much it costs to make this sort of thing happen. It's not a AAA title with a big budget and a 200 person studio behind it but it is expensive to make these sorts of titles. If we want them to survive and keep making stuff, we're going to have to pay up some cash. Some of us are pretty ok with the pricing (especially during sale periods) and I've watched the community grow and grow. It's small and will always be small.

 

I think the best thing to try to explain to the more casual audience is just how much you get out of a smaller number of aircraft. There's a lot of variety within the aircraft and you spend more time flying a few key types than flying dozens and dozens that you'll play just a handful of times. Then maybe the value proposition would go up.

Edited by ShamrockOneFive

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

its extremely expensive to make complex simulators. This isnt the early 2000s or even the 90s. launching these packs and titles at the prices they ask is very reasonable.

 

But the rules of economics still apply. BOS came out in 2014 and it costs 75 dollars on steam right now for all the content. For 10 aircraft and one map it simply isnt feasible for the average gamer to pay that much money for that little content. I still have not purchased BOM because I simply cant afford it. I will likely buy battle of kuban though.

 

Again in the case of battle of stalingrad this content is 3 years old. By 2019 when battle of kuban is a year old. The developers should think about making an eastern front game with all the content compiled and polished and drop it on steam for $60 bucks. 

 

This will inject quite a bit of money into their coffers , and allow future funding of new content in the western front and PTO eventually

Edited by guiltyspark

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A similar (but different) thing happened with RoF further into its life cycle so this sort of bundle is not beyond the realms of possibilities

 

Cheers Dakpilot

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A similar (but different) thing happened with RoF further into its life cycle so this sort of bundle is not beyond the realms of possibilities

 

Cheers Dakpilot

Sure, but its still to early to consider it. All of the key years of the eastern front have not been covered yet, nor all of the key battles. So bundling the three packs and dub them "eastern front" signs away any future development in my eyes for that front, as to say "OK were done, have at it"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes definitely something for much further in the future,

 

Cheers Dakpilot

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

its extremely expensive to make complex simulators. This isnt the early 2000s or even the 90s. launching these packs and titles at the prices they ask is very reasonable.

 

But the rules of economics still apply. BOS came out in 2014 and it costs 75 dollars on steam right now for all the content. For 10 aircraft and one map it simply isnt feasible for the average gamer to pay that much money for that little content. I still have not purchased BOM because I simply cant afford it. I will likely buy battle of kuban though.

 

Again in the case of battle of stalingrad this content is 3 years old. By 2019 when battle of kuban is a year old. The developers should think about making an eastern front game with all the content compiled and polished and drop it on steam for $60 bucks. 

 

This will inject quite a bit of money into their coffers , and allow future funding of new content in the western front and PTO eventually

 

Guiltyspark,

 

I'd suggest that if you are serious about getting BOS or BOM, you should keep an eye on this forum as most of the games were on sale recently at 50% off, so if you look out for the sales here rather than on Steam, you might get a bargain!

 

Regards

Edited by Haza

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For the time being I would think that the only possibility for the East Front continuing are the maps still in progress from the community, Murmansk and Odessa.

 

Not likely 1C or 777 will finish those WIP maps in any way, the newly announced theatre map I think will be a major undertaking as the population density will be huge, so that effort has to come from those working on them, however, if they do get released down the line be it as a free inclusion or paid add on then if all works out with the third party model builder we could see those and the current maps gaining further content.  

 

Jason mentioned the community has a big list of favourite aircraft in the Q&A, the Hurricane was mentioned as up there, so for the moment we have a intended plan from Jason and the team but as always events along the way can change, watch this space as they say.

 

Not sure what it is about the price of the current series that people complain about, you get them cheap all the way through if you start as a pre-order customer and sales always have been a big part of this companies business model, I mean most console titles start at around £50 here in the UK and folks seem to buy them with reckless abandon, here you get simulation few others can or will  build to the same fidelity. 

 

That said, I guess bundling a few or all of the titles would be a further option as far as bringing forward the undecided or those who are really cash strapped.

 

 

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. :biggrin:

Edited by Missionbug

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Listen its basic economics. The game cost a specific amount of money to make. They need to make more than that to cover the cost and have profit to pay the developers and fund new content and projects.

 

After a certain point. These economics break down as the game ages. The developers have been paid their wages , and new content has already been created. This is why you can buy videogames cheaper than what they launched as. Because their value has shrunk , therefor selling an old game at full price is a bad economic decision because it prevents sales. So developers and publishers lower the price BELOW their suggested retail price to get more sales.... Or they keep the price high and  sales of the product slow and eventually stagnate. Why set up your pricing that will kill a product when you can be creative and keep selling said product?

 

Repackaging the 3 games as one product would be a simple , cost free way to generate new income for the developers , grow the community , and bring new people into the world of flight sims.

 

The bottleneck of bringing people in flight sims is not the price of the game, it is the price of the Hotas and track IR.

 

A slight discoutn for a combined buy  is feasible and very likely in pakages in future, but I would not expect a 66% price reduction. I would bet more in a  3 games for 99 US$ scenario. or even less agressive than that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not many floks play flight sims so i don't think offering everything for low price will help, what will help is popular planeset, in this case BoBP (p51d, p47d, p38, 109k4,190d9, tempest...etc.).

Many will rush into BoX!

Flying circus is also good decision, some of my friends looking forward to that same as me.

Tank crew may also attract some players to try themself in flight sims too.

Future seems bright, even PTO seems more posibble than before, at least regarding quality that will come with it!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

its extremely expensive to make complex simulators. This isnt the early 2000s or even the 90s. launching these packs and titles at the prices they ask is very reasonable.

 

But the rules of economics still apply. BOS came out in 2014 and it costs 75 dollars on steam right now for all the content. For 10 aircraft and one map it simply isnt feasible for the average gamer to pay that much money for that little content. I still have not purchased BOM because I simply cant afford it. I will likely buy battle of kuban though.

 

Again in the case of battle of stalingrad this content is 3 years old. By 2019 when battle of kuban is a year old. The developers should think about making an eastern front game with all the content compiled and polished and drop it on steam for $60 bucks. 

 

This will inject quite a bit of money into their coffers , and allow future funding of new content in the western front and PTO eventually

 

BoS did get a lot of upgrades though, 64bit,directX11,VR and a lot of optimisations. It is not the same game that you bought in 2014. And there is also two more scenarios available for all owners if you play online. 

If the game would still offer/be the same as in 2014, I would totally agree that it should be cheaper by now, but it simply isn´t.

 

And they do sales pretty often where you can get a package for 25$!

BoS and BoM together for 50$ is a great deal and gives you access to alot of quality content and the game itself gets constantly upgraded.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sales do bring in new players it gives you that little push to buy especially people like me very new to sims .

I had dabbled in WT when EC started but had grown frustrated with the lack of development.

I think one pack kept at low price will encourage people to try, But be warned once you're in you can never leave. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Pay cash to unlock everything in War Thunder and tell me how much did it cost. Then go buy 8 WW2 planes, a map and assets pack from DCS and tell me how much did it cost. The IL*2 products are far from overpriced. If you don't want to pay for it wait for one of the frequent sales. Maybe if you ask really nicely you can get it for free off of one of the many generous members frequently gifting copies to support the development team...

  • Upvote 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Pay cash to unlock everything in War Thunder and tell me how much did it cost. Then go buy 8 WW2 planes, a map and assets pack from DCS and tell me how much did it cost. The IL*2 products are far from overpriced. If you don't want to pay for it wait for one of the frequent sales. Maybe if you ask really nicely you can get it for free off of one of the many generous members frequently gifting copies to support the development team...

 

I think BoX even when it's not on sale, is very good value. One of the best VR experiences out there in my humble opinion, and I know many of you still look at VR as a gimmick / fad or whatever, but if it wasn't for the excellent job these guys did with VR  in BOX, then my interest would not be anywhere near as high, as it's currently at.

 

It's not just the content though that impresses me, This team seems to be able to not only meet timelines for the products they work on, but throw in a few surprises as well, and that really does seem to be a very rare thing in the games industry these days.

 

Now I know a lot of wishes of current supporters make for a diverse wishlist, but surely everyone must understand that this team is doing the very best that it can with the resources it has. I think they can be very proud of what they have already accomplished, and I for one very much look forward to trying out all the new aircraft in the upcoming dev cycle, not to mention the last few for this one.

 

As to the question of should the eastern front be bundled up ? Perhaps, but not for a while, Kuban hasn't even released yet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Pay cash to unlock everything in War Thunder and tell me how much did it cost. Then go buy 8 WW2 planes, a map and assets pack from DCS and tell me how much did it cost. The IL*2 products are far from overpriced.

 

-snip-

 

This.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think they could start selling Eastern Front packs for ~100 $ once Operation Bodenplatte is released. That would be standard edition if BoS, BoM and BoK maps, campaigns and planes etc. Then for 150 $ a premium pack additionally containing all eastern front collector planes could be sold.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think they could start selling Eastern Front packs for ~100 $ once Operation Bodenplatte is released. That would be standard edition if BoS, BoM and BoK maps, campaigns and planes etc. Then for 150 $ a premium pack additionally containing all eastern front collector planes could be sold.

why would they sell it for over 100 dollars?

 

why not 60? Again you are forgetting the entire purpose of selling this pack in the first place. Which would be to generate as many sales as possible and bring people into the community and likely in turn helping fund the new projects with pre-orders. A more complete il2 experience for the cost of a normal game would be the perfect marketable way to do this. As VR gets more popular , simulators are going to get more popular too and you need to stay competitive. But when simulators these days are costing more money than multiple games its just not interesting to the average person. For example. I have wanted to buy the mig21 DCS module for a long time but i just cant justify the price for one plane (i dont make much money) So i wait for sales.

 

Imagine a brand new il2 product with over 30 planes , 3 theaters, and new multiplayer functionality for the cost of a brand new game. It would be wildly popular (in comparison to now of course)

 

You price a game at 100 dollars and it will likely sell less than 3 packs costing 40 bucks a pop.

Edited by guiltyspark

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I really wish that people would stop thinking of all the editions as separate games, to my mind they are much better thought of a aircraft sets with a specific map attached to them for single player use. All maps are available for multiplayer use as long as the mission designer owns them.

 

Given that model why would anyone expect a whole plane set at a permanently reduced price at this stage in the product's lifecycle when all aircraft are represented to some degree or another on the various popular MP servers?

 

I realise that as Jason said, most of the players are SP oriented, but still, with the game engine being constantly updated and maintained it is still well worth the money for the various installments/plane sets.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Its far too early for this. This franchise is barely 3 years old. The announcement of BoBP has already brought in new customers. There are sales every year 2 or 3. The devs are doing a good job. They are growing the franchise with every step they take. To give everything away at a rediculous low price so early is dumb. New players introduced by BoBP will buy the other 3 theatres because the experience will warant it. No need to give it away.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...