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PatrickAWlson

New Stick/Throttle - Bizarre Pricing

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After eight years with CH throttle and stick I am looking to upgrade.  Especially need the throttle, but a new stick would be nice too.

 

I looked into Thrustmaster Warthog.  I am seeing prices from $300 to $600.  What's up with the price range?

 

Saw Saitek for a bit less.  Many, many years ago I tried Saitek and it broke pretty quickly.  Any opinions on the newest ones?

 

The VKB stuff looks nice, but out of my price range.  

 

CH stuff looks the same as it did a decade ago.  Why bother.

 

Opinions?  Especially with regard to IL2.  I don't play other flight sims.  I did look through the section but didn't find what U was looking for.

 

 

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Nothing has really changed, Saitek/Logitech/Thrustmaster charge what they've always charged. The only difference is there are now a few garage operations too such as VKB, crosswind and virpil.

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I bought mine at Dell for like 330.00 US....about four months ago....... but since it's getting close to Christmas the prices are going up, but Dell probably still has the lowest price of anyone.  You may want to wait until after Christmas, or put an alert on the websites you have looked at and see if they lower the price just before or just after Christmas or Black Friday/Cyber Monday after Thanksgiving.

 

Warthog from Dell

 

If you can figure out how to use IL2 mission editor you can use TARGET software, which I highly recommend for getting the most out of the system. 

 

Cheers

 

Hoss

Edited by 1./JG54_Hoss

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So 8 years later, nothing new.  CH is tough but simple.  Saitek and Logitech are still fragile.  I love the look of the small shop sticks but damn ... $400 for a joystick.  

 

Thanks for the purchase tip Hoss.  Probably going to wait until after Xmas and look again.  Might find a good deal on a TM.

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VKB and VirPil  all metal, bearings gimbals are superior solution than plastic gimbal in Warthog, allowing control better the aim. :)

 

Anyway getting a Warthog is "half way" - latter you could buy only VKB or Virpil base and use Warthog grip in this bases.

 

CH's is the same models sold in ~2000, face what the concurrence offer, their electronics (8 bits, 256 values) is obsolete. Today standards is at lest 10 bits - 4x times more on resolution. On positive side they are the most durable joysticks manufactured.

 

You find the best prices for Warthog in Amazon, but even there are 3rd party sellers asking more high prices, same happens with Logitech G (ex Saitek X-5x's).

Edited by Sokol1

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I read somewhere that CH products had an updated line supposedly in development. Now I cannot remember where I read it and seems more to be rumour/hearsay, anyone have more real info on that?

 

Cheers Dakpilot

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I’d did have a warthog up but ended up selling it. I bought it for DCS A10 but since I migrated to IL2 BOS I’ve been using the thrustmaster t1600 throttle and stick and I’m more than happy with it

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In your price range I think a good option would be to pair the soon to be released VirPil MongoosT-50 Throttle with a T.16000M joystick (preferably the new model, with orange).

 

Assuming that the new VirPil throttle will not have any issues (it isn't for sale yet, so no reports about it).

Edited by Seb71

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I really like my Virpil setup. The Warthog served me well for a number of years also, but the Virpil was a nice step up with the all metal gimbal along with smoothness and adjustability.

As mentioned Virpil will be coming out with a throttle soon as well.

 

The Virpil setup is not designed to be a desk top stick, but center mounted to desk. Their mount along with extensions are great.

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VKB & co may seem expensive, but if you buy the metal gimbal stuff, you shouldn't need to buy a new one ever again.

The potentiometers are contactless, so they should never wear off. Only things that might brake with time are button switches, but that shouldn't be too hard to replace, I'd think.

 

I wonder how these guys can keep going when they can't rely on programmed obsolescence and when they have to compete with their own devices on the second-hand market.

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VKB & co may seem expensive, but if you buy the metal gimbal stuff, you shouldn't need to buy a new one ever again.

The potentiometers are contactless, so they should never wear off. Only things that might brake with time are button switches, but that shouldn't be too hard to replace, I'd think.

 

I wonder how these guys can keep going when they can't rely on programmed obsolescence and when they have to compete with their own devices on the second-hand market.

By offering exchangeable grips, extensions, cam profiles, mounts and othr gadgets. Thinking about getting a T-50 Mongoos next myself (sunk 90 quit with the license produced Gladiator copy). Atm im running a modified Extreme 3d Pro(blematic) with a Satiek X52 throttle.

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By offering exchangeable grips, extensions, cam profiles, mounts and othr gadgets. Thinking about getting a T-50 Mongoos next myself (sunk 90 quit with the license produced Gladiator copy). Atm im running a modified Extreme 3d Pro(blematic) with a Satiek X52 throttle.

 

And then there are the hardware junkies like myself that can not get too many good stick setups lol.

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I am still using a CH fighterstick, must be well over a decade now and works perfectly still. If I was buying today I wouldn't buy a Warthog, I would save a bit longer and get a Virpil T-50

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Dear Pat,

 

I have them all and the new Virpil Mongoose is the best

 

What makes the Virpil better then the VKB? What is your setup, center mounted with extension or just desktop?

 

I want to buy the VKB with extension and the new Grip when its available in europe but im allways interested in opinion of other who have both.

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What makes the Virpil better then the VKB? What is your setup, center mounted with extension or just desktop?

 

I want to buy the VKB with extension and the new Grip when its available in europe but im allways interested in opinion of other who have both.

 

Hi Ishtaru,

 

The problem that I have with the VKB gunfighter Pro in the 20cm extension. I have an Obutto setup with a center mount and with the strongest spring sets it is still to floppy for  me. If they made the extension 10 - 12 cm it would be a different and better stick.

 

The Virpil out of the box with a 50mm extension in the center mount has a wonderful feel and accuracy to it .

 

Regards

 

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Hi Ishtaru,

 

The problem that I have with the VKB gunfighter Pro in the 20cm extension. I have an Obutto setup with a center mount and with the strongest spring sets it is still to floppy for  me. If they made the extension 10 - 12 cm it would be a different and better stick.

 

The Virpil out of the box with a 50mm extension in the center mount has a wonderful feel and accuracy to it .

 

Regards

 

 

Thank you for responding. I have a selfmade centermount setup with a 10cm Warthog and i would like to have a VKB as an replacement but if the center is to sloppy i dont think i would like it. What i like is the new Grip with two ministick axies and a thumb button replacable with a 4 way hat + button and the option to use the stick for helicopter flight where the stick stays where you leave it. I dont know what to do. I dont want to purchase one to test it and have to send it back if i dont like it and have to wait even longer for a new stick. Anyway, thank you. :)

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My Schreinerschmid was for sale quite a while. Noone was interested. Even thou it was a heavily modified (300,- in mods) 800,- € stick.
Well its sold now. For very little money to a friend. At least i know it has a good home:)

 

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/4379534/sold-schreiner-schmidt-kg20-heavily-modified-price-adjusted-again-gimb#Post4379534

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I would recommend you go for the Virpil Joysticks. They are amazingly accurate, have an amazing desk mount available to accompany your order for a low price, and you can order extensions with them. Apart from the very good quality of the gimbal, they have excellent support in case anything is not working as supposedly so. For example, I had a faulty thumb button - they went through troubleshooting the same day with me, thoroughly, via Facebook, and then upon noticing there is nothing I could do, they offered a replacement immediately!

 

So, if you buy one of these, you can be sure to

 

a) get very good quality joystick with high quality buttons

b) good mount, accurate gimbal with one of the highest resolutions on the market

c) support by Cypher, who reponds thoroughly and competendly the same day via FB (this is so rare nowadays!)

d) you don't have to wait for replacements like you'd have to with the only real contender (which is producing in China, no name calling though, you know which one)

e) their base is compatible with other sticks as well

 

If you reside in Europe, the delivery is especially fast. Look for their products on Amazon.co.uk, that way you don't have to hang around in any custom offices (as European, that is a very reasonable point to be honest).

 

TL;DR

Get Virpil's T-50 joystick. Best. Ever.

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Sadly Virpil never restocked their initial contingent on amazon.

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I found that if you double up on the VKB Gunfighter Pro springs, the stick with 20cm extension returns to center every time.  I also have the Obutto setup with center mount.  My spring setup is as follows;

 

Y axis #40 + #30 springs

X axis #40 +# 20 springs

Hi Ishtaru,

 

The problem that I have with the VKB gunfighter Pro in the 20cm extension. I have an Obutto setup with a center mount and with the strongest spring sets it is still to floppy for  me. If they made the extension 10 - 12 cm it would be a different and better stick.

 

The Virpil out of the box with a 50mm extension in the center mount has a wonderful feel and accuracy to it .

 

Regards

 

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Virpil costs over $1300 for stick and throttle.  I'm sure it's a great kit but that is unfortunately out of reach.  

 

So ... let's say $400 for stick and throttle. I can get Warthog stick and throttle for $350 from Dell or NewEgg.  Is there anything better than a warthog in that range? 

 

VKB Gunfighter WWII Vintage Edition stick can be had for $300 + $40 shipping.  Right at the edge of price range but maybe possible, especially if I can get a throttle replaced for a reasonable price.

Lower end VKB Gladiator is $90 on Amazon.  Is the Gladiator any good?  Better than TM Warthog?

 

My current set is an eight year old CH CombatStick, a used 8+ year old CH Pro Throttle, and 8 year old CH pedals.  In order: the throttle that MUST be replaced.  I new stick is very nice to have.  The pedals are fine.  

 

I also do not have a dedicated flight sim cave,  Just a desk that with a monitor, keyboard. mouse, stick and throttle.  The Virpil and some of the VKB look like they have to be screwed into something.

 

Last but not least ... does a combination of VKB stick, Warthog throttle, and CH pedals even work together?  I imagine that they should just fine since there is no real interaction between them.  

 

Appreciate all of the feedback.  It is certainly helping me and hopefully will help others too.

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So ... let's say $400 for stick and throttle. I can get Warthog stick and throttle for $350 from Dell or NewEgg.  Is there anything better than a warthog in that range? 

 

 
From traditional brands, no - the options is the obsolete CH combo or Saitek's, both inferior.
 
But for me even VKB Gladiator PRO ~$250 +
~$150/200 (?) is better than Warthog.
 
But buying Warthog HOTAS now later you can "upgrade" the stick with VKB, VirPil or Baur base.

 

Lower end VKB Gladiator is $90 on Amazon.  Is the Gladiator any good?  Better than TM Warthog?

 

Depends for what, some say that for "place the gunsight piper of WWII planes over the bandit" the Gladiator Mk.II "vanila" is better tool.

 

VKB Gunfighter WWII Vintage Edition stick can be had for $300 + $40 shipping.  Right at the edge of price range but maybe possible, especially if I can get a throttle replaced for a reasonable price.

 

 

Tm TWCS throttle is a affordable "stopgap" until VKB/Virpil release their throttles, but I bet that just replace the potentiometer (~$10) of you CH PRO Throttle will make then last another 8 years  - they looks "vintage" and now use obsolete electronics, but are made to last - unless the main motive for replace is that you want control something that he don't allow properly.

Edited by Sokol1

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Now that I am playing IL2 there are just more things to control, so a throttle with a few more controls would be nice.  My engine management is horrible and I land dead stick more often than under power.  Trying to even remember the engine control key strokes is more than I can manage at the moment.

 

I would like to buy the TM Throttle separately, but - back to the title of the thread - bizarre pricing.  Most of the people selling the throttle want more than Dell's price for throttle and stick combined.  I really don't get it.  Are those people actually getting $400 or more for a TM throttle?  People can't be that stupid.

 

I really do like the VKB Vintage Gunfighter stick.  And at $300 with the base it is less than half of a Virpil.  

 

I am also facing a bit of (not unreasonable) spousal obstruction :).  My first purchase is a VR head set, so the stick and throttle are on top of that.

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Thanks for the redirect to GVL224. I sent him a PM.  Looks like nice kit and affordable too.  He gets great feedback.  If he's available and the price  is in range that seems like a good way to go.

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I am also facing a bit of (not unreasonable) spousal obstruction :).  My first purchase is a VR head set, so the stick and throttle are on top of that.

 

:good: 

 

Some good first choices there.

Warthog throttle is nice to have, however as you have seen hard to find any real deals on them by themselves- most often the deals are in the stick and throttle combination. 

 

The Warthog stick is really not that bad, as long as you don't get one with a rough gimbal which can happen. I ran my original Hog gimbal  from 2008 until just a few months ago, it served me well. But, my original gimbal was very smooth and remained so. I had a button go bad on the original grip, so I purchased another Warthog stick from a guy selling them on Ebay ( new ). That gimbal was horrible , very gritty feeling and lot of sticktion. I just moved the grip from it to my original base.

 

But my Virpil setup is very sweet.

 

The Gunfighter with the Warthog throttle would not be bad either. 

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I am going to pull the trigger on the GVL throttle.  They look perfect for my purpose and they get good reviews.  Price is in range too.

 

That leaves stick options wide open.  Going to be VKB - either the $100 Gladiator or the $300 Gunfighter if I can swing it.

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My way of justifying the cost - Its probably a 10-15 year investment, unless you get something that breaks. Better to buy just 1 good one than 3 your not happy with or don't last?

 

I've pre-orderd a VKB stick. I'm hoping to get 15+ out of it like my MSFFB2

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Pat

I got mk1 Gladiator, and VKB pedals, great build quality and smooth operation, I am waiting for VKB throttle unit to be announced, but the GVL unit does look interesting!

Salute

Edited by Spyboy

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I was lucky and bough in perfect condition TMW Throttle separately for 141.39 USD (in conversion from PLN). I never used it (just run test) because lack of proper mount. It gonna change now I finally decide to throw my trusty MSFF2 for VPC MongoosT-50CM Flightstick plus extensions set and 2x desk mount one with mounting plate for TM W Throttle. Christmas X)

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Dell is offering the Warthog for $349.99, just 10 bucks more than I paid for it...............  price might drop even more the day after Christmas...........

 

http://pilot.search.dell.com/Thrustmaster%20Warthog

 

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to the IL2 community............. or which ever Holiday you happen to celebrate in your corner of the universe!

 

Cheers

 

Hoss

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I’d did have a warthog up but ended up selling it. I bought it for DCS A10 but since I migrated to IL2 BOS I’ve been using the thrustmaster t1600 throttle and stick and I’m more than happy with it

 

Yes. the Thrustmaster HOTAS is a good medium priced system. Thrustmaster has pedals too, but I don't have a set.

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