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Jason_Williams

My comments on the delay of PTO development.

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Thing is i will probably won't follow the development of these new projects and i will come back in 2 years but when that time will come i won't be disapointed again as i am pretty sure PTO will be cancelled or delayed again...

 

 

 

 

 

 

Eeyore_3.jpg

 

 

Lighten up.

Research has to be done -  there's a lot of work ahead.

This is the right move.

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Sad to see the Pacific get delayed but I'm definitely glad to hear the will to get it done is very strong!  I also think the plan going forward sounds great.  Love to see some of the RoF planes coming in.  There's just something about WWI planes that makes them my favorite planes to fly, and RoF was really the first sim to give me the feeling of floating or gliding rather than just playing a game.  It felt more real, almost like you could feel when the wings started getting lift again, as if you were flying some lawnmower engine with a bunch of twigs and canvas to keep it in the air.

 

Anyway thank you, keep up the good work and looking forwards to all the releases, short term and long!

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As a huge fan of the IL2 series attention to detail  and as someone very much looking forward to the Pacific product, I can wait. 

 

I tell you one thing, the waiting got a whole lot easier once I read about Flying Circus. WW1 in glorious VR?, oh hell yes! 

 

I will gladly wait for a more detailed and polished Pacific as I enjoy the next few products coming down the line.

 

The flying circus is an instant pre-order for me, I can't wait!

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This delay could actually be a very good thing in the long term, even for those who were eagerly waiting for the Pacific.

 

One thing that worried me when it was first mentioned..... and something I've not seen addressed at any stage...... is what happened when Oleg took the original IL2 to the Pacific: The threat of legal action from Grumman over the use of their trademarked aircraft names (IIRC Oleg ended up being forced to drop at least one aircraft from the intended roster because of this threatened litigation, even though he had the weight of Ubisoft behind him at the time), which obviously Jason and the devs don't.

 

If this delay gives Jason an opportunity to head off any such issues, it can only be in everyone's best interests, even if it has nothing to do with the reasons for the delay itself.

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Jason, I think you made the right call. It must have been extremely difficult. However, the superb VR support and continuing to deliver on promised features will keep me a loyal fan and supporter for years.

 

It also helps that Rise of Flight is my favorite sim of all time and I absolutely can't wait to jump into my beloved Camel in VR

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Still the best post in this thread 

 

I don't give an ef what the next scenario will be. If it has props and wings I'm in. Not gonna end up like old spinster waiting for prince charming when there's so much happening now.

 

At least we know we'll get to the pacific eventually and now we know its name;

 

IL2 Sturmovik; Battle of Moby Dick :salute:

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I am sad that the Pacific has been pushed back.  On the other hand, the development cycle for this next set of game is much faster than BoMi (I recall it was supposed to be a two year project) so in the end we are getting more, in a shorter period of time.

 

I certainly agree that this is probably the better direction.  I feels like you are appealing to three groups, the RoF fans, Tanks fans (which I am one, part of the reason I got BoS was the tanks) and the Western Front fans.  I cant help but think that you will be stealing a march on Eagle Dynamics if you get Bodenplatte out the door in 12 months.

 

Bravo!

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This delay could actually be a very good thing in the long term, even for those who were eagerly waiting for the Pacific.

 

One thing that worried me when it was first mentioned..... and something I've not seen addressed at any stage...... is what happened when Oleg took the original IL2 to the Pacific: The threat of legal action from Grumman over the use of their trademarked aircraft names (IIRC Oleg ended up being forced to drop at least one aircraft from the intended roster because of this threatened litigation, even though he had the weight of Ubisoft behind him at the time), which obviously Jason and the devs don't.

 

If this delay gives Jason an opportunity to head off any such issues, it can only be in everyone's best interests, even if it has nothing to do with the reasons for the delay itself.

 

This is issue is old, dead, and buried, and furthermore, Jason has asked that people stop rehashing it.

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It's just another case of cognitive dissonance. No rational argument is going to persuade somebody driven by their emotions.

 

So you are here purely for intellectual reasons? This is my hobby , nothing else . And right now it seems it is not anymore. Some form of disappointment should be expected. Because this is a strategy to go WT route. 

And that is just about the opposite way for some here

Edited by 216th_LuseKofte

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For me, this isn't a big deal.  Well, it IS a big deal, but I'm not emotionally distraught over the decision to move to Europe, nor is the 44/45 timeline.  I'm genuinely excited to hear it, and a bit shocked at the announcement.  I DO want to see what the team has in store for us down the road for BOTH theaters.  And I have to admit, that the Pacific seemed a million years into the future anyway, for the regularity for which I check these forums.  Seems to me this is win/win.  Pacific fans (myself included) will get to see that part of the overall conflict, and in the meantime, we'll amuse ourselves over Kuban and eventually parts of Western Europe.  Count me in.  The rise of flight stuff I have to admit hasn't really grabbed me (well, it's competing with this title on my hdd) as much, but the thought of those planes in this engine is definately exciting (VR woot woot!).  Should be another action packed dramatic year of development ahead after Kuban's release.  There's a lot of planes to talk about in that development list.

 

Actually, the task sounds pretty damned big.  I'm sure I will continue to watch and cough up my 2 cents from time to time.  Thanks for the update.

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So you are here purely for intellectual reasons? This is my hobby , nothing else . And right now it seems it is not anymore. Some form of disappointment should be expected. Because this is a strategy to go WT route. 

And that is just about the opposite way for some here

While I can fully appreciated some that people will be disappointed, I think it has been explained why the PTO has been held over. There are a fair number of people who weren't overly interested in the pacific (myself include) I would have still purchased it and flown the aircraft like I'm sure many other would have too.

 

It's slightly disconcerting that some folk seem to be taking  today's announcement so personally. The dev team is probably one of the most open and engaging teams out there and I think they really have done wonders with the resources and the team they have.

 

I would like to think that  anger won't cloud judgement or open mindedness. Hopefully it won't be too long before we have a chance to fly in the Pacific.

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Is it? 

 

Sorry Luke. I wasn't aware of that.

 

No problem, but yes, it has been discussed here. 

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It's slightly disconcerting that some folk seem to be taking today's announcement so personally. The dev team is probably one of the most open and engaging teams out there and I think they really have done wonders with the resources and the team they have.

 

I would like to think that anger won't cloud judgement or open mindedness. Hopefully it won't be too long before we have a chance to fly in the Pacific.

This. There is no conspiracy. The Pacific isn't cancelled. They need more time to work on it and these next products will not only give them more time to develop Pacific tech, it gives us plenty of toys in the meantime. I'm sure it will make a big boost of income for funding as well.

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If carrier and fleet operations were too complex, I wonder why something like New Guinea was not chosen.

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I want it all anyway. I'll just finish buying everything that I don't have and be patient. And when new stuff comes, I'll buy it when it's available. If you guys keep making the stuff, I'll keep buying it.

 

I picked up the MC.202 Series VIII this morning, in anticipation of getting Moscow. I already had the P-40E-1, so I can buy the Standard version now with that plane acquired. It's a great plane by the way. If you don't have it, get it.

 

And then as soon as my wife gets over the shock of my new i7 7700K, GTX 1080 G1 rig with Oculus CV1, I'll finish the rest of the IL-2 collection and then sit and wait contentedly until the Pacific comes.

 

Generally speaking about how things are in life, you can have things fast or you can have things right. But you usually can't have both. I'm happy to wait so that the carrier ops in VR are just the way they should be when we get the Pacific.

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If carrier and fleet operations were too complex, I wonder why something like New Guinea was not chosen.

 

JAPANESE PLANES REQUIRE A LOT OF RESEARCH AND LACK CLEAR PICTURES AND DIAGRAMS OF COCKPIT LAYOUTS AND INSTRUMENTATION REQUIRED TO BUILD TO OUR LEVEL OF ACCURACY AND WE NEED TO DO THOUSANDS OF PAGES OF TRANSLATIONS IN A DIFFICULT ASIAN LANGUAGE.  It's not just about ships. Please read what I have written in the main post guys. What you get with Japanese planes in 1946 or other games is mostly from Western sources and they are lacking. Some cockpits in other games have holes in the instrument panels where missing instruments are in museum displays. No one bothered to figure out what dial or gauge is missing. We don't work like that. I've done my home work and I need about 18 months to sort out what we can build for Japanese planes and understand their systems. I may have to do a fundraiser just to be able to afford translations. 

 

:angry:  :angry:  :angry:  :angry:

 

Jason

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If carrier and fleet operations were too complex, I wonder why something like New Guinea was not chosen.

Probably because a later war western Europe scenario with all of the "classic" warbirds is a guaranteed win. It's something a lot of players have been clamoring for since the beginning and will draw in new players. I'm willing to bet we see a lot more DCS WW2 and WT players migrate to IL*2: Great Battles when early access for BoBo opens up.

 

This is probably what they need to bring Jason's Pacific vision to life. Time and money.

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Large ship to ship combat and physics technology, sea and wave technology, carriers landings with pitching deck, submarine variables, fleet escorts etc. I'm sure the task to model even some for those things is huge.When you add aircraft modelling  on top of that its a massive project. As already stated, they wish to do the Pacific Justice. Hopefully BOB will help the developers to realise the best possible PTO we have ever seen.

 

I'm very much looking forward to seeing it.

 

Dear Jason

Custard put it nicely.

I was one of those who had looked forward to PTO and is very disappointed.

Due to my insight into IT-projects, I was aware that the PTO is a high risk project with a high complexity. 

A lot of new technology (physics) will have to be developed. It is not only making new aircraft's.

I had hoped that your guys where ready, but better to hold and prepare with something intermediate.  

From the response from the US fans, I have no doubt that you have made a golden choice.

The P-51D is to the US, what the Spitfire is to the English and the Yak-1 is to the Russians.

And some of the planes can be reused for the PTO (P-40, P-38, P-47, A-20, B-25).

 

The large update on the flight-model and the release of the Kuban map as well as some fast patching on some of bugs goes a long way toward building trust in you and your team.

So I have decided to pledge the money and buy the pre-releases (as a Christmas presence to myself).

:friends:  

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You guys just keep doing what you've been doing, I'll keep buying, we'll all wind up happy in the long term.

 

I have been a customer since 2011 with RoF, and since then I have bought nearly everything, and tremendously enjoyed all of it.

 

PTO will happen when it happens, in the meantime we have amazing stuff on the very near horizon. Huzzah!

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Ah nuts! Somebody skin me the Macchi to a Ki-61 and the Ju-88 to a Lorna. I wanna shoot down some meatballs!

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Guest deleted@30725

JAPANESE PLANES REQUIRE A LOT OF RESEARCH AND LACK CLEAR PICTURES AND DIAGRAMS OF COCKPIT LAYOUTS AND INSTRUMENTATION REQUIRED TO BUILD TO OUR LEVEL OF ACCURACY AND WE NEED TO DO THOUSANDS OF PAGES OF TRANSLATIONS IN A DIFFICULT ASIAN LANGUAGE.  It's not just about ships. Please read what I have written in the main post guys. What you get with Japanese planes in 1946 or other games is mostly from Western sources and they are lacking. Some cockpits in other games have holes in the instrument panels where missing instruments are in museum displays. No one bothered to figure out what dial or gauge is missing. We don't work like that. I've done my home work and I need about 18 months to sort out what we can build for Japanese planes and understand their systems. I may have to do a fundraiser just to be able to afford translations. 

 

:angry:  :angry:  :angry:  :angry:

 

Jason

 

Your dedication and work ethic towards this project is inspiring. I really hope the next works bring the players and cash funding you and the team is hoping for.

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Initially when I read today's eagerly awaited  announcement it felt like a kick in the teeth....I had purchased BOK mainly in hopes of a PTO Battle of Midway,I felt disappointed and somewhat deceived. After reading Jason's statement I do in fact understand the magnitude of a Quality PTO in IL*2 development will entail ,Regardless I do not have a bottomless budget and can not eagerly jump on board today's pre-orders.

 

I wish 777 Studios all the best in The future. 

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thats cool. I fully expected you guys to not do the PTO until later. It makes sense from a business perspective (after all, you aren't just doing this for the love which is fair enough). 

 

Besides, we really need a western european campaign. 

 

The PTO will come in good time. 

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Understood, and thanks for being so transparent.  I'll support by pre-purchasing the new path, but...I'm 65 yrs old.  PLEASE hurry!  ;)

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Actually thought PTO Midway was unsuitable as much as I want to see PTO come down the turnpike, but excellent news all around..Very logical progression in my view...late war, with more slant towards the West...

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The language problem is entirely understandable. 

 

Armed with a dictionary and very basic knowledge, most people can slowly decipher any text in several European languages. 

 

With Japanese, normal day-to-day texts can be very difficult, even after extensively studying the language. Technical documents, of course, are far more difficult than that. 

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Initially when I read today's eagerly awaited  announcement it felt like a kick in the teeth....I had purchased BOK mainly in hopes of a PTO Battle of Midway,I felt disappointed and somewhat deceived. After reading Jason's statement I do in fact understand the magnitude of a Quality PTO in IL*2 development will entail ,Regardless I do not have a bottomless budget and can not eagerly jump on board today's pre-orders.

 

I wish 777 Studios all the best in The future. 

If I understood Jason correctly, he said PTO will be a side project worked on pretty much beside the current projects. If I was a PTO fan, I`d be monitoring future DDs for anything mentioning work on PTO, so I could hold 1CGS to their word.

From historical pov it`s quite interesting that Yanks did such a sloppy job of archiving the IJN aircraft data for future generations.

 

Generally speaking about how things are in life, you can have things fast or you can have things right. But you usually can't have both. I'm happy to wait so that the carrier ops in VR are just the way they should be when we get the Pacific.

Maybe someone needs to mention for the 100th time that for the simming comunity making a generic Guinea map and throwing in some low detail ships with questionable torpedo mechanics and a bunch of fighters/bombers with 50% unknown FMs is not what the community would accept. Who says "heck, do it anyway" in such circumstances?

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Understood, and thanks for being so transparent.  I'll support by pre-purchasing the new path, but...I'm 65 yrs old.  PLEASE hurry!  ;)

Uh, your just a kid, I pre-purchased and at 75 I can wait.  With the Kuban map, PWCG v3 I can think of 10 campaigns starting in 1943.  That will keep me going for the next year plus. ;)

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I don't know how to feel, no Wildcat, no Zero, no near future Hellcat or Corsair? :( But I'm going to get a Mustang a Thunderbolt and a Lightning. :)

I'm so torn.

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Seriously, would you rather they worked slowly on the PTO with a dwindling revenue stream and delivered nothing for the next eighteen months?

 

OR

 

Delivered an outstanding Bodenplatte, ROF II, and tanks, while they take the next twenty four months to develop the resources, tech and all the goodies we hope for while simultaneously expanding the player base and revenue stream?

 

PTO will happen. Stop the fretting and the needless drama. The path may not be straight but we’ve a pretty good guide in Jason. I’m absolutely fine with even some hardcore disappointment that it’s not happening soon. I was very excited to hear about Midway today only to be (pleasantly) surprised by the Bodenplatte announcement instead. I’m STILL excited about Midway but accept it will be a couple more years to bring it to the fore. The wrist slitting and “it will never happen now” crowd need to take a drink of warm milk or cool beer and just relax.

 

In BoX we trust.

Edited by II/JG17_HerrMurf
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