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Jason_Williams

Discussion of Bodenplatte, Flying Circus and Tank Crew Announcement...

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well than play ROF.. its a WW1 game with many planes....  

I would rather see some  B17 and B24 than  WW1 stuff... 

 

NO. Why do we have to cover the same ground fifty times a year?

 

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/32328-hoping-b-17-eventually/

you do realize people buying BoS, BoM and BoK is the only reason they were able to do these updates right? that's what paid for them

 Payed for DX11, VR aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaannnnnnnnnnddddddddddddd, Flying Circus!

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I see many ,many " i pre-ordered' this ,pre-ordered that...??..(end?hoo" cares?..)

 

The developers care. They care a lot because they need the incoming money to finance their business. Therefore we are telling them about our support. Got it?

 

Odd ... I work with Romanians from Cluj and Bucharest every day of the week, travelled to Cluj myself once, and all the Romanians I have met AREN'T idiots. Weird.

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I just want flyable La-9/La-11, just can be used in Quick Mission will be OK :unsure:

 

And I also want to know how devleopers get and collect history dates about Tanks to keep them real, as I know, most dates that we can find in English were full of political prejudice to USSR, for example, the hull front of T-34 armor has about 118mm resistance to German 75mm APCBC(http://tankarchives.blogspot.com/2014/04/spare-track-links.html), but many "Western books" think it has only 90+mm, and the same example to USSR losts in WWII, Russia report their losts mean lost times, but most "Western books" understand it as lost numbers, and in fact, only 24.6% Soviet AFVs losts are "true losts" (irreversible losts) in 1944, and in 1945, it was 14.7%.

 

T-34's UFP had very hard steel, while this increased it's effectiveness against weapons of 37mm caliber, it decreased the effectiveness against rounds that had higher diameter than the armor's thickness (45mm), mostly because it lacks the elasticity to withstand impacts from bigger projectiles, that's why it has less effective resistance against the 75mm than it would have on paper.

 

 

 

 

53-13d168f1f0.jpg

 

55-180b3c4e48.jpg

 

 

 

Edited by -=PHX=-SuperEtendard

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Rise of Flight has 39 detailed sophisticated aircraft and three a nice map of the first world war.

While it is an older engine is 99% identical to the Box. It is better to fix the ROF when he has so many die-hard fans.

 

As it was mentioned they need money to do that and it is much better to have all these aisles of the simulation genre in the same game, tanks included. I'm excited to be able to fly a Yak, a P-38L and a Dr.1 / D.VII / D.Va in the same platform just in a different server / mission, with different players, and you get the picture. It will be fun. Multiplayer especially might gain a lot from it. And a strong community tends to strongly support the development.

 

Yeah, I'm excited about it. 

Edited by SeaW0lf
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Bittersweet albeit still exciting news. Could open the door for older versions of the P-51, P-47 and Tempest... down the road.

Who else would love to see the P-51B, P-47B and the Typhoon in the future??

 

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Bittersweet albeit still exciting news. Could open the door for older versions of the P-51, P-47 and Tempest... down the road.

 

Who else would love to see the P-51B, P-47B and the Typhoon in the future??

Would be cool. P-47B wasn't really used, only around 170 were made, the P-47C would be a better choice or an early D model.

Edited by Legioneod
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Bittersweet albeit still exciting news. Could open the door for older versions of the P-51, P-47 and Tempest... down the road.

 

Who else would love to see the P-51B, P-47B and the Typhoon in the future??

The Mossie is on my wishlist TBH 

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I think it's a genius idea to bring RoF/FC in to the il2 platform. WW1 has always been a niche within a niche, this can only increase the numbers playing.

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Guys:

Well... while not left completely speechless, I am having difficulty summing up but here goes:

 

Completely unexpected in a great way. Love that you are "revitalizing" ROF, I have always wanted to give it a go, but with the older engine, etc. I skipped to my favorite period WW2. Looking forward to how Flying Circus turns out. The tanks portion is a huge surprise and might just be the best one too. Can't wait!

 

While I am interested in the Pacific, I am fine with whatever reasons you all had for delaying it until later. Western Europe late war is great and paves the way for (wait for it!) early war planes on the western front at some point so I am happy.

Best of luck with things and I will purchase when I can.

 

P.

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Oh and to the Devs...just letting you know that with xmas coming up, my funds are tied up. HOWEVER, come January 2018....I will be preordering. Just in case you were hoping for a few more pre-orders to gauge interest. ALSO, I'm quite sure that my online squad will follow suit (they already have BOS) but they are into RAF a/c...so having the Spit Mk IX and the Hawker Tempest V in RAF colours flying over western europe should be the clincher!!! :)

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Bodenplatte? This is certainly good news for an unexpected Christmas present!

 

And then to look forward to Flying Circus -- good going guys!!!

 

   

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T-34's UFP had very hard steel, while this increased it's effectiveness against weapons of 37mm caliber, it decreased the effectiveness against rounds that had higher diameter than the armor's thickness (45mm), mostly because it lacks the elasticity to withstand impacts from bigger projectiles, that's why it has less effective resistance against the 75mm than it would have on paper.

 

 

 

 

53-13d168f1f0.jpg

 

55-180b3c4e48.jpg

 

 

 

Your views and date are based on American tests, but remember, Soviet high hardness armor not is American high hardness armor.

The link in my post show that Pak40 can only penetrate T-34 UFP at 1000m, and Pak40 has 118mm penetration at 1000m according <WWII Ballistics- Armor and Gunnery>.

Edited by zyss

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Your views and date are based on American tests, but remember, Soviet high hardness armor not is American high hardness armor.

The link in my post show that Pak40 can only penetrate T-34 UFP at 1000m, and Pak40 has 118mm penetration at 1000m occording <WWII Ballistics- Armor and Gunnery>.

In one of the comments in that article the Yugoslav tests are mentioned in which they got the T-34's ufp penetrated at 1300m. Still it's not that much of a difference. There might be a difference in the penetration standards though. Comparisons should be made within the very same standard. Like for example the case of the Soviet 122mm cannon, in which according to Soviet methodology penetrated around 175mm of armor but with the American system it's goes up to around 200mm which you can find listed in the WWII Ballistics book.

 

 

Edited by -=PHX=-SuperEtendard

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I'm giddy like a schoolgirl.

 

Tempest is by far my favorite aircraft of the war.  I wish it was the Mk II, but that would just be ridiculously overpowered.  And the Mk V looks better (by "better", I mean scary-ugly), so there's that.

 

Given the way multiplayer in BoX goes, this is going to be a relatively tough era for the Germans.  As good as the D-9 is - and it's damn good - the Tempest should be able to run her down quite handily on the deck.  Meanwhile, top cover of Mustangs will keep the Dora from dominating at mid-high altitudes.  The K-4 and G-14 will help at those altitudes, but their control issues at high speeds will be a problem, and they still shouldn't have the speed to match a P-51, though climb and turn will be to their advantage.  The A-8, though one of my favorite aircraft, is seriously outclassed against anything the Allies bring, except maybe the Spit Mk IX at low altitudes (but this depends on which version of the Spitfire we get - a LF with high boost is going to give even the Dora problems).  I suspect mission designers will have to include 262s more often than we expect.

 

The fighter-bomber advantage shifts firmly towards the Allies as well.  The P-38L and P-47D are going to seriously outmatch the 190s, nevermind the 109s.

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In one of the comments in that article the Yugoslav tests are mentioned in which they got the T-34's ufp penetrated at 1300m. Still it's not that much of a difference. There might be a difference in the penetration standards though. Comparisons should be made within the very same standard. Like for example the case of the Soviet 122mm cannon, in which according to Soviet methodology penetrated around 175mm of armor but with the American system it's goes up to around 200mm which you can find listed in the WWII Ballistics book.

 

 

Yugoslav tests had been quote in some articles, but I didn't found the provenance of Yugoslav tests, and this tests show T-34 armor has 350 BHN, also inconsistent with other tests, so I don't think

"Yugoslav tests" is a reliable date. If you have the provenance of Yugoslav tests, I'd like to see it.

 

And don't wuzzle the standards and test results, the penetration can be different because the different standards, but the test results always is yes or not. The date of Soviet test T-34 in March of 1944, said that Pak40 can penetrate T-34 UFP without track links attached at 1000m, but can't penetrate at 1100m is just mean yes or not penetrate.

Edited by zyss

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As soon as I got my Vive, I had a single dream: Rise of Flight in VR. This is odd, because my heart truly lies with WWII air combat and I have played combat flight simulators since I was 7 or 8. But something about the feeling of Rise of Flight, the low speeds, the perilous feeling that at any moment your wings might fall off, the beautiful soft body physics of the planes has stuck with me since it was called 'The First Great Air War.' At that time I could only watch youtube videos of it, but finally was able to run it when Rise of flight United came out. Bought all the planes and expansions and loved it. 

 

Every few weeks to few months I will google 'rise of flight vr' in the vague hope that I will see some official or mod support for the Vive. This exceeds my wildest dreams. Also in one fell swoop, Il-2 (which I also have deep love for since 1946 and have played to death in VR, even struggling through making missions for my friend and I to play in our server.) is adding nearly all of my favorite ETO aircraft. The only one missing is the P-51B, but the inclusion of the P-38 more than makes up for it!

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I'm giddy like a schoolgirl.

 

Tempest is by far my favorite aircraft of the war. I wish it was the Mk II, but that would just be ridiculously overpowered. And the Mk V looks better (by "better", I mean scary-ugly), so there's that.

 

Given the way multiplayer in BoX goes, this is going to be a relatively tough era for the Germans. As good as the D-9 is - and it's damn good - the Tempest should be able to run her down quite handily on the deck. Meanwhile, top cover of Mustangs will keep the Dora from dominating at mid-high altitudes. The K-4 and G-14 will help at those altitudes, but their control issues at high speeds will be a problem, and they still shouldn't have the speed to match a P-51, though climb and turn will be to their advantage. The A-8, though one of my favorite aircraft, is seriously outclassed against anything the Allies bring, except maybe the Spit Mk IX at low altitudes (but this depends on which version of the Spitfire we get - a LF with high boost is going to give even the Dora problems). I suspect mission designers will have to include 262s more often than we expect.

 

The fighter-bomber advantage shifts firmly towards the Allies as well. The P-38L and P-47D are going to seriously outmatch the 190s, nevermind the 109s.

 

I do not worry too much about the fighters, the Tempest is more like a fighter bomber flying rock, all it can do is to march fast with that amazingly powerful engine, and do slashing attacks in an already high speed environment. The iconic P51D under 3000m is out-turned and outrun by both A8 and D9, and dominates over 3000m at diving away from K-4 and G-14. Its main strategical strengths and why it was better than the German planes, were range, numbers, operational versatility, quality of pilot schools, and lowest drag. Except for the latter to keep a high dive speed up forever (lets the pilot pick his fights and live), the strengths hardly translate into IL-2s environment.

Now that Spitfire, that one becomes a dangerous fighter, as that engine lets it keep up the fight and gain a huge edge in energy the longer it lasts.

 

Interesting times ahead indeed ;)

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I've interviewed enough WWII Mustang pilots to take issue with a few of those comments.

While I fully acknowledge and understand survivor bias, and I'm far from one of those "P-51 was the best plane of the war!" Americans

I'm also not one of those who feels the need to over-compensate the other direction by reducing its success to misconception, nationalism, and late war circumstances. (though they certainly play a part)

In any case I don't think you're connecting the dots quite right there.

 

All things being equal (an admittedly rarer and rarer situation as the war progressed) It's the 190's that represented the greater threat - not the late 109's. At least that's what the actual pilots tell me.

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I've interviewed enough WWII Mustang pilots to take issue with a few of those comments.

While I fully acknowledge and understand survivor bias, and I'm far from one of those "P-51 was the best plane of the war!" Americans

I'm also not one of those who feels the need to over-compensate the other direction by reducing its success to misconception, nationalism, and late war circumstances. (though they certainly play a part)

In any case I don't think you're connecting the dots quite right there.

 

All things being equal (an admittedly rarer and rarer situation as the war progressed) It's the 190's that represented the greater threat - not the late 109's. At least that's what the actual pilots tell me.

Agreed, same goes for the P-47 imo. Many American pilots agree that the 190 was the better fighter and that they feared it more than the 109, at least from what Ive read.

Edited by Legioneod

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my own opinion.

 

You took a lot of.....

 

None of these product will be as good as to play it for longer time.

Those are just marketing products, To get more players and more payments.....I understand .... in this shit capitalism all what is worthy turns in only one way.... to make more sells for a price of less quality.

Quantity instead of quality.

I dont wish this here, but guys dont lets have a pink glasses.

 

I dont need Bodenplatte, I dont need special tanks game. What I need are improvements of the current BOS. I dont want a special tank game, I need a tank driving with planes flying and crashing above (current BOS)

 

Yes Cirkus will be fine, that I am looking forward, but bombers I miss in all your products.

I wish you can cope it all in quality level as you wish and at which we will be satisfied.....but seriously.... do you have capacities for that?

 

Yes its nice if dreams come to the true .... I am only afraid that you took too big bite.

Lets be surprised.

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I have no complaints regarding the quality of the product.

Your understanding of the situation is lacking - to say the least (and also keeping my post within the UA)

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What type of missions there will be in the career for the germans? Bombing with Me262, protection of landing Me262 with Fw190d, strafing airfields in one bodenplate mission...and what else

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There I am, having just purchased some of the RoF pack to finally get into flight sims, wishing they somehow updated the game the newer Sturmovik standards and not two months later, the Flying Circus announcement comes round the corner.

 

If I hadn't just spend money on the original, I'd have gotten the updated package. Still, happy the WW1 era will be available on contemporary tech! :)

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The iconic P51D under 3000m is out-turned and outrun by both A8 and D9, and dominates over 3000m at diving away from K-4 and G-14.

Try to outturn me in DCS. P-51 beats 190 in turning with no problem. You can outroll me for sure, but if you will start turning then better prepare to bail out.

That whole impression of P-51 being a flying brick is so wrong ...

Edited by =LD=Hiromachi
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Oh snap, I just felt 100 USD lighter after this announcement.

 

Sure some calmour for heavy strategic bombers (YAWN) but I am glad the devs haven't gone that way and instead bring mud moving Western Front our way.  Much more interesting. The Mozzie is missing on the list as is the 410 but mayybe we will get lucky just like we might with the Kuban Map including some more Soviet Medium bombers.

 

I would love Odessa and Romanian Oil fields mapped as well so we could do early war Odessa, Kiev and then the late war recapture but I think Kuban covers some of the most crucial East Front turning points in the war so I am happy.  A road to Berlin East Front would be fun as well or the Soviet mop up in Manchuria.  It is to 1C that I have a healthy respect for the East Front and if people watch Soviet Storm series on YT, you can get somewhat a general idea of the horror the East Front War was.

 

Still, Tempest, Spit IX, Jug, Lightening, Mustang and maybe if we are lucky a flyable B25, not to mention late war 109 and 190's.  Interesting.  Would love to see how they mix it up with the late war Soviet planes for fun.  At the end of the day in War it is the combination of objectives and supporting actions of Air Forces that dictated the success or losses of such aircraft though not Air Quake ))

 

May the Devs keep the Pacific on development as info comes in that they require.

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What type of missions there will be in the career for the germans? Bombing with Me262, protection of landing Me262 with Fw190d, strafing airfields in one bodenplate mission...and what else

The map isn't just about one mission - don't over-think the title.

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The map isn't just about one mission - don't over-think the title.

I know that, but in 44/45 there were mainly defence operations against bombers, right?

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I know that, but in 44/45 there were mainly defence operations against bombers, right?

I know that historically P-47's flying CAS and interdiction didn't see German fighters much.

When I build my campaign I'll add a few more than would be historically accurate strictly speaking, but still plausible.

 

I think German CAP, sweep, CAS missions are also plausible for career/campaign purposes, exacting historical veracity maybe notwithstanding.

 

I personally build missions/campaigns from the "historically plausible" standpoint.

I find it's better from the standpoint of player experience/bang for the buck.

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I know that, but in 44/45 there were mainly defence operations against bombers, right?

Well once you get this late in the war people just have to use their imagination a bit for missions, because the LW was in serious trouble, vastly outnumbered and with most experten dead or out out of the fight.

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I'm thumbing through my 352nd squadron history right now.

They racked up a number of kills, including 13 on one day alone - 26 December.

 

The second engagement of the day was with a formation of 30 109's right on the deck.

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Try to outturn me in DCS. P-51 beats 190 in turning with no problem. You can outroll me for sure, but if you will start turning then better prepare to bail out.

That whole impression of P-51 being a flying brick is so wrong ...

It's straight up ignorant.

 

Reading right now about Captain William Whisner (Moonbeam McSwine) outclimbing 3 190's after they jumped him at 2500 feet.

This was on Nov 21st of 44 - the day he scored 5 confirmed kills.

 

The pilots were obviously rookies, but I'm sure the engines in their 190's worked just fine.

The 352nd saw quite a bit of action during this period - I'll correct my statement above a bit.

 

I read some documentation from the 404th squadron history where they didn't encounter a ton of German opposition, but the 352nd saw plenty....on given days.

Edited by Gambit21

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my own opinion.

 

You took a lot of.....

 

None of these product will be as good as to play it for longer time.

Those are just marketing products, To get more players and more payments.....I understand .... in this shit capitalism all what is worthy turns in only one way.... to make more sells for a price of less quality.

Quantity instead of quality.

I dont wish this here, but guys dont lets have a pink glasses.

 

I dont need Bodenplatte, I dont need special tanks game. What I need are improvements of the current BOS. I dont want a special tank game, I need a tank driving with planes flying and crashing above (current BOS)

 

Yes Cirkus will be fine, that I am looking forward, but bombers I miss in all your products.

I wish you can cope it all in quality level as you wish and at which we will be satisfied.....but seriously.... do you have capacities for that?

 

Yes its nice if dreams come to the true .... I am only afraid that you took too big bite.

Lets be surprised.

 

 

Your definition of quality is not the only  possible definition. As a company they need to  focus on what  brings  better return and  more stability to the company.  That means to cater to   a larger audience, whiel tryign to not drop  their  already high standards. The  "easiest" way is to  tackled the western front where they  pull  in   UK and US  plane lovers ( at least half the US ones).

 

You may bet there is  far less people interested in flying b17s You  can jugt see that in  almost ny server  thre is 3-4 fighters flying for each bomber. How many of those bombers are doign  level bombing?  About 1 in 30?  

 

So while  b17 woudl be great for the game as completion, it would bring much less  net satisfaction   than for   example the P38.

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I'm still a little bit schocked...but in very positive way! Western front, western front, WESTERN FRONT!

 

Thank you for this revision of your plans, I'm sure, that it was reasonably decision.

 

 

 

....and my darling, Fw 190 A-8!

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It's straight up ignorant.

 

Reading right now about Captain William Whisner (Moonbeam McSwine) outclimbing 3 190's after they jumped him at 2500 feet.

This was on Nov 21st of 44 - the day he scored 5 confirmed kills.

 

The pilots were obviously rookies, but I'm sure the engines in their 190's worked just fine.

The 352nd saw quite a bit of action during this period - I'll correct my statement above a bit.

 

I read some documentation from the 404th squadron history where they didn't encounter a ton of German opposition, but the 352nd saw plenty....on given days.

Wich  190?  A8? D9?  the result would be drastically different.

 

Climbing is  basically linear to  power/weight ratio.  Also   not all  flight groups were receiving C3 fuel  anymore in november 44, so    you cannot be sure the engines were working at their peak power.

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Just reading yesterday all the awesome announcement. Very good and not easy decision for Jason and the team. Ordered all with no doubt!

 

For me, apart from having the nice surprises of Me-262, Mustang, etc, ... the three great things are:

 

1.- Flying Circus in VR: YEEESSSS!!!! Since having VR in BOS I uninstalled ROF from my PC. ROF was the only sim that brought me back to flight sim and now having WWI planes in VR will be a dream. Lower speed, air in the face, no canopy, ... just counting the days like a 8 years old kid waiting for Santa Claus.

 

2.- IL-2 demo: YES!!  this is a very clever item that will bring new curious VR users to the genre. 2018 and beyond there will be millions of VR devices avid for experiences. Most of them will want to test a free demo and many of them will cached by the sim.

 

3.- Commitment to VR: YES!! Having FC also in VR, the team shows a clear direction regarding VR technology. It was promised and it was delivered. With the new VR devices coming this (Windows MR) and next year (Pimax!) we will see a huge migration from monitor to VR. Follow this poll:  https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/27278-about-vr-and-vr-devices-used/

 

We all need to understand that 1GC/777 is a company that need to pay the salaries of their employees every month and at the same time try to satisfy the dreams of everyone. Not an easy task. The IL-2 series with BoX, FC-VolX, collector planes, etc is the formula for future long term sustainability of their business, allowing the people with deeper pockets to support the team.

 

PD: Jason, For Christmas I wanted to send some bottles of wine from my region (Aragón) to the Moscow team, where can I have a postal address?

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Wich  190?  A8? D9?  the result would be drastically different.

 

Climbing is  basically linear to  power/weight ratio.  Also   not all  flight groups were receiving C3 fuel  anymore in november 44, so    you cannot be sure the engines were working at their peak power.

Doesn't really matter within the context of this particular conversation honestly.

There's quite a gap between 'can't do anything but dive away' and outclimbing any 190 regardless of fuel.

Context old man...context.

We can get into the weeds on performance vs various 190 models down the road - or someone can.

I have no interest.

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I wonder which will be the first plane to fly in early access. I love early access. Best part of the game development for me.

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As it was mentioned they need money to do that and it is much better to have all these aisles of the simulation genre in the same game, tanks included. I'm excited to be able to fly a Yak, a P-38L and a Dr.1 / D.VII / D.Va in the same platform just in a different server / mission, with different players, and you get the picture. It will be fun. Multiplayer especially might gain a lot from it. And a strong community tends to strongly support the development.

 

Yeah, I'm excited about it.

+1

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I wonder which will be the first plane to fly in early access. I love early access. Best part of the game development for me.

Jason said one of the 109's or the Spit. :)

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