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Novice-Flyer

Too many Bf 109s in the game?

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The Devs need revenue in order to continue existing, it's a business.

Thus I don't begrudge the 109 decision...and as already pointed out that's what the Germans were flying...109's and 190's thus if you're going to keep

offering fighters and maintaining interest for the fighter guys, then that's what you're stuck with.

 

If this was a perfect world and Jason could have achieved the same buy-in/revenue by stopping at the G-6 and moving on to other types like the Storch then that's exactly what would have happened. As it stands 109 guys are into the 109, they want those variations, those slight differences and offering those will maximize the sales, thus allowing continued development. 

Simple. Also having those variants adds to the complexity and richness of the sim in their own way. No not as much as a Storch, but I'd rather see financial success and  PTO and beyond.

If it means I never see my little Storch or other 'off the beaten path' types for this theater then fine.

 

As far as 109's go personally only care about the Emil - after that I lose interest. :P

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39 minutes ago, Gambit21 said:

The Devs need revenue in order to continue existing, it's a business.

Thus I don't begrudge the 109 decision...and as already pointed out that's what the Germans were flying...109's and 190's thus if you're going to keep

offering fighters and maintaining interest for the fighter guys, then that's what you're stuck with.

 

If this was a perfect world and Jason could have achieved the same buy-in/revenue by stopping at the G-6 and moving on to other types like the Storch then that's exactly what would have happened. As it stands 109 guys are into the 109, they want those variations, those slight differences and offering those will maximize the sales, thus allowing continued development. 

Simple. Also having those variants adds to the complexity and richness of the sim in their own way. No not as much as a Storch, but I'd rather see financial success and  PTO and beyond.

If it means I never see my little Storch or other 'off the beaten path' types for this theater then fine.

 

As far as 109's go personally only care about the Emil - after that I lose interest. :P

I am with you all the way on this. I enjoy them all (109’s) but strangely enough, the Emil is still my favourite.

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6 hours ago, VesseL said:

All the current, and will be planes, 109 included, are not too much. But if one 109 should go i would let the G-4 go. If it would be that simple i would change it for typhoon, spit 14, or mosquito.

 

5 hours ago, Novice-Flyer said:

I would agree with you, the G-4 is too similar to the G-2. The devs should have put the G-6 in that spot instead of making it a Collector. I like your thoughts on the Mosquito.

 

One mans trash is another mans treasure...

I love the G-4, probably my favorite variant to fly right now out of all the 109s and a nice blend between the G2 with its 1.42ata restriction still in place, and the larger gear and tail wheel and bumps of the G6.

 

Too bad we also don't have in game voice communications that are linked to radio performance. It would have been really cool to get the range benefits that the radio in the 109G4 had and have that extra differentiator in game.

Edited by =EXPEND=Tripwire
a word
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On ‎11‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 11:27 AM, Field-Ops said:

He takes his point further by plainly saying he thinks BOM has no place in the series, and he is wrong.

No, I'm not PLAINLY SAYING that BOM has no place in the series. AND I'M NOT WRONG! When I listed Same in my list of aircraft, I meant that the aircraft list for BOM and BOK Collectors don't need to be changed.

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On 11/12/2017 at 9:08 AM, Novice-Flyer said:

My list of planes would be.

          BOS                                                        BOM                                                      BOK

USSR.    Germany                                          Same                                         USSR               Germany

Yak 1      Bf 109 G-2                                                                                          Yak 7                Bf 109 G-6

LaGG 3   Fw-190 A-3                                                                                        A-20B                He-111-16

IL-2         Ju 87                                                                                                  P-39L-1             Fw 190 A-5

Pe 2        He-111-6                                                                                            IL-2 mod 43      Bf 110 G-2

                                                                                                                                                    The Bf 109 G-2 can be used in BOK with field mods

       Collector                                                                                                                Collector

La 5         IAR 80                                                                                                           Same

Back when I wrote this in November 2017, my knowledge of the Bf 109 variants and where they fought in was very limited. Now I have a much greater knowledge.

Here is the new list:

            BOS                                                    BOM                                                                                                         BOK                                                                   

USSR.       Germany                         The devs got the plane list correct for BOM                                 USSR                  Germany

Yak 1         Bf 109 F-4                      except for the F-2                                                                             Yak 7                  Bf 109 G-6

LaGG 3      Bf 109 G-2                                                                                                                                  A-20B                 He-111 H-16

IL-2            Ju-87                                                                                                                                           P-39L-1              Fw 190 A-5

Pe-2          He-111 H-6                                                                                                                                 IL-2 mod 43       Bf 110 G-2

                      

          Collector                                                                                                                                                               Collector

La 5           IAR 80                                                                                                                                               The devs got the BOK collectors correct

 

                  The devs got the plane list correct for Bodenplatte.

Edited by Novice-Flyer

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Thanks, we've all been waiting for this!

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Just now, Gambit21 said:

Thanks, we've all been waiting for this!

 

We have?

 

By the way, you is wrong, be sure, in your post at the top of this page. Its after the F4 that you should loose interest!

 

It was probably the aircraft that i flew the most in 46, not just because it was nice, but there is no other plane where you could fly in so many theaters and shoot down so many different types of opposition!

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2 minutes ago, DD_fruitbat said:

 

We have?

 

By the way, you is wrong, be sure, in your post at the top of this page. Its after the F4 that you should loose interest!

 

It was probably the aircraft that i flew the most in 46, not just because it was nice, but there is no other plane where you could fly in so many theaters and shoot down so many different types of opposition!

 

LOL - OK yeah the F4 is nice, the best dog-fighter of the bunch.

 

The Emil just gives that visceral 'early war' feel. :)

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1 minute ago, Gambit21 said:

 

LOL - OK yeah the F4 is nice, the best dog-fighter of the bunch.

 

The Emil just gives that visceral 'early war' feel. :)

 

Emil vs i16 is really good fun. Was in 46, still is in this game. :good:

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On ‎11‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 6:08 PM, Novice-Flyer said:

 This is way too many Bf 109s, and except for the E-7, they are pretty much identical to one another. 

 

You surely learned a little about 109s in the meantime. Remember, there never ever could be too many 109s been modelled unless every and all variant is present in the game. Same is true for Yaks, Fw-190s and Spitfires. 😎

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The only other option for a 3rd German fighter is the He112 but it was built in such small numbers ..... maybe a collector's plane :)

Edited by 15[Span.]/JG51Spartan
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Every 109 is different, as well as every Spitfire, Pony, 190, etc. There can never be enough planes.

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Not enough for me...I miss Bf 109 G10,G6 AS,G14 AS...

Edited by ITAF_Rani
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6 minutes ago, ITAF_Rani said:

Not enough for me...I miss Bf 109 G10,G6 AS,G14 AS...

Would love to see a G-10. You can never have too many variants of any aircraft, one variant just doesn't show it all imo.

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6 hours ago, Legioneod said:

Would love to see a G-10. You can never have too many variants of any aircraft, one variant just doesn't show it all imo.

 

Yep. G-10 and G14/AS would make most sense for the BoBP setting. Together those types made about half the 109-fleet strength of the germans in the west back then. 

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They are pretty much a waste of time since the ratings and performance is very similiar to the K-4 (which is a tad faster, but a tad heavier as well) and there is far less modelling information on the G-10 or G-14/AS.

 

K-4 can be used a stand in for those just fine.

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9 minutes ago, VO101Kurfurst said:

K-4 can be used a stand in for those just fine.

 

That is true, but after releasing the Spitfire XIV, Arado 234, Mosquito VI, Meteor III, Ju 88S and Ta 152 H1 collector planes, and if they got the time, they could easily patch those left out 109s in for completeness sake, can´t they? 😉

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Sure, they would make nice collectors, or they could Just add a G-14/AS as a mod. But its definietely low priority on my list, I would rather have a Typhoon or something more useful.

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They need to be veary cerfule and plan ahead good if they wona make more 109s as collectable, as there is not many options for axis fighters when they wona do some 10xDLC battle of, they can easy run out of german fighters for most of battles. 

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13 minutes ago, VO101Kurfurst said:

They are pretty much a waste of time since the ratings and performance is very similiar to the K-4 (which is a tad faster, but a tad heavier as well) and there is far less modelling information on the G-10 or G-14/AS.

Just as a side note, but correct me if I'm wrong, it seems to me that WWII pilots did fly the Me-109 they had at their disposal, much the same way as we run Windows or Linux, and did not much bothered about the actual version or build number as much as we geeks do. Of course it made a difference to go into battle in an F-4 or a G-10, but performance differences were less of an issue for them than they are for us. 

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The part in which the K-4 isn't that good of a stand in for a G-14/AS or G-10 is in low altitude performance. Their high alt performance is at a compromise for low altitude speed. With the K-4 you can be fairly safe to run away if the fight ends up at the deck, or catching a fleeing opponent, as long as it isn't a Tempest or a high boost P-51. So it tickes all the boxes unlike the more common G-14/AS in which you would have to be careful to pick your fights and stay mostly at mid to high altitude.

Edited by -=PHX=-SuperEtendard

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17 minutes ago, sniperton said:

Just as a side note, but correct me if I'm wrong, it seems to me that WWII pilots did fly the Me-109 they had at their disposal, much the same way as we run Windows or Linux, and did not much bothered about the actual version or build number as much as we geeks do. Of course it made a difference to go into battle in an F-4 or a G-10, but performance differences were less of an issue for them than they are for us. 

 

I think this makes a lot of sense, and besides, it would be an advantage to jump in your next, improved plane and discover it differs little from the last one. AFAIK the 109 always remained competitive during its development cycle and it never did arrive, even the K, at a development dead end, like the 111 for instance, where new engines and tweaks were no longer doing it.

 

Edit: weird necroing, this thread is.

Edited by danielprates

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Since this thread got revived, I have to say it's really something being able to quickly switch between the different flavors of the 109.

It's amazing just how different the early 109's fly compared to the late ones, despite them "looking" very similar. You can really feel just how much heavier the late 109's are compared to the F series. 

IMO, if you had to put things on a spectrum, the later 109's are much closer to the 190's than they are to the 109 E and F's in terms of how they feel in the cockpit.

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I do not understand the point of this thread.  The goal is to eventually have the whole war simulated, right?  What does it matter if they add a bunch of 109s now or later?

 

Are we going to start a Too Many Spitfire Variants thread when they start adding the various marks?

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5 hours ago, JG13_opcode said:

I do not understand the point of this thread.  The goal is to eventually have the whole war simulated, right?  What does it matter if they add a bunch of 109s now or later?

 

Are we going to start a Too Many Spitfire Variants thread when they start adding the various marks?

 

Maybe when we have eight separate flyable Spitfires. 

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10 minutes ago, Royal_Flight said:

 

Maybe when we have eight separate flyable Spitfires. 

Looking forward to the day

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To complement the blue fighters and relieve the 109 and 190 of carrying the brunt of work in Europe, my wet dreams someday would be the italian fighter machines of 1943, especially the often overlooked and underrepresented G.55 and Re.2005.

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1 hour ago, Royal_Flight said:

 

Maybe when we have eight separate flyable Spitfires. 

 

Make my day...

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Well, the most important Spits are:

Mk.I 

Mk.II with Cannon Option

Mk.Vb but including Merlin 45M and clipped tips option

LF Mk.Vc including the 45M and clipped tips option

 

Mk.IX with Merlin 61 and .303s

Mk.IX with Merlin 63

LF Mk.IX with Merlin 66 with MK.XVI  Canopy and Cockpit Option

 

Mk.XIV

 

Pretty much 8

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I love all 109`s but my favourites are G2, G6, G14 and K4 in the Game now. 

I am happy that we have such a great choice, also happy about 3 different 190´s soon and now we have 2 Spitfires, Mark5 and 9 are great, I hope for a Mark14 aswell.

Any plane which is coming is welcome, I love them all and I bought every single plane available untill now and want to buy the rest what´s coming.

Edited by spitfirejoe

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23 minutes ago, spitfirejoe said:

I love all 109`s but my favourites are G2, G6, G14 and K4 in the Game now. 

I am happy that we have such a great choice, also happy about 3 different 190´s soon and now we have 2 Spitfires, Mark5 and 9 are great, I hope for a Mark14 aswell.

Any plane which is coming is welcome, I love them all and I bought every single plane available untill now and want to buy the rest what´s coming.

 

Three 190s now (A3, A5, A8) with the Dora coming.  And through mods even more because we can create the F and G ground attack variants.

All for the Mk IV as a collector since the Germans have the late war K models.  

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2 minutes ago, PatrickAWlson said:

 

Three 190s now (A3, A5, A8) with the Dora coming.  And through mods even more because we can create the F and G ground attack variants.

All for the Mk IV as a collector since the Germans have the late war K models.  

oh yes sorry, of Course we have 3 190´s already and the 4th is coming soon 😉

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While I am not against having so many bf109 in the game an problem with having so many already including several fw190 is that it makes it difficult to make another 5+5 expansion with germany and the remaining types of both the bf109 and fw190 are either not very different or not well known (Like bf109 *AS).

 

Realistically eastern front 1944/1945 is the only theather left you can squeeze the remaining important types in that might still be popular enough to sell.

Normandy cannot be done because of lack of german operations + main important types (bf109G6 and Fw190A8) are sold already.

Battle of britain/North africa/Mediterranean are being created/done by TFS and Northern Italy and Murmansk might not be popular enough to the common customer (even if I would love to see these theathers done).

Edited by ww2fighter20
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3 hours ago, ww2fighter20 said:

Realistically eastern front 1944/1945 is the only theather left you can squeeze the remaining important types in that might still be popular enough to sell.

Normandy cannot be done because of lack of german operations + main important types (bf109G6 and Fw190A8) are sold already.

Battle of britain/North africa/Mediterranean are being created/done by TFS and Northern Italy and Murmansk might not be popular enough to the common customer (even if I would love to see these theathers done).

 

This is why the devs probably should move away from the Big Battle Of X format, or at least branch out a little, and start selling map (with linked career) packs that use existing aircraft.

 

There's tons of work that would be done around D-day, for example.

 

That said, while I appreciate the work done by TFS, I would give my left arm for Battle of Britain or France in BoX (and Malta, and Italy, and North African, and on and on and on :P ). 

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On 2/8/2019 at 6:12 PM, sevenless said:

You surely learned a little about 109s

You're the one who has learned little about the Bf 109. Before buying this game in Christmas 2016, the only Bf 109 variants that I knew of were the E model, G-14, and Z Zwilling. Back in November 2017 when I wrote this thread, I erroneously stated that the F and G models were pretty much identical. They're NOT! The F and G models have different engines and armament. The G-6 has a greater firepower than the G-2 and G-4, and has blisters on the sides of the engine by the cockpit. The G-10 and the K-4 have different engines. I know now that there is a major difference between the Bf 109 variants. For a game that can include many aircraft in a module/installment, it's important to have ALL planes that fought there, but for BoX, which can only have 10 planes per pack, compromises have to be made. In this game, I feel if any Bf 109s were to go, it would be the F-2 and G-4. You can fly the F-4 in BOM career.

Edited by Novice-Flyer

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14 minutes ago, Novice-Flyer said:

You're the one who has learned little about the Bf 109

 

You misread my post. Feel free to read again. If, what I wrote offended you, I apologize. It wasn´t meant to be offensive.

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1 minute ago, sevenless said:

 

You misread my post. Feel free to read again. If, what I wrote offended you, I apologize. It wasn´t meant to be offensive.

Oh, terribly sorry about that. 

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Even if it’s historically accurate it’s still too many IMHO. 

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