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109 elevator effectiveness

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On 11/9/2018 at 5:27 AM, 303_Kwiatek said:

Yep but in BOX 109 got control heaviness much more faster then ex. Mig3 and the same worse elevator response.


According to Mark Hanna flying 109 Buchon:


" Pitch is also delighful at 250 mph and below. It feels very positve and the amount of effort on the control column needed to produce the relevant nose movement seems exactly right to me. As CL max is reached the leading edge slats deploy - together if the ball is in the middle, slightly asymmetrically if you have any slip on. The aircraft delights in being pulled into hard manuevering turns at these slower speeds. As the slats pop out you feel a slight "notching" on the stick and you can pull more until the whole airframe is buffeting quite hard. A little more and you will drop a wing, but you have to be crass to do it unintentionally. Pitch tends to heavy up above 250 mph but it is still easily manageable up to 300 mph and the aircraft is perfectly happy carrying out low-level looping maneuvers from 300 mph and below. Above 300 mph one peculiarity is a slight nose down trim change as you accelerate. This means that running in for an airshow above 300 mph the aeroplane has a slight tucking in sensation - a sort of desire to get down to ground level ! This is easily held on the stick or can be trimmed out but is slightly surprising initially. Maneuvering above 300, two hands can be required for more aggressive performance. EIther that or get on the trimmer to help you. Despite this heavying up it is still quite easy to get at 5G's at these speeds. "


And other test and pilots opinion:


- 7. No manoeuvrability trials were carried out against other aircraft but the Me.109F was dived up to 420 m.p.h., I.A.S., with controls trimmed for level flight and it was found that although the elevators had become heavy and the ailerons had stiffened up appreciably, fairly tight turns were still possible. [...]


Me 109 G:
- How difficult was it to control the 109 in high velocities, 600 kmh and above?
The Messerschmitt became stiff to steer not until the speed exceeded 700kmh.  The control column was as stiff as it had been fastened with tape, you could not use the ailerons. Yet you could control the plane."
-  Kyösti Karhila, Finnish fighter ace. 32 victories. Source: Interview by Finnish Virtual Pilots Association.


300 mph is near 500 kph IAS.   109 should be capable to get 5-6 G at speed 500-600 kph with trimmed for level flight. In BOX it is not possible casue elavator become too stiffness.  In all other planes ( Mig3, P-39, etc) it is easy possible to achive such G.  In other game where 109 is moddeled it is also possible to get 6 G at 500-600 kph IAS  with trimmed for level flight ( nose heavy) then above 650 kph IAS elevator beacame noticable heavier ( still plane is controlable to pull up up to 750 kph IAS)


Also roll rate comparison is interesting expecially regarding higher speeds controllability of different fighters.


From NACA charts  ( where was put also 109 G roll rate) it looks that at speed 300 mph and above  ex. 109, Spitifire MK V with metal airleons and P-40 should be close ( P-39 noticable worse)





How it looks in BOX?



BOX roll rates.jpg


P-40 is about 20 deg/s better then 109 when it should be better about 5-10 deg/s only .


King of rollers at high speed are La5  ( dunno about La5FN which isnt tested here), Fw 190 and Lagg3.  Fw 190 was close to RL data in roll rate but Lagg3 and LA5 was known ( from VVS test pilots opinion - no other data avaliable) from heavy controlls when banking from one side to opposite even at moderate speeds. It is no good that with some BOX update most planes got more stick force at higher speeds (  some cases like with 109 elevator stiffnes not exacly well done) but for some reason LA5 and Lagg3 was omitted here...




I'm sure I have seen players now assigning their pitch trim controls to their joystick elevator inputs. Now I'm not here to discuss who is or is not doing it, however, are you able to replicate this action and do some tests please to see if there is an advantage in having it this way instead of having it assigned to a key for example!? 

I believe this question is in keeping of the OP, so have asked the question here!



Edited by Haza
"pitch" added

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