Jump to content
VIRPILControls

Introducing the VPC MongoosT-50 Throttle

Recommended Posts

Yeah, I edited my previous post.

 

Repeat and/or duration.

 

With SWMapper I could only set the number of repeats (and delay between them). I could not change the duration (or I could not figured how, if that is possible). That's why I initially only mentioned the repeats.

 

In the meantime, I think SWMapper can be used with MongoosT-50 throttle, too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

UPDATE

 

I just remembered there is the possibility also to pilot two virtual axis (X and Y axis unused on the throttle) directly from the VPC software.

The procedure is described in page 14 and 15 of the software manual and is quite straightforward.

 

I'm able to get a 7th and 8th axis controled by the encoders and set up whatever % increase I want for each click of the encoder (up to 15% per click with a 10bit resolution). On testing, it is extremely reliable.

There is even the option to set a 3rd button to reset the axis to the middle position (50%)

 

That may be a very good and easy solution for people looking for two extra radiator axis on the throttle.

 

(Though it wont solve the Pe2 problem, because prop pitch is NOT an axis on this plane)

Edited by F/JG300_Gruber

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's a good solution.

 

It would seem that you can even leave the buttons enabled and use the encoder as an axis for water/oil radiators which can be bound to an axis and as buttons for water/oil radiators that only work with buttons.

 

But if they release the throttle with the analog ministick, no analog axes will be available. So I think a more flexible repeat/duration programming is still desirable (also for the third encoder).

 

For the propeller pitch I would want controls on the throttle handle anyway.

Edited by Seb71

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, F/JG300_Gruber said:

(Though it wont solve the Pe2 problem, because prop pitch is NOT an axis on this plane)

 

IRL Pe2 propeller pitch control is not electrical, controlled by a momentary ON-OFF-ON switch like in Bf 109/110/Fw190?

Why people try use this control in an axis?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Sokol1 said:

 

IRL Pe2 propeller pitch control is not electrical, controlled by a momentary ON-OFF-ON switch like in Bf 109/110/Fw190?

Why people try use this control in an axis?

It simply would be an elegant solution for some planes with automatic controls: press down the button to activate manual control of pitch / water / oil and then turn the same knob to change the settings. That's easy to remember and as soon as you need your mind somewhere else: press the button again to activate the automatics. If one turn of that knob would result in 10 to 20% up or down, it would be a fine solution for any plane.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, F/JG300_Gruber said:

UPDATE

 

I just remembered there is the possibility also to pilot two virtual axis (X and Y axis unused on the throttle) directly from the VPC software.

The procedure is described in page 14 and 15 of the software manual and is quite straightforward.

 

I'm able to get a 7th and 8th axis controled by the encoders and set up whatever % increase I want for each click of the encoder (up to 15% per click with a 10bit resolution). On testing, it is extremely reliable.

There is even the option to set a 3rd button to reset the axis to the middle position (50%)

 

That may be a very good and easy solution for people looking for two extra radiator axis on the throttle.

 

(Though it wont solve the Pe2 problem, because prop pitch is NOT an axis on this plane)

 

Hmmm. I tried to set it up as listed in the manual, and this didn't work for me. Can you post your settings?

Edited by GridiroN

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There you go.

 

The only things to change are :

 

Joystick logical > Axis name X or Y as required 

                                Precision : 10

Axis Source > Type : Virtual

Virtual axis params > Increase axis : use the physical rotary button (ex 61 for E1 when turning clockwise)

                                       Set to center : only if you want an instant reset to 50% (ex : 52 is the E1 press button)

                                      Decrease axis : the other rotary button (here 60 for E1 counter-clockwise)

                                      Step value : depends on the percentage change you want for each click

 

For the step value, precision 10 (10bits) is going from 0 to 1023 at maximum value 

If you want a 10% increase per click, set the step value to 102, for a 5% increase put 51

 

Sorry if that sounds a bit dumb, but : like for any change, don't forget to actually load the modified setup into the throttle itself by clicking on the blue button "step 3 save device profile" on the top center of the window.

 

After the reload you should be able to see the virtual axis movement in both windows.

 

virtax.png

 

Some foot notes :

 

Maximum allowable step value is 154, regardless of the resolution (precision) set to the axis 

This corresponds to 15,04% of axis movement in 10bits (1024 values), 7.52% in 11bit (2048 values) , 3.76% in 12bit (4096) and so on.

 

10 clicks at a 102 step value will get you up to 1020 and not 1023, so there will always be a slight difference (one more click will get you up 1023)

this is not an issue if the difference is small enough (5 or less I believe ?), the throttle will read it at 100% anyways 

 

If you are going for smaller increments per click (say 1 or 2%) it is better to get a higher precision on the axis (12bits) and take a step value that matches better the real value you would need for the increment.

 

For example :

in 10bit for a 2% per click you would need a real step value of 20.46 (1023 is 100%, so 10.23 is 1%) so either 20 or 21 will yeald noticeable error through the range

in 12 bits , for a 2% per click, the real step value would be 81.9, so 82 should work fine

 

 

Edited by F/JG300_Gruber
  • Thanks 5
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, 216th_Retnek said:

It simply would be an elegant solution for some planes with automatic controls: press down the button to activate manual control of pitch / water / oil and then turn the same knob to change the settings. That's easy to remember and as soon as you need your mind somewhere else: press the button again to activate the automatics. If one turn of that knob would result in 10 to 20% up or down, it would be a fine solution for any plane.

 

Interesting idea for a setup.  I use T4/T5/T6 for the pitch/water/oil controls.  The manual/auto toggle command for each can be assigned to each B button just in front of each T switch for proximity and convenience.  Just a thought.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/30/2018 at 3:49 AM, F/JG300_Gruber said:

There you go.

 

The only things to change are :

 

Joystick logical > Axis name X or Y as required 

                                Precision : 10

Axis Source > Type : Virtual

Virtual axis params > Increase axis : use the physical rotary button (ex 61 for E1 when turning clockwise)

                                       Set to center : only if you want an instant reset to 50% (ex : 52 is the E1 press button)

                                      Decrease axis : the other rotary button (here 60 for E1 counter-clockwise)

                                      Step value : depends on the percentage change you want for each click

 

For the step value, precision 10 (10bits) is going from 0 to 1023 at maximum value 

If you want a 10% increase per click, set the step value to 102, for a 5% increase put 51

 

Sorry if that sounds a bit dumb, but : like for any change, don't forget to actually load the modified setup into the throttle itself by clicking on the blue button "step 3 save device profile" on the top center of the window.

 

After the reload you should be able to see the virtual axis movement in both windows.

 

virtax.png

 

Some foot notes :

 

Maximum allowable step value is 154, regardless of the resolution (precision) set to the axis 

This corresponds to 15,04% of axis movement in 10bits (1024 values), 7.52% in 11bit (2048 values) , 3.76% in 12bit (4096) and so on.

 

10 clicks at a 102 step value will get you up to 1020 and not 1023, so there will always be a slight difference (one more click will get you up 1023)

this is not an issue if the difference is small enough (5 or less I believe ?), the throttle will read it at 100% anyways 

 

If you are going for smaller increments per click (say 1 or 2%) it is better to get a higher precision on the axis (12bits) and take a step value that matches better the real value you would need for the increment.

 

For example :

in 10bit for a 2% per click you would need a real step value of 20.46 (1023 is 100%, so 10.23 is 1%) so either 20 or 21 will yeald noticeable error through the range

in 12 bits , for a 2% per click, the real step value would be 81.9, so 82 should work fine

 

 

 

I got it working man, thanks. Interesting technique...definitely increases the utility of the encoders.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Did anybody figure out how you can make use of the mode selector besides changing the buttons B1-B8? The documentation says "coming soon" (how long has the throttle been available now?) and by looking at the software, i don't even know where to start and what does what.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, Matt said:

Did anybody figure out how you can make use of the mode selector besides changing the buttons B1-B8? The documentation says "coming soon" (how long has the throttle been available now?) and by looking at the software, i don't even know where to start and what does what.

 

What do you mean exactly ?

If it is making more buttons to change with the mode selector I can help

 

If you are thinking of some other functions it may have, well I don't understand everything either, there are a lot of things that I can't make working at all, so I'm like you, waiting for an updated manual.

Edited by F/JG300_Gruber

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/3/2018 at 4:30 PM, F/JG300_Gruber said:

What do you mean exactly ?

If it is making more buttons to change with the mode selector I can help

Yes, that's basically what i would like to do. Have the mode selector modify the switches on the panel. I just can't figure anything out with the software (and i was comfortably using the Target script editor, which probably says alot about the current state of the Virpil software...).

 

 

Also to add a con for the throttle:

When both throttle levers are connected, the connection is not tight enough to prevent wobble. So you can move the left lever a bit without moving the right never and vice versa. Not by a lot, maybe 1-2 mm or so, but it's enough to annoy me a bit. It doesn't effect the ingame axis though, because when you connect the throttles, only one physical axis is being registered for both axes you bound ingame (pretty smart feature). So it's only a tactile issue.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Matt said:

Yes, that's basically what i would like to do. Have the mode selector modify the switches on the panel. I just can't figure anything out with the software (and i was comfortably using the Target script editor, which probably says alot about the current state of the Virpil software...).

 

Well, I've not touched to anything like the target software, and virpil software didn't felt especially bad for me (I found the VKB software to be much worse !) Maybe you have too much habits with Target (just joking here :happy:)

 

I'm not at home so sorry for the screenshots, these are screenshots of the screenshots of the Virpil manual :P (Any person making an inception joke will is exposing himself to lawsuit)

 

On the Button page :

 

You have that big white table on the left :

 

bR3KzN2.png

 

This is what you are looking for.

 

In the columns you have :

Logical button This is what will come out of the throttle (what IL2 will read when you assign a command). 

- Physical Button : This one is the actual, physical button on the throttle assigned to the logical button. Press your big yellow B9 button and  you will see square 50 illuminated in red in the table just left. This means the yellow button is the n°50 physical button.

- Mode : This allow you to change how the logical button will react. (Normal, Inversed, switch, encoder...)

- Shift : Shift is what you are looking for here, it tells in which "shift state" (mode selector position) the logical button will react. If it displays "--" it means that the button is active in all 5 modes

- Delay : Various responses depending on the mode selected, I won't detail that here. Leave it on "nothing"

 

 

So lets say that you want to make your T1 toggle switch working with the mode selector switch :

 

1) Actuate the switch to figure out what are the physical button for the up and down positions (I can't test it right now, so let's say that you read 20 for UP and 21 for DOWN)

 

2) Look for the numbers you just got in the "Phys button" column, and double click on the corresponding lines

 

Let's say that for the UP (Phys. 20) you found it within the line of logical button 24

You should see this menu opening :

 

jpu51VU.png

 

First thing to do is unticking the "Autobind" box if it is ticked (or else the phys button will be stuck on 55 or so, because the mode selector input is always active)

You may notice a difference : in the "shift" box you will have 0, which means that the button will work in all 5 mode selector position

Now change the value to "1" and click on the save button.

You will see that on the white table, on the Logical button 24 line, number 1 now appears in the shift column.

Now do the same thing for the DOWN position, which should be the previous or next line.

 

You should end up with something looking like this :

 

OJNAoN2.png

 

Now onto the next step :

 

3) Create a new logical button that will be activated by the T1 switch, but only with the mode selector in position 2

 

Scroll down the white table to around Button 50 or 60, you should see a lot of free button that don't have an assignment yet.

Repeat the process in step 2, but now you will have to fill everything : phys button (20 for T1 UP, and 21 for T1 DOWN in my example), mode normal, and shift : "2", leave delay on 0

and save for each button.

 

The finished stuff looks like this :

(Again, the numbers will be different on your own, and the lines wont be together like this)

 

jpgk5G3.png

 

If I was to upload this into the throttle, what I would get is

With mode selector on 1, T1 UP would activate button 24 and T1 DOWN would activate Button 25

With mode selector on 2, T1 UP would activate button 26 and T1 DOWN would activate Button 27

With mode selector on 3, 4 or 5 nothing would happen because no logical buttons are assigned. 

 

 

I hope this is clear enough to get you started with the process. Once you've done it a few time, it should get fairly intuitive. 

After you get the basics, you can make a few experiments with the modes (normal, reversed, switch...) and the delay to see how the button will then react, maybe it can give you some ideas for specific uses.

However, just forget about the encoders, sadly I can't get them working with the mode selector. I don't know if this is currently possible or not. 

 

:drinks:

Edited by F/JG300_Gruber
  • Thanks 3
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@F/JG300_Gruber Thanks for the detailed info! Do you happen to know if you can use the mode selector to "rebind" physical axes to logical axes? Mode switch would be nice to easily swap around axes depending on aircraft, e.g. 109 has trim axis but no mixture, A-20 wants throttle axis, prop axis, cowl flaps axes, etc. At the moment I "overbind" those controls being careful not to overlap too much, but being able to use the T-50 mode switch to outright change the axes on the throttle would be better.

 

(Also I don't (yet) own a T-50 throttle, Virpil is printing money right now -- they're always out of stock!!!)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Unfortunately I don't see any option in the current software do do such thing. 

it looks like it is possible to use the same rotary to pilot 2 axis at the same time (and have different parameters for each axis, like response curve and so on), but I don't see any input from the mode selector switch anywhere in the axis, setup or calibration screen. 

 

One thing to note is that the firmware in it's current form is not as not as generous as a Vjoy or equivalent. And the basic principle of how it handles the mode selector is a limitation in itself. 

 

I've never used the Target software or any such programs, so correct me if I'm wrong, but from what people say it looks to me that these are working by editing a full profile for each selector mode like :

 

Profile 1

Throttle axis > axis X

Button B1 > logical B1

T1 up > logical B2

T2 down > logical B3

 

Profile 2

Throttle axis > axis Y

Button B1 > logical B2

T1 up > logical B4

T2 down > logical B5

 

If this is true, then what people might be confused about is that the VPC software is working the other way around :

 

X axis > use throttle axis

logical B1 > use B1 (all modes)

logical B2 > use T1 up in mode 1

logical B3 > use T1 down in mode 1

logical B4 > use T1 up in mode 2

logical B5 > use T2 in mode 2

 

So each logical button will only have one single activation condition 

 

Here the maximum outputs you can get from the software by default are :

8 Logical Axis 

96 logical buttons

one 8-way POV hat

And 

 

So in all cases, you could only have a couple extra Axis. Probably not enough for your need. That is also why you can't have 5 full profiles, there are around 50 physical buttons on the throttle but you can't set up more than 96 logical one in the profile. 

 

 

For the buttons I don't know if they could be a way to increase that number, maybe by changing bytes or matrix rows and columns in the button page, but that is just a guess, it might just mess up everything and make the device not working at all.

Edited by F/JG300_Gruber

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

8 axes is a Windows and/or games limitation. T-50 already use 6 axes, so is only possible create more two "virtual axes" with encoders.

 

TARGET is limited to use 8 axes, 32 buttons in their virtual device.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, F/JG300_Gruber said:

You have that big white table on the left :

 

bR3KzN2.png

 

Thank you very much Gruber. I just didn't know that you can double click on the buttons in this white field and change the assignments, modes, shifts and delays that way. I was looking in the other menues to change this and just couldn't find anything. Now it's obviously very easy to adjust this. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/8/2018 at 6:55 AM, Sokol1 said:

8 axes is a Windows and/or games limitation. T-50 already use 6 axes, so is only possible create more two "virtual axes" with encoders.

 

I'm seeing main throttles 1 & 2, flap, rotary A1, A2 -- that's just 5, which one am I missing?

 

Maybe the answer is to use Joystick Gremlin (or similar) to map the axes from the physical throttle and onto a VJoy device, maybe a different VJoy device depending on plane type, then vary the Gremlin config to correspond to your plane. Unfortunately a bit of faffing required. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/9/2018 at 5:57 PM, No_85_Gramps said:

Axis wheel on front of right hand throttle.

 

Ah! I thought it was a spinner (my X52 has a spinner/mousewheel thing on it). Good to know.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Programing Gurus:

 

The Virpil software is like rocket science to me. Kindly someone guide me step by step on how to specifically make E1 - E3 into rotaries that I could assign to open/close radiators, cowl flaps, trim pitches, and stuff, please. I tried following the one described on the manual and the one posted above by Gruber but still couldn’t get it to work.

Thank you very much.

Edited by BP_Lizard

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
From Reddit:
 

 

Edited by Sokol1
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, BP_Lizard said:

Programing Gurus:

 

The Virpil software is like rocket science to me. Kindly someone guide me step by step on how to specifically make E1 - E3 into rotaries that I could assign to open/close radiators, cowl flaps, trim pitches, and stuff, please. I tried following the one described on the manual and the one posted above by Gruber but still couldn’t get it to work.

Thank you very much.

 

Lizard,

 

The E1-E3 buttons are not rotaries like the larger A1 and A2 knobs.  They spin in either directly without hitting a stop or limit.  I have them assigned as extra pitch, yaw, and roll trim as my joystick hat is my main trim switch (they allow some larger, quick changes to trim).  In IL2 they are assigned a key press when you twist the knob  right then left, not an axis.  They work pretty good for that use.  In Virpil software I have them set as Encoder type with 3 second delay.  So, you could use them for the key press radiator shutters control like that used by the one-step radiators

 

I have axis type radiator and cowl flaps assigned to CH quadrant levers, but I gave the T1 and T2 rotaries are try as cowl flaps.  There was some really unusual behavior with one rotary not wanting to go 100% in IL2.  Anyway, I finally got them working as the top and bottom cowl flap.  I had to change the setting in Virpil Configurator axis so that they were inverted (don't know why).  If you double click an axis in the Virpil axis setting page it will open a page where you can check the Inversion box.

 

Then in IL2 key settings I had more issues.  The menu calls for an axis setup to start in the center, move to higher value, and then to a lower value.  I had to do the opposite on one of the rotary assignments to get it to go to 100%.  The other was set in the normal high then low.  Both had to be set inverted which makes no sense as I inverted them in Virpil.  I sure someone else has worked it out totally different but this was all I could stumbled on through trial and error.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks, @Sokol , @czech693.

 

14 hours ago, czech693 said:

 I have them assigned as extra pitch, yaw, and roll trim as my joystick hat is my main trim switch (they allow some larger, quick changes to trim).  In IL2 they are assigned a key press when you twist the knob  right then left, not an axis.  They work pretty good for that use.  In Virpil software I have them set as Encoder type with 3 second delay.  So, you could use them for the key press radiator shutters control like that used by the one-step radiators

 

So how do I do this? Thanks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Open the Configurator; select your throttle; click load profile (NOT SAVE PROFILE); get a green check arrow.  Then click blue Button which opens the button assignment page; rotate one of the E1-E3 knobs left and right and observe which buttons light up on the button array.  Make a note of the Physical Button number for left and right directions (they'll will be two separate button presses, one for each direction as the E1-E3 knobs are not rotary).

 

Then on the button assignment column on the right select one of those Physical Buttons and double click it to open the button's info page.  Change mode to Encoder and Delay timer to 3, and Save.  Do that for the other two E1-E3 knobs.

 

Then as always; Save Profile; Load Profile; get a green arrow.

 

In IL2 assign two keys to the knob, one for each direction it rotates.

I actually have Delay set to 1 on those Encoders.  I guess I found that worked better than 3.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Video about configure "shift":

 

 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Virpil website is showing the throttle back in stock.

 

 

EDIT:  Never mind.  Out of stock already.

Edited by czech693
Situation changed
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, czech693 said:

Virpil website is showing the throttle back in stock.

 

 

EDIT:  Never mind.  Out of stock already.

EDIT: I was going to offer you the one I received yesterday but I have finally gotten it to work.

It kept downloading the profile and firmware for the joystick instead of throttle. As you might expect it is very difficult to calibrate a throttle using joystick firmware even if they have similar names. lol

 

For now I'm leaving everything set as factory default and not go near the customization tabs and features.

No denying it's the most complete and well built throttle on the market. So heavy it should come with wheels.

Edited by Gordon200

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Gordon200 said:

For now I'm leaving everything set as factory default and not go near the customization tabs and features.

No denying it's the most complete and well built throttle on the market. So heavy it should come with wheels.

Glad you got it sorted out. I had the t50 stick and then when I got the throttle I had an issue similar to yours. With the help from Virpil I got it sorted out. And like you, I am leaving it alone, don't see any need for updates. Not saying I won't in the future, but I doubt I will. I hope you will enjoy your throttle as much as I enjoy mine. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm beginning to think that this throttle and I are not meant to be together. Secondary to my exwife this is the most frustrating experience of my life.

Once I finally got the throttle to work I tried assigning buttons but when I launch IL*2 nothing has changed. The sim doesn't recognize input from half the controls even tho I've calibrated the settings IN GAME.

 

Does anyone have a working profile I could load or does it need to be done manually within each computer?

 

Life is not supposed to be this complicated. Lately the more I've had to pay for a device the more of a pain in the ass it turns out to be. I wanted a quality twin engine throttle not a bleeding ulcer.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anyone want to buy this Virpil MongoosT-50 Throttle Control System serial #000705?

 

I'm a 71 year old retired telecom project manager with colon cancer and I don't want to spend the next six months learning to use this throttle. I've already ordered a replacement of a different brand that I know I'm not going to be as happy with if I had gotten this damned thing figured out. In the config I press button 3 and it responds as button 8 -ok, I don't care what it calls itself as long as it works. I assign button 3 that thinks it's button 8 as 'Pause' then Accept and Exit Settings and begin QM only to discover that button doesn't do anything. I close game and reboot computer and relaunch game - nothing.

 

Yesterday after the update I only had minor problems getting the throttle recognized and some buttons assigned in game. Today all the game sees are the two engine throttles and NOTHING else.

 

The user manual is in Russian and the YouTube videos are in Australian and I can't understand either.

 

Make me an offer.

Edited by Gordon200

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×