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Introducing the VPC MongoosT-50 Throttle

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9 hours ago, TWHYata_PL said:

sorry can someone explain to me how to make throttle mode selector (1~5) to work with IL 2 ? Do I need an additional software for that? 

 

Only the B1-B8 buttons change with the selector out of the box. I'm not sure if that can be changed with the virpil software (i think so).

 

There is nothing specific you need to do with IL2 other than map them accordingly (when mapping in game change selector to assign them to the right mode).

 

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I just learnt about a really neat new feature I didn't know existed on the throttle:

 

When you link both throttles physically, it doesn't just join them so they move together. The lock mechanism also triggers a button that lets the software know the throttles are linked and actually assigns the logical values for both throttles to the values of one of the two physical ones (you can configure which one to use as the reference). 

 

This is a great little trick to avoid any hardware misalignments from ruining the experience and having one engine at 89% while the other is at 91%. This way both engines will always be at 91% for example.

 

This is brilliant!!

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17 minutes ago, Jade_Monkey said:

 

It's there already!

 

Yes sorry was not clear, that is what I was referring to.

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Welp, just got mine in the mail today. Paid $69 CAD for import fees. Ive had worse, but the state of Canadian international trade sucks. 

 

In any event, I had to oppurtunity to set up the throttle in both Xplane 11 and IL2. Heavy throttle...the quality is evident: steel construction everywhere. Didn't even really require any drivers which was lovely. The cable is able thin and braided which is LOVELY. Coming from an X55 that had a very thick, heavy cable, this is actually a very nice feature. 

 

I chose the smooth grip and I think it both looks and feels better than the pixelated default one would. My only complaint thus far is that it's synergy with IL2 will take work. I wish the 3 knobs at the bottom were linear wheels instead of clicky wheels. That would be infinitely more useful for antique flightsim. There is also no good button that synergizes with "constant" flaps well either (instead of incremental flaps like on the YaK). I prefer to have my BF109 stab, and my radiators on wheels, but I'm not sure how it'll work with a click based encoder(?).

 

Otherwise, lovely product. I love having my supercharger gear switch be the secondary throttle lever, like in most actual antique planes!

Edited by GridiroN

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12 hours ago, GridiroN said:

I prefer to have my BF109 stab, and my radiators on wheels, but I'm not sure how it'll work with a click based encoder(?).

 

There is a limit of 8 analog axes per device.

 

You do have 2 axis dials on the base. And the wheel from the handle.

 

They probably reserved the last 2 remaining axes for the analog mini-stick version (if that ever comes).

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12 hours ago, GridiroN said:

There is also no good button that synergizes with "constant" flaps well either (instead of incremental flaps like on the YaK).

 

T-3, T-4, T-5 are momentary  (MON)-OFF-(MON) switches, fit well for both types of flaps in IL-2:GB, incremental - press and hold until open or close (e.g. Bf 109, Yak-1) and  by steeps - press once for an steep, press again for another (e.g. Ju-57, Fw-190).

 

Quote

I wish the 3 knobs at the bottom were linear wheels instead of clicky wheels. 

 

Due IL-3:GB restrictions for use of axes (in most planes you can use then for radiators, trims), this type of rotaries - encoders, is welcomed, they press a button when turned clockwise and another when turned counterclockwise.

Edited by Sokol1

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Those encoders should also be pretty handy when switching through rocket or bomb drop modes, different gunsight modes, cockpit lights and similar stuff, which requires multiple presses of the same button. Atleast that's what i plan to use them for. But i'm sure i read somewhere, that those encoders can also be used as virtual axes.

 

For me, 6 axes will be enough for most planes, twice as many as the Warthog offers. Would of course be good if the mode selector would also affect axes, so that you can use them for different purposes. Or maybe it will be possible to bind commands for each planetype individually in Il-2 in the future. That would of course be even better.

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So after playing around, I have been able to remedy some of my previous issues for sure. 

However, I have found that the 3 encoders at the bottom (E1, E2, and E3) function oddly and do not reproduce a "button press" with every click. As in, if I click through 5 rotations, it may only register 3... I've brought this up to Virpil...they suggested I open a ticket. A number of people on Reddit say their throttle has the same thing, so if that is the case that this is intended, I'd have to say this would be my second dislike. Makes them fairly useless in my mind.

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10 hours ago, GridiroN said:

So after playing around, I have been able to remedy some of my previous issues for sure. 

However, I have found that the 3 encoders at the bottom (E1, E2, and E3) function oddly and do not reproduce a "button press" with every click. As in, if I click through 5 rotations, it may only register 3... I've brought this up to Virpil...they suggested I open a ticket. A number of people on Reddit say their throttle has the same thing, so if that is the case that this is intended, I'd have to say this would be my second dislike. Makes them fairly useless in my mind.

I have it the same way, but I suspect it's something that can be adjusted.

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I haven't gone back into the configuration software recently. I seem to remember seeing this problem in the configuration window but in the testing window they worked correctly. Which would lead me to believe it can be adjusted. 

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I did check the encoders recently (lowered their delay to 1) and my observation is the same: the configurator would show seemingly random presses of hardware buttons, but the supplied VPC joy tester showed them properly. This was not the case with original firmware for, so it was probably fixed in one of the recent updates.

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This press not detected seems related with Encoder delay, anyway test their behavior in game, not in (obsolete) Windows Games Controllers.

 

 

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On 11/21/2018 at 6:30 AM, LLv34_Temuri said:

I have it the same way, but I suspect it's something that can be adjusted.

 

So I managed to get in contact with a Virpil engineer who helped me out. Basically explained that this is working as intended. The encoder rolls in one direction, and if you change the direction, it drops a click and continues in the other direction. To be honest, it's not very well designed as my unit drops clicks even moving in the same direction from time to time, or it'll register 2 at once, but meh. I really wish Virpil would have simply used smaller dials for these buttons as click-based encoders that must only be turned in a single direction to register reliably are totally useless. 

 

I considered using them in X-Plane for speed, heading, and altitude MFD bugs, but...they work iffy and it's more satisfying to just use the mouse wheel. Very disappointed in this choice by Virpil, but otherwise a generally solid product. Build quality is outstanding, but I simply don't like two or three of their design choices. 

 

I did work out a decent way to work the flaps after all, but I would have preferred Virpil include some kind of thumb rocker instead of an array of hat switches. Perhaps a soft hat under the thumb instead of the rigid step-pyramid like hat? 

Edited by GridiroN
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For what it's worth I have found the E1, E2, E3 knobs useful for pitch, yaw, and roll trims, respectively.  They also each can be pressed which I use for cockpit, navs, and landing lights.

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Just now, VBF-12_Stick-95 said:

For what it's worth I have found the E1, E2, E3 knobs useful for pitch, yaw, and roll trims, respectively.  They also each can be pressed which I use for cockpit, navs, and landing lights.

 

Yea, the press-in button is as useful as any button. Only the encoder section im referring to. 

 

My trims I have on my VKB gunfighter hat.

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16 hours ago, GridiroN said:

 

So I managed to get in contact with a Virpil engineer who helped me out. Basically explained that this is working as intended. The encoder rolls in one direction, and if you change the direction, it drops a click and continues in the other direction

 

 

Please try out the latest firmware update on our site - some changes were made so that a click won't be lost when changing directions :)

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I received my throttle today. Just some short first impression:

 

Pros:

-Overall build quality is nice. I haven't opened it up yet, but from what i can tell, it feels sturdy and well constructed.

-Nice smooth lever and rotary movements. All are working excellently, good friction, smooth, no spikes or anything. Good adjustability of throttle lever friction. 

-Detends work really well. You definately notice them and i like the strength of them.

-Push buttons and hats all have a very nice feel to them. Encoders are working great as well (it looks wrong when you're testing them, with buttons registering all over the place, but it works flawlessly ingame).

-I was bit concerned that it would be difficult to use all the hat switches on the throttle levers with accidently hitting something else, but that's not an issue whatsoever. Overall the design is very ergonomic.

 

Cons (just personal opinion):

-The red/yellow button is a mistake imho. Takes up way too much space and doen't offer anything special. The space would've been enough for atleast two buttons or another rotary. Also it looks pretty bad. If the yellow button would be recessed or smaller and harder to reach, it would atleast somewhat make sense. But it's basically as easy to press accidently as any of the other buttons.

-You can only adjust the detends from the bottom, pretty troublesome if you're using a mount (which i do).

-The switch buttons feel cheaper than those on the Warthog throttle. They have quite a bit of movement to each side. The momentary switches are also pretty stiff, the permament switches work nicely though.

-The rotary wheel on the throttle lever works great, but it's also very easy to accidently move it when moving the throttle levers because it has a pretty low friction. I originally planned to use it as a mixture lever but during normal flight i kept changing mixture by mistake. I'll probably use it for something less important or not use it at all. But maybe i'll get used to it.

-No instructions whatsoever. Also had to update the firmware and couldn't find it on the website, so only after reading the manual, i noticed that the firmware is included in the software (RTFM on my part, but maybe change the download on the website to say something like "Software + firmware" instead of "Software" only).

 

Neutral:

-Software looks a bit complicated. I tried to adjust how the mode selector affects buttons, but it's basically trial and error for now. I was able to change the color switch though, so that's something.

 

 

So overall, of course it's not perfect but it fulfills my expectations and i'll replace my Warthog throttle with it.

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36 minutes ago, Matt said:

-The rotary wheel on the throttle lever works great, but it's also very easy to accidently move it when moving the throttle levers because it has a pretty low friction.

 

Accidentally moving this axis was only an issue at first for me as the axis stopped working all together about two months ago.

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17 hours ago, VBF-12_Stick-95 said:

Accidentally moving this axis was only an issue at first for me as the axis stopped working all together about two months ago.

 Problem solved i guess.

 

BTW, did anybody fill out the warranty card? Does Virpil expect that you sign it and send it back? Couldn't really find information about that on the website.

Edited by Matt

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3 hours ago, Matt said:

Cons (just personal opinion):

-The red/yellow button is a mistake imho. Takes up way too much space and doen't offer anything special.

 

It could be useful for VR users (when you can only find the buttons by feel). Eject button for instance. To make sure you don't press that one by mistake.

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4 hours ago, Seb71 said:

It could be useful for VR users (when you can only find the buttons by feel). Eject button for instance. To make sure you don't press that one by mistake.

 

I have my eject on a button combo, so I need my left and right hands to agree that I want to bail out. One of the guys was using Backspace for bail out and had a cat-related incident. He was quite sad and rebound it on the spot... 😉

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13 hours ago, VIRPILControls said:

 

Please try out the latest firmware update on our site - some changes were made so that a click won't be lost when changing directions :)

 

Where do I find that? There is no software for the throttle on your site. 

 

Also is it 181122? Because that's the one the engineer gave me which was newer than the one my throttle came with and the engineer said it wasn't a firmware issue; they both do it. 

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6 hours ago, GridiroN said:

 

Where do I find that? There is no software for the throttle on your site. 

 

Also is it 181122? Because that's the one the engineer gave me which was newer than the one my throttle came with and the engineer said it wasn't a firmware issue; they both do it. 

 

https://virpil.com/en/support/downloads

VPC configurator (software is for any virpil product)

 

But if you have 181122, you already have the latest. 

 

On your encoder issues :

If you set delay on 1 (faster pulse ~60-80 ms cycle) yeah, it might drop a click from time to time. I haven't managed to get around that either. It seems that occasionaly the output pulse length is too short (0ms from the joy tester) so IL2 or XPlane don't recognize this as a true button press.

If you set delay on 2 (more sluggish, but hey...) it works flawlessly for me and won't drop any clicks. 

 

Also there is the option with encoder 12 and encoder 24. 

I don't know the exact details but from what I've seen :

Mode 24 will record how many clicks you put into the encoder and give the equal number of pulses (but still affected by the problem associated with delay 1 setting)

Mode 12 will pulse for each click while you are turning the encoder, but will not record exactly how many pulses it has to do if you rotate faster than the maximum pulse rate.

Edited by F/JG300_Gruber

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Just received the "in stock" alert from Virpil, checked a minute after , and it was already sold out. Wow!

Anybody not bonding with his/hers and planning to sell, let me know. I'll be happy to take it off your hands.

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I guess those in stock messages are just horribly delayed. I got a message as well today and set up the alarm a couple of weeks ago.

 

In any case, they have restocked the last few weeks always on Friday, so maybe keep an eye on the store this Friday (can't promise anything of course).

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Will do. Thanks, Matt. 

 

 

1 hour ago, 392FS_SPEKTRE76 said:

Will it work with my X-52 Pro throttle? Is this a stand alone stick?

 

This thread is about the throttle. But yes, the Virpil stick is a stand alone. And yes, it will work with the X-52 throttle. I had the Virpil stick and an X-52 throttle setup at one point. 

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12 hours ago, GridiroN said:

 

Where do I find that? There is no software for the throttle on your site. 

 

Also is it 181122? Because that's the one the engineer gave me which was newer than the one my throttle came with and the engineer said it wasn't a firmware issue; they both do it. 

 

https://virpil-controls.eu/downloads/software.html

 

The software is the same for all our devices. You may have update 1 181122 - the version currently on our site is update 3 181122.  Our engineer made some changes to the upd3 firmware so that a click isn't lost when changing directions. Please try it out :)

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2 minutes ago, VIRPILControls said:

 

https://virpil-controls.eu/downloads/software.html

 

The software is the same for all our devices. You may have update 1 181122 - the version currently on our site is update 3 181122.  Our engineer made some changes to the upd3 firmware so that a click isn't lost when changing directions. Please try it out :)

 

Very interesting. I will look into this when I return home. 

 

It's funny... I have both this to look into and VKB asked me to take apart my Gunfighter and take some pics for them so they can sent me some new boards and cables so that is also on my plate... I should just open my own factory. 

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I have the same issues with the encoders. It's my biggest problem with the throttle. Everything else is working great so far.

 

I'll give it a shot with the new firmware.

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39 minutes ago, Jade_Monkey said:

I have the same issues with the encoders. It's my biggest problem with the throttle.

 

Same here, I would call it an inconvenience much more than a problem. Main complaint is the very retarded reaction of the Pe-2s prop pitch, water- and oil-coolers. It's possible, but one has to turn the knobs like mad to set the values. Like Gruber I tried to change some values, no success. The very same settings do fine for the He-111 or the Me-110. Turn one click left or right and the settings follow exactly 25 or 12,5%. Looks like the signals processing is different between the Pe-2 and the He-111. And the encoders way just fits to the German models.

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I was able to check out the new firmware. It's true that I was indeed on 2211 v2, where as this firmware is 2211 v3. I can report that indeed clicks in opposite directions do not drop 100% of the time anymore, but unfortunately, I also have to report that the encoder's tendency to skip clicks has increased a significant amount over v2. 

 

I took E2 and turned it maybe 10 times or so, then changed direction, then a couple more times, changed direction etc... and the clicking is still very inconsistent. Something like:

 

[click],[click],[click],[click],[click],[click],[click],[click],[skip],[click],[skip],[skip],[skip],[skip],[click],[click],[click],[skip],[click]

 

On v2, I only get 1 or 2 skips as long as I go in the same direction. 

 

25 minutes ago, 216th_Retnek said:

Same here, I would call it an inconvenience much more than a problem. Main complaint is the very retarded reaction of the Pe-2s prop pitch, water- and oil-coolers. It's possible, but one has to turn the knobs like mad to set the values. Like Gruber I tried to change some values, no success. The very same settings do fine for the He-111 or the Me-110. Turn one click left or right and the settings follow exactly 25 or 12,5%. Looks like the signals processing is different between the Pe-2 and the He-111. And the encoders way just fits to the German models.

 

 

The PE2's propellor governor is very slow. This is the game's issue I think, not the hardware. 

Edited by GridiroN

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8 hours ago, 216th_Retnek said:

Same here, I would call it an inconvenience much more than a problem. Main complaint is the very retarded reaction of the Pe-2s prop pitch, water- and oil-coolers. It's possible, but one has to turn the knobs like mad to set the values. Like Gruber I tried to change some values, no success. The very same settings do fine for the He-111 or the Me-110. Turn one click left or right and the settings follow exactly 25 or 12,5%. Looks like the signals processing is different between the Pe-2 and the He-111. And the encoders way just fits to the German models.

 

I wouldn't use the rotaries for anything that can be bound to an analog axis. 

The Bf110 oil and water rads (as well as the spitfire water rad) have a small number of steps, where the encoders can shine. 

 

If you are moving cowls or things which can ba adjusted 1% at a time, that is what the encoder pulses will probably do, so you need 100 clicks or more to get the desired effect. 

Some axis are even artificially slowed down like the bf109 elevator trim. It already takes ages with a simple press button, so with the encoders you will increase the response time 2 or 3 folds. 

The Pe2 prop pitch is even worse because it is NOT an axis, it is meant to be used with push buttons only. So putting this on encoders is never going to work well

 

I believe the encoders were designed with radio knobs in mind, and for that matter they are doing a find job in flying simulators.

I wish we had more freedom on the key mapping in the game, not wanting to insult anybody but the axis customization in Warthunder is so much better, I wish we had something similar here.

 

 

 

8 hours ago, GridiroN said:

I took E2 and turned it maybe 10 times or so, then changed direction, then a couple more times, changed direction etc... and the clicking is still very inconsistent. Something like:

 

[click],[click],[click],[click],[click],[click],[click],[click],[skip],[click],[skip],[skip],[skip],[skip],[click],[click],[click],[skip],[click]

 

On v2, I only get 1 or 2 skips as long as I go in the same direction. 

 

 

Have you tried to set the logical button setting : Encoder 12 ; Delay timer 2

Does it still drop click with delay timer set on 2 ?

Edited by F/JG300_Gruber

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The issue is that the encoder is seen like a button (for each rotation direction), but one which is on for a very short time. So it works well for actions where just one button press is enough and you don't need to hold that button pressed for a longer time.

 

But in cases in which you would want to hold that button for a longer time, if you bind that action to an encoder it won't work well (you just can't turn the encoder fast enough to compensate for the very short duration).

 

This could be fixed in software (in theory), by configuring it for multiple presses (repeat) on each activation (or longer duration). That's what I had to do with the encoder wheel from my GVL throttle (using SVMapper in my case), in order to be able to use it as zoom in Il-2 BoX. After various tests, I settled on 70 repeats for each activation for that usage as zoom. I suppose the VPC MongoosT-50 throttle encoders work the same and the issue is the same.

Edited by Seb71
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Yep, you are right, it works the same and issue is the same !

 

However AFAIK there is no settings like you have in the VPC software. There is a mode where tou can get 2 repeat per activation (encoder mode 24) but no more than that.

You also get 3 presets that influence for how long the cycle is but having looked at it again it wont help because it influence both the ON and OFF time

 

delay timer 1 > 30ms ON 30ms OFF

delay timer 2 > 60ms ON 60ms OFF

delay timer 3 > 120ms ON 120ms OFF

 

So in all cases, you are stuck at best with half the rate you would get from a regular press button.

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What would be even better would be that they implement a feature to custom tune the length of the "pulse" according to your needs

 

For example something like ON 500ms OFF 30ms for each click if you want to. That would be in my opinion an even more elegant solution than a number of repeat per activation :)

 

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