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216th_Jordan

Constant negative steam reviews are driving me nuts!

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Guest deleted@30725

Guys,

 

I appreciate the discussion and advice, but here's the situation. A couple things,

 

1. The User Manual is out of date and will be further out of date when the latest features we are working on are released later this year. I hesitate to promote something that gives inaccurate info. Luke has been writing our manuals for years and I can only ask him to do so much and our product is in a constant state of flux and it takes time to finish all the changes I am making to it. Only then can I start to make permanent helpful guides stick and in multiple languages.

 

2. Steam reviews are almost impossible to combat and whenever we asked people to help by posting rational reviews we got hammered so we stopped overtly asking for help. If everyone from this forum wrote a reasonable review and talked about what we have now accomplished this year it would help, but I can't campaign for it. I've been betrayed by so called "helpers" in the past and I don't plan on subjecting myself to any of that again.

 

3. I have ABSOLUTELY NO WAY to make a an interactive training scenario. No tech, no resources, no money and no time. We can only make some missions that are instructional, but I'd have to have a third party make it. Who wants to volunteer?

 

4. I plan to spend more time on education and community events once Kuban is done and the general design of the product is about final. In 12 months I've had to change or throw out about half of what was released originally. Takes time to change all this plus build new content we can sell you to keep the lights on. A literally lose-lose situation for us.

 

We need this community to support us by buying what we make and helping others get successfully into the cockpit and have fun. You guys are really great at this and it helps keep us alive, but looking to us to do all sorts of educational and training efforts isn't going to happen without community help. I simply don't have the time, resources or technology to make everything amazingly simple. We tried to make the sim simpler in design and it was a disaster. It's hard to make a hardcore sim accessible. There will always be a learning curve.

 

And again, I have plans to do more that will help new users, but it's just me and a few volunteer helpers. I also need to design an entirely new website etc. It's impossible to do everything I need done. And there is so much more to the story you guys don't even know about. Please just continue to help train up new flyers and write rational reviews when you can to combat the hysterical ones.

 

But thanks for the thread. It's given me some new ideas for new users.

 

Jason

 

To be brutally honest, anyone interested in the game can go to youtube and find loads of community created help and resources voiced by clear and talented individuals. It's not that I would expect there to be training or manuals from the team as what is a bunch of training manuals without a really good core game. It's the sort of tinkering that would be nice when the game is finished and content production has ceased. Honestly if people come to the forums and ask questions or search for things they are stuck they will find most topics covered. I've seen people offer their free time to join new players in game to help show them tactics and flying instruction. That kind of thing money can't buy.

 

So of course training missions and manuals would be nice finishing touches I think people who buy the game with an interest in the planes and the scenarios will help themselves. The ones who don't will just complain that life is not hand fed to them and for these people they cannot be babies in life forever.

 

Really, when it comes down to it the planes are not that complicated. I repeat that anyone with an interest in the planes will overcome the challenges the game presents.

 

I hope people look past the reviews and try the game themselves. This is one of the best flight sims for ww2 combat aircraft currently on the market, if not the best currently on the market. The game has broken a mold and for people in the West flying these Russian aircraft in such detail is a treat. By not automatically re-cycling many of the more popularized battles over Europe the game makes itself its own. A different view from a common theme.

Edited by deleted@30725

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If you look there are almost three times more positive reviews than there are negative. Also, remember that most people will only post about negatives and not positives.

 

I think this game is very very good and I play it almost daily but have I never commented about it anywhere else but this forum.

 

But you have to remember that the game is not perfect. After reading through some of the negative comments, a lot of the time I tend to agree with them or see where they are coming from, for example, I would rather the devs take time between releases to really iron out some of the kinks such as net code or a better interface.... Geez I mean most of the people that love this game are on here bashing it for x y and z all of the time.

 

Often these complaints are just about one thing and the poster has not bothered to talk about the other positives. It is just the way it is.

Edited by AeroAce

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People are frequently asking for more new aircrafts and new versions of the existing ones.

 

Does the community have the tools to create aircraft models and cockpit models, set into certain boundaries regarding polygon count & texture quality & their origin, and once one has reached sufficient quality yield them over to the devs for them to slap an FM, check it out regarding QA, and then sell them to the BoK players in a partner programm with a percentage and credits & honours to the original creator?

 

This partly open approach to modders and community creations has helped various games in the past to expand and bind their communities, while lowering risk/precosts for the devs. As long as you keep your coreskills exclusive Jason, like maps, interface, new features like a/c customizations, and FM creation as well as the integration of contenders, engine modifications and builtup, it should free ressources on other things - while boosting content creation, rollout and thus sales = new ressources.

 

It's a pretty riskfree endeavour. There is a lot of potential for expandíng monetization in many fields regarding IL-2.

Edited by 2./JG51_Fenris_Wolf
  • Upvote 1

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I think the simple fact is that, however hard it may be to face up to, this game lacks an incredible amount of polish, and gamers these days are less tolerant of roughness around the edges.

 

It's a good simulator, and I personally understand that there are often teething issues with new engines, but if you look at it objectively we have:

 

- horrible dedicated server performance

- random crash bugs that have persisted for years with no fix

- graphics bugs that have come and gone, and seriously broke the game for certain card owners

- AI problems

- random sound glitches

- a really demanding game, graphically and cpu-wise (people are accustomed to being able to run at max settings these days)

 

and on top of that, we have

 

- no community/squad/player management tools in game (only the vote ban that basically doesn't work at all)

- awful in game server browser

- no way to configure certain options that were present in the old games (icons, etc.)

- problems with cheating

 

And all this is compounded by overly-aggressive forum moderation and a dev team that, even though they're all nice people, are just frankly not so good at communicating with the community which leads to frustration.

 

Finally, after all is said and done, this game is really expensive.  To get all the content/aircraft costs serious money, whereas most gamers are now conditioned to expect games at the $59.99 US price point, or perhaps $79.99 for premium titles.  To get all the content in this game you're looking at close to $300, plus you need TrackIR/stick/pedals/etc.

 

Like I said, it's a good game but it lacks polish in a big way.  A lot of us who fly sims are used to this, because we realize that sims are huge investments, and this team in particular seems small, with a lot on their plate.  But your average gamer who started out on CSGO and tried war thunder and is now maybe thinking about picking this game up has a completely different perspective.

 

Opcode you make some Valid observations  that I agree with. But your reference to "Aggressive" Forum Moderation And  "not so good at communicating with the community " I totally disagree with. 

(1) Opcode, I don't know if you were around for the "Bannana Forums" ? Anyone here that was ,will tell how Destructive it (sometimes) was..I can understand a Game Developer setting some rules in their Forum.

(2) I have been simming for 25 years. I have Most DCS Modules. I have Combat Air Patrol. I have Arma 3...I think the BOS Devs have been  outstanding in talking to "Us". We get Regular Updates, They have Listened to us and Changed Things . They have delivered all they said in a very close timeframe !... Not "Two Weeks = Two years ". We have got what they told us we would have. (how unique in Flight-sims is that ?).

~S~

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Most steam games with great reviews are where you just jump in and have fun. Serious sims are tough - most ppl have to convince themselves that they are being entertained.

  • Upvote 1

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People are frequently asking for more new aircrafts and new versions of the existing ones.

 

Does the community have the tools to create aircraft models and cockpit models, set into certain boundaries regarding polygon count & texture quality & their origin, and once one has reached sufficient quality yield them over to the devs for them to slap an FM, check it out regarding QA, and then sell them to the BoK players in a partner programm with a percentage and credits & honours to the original creator?

 

This partly open approach to modders and community creations has helped various games in the past to expand and bind their communities, while lowering risk/precosts for the devs. As long as you keep your coreskills exclusive Jason, like maps, interface, new features like a/c customizations, and FM creation as well as the integration of contenders, engine modifications and builtup, it should free ressources on other things - while boosting content creation, rollout and thus sales = new ressources.

 

It's a pretty riskfree endeavour. There is a lot of potential for expandíng monetization in many fields regarding IL-2.

 

1) No, the tools are not available because it requires a lot of experience to build 3D models. Many were made for the old Il-2 series that had to be fixed up by the devs themselves.

 

2) The 3D model is the least time investment, the FM is the part that takes tons of time. And there is only one person building each FM.

 

So this won't help at all.

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Number 1, no.

Number 2, yes.

 

Also the LoD,s take time and specialized knowledge to implement.

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People are frequently asking for more new aircrafts and new versions of the existing ones.

 

Does the community have the tools to create aircraft models and cockpit models, set into certain boundaries regarding polygon count & texture quality & their origin, and once one has reached sufficient quality yield them over to the devs for them to slap an FM, check it out regarding QA, and then sell them to the BoK players in a partner programm with a percentage and credits & honours to the original creator?

 

This partly open approach to modders and community creations has helped various games in the past to expand and bind their communities, while lowering risk/precosts for the devs. As long as you keep your coreskills exclusive Jason, like maps, interface, new features like a/c customizations, and FM creation as well as the integration of contenders, engine modifications and builtup, it should free ressources on other things - while boosting content creation, rollout and thus sales = new ressources.

 

It's a pretty riskfree endeavour. There is a lot of potential for expandíng monetization in many fields regarding IL-2.

 

 

1C/777 have said that community mods mean loss of quality-assurance. I surmise that they think that community mods are still a lot of work for them. Of course, community mods usually have low project-management control and many simply never reach completion. Therefore, it is definitely not risk-free.

 

However, instead, 1C/777 are experimenting with contractors. I presume that this means tighter control and, with a legal framework, it lets 1C/777 share more internal details with less risk. The Po-2 and Li-2 are being built by a contractor as an experiment. If this works, then we might well see more contractors, and thus more aircraft, in future.

 

Ref:   https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/30827-i-beg-you-give-us-po-2/?p=504271  etc.

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Number 1, no.

Number 2, yes.

 

Also the LoD,s take time and specialized knowledge to implement.

 

Number 1 is true, many 3D models were built that then had to be fixed up by the devs, or were of so poor quality they were never used in the previous series.

Edited by FuriousMeow

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Number 1 is true, many 3D models were built that then had to be fixed up by the devs, or were of so poor quality they were never used in the previous series.

That's a different consideration than tools not being available though. ;)

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Never mind the LOD, modeling cockpits must be a crazy amount of work.

 

Personally I'm all for mods and open development, but that's not easy to put in place on a small budget. Chances are you would get something with the lack of focus of DCS and much worse quality overall, maybe with a few gems here and there.

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Lod's and damage levels of course take time to do. But Coconut is right, cockpits take more time than the external model. And when the aircraft is a multicrew it gets much worse.

 

I made 2 aircraft and a cockpit for the original il2 game. If I remember correctly Oleg and his 3D-dude gave me a budget of 2k triangles for the first one and 2.5k for the second. So while things back then were very simplified, a much bigger issue today will be good reference material. Finding a detailed 3-view of a ju-88 is easy, making sure it's correct is not. For the internals it gets plenty more complicated. Unless you have an opportunity to climb in to an existing aircraft and take all photos & measurements you need, or have access to original blueprints.

 

Eye-balling low res black&white photographs, then by trial and error building an accurate and correct interior is a very time consuming task. Much more so than building an equally detailed but imaginary spaceship or it's cockpit.

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Well for what it's worth I finally got around to writing my review. In case anyone is still following the thread, and is interested here's what I said :-

 

"I pre purchased this game years ago. I waited patiently for the VR patch, perhaps having up to 50 hours in game prior to VR mostly single player.
 
A lot has happened over the years. DX11, VR implementation is second to none. I now have over 700 hours in game, most of that since april.
 
I reccomend this game to pretty much anyone who has any interest at all in flying. I used to fly gliders, for 12 years of my life, I get a similar joy out of flying these warbirds in VR, as I did back when I used to fly. Combat is a thrilling bonus.
 
The game really shines in Multi Player. Community hosted servers provide some interesting dynamic ongoing battles, or stand alone conflicts over short periods of time. Do you like some instant furball action ? there are servers around that can cater for that.
 
The Flight Models, from what I can tell, are excellent. It's clear for all to see that the Dev's have put a lot of love into this game, to try and get things as accurate as they can make them. After 700 hours, I am still learning things, appreciating nuances in small details that I might not have noticed previously.
 
If anyone is sat on the fence, and has a few questions, visit the official forums and ask them there. The community is outstanding, and will be more than willing to answer them."

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Very nice, the reviews can be gamed, and should be reviewed with a bit of a salt. What the community needs is another movie red tails. This film had tremendous impact for the WT game-base, and afterwards for BOX, as people who wanted more challenging FM wanted to evolve.

Edited by JG27_Kornezov

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At least you can you can set a mark in 'funny'.  :P

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If you kick out the negative reviews about "too stupid, to create a account" you still have some standard trolling stuff and honest customer reviews. If someone give the game a red thumb for some reasons, could this be helpful for other customers to make a buying discision.

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At least you can you can set a mark in 'funny'.  :P

 

 

I'd rather not because if you downvote it to hell it hopefully won't appear in the featured reviews.

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