Jump to content
Andrej1972

I am completely hopless

Recommended Posts

Hello fellow Pilots,

 

I feel completely hopeless with this simulation. I practiced so far against bombers, but now I tried some dogfighting, and I really feel disappointed. No matter which plane I try I hoplessly outclassed by AI planes, although I did quite well in RoF. I cannot reach more than 400-450 km/h in straight level flight neither with Bf 109 nor with Yak-1, although by specification they should reach 500+ km/h at 2000-3000 m. That way I cannot catch up with enemy planes to get guns on them. If I make a turn I become hoplessly slow 300-350 km/h. Most probably I am doing something wrong....

 

I would appreciate some help. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You have to retract the landing gear!

 

Jokes aside, what engine settings are you using? what 109 model are you flying?

Are you pulling too hard on the stick?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Everyone has been there every once in a while, no sweat :)

 

Are you trimming the aircraft well for the flight regime you want? Fast, level flight will usually demand some nose down trim, and in the Yak-1 you need to close the radiators slightly to get every bit of speed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I too, suck bottoms in this game. I adore it but I rarely finish a mission. Both in Normal and advanced.

 

Id say we both really need to practice more! :)

 

There's a bunch of good youtube tutorials out there for new flyers o il2 BoX and they should still hold true even with the new FM.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Most important info to begin with: What are your difficulty settings?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I use both F4 and G2 for pacticing. Engine management is easier on Bf 109, and I also like better German cockpit gauges, but vision is much better in Soviet fighters. Now tried your tips guys, and it looks really that this is all about gentle stick handling and trimming. Now I can easily reach 550 km/h with Bf 109, and now I can achive a high speed turn with about 500 km/h. Even with continuous engine mode I can reach 510 km/h in level flight with proper trimming. It looks that so far I did not apply enough nose down trim for level turning, my nose "went up to the sky", and I lost a lot of speed. This is completely different from RoF, where sharp turns were the key. ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Being gentile on the stick is, I think, one of the hardest skills to pick up when starting out. Especially in a dogfight. You might look into your sensitivity settings as well, they can have a huge impact on plane control and performance. Paradoxically, in my mind anyway, the higher sensitivities seem to work better for most people with most sticks. I myself have settled around the mid 70% range for both vertical and roll. Play with them a bit and see what feels right for you. It may take a little while, though; I spent about 30 min tuning them myself and probably have to do it again with these new flight models.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Being gentile on the stick is, I think, one of the hardest skills to pick up when starting out. Especially in a dogfight. You might look into your sensitivity settings as well, they can have a huge impact on plane control and performance. Paradoxically, in my mind anyway, the higher sensitivities seem to work better for most people with most sticks. I myself have settled around the mid 70% range for both vertical and roll. Play with them a bit and see what feels right for you. It may take a little while, though; I spent about 30 min tuning them myself and probably have to do it again with these new flight models.

 

Again an excellent hint! I set the sensitivity to 70% and now it feels much more comfortable. What about dead zone setting mate?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dead zone depends largely on your stick. I have a fairly stiff stick so I use very little dead zone. I suppose the best thing to do would be apply enough dead zone so that just resting your hand on the stick doesn't result in moving your plane and not so much that you have to move too much in order to get desired movement. I use rudder pedals as well so I can't comment much on rudder sensitivity and dead zone for twist sticks, but from what I recall if when I did fly with a twist rudder that dead zone had to be larger than my aileron and elevator dead zones or else I'd find myself adding rudder without meaning to

Edited by Disarray

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Speaking of rudder, what would be the sensitivity here? Similar to elevator and aileron? At least according to your experience.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

With a twist stick you generally need more of a curve on rudder than the other axis.

Edited by Finkeren

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

With a twist stick you generally need more of a curve on rudder than the other axis.

But does this mean higher, or lower sensitivity by game terms?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But does this mean higher, or lower sensitivity by game terms?

Lower sensitivity (which means higher percentage number)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lower sensitivity (which means higher percentage number)

Ok, so if I have 70-70% elevator and aileron, then rudder ptobably 80-85%, right? :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jump on Berloga, and just keep dying until you figure it out.  Trying to learn messing with the AI vs. trying to learn against people fighting the same forces/damage model/SA that you are is far more effective, you just gotta check your ego at the door or you're gonna have a bad time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Realize that "sensitivity" is just another name for Calibration Curve...you are trading a higher precision around the center of the stick for proportionately less sensitivity at great deflections.  I think a certain amount of Curve is ok, given that our joystick handles are very short compared to real life airplane sticks, but wow, 70% seems pretty excessive.  You go from the realm of too small of a joystick movement to way too much very quickly, and I hate that.  The closer you can get to linearity in your joystick and rudder throws, the better, imo.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, any sensitivity above 40% is too much, even for rudder. You'll have no control at all at the extremes of deflection.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, any sensitivity above 40% is too much, even for rudder. You'll have no control at all at the extremes of deflection.

Probably that is also personal preference. I'll experiment with different values. Now I pulled it down to 50%, and tomorrow I will try other settings. One thing is sure for me 0% is not right for me, it makes aiming and shooting impossible.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

After 2.012 update I finally removed the last curves from my controls, but up until last week I still had 25% on all controls.

 

I definitely understand the need for better precission close to center and lower settings in the 20-30% range have only a small negative impact on controlability at the extremes, but above 40% the impact really starts to become apparent.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not sure if you are aware:

 

What you see on your speed gauge is 'Indicated Airspeed' this is different from 'True Airspeed' Which you will only get at ground level. At altitude you speed gauge will always show less than your actual speed due to the lower density of air.

Edited by 216th_Jordan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What you see on your speed gauge is 'Indicated Airspeed' this is different from 'True Airspeed' Which you will only get at ground level. At altitude you speed gauge will always show less than your actual speed due to the lower density of air.

This one is clear, but between 500-1000 m there is no big difference.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As far as dogfighting tips go... I found it helpful to read some pilot accounts of what they did and combine that with basic air combat maneuvering (ACM) much of which is similar to WWI (and even in the jet era) just at higher speeds and wider turns compared to bi-planes.

 

Despite the cheesy nature and occasionally poor animation, the History Channel Dogfight series which you can usually find on YouTube sometimes helped me refine some of my techniques. Much of the time you are driven by the desire to get the enemy in your gunsight and pull the trigger. I advise playing the longer game and learned that watching various series and reading notes. The lead pursuit method (bringing nose to bear almost immediately) is not always preferable. Sometimes you should play the long game and go lag pursuit or if you have enough speed, go for a high overhead roll or a high yo-yo to put you in position for a shot later on. This makes for more efficient flying maximizing your speed and putting you in a better position in a few moments rather than right now.

 

The other thing is I try and perfect my aim. I want to land the kill shot in the first burst. I don't want my opponent to have a chance to get away. So I practice gunnery a lot.

 

I try and live by all of that. Patience is key but aim is important.  :cool:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest deleted@30725

I use both F4 and G2 for pacticing. Engine management is easier on Bf 109, and I also like better German cockpit gauges, but vision is much better in Soviet fighters. Now tried your tips guys, and it looks really that this is all about gentle stick handling and trimming. Now I can easily reach 550 km/h with Bf 109, and now I can achive a high speed turn with about 500 km/h. Even with continuous engine mode I can reach 510 km/h in level flight with proper trimming. It looks that so far I did not apply enough nose down trim for level turning, my nose "went up to the sky", and I lost a lot of speed. This is completely different from RoF, where sharp turns were the key. ;)

 

Wasn't ROF biplanes that handle like go-carts, but are overall slow? The more modern ww2 planes handle a lot different and will take time to get used to.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wasn't ROF biplanes that handle like go-carts, but are overall slow? The more modern ww2 planes handle a lot different and will take time to get used to.

 

Let me tell you...that Sopwith Camel is anything but a go kart. That thing wants to kill me approximately 75% of the time. The other 25% of the time its one of the deadliest fighters in WWI :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wasn't ROF biplanes that handle like go-carts, but are overall slow? The more modern ww2 planes handle a lot different and will take time to get used to.

 

That was what I was going to say - in WW1 aircraft you can nose up and whip round with the rudder almost like a skateboarder using a bump in the road. You accelerate back to full speed, such as it is, in no time.  WW2 aircraft are much faster and heavier - so all manoeuvring is much slower.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey bud. I started playing combat flight sims at 8, in 1997. Red Baron II. I started flying with a good wingleader, and I still suck to this day. 

https://youtu.be/4ciHwwRCeBw?t=843 coordinated turn practice - wwii training vid

Seriously, try dutch rolls/coordination rolls as rudder exercises. Roll/bank 45 degrees back and forth around a point, keeping your nose on the same heading with rudder. Dont think about it, just do it.

Edited by 2./JG51_Hobo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have checked this morning, and something is wrong with my joystick calibration. I am using a T16000M, and when I enter the game, and I go to settings to see joystick axis, I see the image below.

 

http://postimg.org/image/vgdlnfhdh/4ab1a709/

 

More precisely, in the beginning the elevator symbol is in the middle, but after a full up dow movement of the stick (then releasing) the symbol is not in the middle any more. All other axis are fine. Is there any way to fine tune that? I found nothing about this in the manual.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have checked this morning, and something is wrong with my joystick calibration. I am using a T16000M, and when I enter the game, and I go to settings to see joystick axis, I see the image below.

 

http://postimg.org/image/vgdlnfhdh/4ab1a709/

 

More precisely, in the beginning the elevator symbol is in the middle, but after a full up dow movement of the stick (then releasing) the symbol is not in the middle any more. All other axis are fine. Is there any way to fine tune that? I found nothing about this in the manual.

You can calibrate your joystick under Windows in the Game Controllers panel.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have checked this morning, and something is wrong with my joystick calibration. I am using a T16000M, and when I enter the game, and I go to settings to see joystick axis, I see the image below.

 

http://postimg.org/image/vgdlnfhdh/4ab1a709/

 

More precisely, in the beginning the elevator symbol is in the middle, but after a full up dow movement of the stick (then releasing) the symbol is not in the middle any more. All other axis are fine. Is there any way to fine tune that? I found nothing about this in the manual.

 

 

Hmm seems more like a hardware error to me. can you confirm that in the windows device manager and looking at your joystick settings?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Or... leave the fighters to chase themselves and join the dark side of flying ground attack. Sure, it's not as glamorous or prestigious but it's every bit as exciting and as much of a test of concentration and awareness as ACM.

 

Screaming in 50ft off the deck with one engine on fire, trying to keep in station with your wingman while lining up a bomb run through a curtain of flak, and looking back over your shoulder to see that you've obliterated the target and now have to work out how to get home again is when this sim really comes alive.

And there's no rush of adrenaline quite like the one you get when you're sure that the sky is clear and you take a few seconds to check your compass, and then your gunner opens up behind you...

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is really getting very boring and frustrating with AI enemy fighters. The only maneuver they do is constant left or right 280-300 km turn without loosing energy, or overheating the engine, without any chance to get closer to them. This is pretty ridiculous. :(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is really getting very boring and frustrating with AI enemy fighters. The only maneuver they do is constant left or right 280-300 km turn without loosing energy, or overheating the engine, without any chance to get closer to them. This is pretty ridiculous. :(

If you fight against novice AI their fighting is pretty uninspired - as it should be. Try veteran level, it's not that hard, but you'll get more variety.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest deleted@30725

If you fight against novice AI their fighting is pretty uninspired - as it should be. Try veteran level, it's not that hard, but you'll get more variety.

 

You know, I've never tried the other AI levels. I just assumed based on the novice level that they did the same maneuvers, but harder.

Edited by deleted@30725

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is really getting very boring and frustrating with AI enemy fighters. The only maneuver they do is constant left or right 280-300 km turn without loosing energy, or overheating the engine, without any chance to get closer to them. This is pretty ridiculous. :(

 

The only thing that is ridiculous here is your post.  Put them on Ace - they will zoom climb if you get behind them, invert and dive to the deck, slow down and try to scissors.  Do not blame the game just because you suck at it.

 

edit - My apologies. Bad day etc, but no excuse. No forum for me for a week.   But do put them on ace though - they might surprise you.  And they are much better shots than we can ever be.

Edited by unreasonable

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest deleted@30725

Either way the game should be fun, if the AI is not fun then going against real players online is the way to go :salute:

 

Even being bad at the game can be fun, part of getting better is going through that phase where you wonder if you'll ever be good at it and then one day you just start shooting stuff down and landing without issue and you'll be like 'wow, I could hardly fly to begin with!' :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...