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MrFies

FW 190A3-5 Weapons in BoS

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Yes I've seen the handbook, thanks.

 

It does not, however, demonstrate that fighter "normaljager" A-5 was shipped from the factory without the outer cannons already installed. (it actually doesn't make any sense that they would be shipped without them)

 

It is much more likely that they were delivered fully armed from the factory with the option to remove them at the unit level.

 

Either way, it's an interesting topic to discuss, but ultimately not that big of a deal as it pertains to the sim. 

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my 2 cents to the situation. I chatted with some guys under a video from the Flying Heritage & Combat Armor Museum, the one with the only flying original A5 left, and thex told me, that the A5 came standard with the 2 Mg/FFs, but most Pilots had them removed. The A5 that they have doesnt have those cannons either, but was delivered with them from the factory.

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my 2 cents to the situation. I chatted with some guys under a video from the Flying Heritage & Combat Armor Museum, the one with the only flying original A5 left, and thex told me, that the A5 came standard with the 2 Mg/FFs, but most Pilots had them removed. The A5 that they have doesnt have those cannons either, but was delivered with them from the factory.

 

 

Exactly the same situation with the IAR-81C "dive bomber".  All planes from serial #309 to #449 were delivered with the diving equipment installed and most of them were used as fighters, with the central bomb trapeze removed at the unit. But the original configuration was "dive bomber".

Edited by Jaws2002

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Both are right then, innit? All aircraft came like that from the factory thus the full set of cannons is the default off the production line, but the default frontline setting was to remove them bar exceptional uses per regiment.

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Yes I've seen the handbook, thanks.   It does not, however, demonstrate that fighter "normaljager" A-5 was shipped from the factory without the outer cannons already installed. (it actually doesn't make any sense that they would be shipped without them)

 

Following Your logic, Bf109G-2/R6 with additional two MG151/20 under wings is also a normal fighter and having 3 x 20mm guns for Bf109G-2 is a default variant, shipping from factory.

 

Manual clearly states, that MG-FF/M's were Rustsatze, i.e. a modification. Default was 2 x 7.92mm + 2 x 20mm. 

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Do we have any factory or Air Ministry test curves for the A-3 or A-5 that tell us how the aircraft was configured prior to testing?  

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Rüstsätze are modifications that can be taken out or added or exchanged for something else. They are not things that are out by default and are being added on as some sort of modification. Nomenclature doesn't help here, in particular because German military nomenclature during WW2 was not as anal as some appear to think it was.

 

Personally I think the developers made the right choice about leaving the MGFF out in the standard version, but I also know that this is just personal preference/point of view. There is no historically 'right' or historically 'wrong' definition of them being in or out as 'standard'.

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Rüstsätze are modifications that can be taken out or added or exchanged for something else. They are not things that are out by default and are being added on as some sort of modification. Nomenclature doesn't help here, in particular because German military nomenclature during WW2 was not as anal as some appear to think it was.

 

 

 

Now this actually makes sense. Agreed.

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You guys are wrong. Understandable, because you don't speak German. "Rüstsatz" does not mean anything additional. It means "modular" in this context, so it can be removed! It is standard issue!

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I found this two A-5 test results in the bunch i collected over time. The first one is a reclin test of FW-190A5 "normal fighter", and it was tested with four cannons and 90 round drums in the MG-FF cannons. The second image shows the evolution of the plane from A5 to A6 and then to A8. It doesn't show the armament of the A5, but in the A6 column it shows that the MG-FF was replaced with MG151. That means the MG-FF was part of the normal equipment of the A5 represented in this test.

 

 Just because some pilots removed the outer cannons, that doesn't change the standard configuration of the aircraft. 

 

fw190_A5_speed.gif

 

71124_FW190_APerformance.jpg

 

Now I'm curious if our A5  with four guns and the 90 round drums matches this performance.

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You guys are wrong. Understandable, because you don't speak German. "Rüstsatz" does not mean anything additional. It means "modular" in this context, so it can be removed! It is standard issue!

 

 

I remember reading about this few years ago. "Rüstsatz" means standard modular equipment and field modifications was called something else.

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I found this two A-5 test results in the bunch i collected over time. The first one is a reclin test of FW-190A5 "normal fighter", and it was tested with four cannons and 90 round drums in the MG-FF cannons. The second image shows the evolution of the plane from A5 to A6 and then to A8. It doesn't show the armament of the A5, but in the A6 column it shows that the MG-FF was replaced with MG151. That means the MG-FF was part of the normal equipment of the A5 represented in this test.

 

 Just because some pilots removed the outer cannons, that doesn't change the standard configuration of the aircraft. 

 

fw190_A5_speed.gif

 

71124_FW190_APerformance.jpg

 

Now I'm curious if our A5  with four guns and the 90 round drums matches this performance.

 

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/fw190/fw190a5.html

 

5 tests here (among others) are done with 4 cannon loadouts for A-5. Top speeds range from 348-352 mph on the deck in this configuration. (have not tested in 2.012)

 

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Radiator closed, full fuel, four cannons, Kuban spring map,  I got 570km/h at around ten meters above the water.

 

So it's spot on. :salute:

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Radiator closed, full fuel, four cannons, Kuban spring map,  I got 570km/h at around ten meters above the water.

 

So it's spot on. :salute:

 

Very nice! Hadn't had a chance to test yet, so that is good news.

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Radiator closed, full fuel, four cannons, Kuban spring map,  I got 570km/h at around ten meters above the water.

 

So it's spot on. :salute:

Very well!  :salute:

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