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Daedallus

How this 'game' could save your life

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I came home from shopping to find a bedroom door open on the 1st floor, I live alone so something was wrong, I started up the stairs and 2 steps from the top a man in his late 30s with a shaved head appeared from round the corner.

 

My 1st thought was this is a nightmare, but then the instincts from flying IL2, RoF, and BoS for 2 hours every day for 15 years kicked in, I thought he has an altitude advantage, I have to take it away from him (I have also learnt if you take the initiative and do something unexpected, that's half the battle) so I leapt at him and tried to get him below me on the stairs, but it's an old house with steep narrow stairs, and he was stronger and fitter than me, I'm in my 60s.

 

So we came down the stairs like a couple of crabs and when we got to the bottom he threw a punch and tried to kick me in the groin, but he telegraphed his moves and I stepped in while he was off balance and punched him square in the face which shocked and stunned him. It was then he said "get back, I've got a knife, I'll stab you." The police asked me if he reached for anything, but all I was thinking was I need a weapon, so I picked up my thick wooden walking stick and set about his head with it, trying to knock him out, but he had a very thick skull, and he ran off needing a few stitches in his scalp.  :wacko:

 

The burglar was later arrested and did have a knife with a 6 inch blade on him.

 

So, if like me you have ever had family or friends tell you that you fly too much, this story might keep them quiet for a while  :biggrin:

 

And a big thx to all the mission makers and skinners out there, you do great work and it is appreciated.

 

Regards

 

Daedallus

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dunno what to say....

 

From your story.

 

This game taught you how to fight,at least the fighting spirit....

 

this is still a matter of luck.

 

Cheers....

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Well done, paint one burglar on your tail fin. 

 

However: in UK? If so, the police were asking you if the burglar reached for anything because they were thinking of arresting you for assault, the mere threat of being stabbed being potentially insufficient, in their eyes, to justify a reasonable person hitting someone with a walking stick, especially as you had moved towards the burglar rather than away from him.  Absurd, but there it is. My advice is to delete this thread and think carefully about what you are going to say if you are called to give evidence if this miscreant is ever brought before a court.

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Well most people says "games" simulators whatever you call these softwares are on the same level as dotty balls etc. Softwares like IL2 teaches you how to read a map, how to plan your next move etc. But people who says and think that, they dont know anything about gaming, especially about sims.
My statement is, if you recognized a dangerous situation(just like in IL2 BoX) and you knew what to do, is the greatest thing what a game can teach to anyone.
I'm glad you are okay.

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I'm glad you're ok. but reading Unreasonable's post I think you should do as he said. for your sake  :salute:

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Well done, paint one burglar on your tail fin. 

 

However: in UK? If so, the police were asking you if the burglar reached for anything because they were thinking of arresting you for assault, the mere threat of being stabbed being potentially insufficient, in their eyes, to justify a reasonable person hitting someone with a walking stick, especially as you had moved towards the burglar rather than away from him.  Absurd, but there it is. My advice is to delete this thread and think carefully about what you are going to say if you are called to give evidence if this miscreant is ever brought before a court.

IN the UK you can defend your home within reason. I'd say wacking him over the head with a stick when the guy said he has a weapon is more than reasonable, what you cant do is chase a robber away form your home and then beat him to death on the pavement.

 

There were some rule clarifications a few years back after a few simlar incidents and it was clarified that you're allowed to use reasonable force to defend yourself and your your home.

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Wow, crazy story.   You certainly had some guts taking him on!

 

IL2 definitely has real world advantages.  When I play often, my situational awareness and reflexes skyrocket while driving IRL.  I'm just that much more focused and able to process far more information.

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IN the UK you can defend your home within reason. I'd say wacking him over the head with a stick when the guy said he has a weapon is more than reasonable, what you cant do is chase a robber away form your home and then beat him to death on the pavement.

 

There were some rule clarifications a few years back after a few simlar incidents and it was clarified that you're allowed to use reasonable force to defend yourself and your your home.

 

I know there were some rule changes - not before time IMHO, the law used to be that even in your home you had to retreat from a threat until you were physically incapable of retreating anymore, and even then you could not use more force than was being used against you.  The problem still is, what is "reasonable" is an objective test, so what you or I may think might not be what a policeman, magistrate or jury might think. Poor burglar, has human rights, society's fault etc.  Why take a chance?  I am not a lawyer, just a skeptic.  ;) 

 

I may be reflecting an outdated view from the old days when people used to cheer Charles Bronson in the cinema during the Death Wish films because they were so sick of criminal scum and their lawyers.   

 

Anyway, I thoroughly approve of the OP's actions, and wish him all the best. 

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Edited by RAY-EU

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I think this is sort of the gist, if you play games that encourage SA and you carry that awareness into reality.

 

Yes, this a "gun-guy" video but the main idea behind it is not really gun specific, but about SA and other things, and is very interesting.  

 

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Wow, crazy story. You certainly had some guts taking him on!

 

IL2 definitely has real world advantages. When I play often, my situational awareness and reflexes skyrocket while driving IRL. I'm just that much more focused and able to process far more information.

+1

And I am also glad you are ok

S!

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Wow, crazy story.   You certainly had some guts taking him on!

 

IL2 definitely has real world advantages.  When I play often, my situational awareness and reflexes skyrocket while driving IRL.  I'm just that much more focused and able to process far more information.

 

+1 I was going to say the same thing. I honestly believe that playing flight sims definitely improves my situational awareness while driving, and multi-tasking i.e checking speed/mirrors etc while concentrating on driving; heck, if I can check speed, altitude, oil temps and pressure, and check for bandits, all while flying, I should be able to manage driving :) Not sure the wife would believe any of this though!

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^Riding a motorcycle for a period of time helps you out with general driving SA, if you ride as if you are "invisible" you are much more aware of your surroundings. 

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Guest deleted@30725

I honestly would have run away, but BOS has taught me if the odds are against you - disengage to live for another fight.

Edited by deleted@30725

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Accepting the role of victim rarely works out well for the victim. Well done.

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I think everyone wonders how they'll react in a similar situation if and when it happens to them. I'm glad you kept your cool and everything worked out safely for you.

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The story would have been more relevant to flight simulation if the burglar had run away whining about your Uber-walking stick and the poor damage model of his skull. :biggrin:

Edited by Iceworm
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Flight sims also teach us how to shoot straight. In the US we can shoot burglars.

 

Although being a hunter for 60 years. I already knew how to shoot.

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Similar issue. I was awake playing IL-2 MP while the GF was asleep at 2AM when I heard a smashing/ripping sound. Turned out to be a burglar cutting through my screened in deck. Probably would've been easier to have simply opened the door, but hey.  :dry:  Criminals = rocket scientists.

 

Being an ex-pat Kiwi now living in the States I pulled my Sig M11, saw him standing on my deck with his knife and fired three rounds. Of course being half asleep and somewhat tipsy (thanks Becks) I missed all but one that grazed his abdomen. The local PD caught the guy after he checked himself into hospital with a gunshot wound. Turns out he had burglarized the three houses next to me, stabbed one resident while she was sleeping, and was wanted on four counts of murder in Mexico and one in Arizona.

 

So thank you IL-2. And of course the Castle Doctrine. 

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Retrofly and unreasonable are sort of right, the main thing being that in terms of UK law you're fine, Daedallus.

Self-defence under UK law is a complete defence, so if you are found to have acted in self defence then you are acquitted of all charges that it is used as a defence against. Albeit it only applies to yourself and not your home or possessions.

 

The thing with it though is that it has to be decided by a jury, you can't claim "that was self-defence", you have to say "I believe this was" and they say whether they agree with you.

That's because to meet the definition you have to believe that you used reasonable force, and the theory is that you can't decide for yourself what constitutes 'reasonable' as you will believe that you did, as that's why you used that level of force in the first place.

 

However, for all this to apply you have to be in a court of law which means that the complainant will have brought charges against you which you'll be defending against, which sounds unlikely.

And even if that is the case, based on your description, I can't see that a jury would fail to uphold the claim of reasonable force in self-defence.

 

So, caveated by saying that this does not constitute actual legal advice to rely on, the TL;DR is that you're fine and don't worry.

And good to know that Il-2 has made you a more formidable opponent on the stairs as well as in the air.

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Brits have some strange laws. Since when does a burglar have any rights when he's in your house? He's there to steal your property and hurt you.

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Glad your ok Daedallus. Scary stuff. 

 

Unreasonable ,with respect, your statements are grossly uninformed.. The question was asked because there is a need to prove the harm and culpability levels of the offence. If we are in the UK this is likely to be crimed as aggravated burglary. This is a serious offence with sentencing ranging from a year to life. It wasn't asked to catch the aggrieved party out but to establish the facts for a court to later decide upon. 

 

The offence has 3 categories with differing tariffs. Entering a premises with a weapon is very serious  but needs to be well proven.  To prove Category 1 aggravated burglary (amongst other things) the offence should have a high degree of harm (threats,especially with weapon, damage, loss, injury etc) AND a high degree of culpability (pre- planning, targeted, entering with a weapon etc) - without definitive proof that a knife was present at the time of burglary  (hence the question from the Officer) it is more difficult, but not impossible to prove and the corresponding tariff is likely to be lower (although there are many other factors to be considered at sentencing)

 

So please still the unqualified opinion and don't put needless worry onto the OP. The balance of what is reasonable is summed up  and put into context well by Royal_Flight. 

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Yeah here in the US if someone breaks in and is threatening you, your life or your family's you can shoot them. Stand your ground and use deadly force IF they have a weapon and show it. A shot or two center mass. Brits laws are different because they can't own handguns (so I'm told). Good for you for getting the guy out and glad you're ok. And the game does give you better real life SA!

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Brits have some strange laws. Since when does a burglar have any rights when he's in your house? He's there to steal your property and hurt you.

 

Our laws are not strange but are established to deter anyone causing malicious harm to anyone disproportionate to the threat. Its not a difficult concept. 

 

Yeah here in the US if someone breaks in and is threatening you, your life or your family's you can shoot them. Stand your ground and use deadly force IF they have a weapon and show it. A shot or two center mass. Brits laws are different because they can't own handguns (so I'm told). Good for you for getting the guy out and glad you're ok. And the game does give you better real life SA!

 

English law is not different because we cant own guns. It has nothing to do with owning guns. We have never routinely owned guns as a mass populace. 

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Our laws are not strange but are established to deter anyone causing malicious harm to anyone disproportionate to the threat. Its not a difficult concept. 

 

 

English law is not different because we cant own guns. It has nothing to do with owning guns. We have never routinely owned guns as a mass populace. 

 

The problem with said laws mate is that the victim of a crime or crimes is often faced with the same legal punishments as that of the instigator, should he/she fight back against said attacker. In the UK that is, otherwise causing severe bodily harm or killing the instigator. The same can't be said for the likes of my home country of New Zealand or Australia, Germany, France, Austria, Denmark, Norway, US, Czech Rep. the Netherlands or a great many others. If you're a victim of a crime and you subdue said attacker, whether lethally or otherwise, you aren't going to be charged for defending yourself.

 

The same couldn't be said for me if I was walking down Craven Park and was stabbed, but wrestled the knife away and killed the mugger. I'd probably be charged with murder. Could be why the UK ranked #1 as the most violent country in Europe with violent assaults exceeding that of the Germany, France and the US combined for almost five straight years.  ;)

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My wife is from Poland and it's worse there. You have no right to defend yourself. You're just supposed to let them take what they want and leave. If you injure the criminal you can go to prison as well. One of the reasons I'm glad I live in Texas.

 

Well done to both of you. As was said before, accepting the role of a victim rarely works out for the victim. Since we are all war history buffs here I'm sure we all know it.

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Our laws are not strange but are established to deter anyone causing malicious harm to anyone disproportionate to the threat. Its not a difficult concept. 

 

 

 

 

They are for an American. We don't treat the bad guy as an equal. He lost his rights when he entered the house. When he threatened he had a knife he was open game.

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I came home from shopping to find a bedroom door open on the 1st floor, I live alone so something was wrong, I started up the stairs and 2 steps from the top a man in his late 30s with a shaved head appeared from round the corner.

 

My 1st thought was this is a nightmare, but then the instincts from flying IL2, RoF, and BoS for 2 hours every day for 15 years kicked in, I thought he has an altitude advantage, I have to take it away from him (I have also learnt if you take the initiative and do something unexpected, that's half the battle) so I leapt at him and tried to get him below me on the stairs, but it's an old house with steep narrow stairs, and he was stronger and fitter than me, I'm in my 60s.

 

So we came down the stairs like a couple of crabs and when we got to the bottom he threw a punch and tried to kick me in the groin, but he telegraphed his moves and I stepped in while he was off balance and punched him square in the face which shocked and stunned him. It was then he said "get back, I've got a knife, I'll stab you." The police asked me if he reached for anything, but all I was thinking was I need a weapon, so I picked up my thick wooden walking stick and set about his head with it, trying to knock him out, but he had a very thick skull, and he ran off needing a few stitches in his scalp.  :wacko:

 

The burglar was later arrested and did have a knife with a 6 inch blade on him.

 

So, if like me you have ever had family or friends tell you that you fly too much, this story might keep them quiet for a while  :biggrin:

 

And a big thx to all the mission makers and skinners out there, you do great work and it is appreciated.

 

Regards

 

Daedallus

 

That's a wild story. I'm glad you're ok dude. I'm your typical American packing heat as well, but I live in The People's Republic of California so I hope I never have to use it. But would rather be tried by 12 then carried by 6 as they say.

 

I think the moral of the story is that the best pilot with the best tactics can overcome an enemy with more deadly weapons.

 

My father was murdered and my little brother suffered a home invasion where they stole my dad's prized gun collection. I hate crime and criminals with a passion. I thought about going into law enforcement when I was younger, but man I'd beat criminals silly given the chance and every time I get called for jury duty I'm declared unfit to serve. LOL Petty crime is rampant in California these days and there are no consequences for stealing stuff and doing drugs. Insane policies here. Please buy more copies of the game so I can leave CA and move to a quiet beach somewhere.  

 

Jason

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That's a wild story. I'm glad you're ok dude. I'm your typical American packing heat as well, but I live in The People's Republic of California so I hope I never have to use it. But would rather be tried by 12 then carried by 6 as they say.

 

I think the moral of the story is that the best pilot with the best tactics can overcome an enemy with more deadly weapons.

 

My father was murdered and my little brother suffered a home invasion where they stole my dad's prized gun collection. I hate crime and criminals with a passion. I thought about going into law enforcement when I was younger, but man I'd beat criminals silly given the chance and every time I get called for jury duty I'm declared unfit to serve. LOL Petty crime is rampant in California these days and there are no consequences for stealing stuff and doing drugs. Insane policies here. Please buy more copies of the game so I can leave CA and move to a quiet beach somewhere.  

 

Jason

 

Definitely the better option to be tried in court than dead. Hope you can one day move down here to Texas where those kind of rules wont hinder you protecting yourself.

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The law here maybe seems strange if you're unused to them, but in practice I think we strike the balance fairly well and it's due to the way that self-defence is what is called a 'complete defence'.

So you hit someone with a stick and they get a cut, that could be considered as assault occasioning actual bodily harm. But if the jury finds that you were acting in self-defence then that's it sorted and you aren't prosecuted, you get to walk out of court.

If you had pushed him down the stairs and he had been killed, that would be manslaughter. But again, jury finds it was self-defense and you're in the clear.

If you poke him and he gets a bruise, or if you grab the ceremonial katana on the mantelpiece and cut him in half then as long as the jury finds that whatever you did was reasonable in the circumstances then you're acquitted.

If you chased him into the street and then hit him after catching up a few streets away, then that likely won't be found reasonable.

 

There are cases where owners of legally-held firearms have discharged them at an intruder and it has been found reasonable and they have been acquitted, also. I think the perception of the law in the UK being soft is true in a lot of cases, for a variety of different conflicting reasons.

But by and large, it strikes a reasonable balance.

 

Sorry for the massive blocks of text, but especially in light of Jason's story, you should never feel like defending yourself is not worth the risk. Better judged by 12 etc.

 

Jason - I'm sorry to hear that, it should never happen to anyone.

And Daedallus, I don't know if you fly in multiplayer but if I see you coming towards me I think I'll just get out of the way.

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The problem with said laws mate is that the victim of a crime or crimes is often faced with the same legal punishments as that of the instigator, should he/she fight back against said attacker. In the UK that is, otherwise causing severe bodily harm or killing the instigator. The same can't be said for the likes of my home country of New Zealand or Australia, Germany, France, Austria, Denmark, Norway, US, Czech Rep. the Netherlands or a great many others. If you're a victim of a crime and you subdue said attacker, whether lethally or otherwise, you aren't going to be charged for defending yourself.

 

The same couldn't be said for me if I was walking down Craven Park and was stabbed, but wrestled the knife away and killed the mugger. I'd probably be charged with murder. Could be why the UK ranked #1 as the most violent country in Europe with violent assaults exceeding that of the Germany, France and the US combined for almost five straight years.  ;)

 

Detcord - "the victim of crime is often faced with the same legal punishments as that of the instigator" - where is your evidence for this? 

 

Uk ranked No1. Crime stats are recorded differently in all countries. We have more categorises of violence than the US for instance. We have wider definitions of rape. You are comparing apples and oranges.

 

But whilst we are throwing stats about.. The year ending in March 2017 the UK had just under 700 murders in total. In the year 2016 the US had over 15,000. There are stats that show that just the percentage increase of violent crime in the US exceed the total for the UK in some areas. Even taking into account the differences in population size (65M v 323M) the US still far outstrips the Uk in most violent crime. But nothing is as simple as stats. Murder amongst gangs and social/economic deprivation factors will all the swing the US stats.............just as differing definitions of crime will in the UK.  

 

And if you had wrestled the knife away and then killed the mugger......no I'm sorry - if he was still a threat and had stabbed you would not be prosecuted. If you staggered after him and knifed him the back - a different consideration. Like I said - its not a difficult concept

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And Daedallus, I don't know if you fly in multiplayer but if I see you coming towards me I think I'll just get out of the way.

A wise decision. Daedulus always manages to shoot me down even when I think I have an advantage

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I think this is sort of the gist, if you play games that encourage SA and you carry that awareness into reality.

 

Yes, this a "gun-guy" video but the main idea behind it is not really gun specific, but about SA and other things, and is very interesting.  

 

Hey I know you

So many fellow Texans. :)

And I know you

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