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ayousry

How do you identify friendly and enemy aircrafts in VR?!

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Hi

 

How do you Vr guys identify friendly from enemy aircrafts in expert mode specially during escort missions?!

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Go on Teamspeak.

 

Give unidentified aircraft a squirt.

 

If you hear lots or swearing and somebody screaming blue murder, quickly turn around, run away and pretend it was the big boy hiding behind the cloud that did it ..............."Honest".

 

Failing that, hang around enemy airfield and pick off the low hanging fruit as they take off or land.

Edited by HagarTheHorrible

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I don't have a VR, but I remember someone told me that zoom-in function works on VR, right?

 

It helps, but not a lot and not overly at a tactical positioning level.

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As a never-even-tried-it VR person can I ask, would it be fair to say that VR isn't fit for the CFS-as-a-competitive-sport simmer, but more for the wow-I'm-flying-a-fantastic-old-warbird-in-a-beautiful-environment kind of simmer?

 

If so, would it be great for SP and MP coops? (Really hoping for feedback to help justify putting my kids on a bread and water diet for a month so I can "invest" in an Oculus Thingy.)

Edited by No601_Swallow

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It helps, but not a lot and not overly at a tactical positioning level.

That means the Zoom-in on VR is different to that on screen?

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Id say us VR types are at a disadvantage to a decent track ir player.

 

In SP its amazing. Coop i can see it being fun too.

 

It also has some benefits but not enough to be a killer device competition wise.

 

Although i do suck in MP.

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Id say us VR types are at a disadvantage to a decent track ir player.

 

Although i do suck in MP.

 

 

Orlok nailed it.. :D

 

There is a 'VR in multiplayer" thread with lot's of info and experience on the subject. Long story short, in many ways it's and advantage and in others not so much.

 

If anything I recommmend you try it before starving your kids. 

 

 

 

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As a never-even-tried-it VR person can I ask, would it be fair to say that VR isn't fit for the CFS-as-a-competitive-sport simmer, but more for the wow-I'm-flying-a-fantastic-old-warbird-in-a-beautiful-environment kind of simmer?

 

If so, would it be great for SP and MP coops? (Really hoping for feedback to help justify putting my kids on a bread and water diet for a month so I can "invest" in an Oculus Thingy.)

 

That's exactly right.

 

As a SP player it's mind blowing, but the difficulty spotting and low resolution is a problem when all you want is to get an amazing K/D ratio on MP.

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I've been waiting a long time for BoS to support VR, I had very few flying hours, as gorgeous as IL2 is, until VR arrived, and now I can't stop playing. Think my stats on WoL are in the region of 40 kills, + 3 friendlies. 

Spotting is ok, but positive ID is hard. usually I like to see paint, before I pull the trigger.

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I haven't been able to try VR yet, but I suspect it would be about the same as it is for me now - friendly planes are the ones I could catch up with who are in front of me trying to dodge my bullets, and enemy planes are the ones behind me ripping my plane to shreds.

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Hi

 

How do you Vr guys identify friendly from enemy aircrafts in expert mode specially during escort missions?!

 

Sometimes a flyby is required. If an enemy is identified, attack again. The second phase is only possible if you have a decent advantage. If you don't have the advantage you know that the guy shooting you from behind is an enemy, or possibly just another VR user who has failed to exercise due diligence in trying to identify aircraft as I have described.

 

Accidents happen though. I have even left enemies alone, thinking they were friendly. Then they turn on me and shoot me down and I don't know if you can imagine a face palm with a VR set on your head, but I imagine it's quite comical for a third person to watch.

 

As a never-even-tried-it VR person can I ask, would it be fair to say that VR isn't fit for the CFS-as-a-competitive-sport simmer, but more for the wow-I'm-flying-a-fantastic-old-warbird-in-a-beautiful-environment kind of simmer?

 

If so, would it be great for SP and MP coops? (Really hoping for feedback to help justify putting my kids on a bread and water diet for a month so I can "invest" in an Oculus Thingy.)

 

Maybe not ideal for competitive play, no. Though there might be some debate if flying tight with a team, I imagine. I think you still could, but there are pros and cons, and I believe you already know what they are.

 

You should still budget the kids meals though, as long as that doesn't impinge on your beer consumption. VR is definitely worth it. I don't want to sound like an overexcited jumping dog - that's the only metaphor I can think of presently that VR users might sound like to some, but you'll probably just fall into the 'wow-I'm-flying-a-fantastic-old-warbird-in-a-beautiful-environment' immediately after trying it - as all VR users have done, I'm sure. ["I'm in it! I'm actually IN the plane!"]

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The way to consider VR and it's limitations, at the moment, is as proof of concept. It works, I'd just not perfect. The next generation headsets should be absolutely awesome when it comes to flight sims, it'll be like pre and post graphics card computers ( So start saving now, it's amazing what you can accumulate by just putting loose change in a jar over a two year period).

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Yes VR has a lot of room to improve for sure, but I have no regrets about being an early adopter. In IL2 I think the only think I can complain about is low res, and perhaps a little blur from the fresnel lenses. 

Even taxiing is a joy though, actually leaning out of your cockpit with the canopy open. I can't go back to playing IL2 through a window, and I have a 28" 4k screen.

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Zoom helps a bit but only at close range. In larger distances while zooming in, the spotted plane stays the same size, in effect is 'zoomed out'.

 

In my experience:

- graphic settings matter, a lot. Ideally you would keep 90fps with ASW off all the time. For this reason I'm trying hard to justify a new graphic card :)

- Build your SA, look at who is shooting at who, ground fire, flak, most likely enemy routes and targets, etc.

- Adjust your tactics and never ever go into a furball  :wacko:

- At last, forget fighters and fly ground pounders   :cool:

Edited by SevenFifty

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It's not just a VR problem. The attached image was made by 216th_Nocke (https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/20968-wip-finkerens-easy-id-guide/?p=339951) and shows what individual plane types look like at given distances on a HD display. Aircraft silhouettes were recorded from the screen while fully zooming in. Click to enlarge it to see it better, although that way they will appear much bigger than in the game. 

 

You can notice that at 1000 m and beyond it's near impossible to tell whether a fighter is friendly or foe. Upper view is the best, the shape of the wing gives you some indication as to the country of origin. In side view it's barely possible to guess nationality at 1000 m, while in front view it's hard to tell it even at 500 m.

 

This is realistic in the sense that it's proportional, but unrealistic so far as it doesn't render the level of detail what the human eye can see in RL. Once I was watching a Spitfire and a P-40 flying together at Duxford, and I was never in doubt which one was which, although the farthest sections of their flight were well beyond the 1000 m distance.

 

If you want a 'realistic' and 'immersive' simulation environment without 'artificial' visual aids (such as object markers), you have to live with it. At the moment you can't have a realistic combat experience and a realistic combat environment at the same time. I have a HD display and I don't find unrealistic to use object markers (although I'd like to have the possibility to customize them as in old Il-2 or CLOD).

post-129998-0-17020400-1495791652_thumb.png

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It'll be interesting to see where foviated viewing takes us in a couple of years time, what the resolution of the screens will be, compared to monitor detail expectations ( it's not quite the same measurement). How detailed will that central view be, I can't wait, it's going to be great fun.

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It'll be interesting to see where foviated viewing takes us in a couple of years time

We live now. Period.  ;) Today's problems deserve today's solutions.

Edited by sniperton

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Wing shape is the key point of identification in VR. Thick fat wings are Russian, thin wings German.

 

Thin side profile may indicate a 109.

 

You have to be almost within firing range to make use of other visual identification cues I find.

 

Once in a dogfight I have no problem with identification of all but a macchi.

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Why is identification such a problem in VR? The resolution is still greater than 1080p right? It's it better if you use the pimax?

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As a ground-pounder, I just wait until my ai gunner sits up and then I shout to 'The Wife'; "I'll be downstairs in a bit, I am nearly done here!"

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Why is identification such a problem in VR? The resolution is still greater than 1080p right? It's it better if you use the pimax?

Still greater, but we can't zoom in as far as flat screen users. Pixel density is not as great given the field of view we have.

 

As of last night (new PC) I'm running 1.5 SuperSampling which would put my effective resolution at around 4k.

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Me I just pick a target and get on his tail if he turns out to be friendly I assist and if not I attack. Also I can often spot the German planes by shape as they are pretty distinctive.

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Why is identification such a problem in VR? The resolution is still greater than 1080p right? It's it better if you use the pimax?

A better understanding of resolution is to think in terms of pixel per degree. For a monitor, regardless of FOV, you probably have a view window of about 10 degrees. With that, if you have a horizontal pixel count of 4000, for example, that equates to 400 pixels per degree to provide a fine detail picture. With VR hmd's you have a viewing window of, give or take,100 degrees so if you had the same number of horizontal pixels, 4000, that only comes to 40 pixels per degree. A tenth of the resolution. Blob spotting is easier but fine grained identification is not.

 

I appreciate that description is very simplistic but hopefully it manages to, correctly, convey the difference.

Edited by HagarTheHorrible
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Thanks guys for the feedback and great to feel am not the only one with that problem

 

For the guys asking about VR?

 

Bottom line : Vr is the best thing happened in flight sims

By far ,and imo IL2 is the best looking sim in Vr

 

I had the same doubts as u guys before i buy the rift , now i cant play any game out of VR ,its awesooome.

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Thanks guys for the feedback and great to feel am not the only one with that problem

 

For the guys asking about VR?

 

Bottom line : Vr is the best thing happened in flight sims

By far ,and imo IL2 is the best looking sim in Vr

 

I had the same doubts as u guys before i buy the rift , now i cant play any game out of VR ,its awesooome.

 

Amen to that!

 

Last time I played a game on my monitor was on Jan 14th. Got my rift on Jan 15th. 

No going back for me.

I am still in awe every time I put it on.

Edited by dburne

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Strangely enough, to my old eyes, in VR german insignia look like RAF roundals to me, so if i dont recognise the silhouette, thats what i look for.

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Do any of you know where i can find a sheet file for ground buildings etc. Thanks for this topic. I'm fairly new and had a lot of troubles ID planes. Thats also the reason i never shot any plane yet.

 

I just learning how the planes look now and it really helps if you know some basic things about the planes. I only know how to ID planes checking their wings(how flat and rounded there are)

 

I think the rest will come in time.. Thanks for making this topic

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Do any of you know where i can find a sheet file for ground buildings etc. Thanks for this topic. I'm fairly new and had a lot of troubles ID planes. Thats also the reason i never shot any plane yet.

I just learning how the planes look now and it really helps if you know some basic things about the planes. I only know how to ID planes checking their wings(how flat and rounded there are)

I think the rest will come in time.. Thanks for making this topic

Welcome to our hobby bro

 

If u r new to this sim id reccommend to turn on object markers at least , until you get hold of where to expect to see enemy planes and how does the campaign work overall .

 

And ofcourse great guys will always be here for help

 

Cheers

Edited by ayousry
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I mostly fly Bf110 which looks amazing in VR but the rear gunner calls out contacts for me. Then its just a simple double check before I fire. 

Edited by GrendelsDad

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The fact that you have to eye-identify aircraft in VR and zooming does almost nothing makes me actually more interested in VR, not less.

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I my case, playing SP only at this time, I have icons set to a toggle switch - and toggle them on when I need to ID aircraft. As I gain experience I try and do it less, but still in VR is is difficult for me to ID friend or foe. Not much problem spotting the planes, but knowing which is which is rather difficult for me.

 

Maybe eventually I will get better at it and be more comfortable with the icons off, time will tell I guess.

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I too am in the same boat as dburne.

 

I *try* to use no markers but do often flash em up to gain some situational awareness, practice, practice,practice I guess?!

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I too am in the same boat as dburne.

 

I *try* to use no markers but do often flash em up to gain some situational awareness, practice, practice,practice I guess?!

 

Can you toggle markers without the insane framerate hit from the other HUD elements? If so can that be bound to a separate button?

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As a never-even-tried-it VR person can I ask, would it be fair to say that VR isn't fit for the CFS-as-a-competitive-sport simmer, but more for the wow-I'm-flying-a-fantastic-old-warbird-in-a-beautiful-environment kind of simmer?

 

If so, would it be great for SP and MP coops? (Really hoping for feedback to help justify putting my kids on a bread and water diet for a month so I can "invest" in an Oculus Thingy.)

 

I find that my gunnery has improved ridiculously over 2D/TrackIR.

 

As in stupid ridiculous.

 

And so has mental target tracking (i.e., following someone when they dip out of sight, manouevering your a/c to reacquire them again).

 

The latter, especially, was my bugbear in 2D. I am sure there are many experts out there in 2D who could wipe the sky clean without thinking twice, but I always spent most of my 2D engagements wondering "now where did he go?". With VR, no such issues --- the movement in my head matches exactly the movement in the simulated world.

 

Both are benefits of the 1-to-1 6DOF head-tracking. 

 

The depth perception related WOW factor wears of very, very quickly. The benefits of 1-to-1 6DOF are significant, material, game-changing, and, thus no going back.

 

I don't find target spotting that much more difficult than when running on my 4K. Target ID, however is. At the same time, as I say elsewhere, it is actually easier in IL2 as most of the aircraft on each side have distinct wing silhouettes (squarish-tip + straight forward edge, vs. symmetric wide-based ovalish. There are exceptions, e.g., P-40. In DCS, it is a lot more tricky due to both poor image scaling at distances plus aircraft like the P-51.

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Wing shape gets you mostly there. Allied fighters (generally) have wide bases with symmetrical curves (both forward and aft edge) out and then tapering in to tips. Axis fighters a/c wings (generally) have much narrower bases, straight forward edges (orthogonal to body). The P-40 confuses things. Luckily, don't see much of that in MP. I think the twin engines are all fairly distinct.

 

ID is a problem. But it is also part of the challenge, in game as well as RL. Many times I have to hold my fire until I make a close pass. Then I either waggle my wings and fly off, or turn around and begin to dance.

 

IRL, many, many, many, cases of friendly fire take downs on all fronts across both sides. Of course, in RL, you don't get a bunch of people taking off at different times and arriving at a furball at a different times in the style of the every-man-for-himself meets the wild-wild-west meets airquake jousting. With operational coordination, you generally knew who else was supposed to be in the sky in front of you enough to be able to make a good guess whether the specks you see in the distance are the good guys or the bad guys.

 

BTW, it is a LOT better in IL2 than DCS. For one thing, I think IL2 is beautifully nails down the balance between visibility and scaling much more than DCS. Spotting is more authentic. In addition, the P-51 wing is very similar to the Axis wing at a distance, and you have to hope to catch sight of the belly intake bulge to make the determination.

Edited by Bearfoot

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Amen to that!

 

Last time I played a game on my monitor was on Jan 14th. Got my rift on Jan 15th. 

No going back for me.

I am still in awe every time I put it on.

 

Second that Amen..!

 

I can never go back to flat screen again..

It can be truly mind blowing at times..!

 

Love it!

 

Don't delay..!  You'll kick yourself for waiting.

 

V

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