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Opinion about IL-2 community

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Hello, just wanted to say something, maybe some people will think about what they do. I always considered hardcore games like arma, red orchestra or IL-2 as best community games, nice people, helpful etc. But I guess nothing is as perfect as it looks. 

 

Today while playing on WoL server i shoot at green camo plane, since a lot of russian have green camo i thought he is russian, it was not full auto madness just short series, saw that was friendly fire, ok, my bad, happens.. I appologized and said that it was my mistake, was almost sure that was russian. In history there is so much friendly fire accidents, having friendly fire in game makes it more realistic, i can't imagine games like arma or red orchestra where there is no FF, it's part of experience. 

Anyway, i was vote kicked by many people, (not enough tho to kick me), so here is my question, what the hell is wrong with you people?! If you are going to vote kick any friendly fire (that was not even kill) then why don't you play on servers with FF off? 

 

Really, wish some of you guys would act more mature and stop being triggered by little accidents, especially for new players, good way to scare them off and kill game where you will be left with your small group of perfect pilots who never make mistakes..

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I think even the most experienced pilots make identification mistakes from time to time. I remember watching a recent video by DerSheriff (who is very experienced) where he misidentified a friendly MC 202 and shot it down by mistake.

 

As a community I do think flight sims have issues with not always treating beginners all that well. Which is stupid because we all realise that flight sims are a niche, and I think everyone wants the community to grow and be more successful. 

 

On the issue of identification, lots of new pilots have this problem and I've been working on an aid to help people learn ... watch this space :-)

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I have bad day today i guess.. just was TK by my own gunner who decieded to shoot at my own plane..  :(

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Some people take it way to serious and forget it is just a game and not a matter of real life and and death.

 

And the ironic thing is that when it becomes more realistic with accidents of friendly fire it is doesn't fit in their perfect virtual world.

(Friendly fire incidents during WWII vary from 2% up to 20%. No reliable data exist or are accessible for many reasons)

 

When incidents like this happen again you have one good excuse by saying 'Hey, I am a rookie. I am In Progress!' :biggrin:

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On the issue of identification, lots of new pilots have this problem and I've been working on an aid to help people learn ... watch this space :-)

I know, it's hard.. especially with chaotic flying like people do, everyone everywhere, no coordination and then they expect 0 FF... I have +1000h in Red orchestra, i can tell you that even in infantry based game people have a lot of problem with FF on +100m and it takes a lot of time before you can get good at this, even now from time to time i can snipe someone with my rifle at 200m because there is just no way to be 100% sure it's enemy or friendly. It's even harder with planes, yellow markings help, skin make HUGE difference, yellow parts are way easier to see and you are 100% sure it's friendly, makes it easier, i know everyone can fly with whatever skin they want but if you take full green skin then you just increase your chances of being hit by FF.. just my experience so far.

When incidents like this happen again you have one good excuse by saying 'Hey, I am a rookie. I am In Progress!' :biggrin:

lol :lol:

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Hello, just wanted to say something, maybe some people will think about what they do. I always considered hardcore games like arma, red orchestra or IL-2 as best community games, nice people, helpful etc. But I guess nothing is as perfect as it looks. 

 

Today while playing on WoL server i shoot at green camo plane, since a lot of russian have green camo i thought he is russian, it was not full auto madness just short series, saw that was friendly fire, ok, my bad, happens.. I appologized and said that it was my mistake, was almost sure that was russian. In history there is so much friendly fire accidents, having friendly fire in game makes it more realistic, i can't imagine games like arma or red orchestra where there is no FF, it's part of experience. 

Anyway, i was vote kicked by many people, (not enough tho to kick me), so here is my question, what the hell is wrong with you people?! If you are going to vote kick any friendly fire (that was not even kill) then why don't you play on servers with FF off? 

 

Really, wish some of you guys would act more mature and stop being triggered by little accidents, especially for new players, good way to scare them off and kill game where you will be left with your small group of perfect pilots who never make mistakes..

Salutations,

 

This type of experience is really sad when one notes that the WOL server is apparently set up for a 'realistic' combat flight experience, ie. no craft Icons etc... but when something untoward happens that actually was experienced in 'real life' combat (realistic), they whine and moan and want to penalize someone for inadvertently causing said event. This would be laughable if weren't actually so unreasonable and sad.

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Don't think about yourself but the guy you killed instead. Perhaps you are his 3rd, 4th or 5th TK incident that day and he lost the temper. I often have days when I get FF in Folgore several times in just a few sorties. Its frustrating to have your limited free time wasted on limping back to base just to get shot by a careless teammate again on the next sortie. And you might have guessed it but your 'sorry' in chat doesn't magically fix your teammates' planes.

 

Be mindful of other team mates, don't shoot unless absolutely certain it is enemy. If more players actually gave a fuck about that then TKs would happen much less frequently. But 90% of players are there to score kills whatever the cost so when they screw up out of carelessness then somehow "sorry" in chat should make up for it? 

 

What I started doing recently is if I get shot at by a friendly and survive I try and take him down when he overshoots followed up by my sincerest "sorry" in chat. Did it 2 times successfully and felt great!

 

Cheers!

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Don't think about yourself but the guy you killed instead. Perhaps you are his 3rd, 4th or 5th TK incident that day and he lost the temper. I often have days when I get FF in Folgore several times in just a few sorties. Its frustrating to have your limited free time wasted on limping back to base just to get shot by a careless teammate again on the next sortie. And you might have guessed it but your 'sorry' in chat doesn't magically fix your teammates' planes.

 

Be mindful of other team mates, don't shoot unless absolutely certain it is enemy. If more players actually gave a fuck about that then TKs would happen much less frequently. But 90% of players are there to score kills whatever the cost so when they screw up out of carelessness then somehow "sorry" in chat should make up for it? 

 

What I started doing recently is if I get shot at by a friendly and survive I try and take him down when he overshoots followed up by my sincerest "sorry" in chat. Did it 2 times successfully and felt great!

 

Cheers!

 

hmmm

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Nice discussion. I don't see how the occasional friendly fire incident could be avoided in a no icons setting. But that I assume is part of the draw-the realism.

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What I started doing recently is if I get shot at by a friendly and survive I try and take him down when he overshoots followed up by my sincerest "sorry" in chat. Did it 2 times successfully and felt great!

 

Cheers!

Keep it up, i hope one day admin will reward you with perm ban, that would feel great. If you are so fragile then why not playing on server with icons on or where FF is off?

Your answer is so childish.. someone damged me, i am gonna revenge and TK him..

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Keep it up, i hope one day admin will reward you with perm ban, that would feel great. If you are so fragile then why not playing on server with icons on or where FF is off?

Your answer is so childish.. someone damged me, i am gonna revenge and TK him..

 

If its you on the receiving end it will be worth it.

 

As a matter of fact, your complaining is childish and if you've spent even a second thinking about inconvenience your TK caused to that guy you probably wouldn't even start this thread. You sound like the guy that needs to be TKd on a regular basis for a period of time, perhaps you'll start understanding the frustration. I'll keep an eye over my shoulder for you.

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If its you on the receiving end it will be worth it.

 

As a matter of fact, your complaining is childish and if you've spent even a second thinking about inconvenience your TK caused to that guy you probably wouldn't even start this thread. You sound like the guy that needs to be TKd on a regular basis for a period of time, perhaps you'll start understanding the frustration. I'll keep an eye over my shoulder for you.

 

Oh wow.

 

space_ghost_facepalm.jpg

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Keep team killing everyone that only scratched you by accident. I am sure thanks to you community will gorw and new players will post positives reviews to encourage other to buy it. If I was admin on that server and I would see you doing this you would end up permanently banned, "people" like you in bigger groups can even kill entire game by making others hate playing. I am sure server admins and devs will be grateful for your actions.

 

I have almost 100h in bos, that was max 3rd FF I did. Probably 2nd + 2 FF that I did not hit. FF =/= TK. Never tk anyone so learn to read.

 

Someone pushed me on the street by accident and poured my coffe on my tshirt, better beat him up so he will learn his lesson... your logic, I would not want to know you in real life.

Edited by InProgress

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I never let truly careless pilots take part in my CoOps. Overall I found these sorts of accidents rare. I also booted/banned people like Ypsan since that sort of toxicity is even worse.

 

I intentionally shot two 'friendlies' back in the day, both were being tools, neither were responses to an innocent accident.

 

These friendly fire accidents happen - but they should be rare.

 

Here's the thing - yes friendly fire happened in real life - but you're not under the same stresses as a real pilot in a real war. You have the luxury of holding off and making sure you have a positive ID.

 

On the other hand nobody actually dies because of your error.

 

So both sides are the truth as long as not taken to an extreme. On one hand it's just a game, no real harm done and mistakes will happen. No need to be a galactic ass about it. On the other hand, ID your targets and don't use real life events under extreme stress and conditions to justify carelessness while sitting at your desk with your computer and some snacks. :)

 

Fair enough?

I accidentally fired on a friendly 3 times over several years. No damage done because I fortunately realized my error each time before I started scoring.

Edited by Gambit21

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Well same here, can't be 100% sure but they did not smoke or anything, never got info about their deaths as well, never fired like crazy, after seeing ff into I stop. 4FF including 2 that I did not hit at all but got info that it's friendly. Not that bad I guess.

 

Maybe it's not real life but when in fight my heart is beating like hell xD it's kind of stressful as well, just like watching horror movies. I never actually started shooting at someone just like that, every time I was following for a while trying to see who is that. Some skins are harder to recognize, especially when playing on low details :(

 

And like someone said before, even some guy from YouTube who is experienced TK someone on his video.. happens, they put FF in this game for a reason.

Edited by InProgress

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The more I think about it, I remember a reflexive snap shot or two that fortunately missed. ;)

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We have all done it I guess at some point... it doesn't matter what your experience level, so I wouldn't worry about getting a bit of flak from people who obviously have their underwear on a bit to tight.

 

The flight sim community has always had it's share of 'experten' and people who are or have to be 'always right'... but they are in the minority, plus, as we are all human, sometimes people are just having a bad day :)

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Keep team killing everyone that only scratched you by accident. I am sure thanks to you community will gorw and new players will post positives reviews to encourage other to buy it. If I was admin on that server and I would see you doing this you would end up permanently banned, "people" like you in bigger groups can even kill entire game by making others hate playing. I am sure server admins and devs will be grateful for your actions.

 

I have almost 100h in bos, that was max 3rd FF I did. Probably 2nd + 2 FF that I did not hit. FF =/= TK. Never tk anyone so learn to read.

 

Someone pushed me on the street by accident and poured my coffe on my tshirt, better beat him up so he will learn his lesson... your logic, I would not want to know you in real life.

Lol talking about exagarating things for the sake of your own argument. When you get TKd on regular basis as I do then you can be the judge. I'm well past accepting appologies when flashing lights and rocking wings has no effect on team mates dead set on shooting you off the sky. "Because those sneaky VVS sometimes do it too..." as I was told many times as an excuse.

 

Scraching my plane and immediately breaking off is not what I consider team killing btw nor do I take such actions offensively. Its when 109 sticks on my 6 until I'm shot down. At that point its a threat that needs to be taken care off. Chat will not warn for FF until you land a hit and most dont focus on chat alerts when they have a plane in their crosshair anyway. If I'm forced into evasive maneuvering and I get the upper hand then I'm not taking and risks and I will fire if presented with opportunity. Ban or no ban.

 

TKing friendlies out of carelesness is equally damaging to community. You are not the victim here, its the guy you team killed. But yeah he called you an idiot so everyone on forum has to know about it. Poor you.

 

You can't compare pushing people on street with video game... but I'm writing an essay here already so forget it.

 

See you in the skies.

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When you get TKd on regular basis as I do

 

 

..cant think why....

Edited by 5./ZG1_BOO
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 4FF including 2 that I did not hit at all but got info that it's friendly. Not that bad I guess.

 

 

But not that good either.  Perhaps you should fly an icons server until you are confident of your aircraft recognition?

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Really, wish some of you guys would act more mature and stop being triggered by little accidents, especially for new players, good way to scare them off and kill game where you will be left with your small group of perfect pilots who never make mistakes..

i would like to retrun your argument against you...

 

so you screwed up

and you did not like the reaction of the people around you

now you post.

 

who is the triggered one.

 

 

hardcore games like arma, red orchestra or IL-2

Stop whining.

take it like a man.

Accept the bashing and learn your lesson.

Stand tall

keep shooting.

keep getting better.

 

 

Edited by Yakdriver

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Ypsan or yakdriver.. and then you wonder why game is not popular. What can't you understand? Is it that hard for you so I have to say it again?

Go play with FF off or icon server if you have problem with FF. For the love of god, I don't understand people like you. If you are going to vote kick or complain about ff them DONT PLAY ON FF SERVER. It's like crying about having cheese in cheeseburger, just get regular one but noo you like cheeseburger name better? Want consider yourself as pro who fly on super ultra realism server but cry about FF.

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Ypsan or yakdriver.. and then you wonder why game is not popular. What can't you understand? Is it that hard for you so I have to say it again?

Go play with FF off or icon server if you have problem with FF. For the love of god, I don't understand people like you. If you are going to vote kick or complain about ff them DONT PLAY ON FF SERVER. It's like crying about having cheese in cheeseburger, just get regular one but noo you like cheeseburger name better? Want consider yourself as pro who fly on super ultra realism server but cry about FF.

Actually what I understand is that you are complining about how some people react to being TKd and I've shared my opinion on that subject. If you think I'm that bothered by FF then perhaps check what I posted in FF appology thread a few days ago. Its a game, shit happenes and sometimes if we had a bad day we react in negative manner. But I took my time when posting to apologize for MY occasional bad response to being TKd. You on the other hand took time to criticize the reaction of a team mate you killed. There is nothing you can do to undo the team kill except try and be more careful in the future thats all.

 

Reflecting on my first post in your thread I was steaming off a bit but the thing that triggered me is your lack of understanding that being TKd often is damn frustrating. And sometimes on a bad day 'sorry' is just not comforting enough especially if it happened by other team mates the same day already.

 

 

@Boo and Space Ghost

 

Its not a mistery, I fly mc.202 90% of the time which looks very much like Mig3. Its no suprise but at the same shouldn't be an excuse either.

Edited by Ypsan

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The retaliatory TKing? I agree with that.

 

No. If you are a threat to me I'll shoot you down with no remorse.

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Hello, just wanted to say something, maybe some people will think about what they do. I always considered hardcore games like arma, red orchestra or IL-2 as best community games, nice people, helpful etc. But I guess nothing is as perfect as it looks. 

 

Today while playing on WoL server i shoot at green camo plane, since a lot of russian have green camo i thought he is russian, it was not full auto madness just short series, saw that was friendly fire, ok, my bad, happens.. I appologized and said that it was my mistake, was almost sure that was russian. In history there is so much friendly fire accidents, having friendly fire in game makes it more realistic, i can't imagine games like arma or red orchestra where there is no FF, it's part of experience. 

Anyway, i was vote kicked by many people, (not enough tho to kick me), so here is my question, what the hell is wrong with you people?! If you are going to vote kick any friendly fire (that was not even kill) then why don't you play on servers with FF off? 

 

Really, wish some of you guys would act more mature and stop being triggered by little accidents, especially for new players, good way to scare them off and kill game where you will be left with your small group of perfect pilots who never make mistakes..

 

I wasn't present for the incident you're describing, but think of it this way:  When you fail at aircraft ID and damage a friendly, even if you don't shoot him down, you've just ruined his sortie.  He has to go back and get a new aircraft now.

 

I agree that we need to be lenient on new players, but some of us have families and kids and jobs and only get a few precious hours per week to fly.  I mostly fly the 190 these days, and to do it right I really ought to be engaging from an altitude advantage.  If I'm flying CAP over some bombers at 3-4000 m it takes a solid 20 minutes to start the engine, taxi, take off, climb, and then make my way over to the objective.  Longer still if I'm escorting a slow, lumbering bomber.

 

So if someone mistakes my Fw 190 for an La-5, then they've potentially just ruined the last 35 minutes of my sortie, and I have to go land (takes another 15-20 minutes) and then take off again.  There goes potentially more than an hour, and I'm lucky if I can get 3 hours in a week to fly these days, so you've basically ruined something that I've been looking forward to all week.

 

So I hope that you can see why people get pretty upset.

 

As for "turn FF off", well, some of us don't like to fly with easymode settings like icons.

Edited by JG13_opcode
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No. If you are a threat to me I'll shoot you down with no remorse.

This, if i am in a fighter, and a i sense that the 109 or (whatever), that is sneaking up on my 6, has me mistaken for a bandit, i'll waggle my wings and flash lights. IF he fires his guns at me, or continues to operate on my 6 after i have tried to shake him, i'll treat him as a bandit. Unless he apologizes in chat. If he does, then its fair - well usually it is. However i have seen players who has fired at friendlies maybe 4-5 times within the last hour. If that is the case, i'd say booting him off the server, and advising him to practice identifying before going into "expert" servers is fair. 

 

Ypsan or yakdriver.. and then you wonder why game is not popular. What can't you understand? Is it that hard for you so I have to say it again?

Go play with FF off or icon server if you have problem with FF. For the love of god, I don't understand people like you. If you are going to vote kick or complain about ff them DONT PLAY ON FF SERVER. It's like crying about having cheese in cheeseburger, just get regular one but noo you like cheeseburger name better? Want consider yourself as pro who fly on super ultra realism server but cry about FF.

Well (this is purely my personal opinion). When flying on an expert server, i'd say that making sure you are fully capable of identifying friend from foe should be a top priority. So for you to hop onto an expert server, and shoot friendlies is (in my opinion) very, very poor sportsmanship. That you apologize should be a given, you screwed up. As people have stated, you might just have cost some guy his last 30 minutes, and maybe he wont have time to fly again for several days. Obviously an instant kick for one mishap is in no way justified, people gotta be a bit larger than that. But for you to fire at friendlies, is not acceptable either. Not on a "super ultra realism server". That a bunch of people agreed to kick you, should hopefully teach you (or anyone else) that on expert servers, you are expected to be capable of identifying a friend from a foe. If you cant, i'd say you should choose the other cheeseburger, as clearly this one is too much for you to handle.   

Edited by JG19_Mueller

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Holy hell, are people really experiencing that much FF?

 

I fly both Soviets/Germans and I will say.... LOTS more FF flying Axis. No idea why but it's just my experience. It's not something to get worked up about. These things happen. Get over it.

 

Whining and name calling and revenge killing solves absolutely nothing.

Edited by Y-29.Layin_Scunion

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Ypsan, yourself and people who share the same views regarding TKing as you do are the problem.

 

Revenge TKing helps absolutely no one, typing in chat with hints on how to better identify friend from foe or better yet inviting the culprit onto TS to lend a hand with voice are both far better solutions.

 

Doing everything we can to ensure we have an active, healthy community in such a niche genre is far more important than whether or not a friendly FNG accidently puts a few holes in your virtual wings.

 

Keep acting like that and before you know it you won't have anyone to complain about/revenge kill because new players will move on to a different community.

 

Use your head.

 

Just a quick edit to say, InProgress, I'm sorry you had a few rough days out there, I assure you that this is a fantastic group as a whole. It sounds like you just had some rotten luck, don't let it get to you and don't sweat the friendly fire, it happens.

Edited by Y-29.Sulaco
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Whenever I've accidentally fired on a target I thought was opposite side, I've just said in chat "I'm sorry, mis-id'd!" and nothing ever came of it. Doesn't happen often, but it does.

If you mess up, own it and state it. If it becomes an issue after that, then you have room to bicker.

 

I've played lots of ArmA, Bf-2 on a team oriented server, Project Reality, etc. If you screw up, own it.

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If some one performs serveral attacks agains a friendly aircraft in order and then get gunned down by the mates of attacked one , who cares?

Edited by I./ZG1_Krokodilor

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Ypsan, yourself and people who share the same views regarding TKing as you do are the problem.

 

Revenge TKing helps absolutely no one, typing in chat with hints on how to better identify friend from foe or better yet inviting the culprit onto TS to lend a hand with voice are both far better solutions.

 

Doing everything we can to ensure we have an active, healthy community in such a niche genre is far more important than whether or not a friendly FNG accidently puts a few holes in your virtual wings.

 

Keep acting like that and before you know it you won't have anyone to complain about/revenge kill because new players will move on to a different community.

 

Use your head.

 

Just a little clarification on "revenge killing"... its the term brought up by Space_Ghost, not me, and implies that I set myself to avenge my death which is not true and I have never said that. English is his native language not mine so he should know better.

 

If you pose a treat to me after all my attempts to warn you that I am friendly I will defend myself, plain and simple. If you give me no other choice I'll rather be the one apologizing than the one limping back to base with the damaged engine, if I can help it. I've tried the passive way and still got shot down regardless. You apologize and go on your own way while I deal with the damaged plane and have to start a new sortie. You say I should continue that way but I disagree.

 

This is the first thread I've personally seen on forum that complains about reaction to team killing. It's not as big of an issue as you make it out to be because  generally team killing is well tolerated and politely resolved in chat, on WoL at least. And if someone snaps from time to time and ie tries to vote kick you (which I didn't know it was possible cause I never seen that on WoL) don't complain about it on forum, you screwed up after all. Start showing some sympathy for teammates you shot at and FF will not occur as often as it does now. That's the solution, not the other way around.

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What I started doing recently is if I get shot at by a friendly and survive I try and take him down when he overshoots followed up by my sincerest "sorry" in chat. Did it 2 times successfully and felt great

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What I started doing recently is if I get shot at by a friendly and survive I try and take him down when he overshoots followed up by my sincerest "sorry" in chat. Did it 2 times successfully and felt great

 

And 2-3 additional posts after that one which clearly show what that means. If you don't kill me on your first pass I am in defensive mode and will shoot you down so long as you are a threat, yes. But go ahead and cherry pick any sentences you wish, it doesn't make your argument any stronger.

 

EDIT

... and yes it felt great 2 times I survived the incident, for a change.

Edited by Ypsan

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Ypsan, your explanation above is a lot more reasonable than it initially sounded, I can't argue against flying in defensive mode when you take FF, I think every person on here would do that along with all of the wing waggling and light flashing they could fit in there.

 

I also have never seen a vote kick on the WoL server, didn't even know that was possible.

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If some one performs serveral attacks agains a friendly aircraft in order and then get gunned down by the mates of attacked one , who cares?

 

Thats exactly what happened just a few min ago on Eagles Nest server. We were flying 190s and one blind E7 engaged my squadmate and would not let him go, he was dumping all his ammo on my friend, and thus was a threat. I shot him down with no remorse. 

 

-edit-

 

You can open a vote kick/ban by pressing Esc, going to Player List and clicking on the square spot in front of the player name.

Edited by JAGER_Staiger

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I'm glad we are finding a common ground and its interesting that some of us never witnessed a vote kicking in multiplayer. Proves that when it comes to TKing it is often resolved in polite and mature manner.

 

Lastly, if we want to help this community grow then if something is worth writing its certainly owning up and appologizing for our own mistakes. Otherwise its better left unsaid. And this time I'm pointing finger at myself too hence my appology in other thread.

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