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jcomm-il2

Are the FDM updates comming this week ?

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The tittle says it all :-)

 

It's been a long time since Han acnowledged the team being at it - the roll-yaw coupling fine tuning and possibly also the wobbling ( mostly in pitch )....

Edited by jcomm

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Not this week. Much too soon since last update. Early june is more likely.

 

Also: What does "FDM" stand for?

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Not this week. Much too soon since last update. Early june is more likely.

 

Also: What does "FDM" stand for?

 

FDM : Forenede Danske Motorejere :)  (United Danish Motor Owners)

 

With Your location noted to be in Copenhagen, You should know Finkeren !

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This is great news didn't know about it. I've been living under the rock. Will this affect all aircraft in game?

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Janson was asked about this not long ago and he didn't have time to release, when under pressure he say 2017 not even quarter...

Edited by 307_Tomcat

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Though rudder behavior bothered me greatly when first trying bos (you really need an enormous dihedral angle to get anywhere near the continuous rollrate rudder alone can achieve here), I have now slowly gotten used to it.

 

If I recall correctly they also wanted to improve other areas of the fm for each plane. Such as more aggressive stall and snap behavior (today the mushy and forgiving slow speed stall behavior bothers me more than the rudder/roll coupling.) All of this while keeping performance figures the same.

 

It only makes sense to do all this for all the aircraft, together with whatever needed general fm changes arise during the process, on a parallel build. And then merge it all.

Edited by a_radek

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Not this week. Much too soon since last update. Early june is more likely.

 

Also: What does "FDM" stand for?

 

Oops, sorry FDM = Flight Dynamics Model

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i asked the devs in the discussion thread about the dev diary, and Jason answered, saying that 2017 is all he can say at this point.

from the previous dev diary where they already explained in detail what we can expect roughly with these announced changes, i got the impression that its much closer to release, hence my question of when...

i was kind of dissappointed when Jason just said 2017, but only because i got this wrong expectation from this aformentioned dev diary. they need to change the FM for every single aircraft, so im sure this is lots of work.

knowing that we will see those changes this year is already good news for me...still, the sooner the better of course...its definitely THE ONE BIG THING im personally looking forward to right now in IL2.

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Oops, sorry FDM = Flight Dynamics Model

Ahh, I thought so, though I think most people use the simpler FM = Flight Model.

This is great news didn't know about it. I've been living under the rock. Will this affect all aircraft in game?

Yes, that's why it's taking so long. They have to get it ready and tested for all aircraft at the same time.

 

This means that they are currently designing new aircraft for BoK with the "wrong" rudder model, to keep all aircraft on the same level.

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Though rudder behavior bothered me greatly when first trying bos (you really need an enormous dihedral angle to get anywhere near the continuous rollrate rudder alone can achieve here), I have now slowly gotten used to it.

 

If I recall correctly they also wanted to improve other areas of the fm for each plane. Such as more aggressive stall and snap behavior (today the mushy and forgiving slow speed stall behavior bothers me more than the rudder/roll coupling.) All of this while keeping performance figures the same.

 

It only makes sense to do all this for all the aircraft, together with whatever needed general fm changes arise during the process, on a parallel build. And then merge it all.

When I'm​ on enemy six and if he noticed me some times I witness freaking show - it's​ look so unrealistic and denying all air laws how pilot is throwing airplane in the sky like fish on hook and still do not lost control of the plane.

Other times i have simmliar thoughts when is see how heavy loaded bomber is pitching up hard right away after taking off and do not fall to the ground.

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Other times i have simmliar thoughts when is see how heavy loaded bomber is pitching up hard right away after taking off and do not fall to the ground.

Yeah sort of like this silly sim, all wrong

 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rTLM3IHO0U0

 

Sorry tomcat I couldn't resist :) I hear you and know what your talking about. Very much looking forward to the v2.0 fm/fdm

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When I'm​ on enemy six and if he noticed me some times I witness freaking show - it's​ look so unrealistic and denying all air laws how pilot is throwing airplane in the sky like fish on hook and still do not lost control of the plane.

Other times i have simmliar thoughts when is see how heavy loaded bomber is pitching up hard right away after taking off and do not fall to the ground.

yeah we call it monkey theater :)  i think and hope that this has to do with their current fuselage drag implementation.

i really hope that flying uncoorinated will cause a more severe decrease in energy/speed after the announced FM patch, and that proper rudder inputs will make more of a difference and will give you a noticeable advantage over an enemy who is either ignoring rudder altogether or using it wrong...

but it seems that its exactly what they are working on right now...so im really looking forward to the result.

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Yeah sort of like this silly sim, all wrong

 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rTLM3IHO0U0

 

Sorry tomcat I couldn't resist :) I hear you and know what your talking about. Very much looking forward to the v2.0 fm/fdm

This Airbus take off do not look to me as bad as I remember watching ours "balloons", airbus look atlast fast and with enough thrust.

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yeah we call it monkey theater :)  i think and hope that this has to do with their current fuselage drag implementation.

i really hope that flying uncoorinated will cause a more severe decrease in energy/speed after the announced FM patch, and that proper rudder inputs will make more of a difference and will give you a noticeable advantage over an enemy who is either ignoring rudder altogether or using it wrong...

but it seems that its exactly what they are working on right now...so im really looking forward to the result.

I don't think there's anything wrong with the stall behavior, or that it's "too forgiving". Even last night, I was flying a 190 for the first time, and lost it when I simply pulled too hard on the stick. Not sure what is so forgiving about that? Anything more would be way over the top.

 

You gotta also recognize that simulations cannot recreate everything that happened in real life. In real life, pilots had real feeling when flying by the seat of their pants to warn them of any incoming stalls. In simulations we don't have that. So leaving a little extra leeway doesn't hurt for sake of gameplay. We don't have the same ques that pilots had in real life, so compromises must be made.

 

I want things to be as real as possible too. But it has to be reasonable to control the aircraft, and not a chore to where all fun is lost in our quest for realism.

 

When considering stall behavior only, I think this game is perfect where it's at.

Edited by Warpig

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I don't think there's anything wrong with the stall behavior, or that it's "too forgiving". Even last night, I was flying a 190 for the first time, and lost it when I simply pulled too hard on the stick. Not sure what is so forgiving about that? Anything more would be way over the top.  

 

We are not talking about 190 , i did not observe any of " monkey theater " regard this particular airplane. 

But trust me other can do behave like monkey :-)

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We are not talking about 190 , i did not observe any of " monkey theater " regard this particular airplane. 

But trust me other can do behave like monkey :-)

 

Trust me - they don't.

 

Is the FM perfect? Obviously not... But non-constructive formulations don't help in making anything right, either.

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We are not talking about 190 , i did not observe any of " monkey theater " regard this particular airplane. 

But trust me other can do behave like monkey :-)

yes...i am definitely not talking about stall of 190, as i cant comment about it as i dont even have it...

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We are not talking about 190 , i did not observe any of " monkey theater " regard this particular airplane. 

But trust me other can do behave like monkey :-)

 

 

yes...i am definitely not talking about stall of 190, as i cant comment about it as i dont even have it...

Fair enough about the 190. I was thinking damn... how violent should a spin be? lol

 

So what aircraft are you guys referring to?

 

I still hold my stance about some forgiveness, (or in other terms visual ques that offer time to respond), since real life stall ques cannot be recreated in a sim environment. I'm just curious.

Edited by Warpig

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I think they are talking about the Yak1 and Bf109 being too stable and responsive in a nose high attitude at low speeds.
I have to say prophainging with fully extended flaps feels a little too easy, but im not a pilot so I cant tell.
But it certainly is surprising sometimes how long people can prophang below yoou and still hit you.

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Trust me - they don't.

 

Is the FM perfect? Obviously not... But non-constructive formulations don't help in making anything right, either.

I know what i saying, i will try to catch it on video.

 

non-constructive formulations - errr what???

Edited by 307_Tomcat

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non-constructive formulations - errr what???

 

Your post...he's talking about your post man!

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Your post...he's talking about your post man!

Observation on multiplayer servers - hours that what it is! Gambit go sell bullshit somewhere else.

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Well, allow me to make something clear about my evaluation of IL.2 Battle of... since I started the thread because I wasn't even aware of Jason having commented on the FDM update being due sometime along 2017 "only"...

 

- I still consider IL.2 Battle of flight dynamics and overall physics modelling the most advanced I've been able to experience in the many PC based flightsims I've used as a simmer since the early 90s, my only "complain" being that I wanted it to become a civil flight sim, modelling my preferred GA aircraft, specially aerobatic models, and allowing me and other users to be able to profit from the quality of IL.2 flight dynamics modelling in the sort of use we prefer to give to a flight simulator...

 

- I find the rate at which the IL.2 dev and PR teams deliver content to the user community as examplar among the many platforms and developers I had to deal with along my simmer journey, and I consider their honesty, in many aspects, even when Han was feeling not so good about some of the user's comments and wrote some more Human words in response. Admiting they had found some opportunity to fine tune their flight dynamics engine to bring the quality and feel of the aircraft to even higher standards is something we do not see in any other platform ! 

 

- I am willing to wait as much as they need for that or any other update that can bring an even better experience than that already provided by this extraordinary Combat Flight Simulator, which has actually become my only Combat Flight SImulator after a long scrutiny ...

 

Every detail 1C/777 has been bringing, almost twice a month, in average, to the user community, is simply remarkable and worth our recognition.

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Fair enough about the 190. I was thinking damn... how violent should a spin be? lol

 

So what aircraft are you guys referring to?

 

I still hold my stance about some forgiveness, (or in other terms visual ques that offer time to respond), since real life stall ques cannot be recreated in a sim environment. I'm just curious.

I have a habit of derailing threads and don't want to cause more damage than I already have here. But you asked :)

 

I did find the dev-blog I mentioned regarding future Fm changes so didn't just dream things up despite my age.

 

https://il2sturmovik.com/news/297/dnevnik-razrabotchika-153/

 

I understand what your explaining, with the lack of feedback us virtual pilots get. And the devs are more than aware of this issue.

 

I remember (again) them mentioning they had given an early version of the A-3 full elevator throw and this should have been an advantage. But because of lack of the feedback you mentioned, people were high-speed stalling all over the place and devs had to resort to lowering available elevator throw. Despite light control surfaces, historically, were an actual advantage of this aircraft. (I know max aoa was also an issue).

 

I'm not after super twitchy aircraft. It's the penalty you get after stalling a winghalf I consider too soft. And I know the fw is already a mean thing to fly.

 

Worth mentioning, I find the fm in this game best there is and in many areas still awe:ing me with what they have already achieved.

Edited by a_radek

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I remember (again) them mentioning they had given an early version of the A-3 full elevator throw and this should have been an advantage. But because of lack of the feedback you mentioned, people were high-speed stalling all over the place and devs had to resort to lowering available elevator throw. Despite light control surfaces, historically, were an actual advantage of this aircraft. (I know max aoa was also an issue).

 

I'm not after super twitchy aircraft. It's the penalty you get after stalling a winghalf I consider too soft. And I know the fw is already a mean thing to fly.

 

Worth mentioning, I find the fm in this game best there is and in many areas still awe:ing me with what they have already achieved.

That makes sense. Thanks for the explanation.

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Yes it's the best on market, but as past shown there ware changes made! It's just struggling to perfection which never can be reached.

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Trust me - they don't.

 

Is the FM perfect? Obviously not... But non-constructive formulations don't help in making anything right, either.

Also p40 as 190 contrary to others crates do not allow "monkey dence". But if 190 is more convincing, p40 is not...

 

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/29009-life-and-times-p-40-pilot/?do=findComment&comment=473492

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It was very impotant, that the devs did find the reason for the misbehaviour of the rudder.

(RoF does have the same problem, otherwise it provides of course an unparalleled feeling of real flying)

As long as it will be done before or with the release of BoK it is all good.

Edited by Quax

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Please, get me away from the horrible wobbling I just can´t fly like this anymore.  :wacko:

Is it true that it depend on the joystick brand and model you have or just a myth?  :unsure:

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Please, get me away from the horrible wobbling I just can´t fly like this anymore.  :wacko:

Is it true that it depend on the joystick brand and model you have or just a myth?  :unsure:

 

Of course a low standard controller, or an "high spring force" one will probably enhance the effect, but it is due to the flight dynamics modelling in IL.2, IMHO, and that's why the developers said they're working on it.

 

Since it affects all of the aircraft, with effects being more noticeable depending on factors like moments of inertia for specific models, prop effects..., I believe it will take a very deep update of the whole IL.2 fleet, which is going to be quite a task... 

 

The overdone yaw-roll coupling is yet another promised enhancement for a future update. Actually this is the main announcement, but the changed operated to fix it can have an impact on the "alpha-wobbling" too...

Edited by jcomm

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Ahh, I thought so, though I think most people use the simpler FM = Flight Model.

 

Yes, that's why it's taking so long. They have to get it ready and tested for all aircraft at the same time.

 

This means that they are currently designing new aircraft for BoK with the "wrong" rudder model, to keep all aircraft on the same level.

 

Which means they plan to implement it after BOK is finished right? Still great piece of news and can't wait for it. Rudder authority, especially at lower speeds is something I'm still struggling with a lot. 

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Please, get me away from the horrible wobbling I just can´t fly like this anymore.  :wacko:

Is it true that it depend on the joystick brand and model you have or just a myth?  :unsure:

 

The planes don´t wobble by themself. It is a pilot induced wobble, and therefore the stick has an influence. And I think it is a big influence. The rest is training to move the stick smooth, 

Record your flight. If you experience the "wobble" check the stick movements in the track. You will see the stick "wobbling" at that point. In the airline industrie (one manufacturer is affected) it is called

pilot induced oscillation. And that is exactly what happens here. You can call it "overcontrolling" as well.

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Which means they plan to implement it after BOK is finished right? Still great piece of news and can't wait for it. Rudder authority, especially at lower speeds is something I'm still struggling with a lot. 

 

No, it's definitely part of BoK development and will be implemented before BoK is finished in December. Jason's statement about "later this summer" sounds promising. That would suggest, that the plan is to implement it in one of the summer updates, that won't feature any new aircraft. The Spitfire is pretty much the last one that will be released before they turn to the Kuban map and the career releases. The last batch of aircraft will come in the fall. 

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The planes don´t wobble by themself. It is a pilot induced wobble, and therefore the stick has an influence. 

Very much depends indeed on the physical stick you're using, on the stick settings (higher sensitivity gives you more smoothness), and on how you use that stick (preferably light-hand).

I've been using a T Flight Hotas X for years, just to realize finally that nothing helps, the huge 17% deadzone in the center makes it impossible to fly and to aim without serious wobbling (even with the pots replaced with Hall sensors). Recently I changed to a 15 years old MS Sidewinder FFB, and my hit percentage literally doubled, although I reduced sensitivity to 60%. I'm still not a marksman, and I'm still having some wobbling, but this is largely due to my undisciplined hands over-controlling in the fury of fight.

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No, it's definitely part of BoK development and will be implemented before BoK is finished in December. Jason's statement about "later this summer" sounds promising. That would suggest, that the plan is to implement it in one of the summer updates, that won't feature any new aircraft. The Spitfire is pretty much the last one that will be released before they turn to the Kuban map and the career releases. The last batch of aircraft will come in the fall. 

 

Yeah I missed his comment above, this is very exciting!

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Please, get me away from the horrible wobbling I just can´t fly like this anymore.  :wacko:

Is it true that it depend on the joystick brand and model you have or just a myth?  :unsure:

 

let me rephrase my statement:

Do other user with the SAITEK X52 Pro have a big wobbling problem as me?  :mellow:

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