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How on earth do you fight a Yak-1


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 Overheating oil and engine needed full open radiator in climbs which cause only 15 m/s maximum climb rate where in game is near 17 m/s

 

In which season/temperatures this should happen? At least in the Summer season with 25°C at low altitudes and climbing at 260-270 km/h you kinda need to have the radiators to 90-100%, at the same climbing conditions the Bf 109 does fine with around 20% open rads.

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In which season/temperatures this should happen? At least in the Summer season with 25°C at low altitudes and climbing at 260-270 km/h you kinda need to have the radiators to 90-100%, at the same climbing conditions the Bf 109 does fine with around 20% open rads.

Yeah, I'm at a loss on what he's getting at with not needing to open your radiators in a Yak.

 

I don't fly it much but last I flew it, temps were constantly getting too high in a 270 km/h climb during an Autumn map with my rads at ~50-60%

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VVS data and test show Yak1 69 serie maximum climb rate 15 m/s in ISA (other condition not know). Stiepanow for instruction to Yak pilots wrote that radiators during climb in any conditions should be open to maximum. Other books claims that Yaks even later types got problem with overheating engines. In BOS Yak1 69 got near 17 m/s in ISA

Edited by 303_Kwiatek
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VVS data and test show Yak1 69 serie maximum climb rate 15 m/s in ISA (other condition not know). Stiepanow for instruction to Yak pilots wrote that radiators during climb in any conditions should be open to maximum. Other books claims that Yaks even later types got problem with overheating engines. In BOS Yak1 69 got near 17 m/s in ISA

Yeah.  And I'm saying they do need to be opened.  Are you saying the Yak gets 17m/s climb with fully open radiators?

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  • 2 weeks later...

To the OP: In many ways the 109 vs Yak-1 matchup is similar to the Battle of Britain 109 vs Spitfire matchup. The 109 climbs better and is (slightly) faster, but the Spitfire turns better. As such some of the CloD material is very helpful, this is all pure gold-dust: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLUyEbp1iw_PrgHx7nji2ohQyhHqBPluh1

 

But in short: boom and zoom and energy fighting, don't get sucked into turn fights. If threatened dive away and run. You can use spiral climbs to build energy over an opponent providing they are not in guns range and don't have a substantial energy advantage. Avoid being low and slow on the deck, that is where they rule. If you let one get close on your six co-E, you should expect to die if they know what they are doing.

 

I have been outturned in this game by a 109 on the deck whilst I was flying a yak. In fact he got behind me after only a few circles. Not quite sure how he did it.

 

Perhaps he had an energy advantage, if you have energy to burn you can often out-turn a plane that in theory turns better.

Edited by Tomsk
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If a 109 (any 109) has a good amount of energy, he can pull an insanely tight turn for a couple 360s before having bled it all. A Yak trying the same will just stall out.

 

The Yak has a better sustained turn at all but the lowest speed, but the 109 can pull much tighter at the expense of a lot of energy.

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If a 109 (any 109) has a good amount of energy, he can pull an insanely tight turn for a couple 360s before having bled it all. A Yak trying the same will just stall out.

 

The Yak has a better sustained turn at all but the lowest speed, but the 109 can pull much tighter at the expense of a lot of energy.

 

Exactly. It's why I somewhat dislike the term "energy fighting", all fighting is energy fighting, even turn fighting is (ultimately) energy fighting. People think a lot in terms of plane capabilities (this plane turns better, this plane climbs better), and that can be useful. However as I've got more experienced the more I've understood that ultimately energy is king, and it's the energy states (and how well the pilot uses that energy) that dictates the fight.

Edited by Tomsk
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Well said!

 

Energy is definitely king. As soon as I came to know that, not just understand it, but really know that then my flying and fighting got substantially better. I still have to think about it sometimes but other times I just know what I need to do and I understand intuitively the relative energy states of me and the guy I'm fighting.

 

You can see the really superb pilots when they don't fuss around with a lot of details and spend the time just knowing what they need to do and spending their mental energy not so much on flying their plane but flying two or three moves ahead of their enemy - all aimed at achieving a superior position in terms of how much energy they have to spend.

 

The Yak-1 might have a good sustained turn at low speeds but I still think that's madness. Best to keep your speed around 300kph in a turn with a Yak. It gives you speed, turn and some options too.

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VVS data and test show Yak1 69 serie maximum climb rate 15 m/s in ISA (other condition not know). Stiepanow for instruction to Yak pilots wrote that radiators during climb in any conditions should be open to maximum. Other books claims that Yaks even later types got problem with overheating engines. In BOS Yak1 69 got near 17 m/s in ISA

17m/s with closed radiators.. But that's irrelevant, because on summer map yaks and laggs overheat with fully open Rads @ 100% throttle and RPM.

 

Manual states ...

Optimal water temperature 70°-85°

Maximum water temperature 100°

Optimal Oil Temperature 90°-100°

Maximum Oil Temperature 115°

now try climbing on summer map with fully open Rads without exceeding these limits.

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I'm sorry but I also see yaks burn a massive amount of energy in full tight circle turns and then point their nose upwards to get a shot at a 109 climbing away at 500 km/h. Simply doesn't feel very feasible, but heck what do I know (actually). Perhaps I don't read their energy states correctly?.

While 109s can pull very tight turns at the expense of bleeding a lot of energy, the Yaks have better sustained turn (a turn where it doesn't lose or gain energy). In very simplistic terms, this is a result of its lower wing loading (there are obviously other factors at play) The Yaks generally lose less energy in turns than the 109s.

 

The result is, that if you've been fighting a Yak for a few turns without any of you gaining on the other guy's tail, there is a good chance, that you have burned energy, while the Yak hasn't, giving him an advantage and a surplus to pop up and shoot at you, when you try to climb away.

 

If a 109 wants to turn with a Yak, he has to "close the deal" quickly or else get out of there. Use the 109's ability to pull a tight turn to get a shooting solution and then get out. A prolonged turn fight is only to the advantage of the Yak.

 

I say that as someone who flies Yaks way more than 109s. The only time I feel safe while fighting 109s, is if I manage to tie them up in a furball at low-medium altitude. In all other situations, the 109 is at an advantage or has the ability to quickly turn the tables.

Edited by Finkeren
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I know their sustained turn is better, I'm just alluding to the fact it feels tough meeting yaks on similar terms

 

For sure, it's hard to gain an advantage dogfighting co-E with a better turning plane. The correct approach is disengage, build energy and come back.

 

In all sims I played in the past, trying to point up at the guy that just dove on you with big speed advantage is a no-no. It's not like I turn with the guy and then try to climb away, he spoils the dive shot with one very tight turn and I simply start climbing away while he has a real chance of shooting at me (but usually doesn't connect). In BoS, it is a feasible and worthy strategy for VVS to hang with flaps for a shot after jerry BnZ

 

So the answer is "it depends". Whether they can pull up for a shot or not depends on how much speed they have. If they have sufficient speed they can pull up for a shot, it's that simple. It's also worth noting that planes with low wing loading (such as the Yak) are better at helicoptering, as they handle better at low speeds.

 

That said "helicoptering" for the shot isn't particularly a good move on their part, and there's a lot you can do to nullify and exploit it.

  • First when doing your BnZ attack offset it slightly (don't attack dead astern) so that your pull out is at an angle, that is usually enough to prevent any serious helicoptering.
  • Secondly if they do go for the shot, make it hard for them, don't go straight up but put in a slight turn. This complicates the shot significantly. You can also add a little rolling as a low-cost way to complicate the shot even more. 
  • Also by gently turning you can often set them up for a rope-a-dope, tighten your turn as your speed drops and drop on them as they stall out below you.
  • Or even better fly with a wingman and stagger your BnZ attacks, when they try to helicopter up to you your teammate will be barrelling in and there is no easier shot than a plane that is out of speed, hanging on the prop and transfixed on the plane in front of them.
  • Lastly, be wary of doing steep vertical exits from BnZ attacks unless you are confident you have a really large energy advantage, generally a shallow zoom is a lot safer than a steep one. 

 

" It "feels" like they just have to pull the stick towards you as hard as they can, while you must master rolls, rudder, predicting moves, throttle, timing, etc".  

 

I've seen it done, never said it's not doable. 

 

Yup, energy fighting definitely has a steeper learning curve. Most new pilots tend to turn fight instinctively, and the Yak is better at that. Also pilots online are very apt to get into turn fights even when pretty much the only thing they have to do to survive is not get into a turn fight. You'd see that a lot with US fighters against Japanese ones, the US fighters are often so much faster that if flown correctly the Japanese planes wouldn't stand a hope of touching them .... but US pilots would turn fight with them anyway, and (of course) lose.

Edited by Tomsk
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In BoS, it is a feasible and worthy strategy for VVS to hang with flaps for a shot after jerry BnZ

If a Yak prop-hangs trying to get a shot at you, it means one of two things:

 

Either he is making a huge mistake and opens himself up to a second attack to take a pot-shot with very low chance of hitting you.

 

Or else it means, that you made a mistake by overshooting him at very close distance, giving him a chance to pitch up and shoot you at close range.

 

I find, that when I'm being BnZed by a 109, trying to prop-hang is a waste of energy, unless the enemy is very close. You havd so little control authority while hanging there, that it's next to impossible to hit, and very easy for the 109 to avoid.

 

Remember: BnZ does not make your attack stronger, it makes your defense stronger. Use it to keep distance to deny the enemy a shot at less than 200m distance.

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I allude to this sort of thing in one of the threads here about the upcoming Pacific expansions.

 

F6F pilots in sims often have the same problem when fighting the A6M.   They know they are in the faster, better plane so they take that as an automatic win button, which it most certainly is not.

When bested by a Zero, it's off to the forum with cries that the Mitsubishi is "overmodeled".  Then they point at the history of the late war era where Zeros were shot down in large numbers, not realizing that they are taking the stats totally out of context.  By that time in the war the Japanese had exhausted their supply of really good pilots, so the Americans (and British Commonwealth) were basically facing a poorly trained enemy.

 

That does not happen in our virtual world.   When you take up your 109 against a Yak you are NOT facing poorly trained boys flung into the war because that's all they had, you are facing virtual pilots with often a decade or more of "combat" experience.  They have kill numbers that make Hartmann look like a total noob.

 

People just don't take that into account when comparing combat outcomes in virtual air combat, it's always "I got shot down, so his plane is overmodeled", when the reality often is that the pilot you faced is the thing that's "overmodeled".

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Depends on altitude.

Unfortunately I only get to fight the AI (ping issues since I live in Australia), 

 

but against any Russian fighter bar the Rata at 1000M I have no real issues in my trusty G2 (I don't have BOK so no G4 for me... yet) unless I do something really stupid (I can still shoot down the rata just different tactics needed)

I have both aircraft set to the same fuel config in terms of Litres (I usually go a tad more since I have 3 "rounds" of enemies) with them set to ace.

The only time I have an issue is at the very start in the head on against the Yak 1B which is rather determined to try to shoot me down at all costs (and usually ends up diving into the ground.. which deprives me of a victory.. but is still rather amusing)


However the higher you go, the 109 really needs to focus on only fighting in the vertical.

Edited by novicebutdeadly
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The secret in a 109 is to keep your speed up at all times and (at least for me) NEVER EVER dogfight, especially if u r alone. Fighting with a wingman is another game and u can adopt other strategies but when alone I never dogfight ... its one pass haul ass for me ... always using the element of surprise in ur attacks. I just started flying VVS as well this month and the same rules apply.

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I'm sorry but I also see yaks burn a massive amount of energy in full tight circle turns and then point their nose upwards to get a shot at a 109 climbing away at 500 km/h. Simply doesn't feel very feasible, but heck what do I know (actually). Perhaps I don't read their energy states correctly? Sometimes I do spiral climbs or really up the climb angle to screw them, shallow climbs seem to work poorly inmost situations where you haven't build distance to begin with. According to WoL I have ~60 hours online flight time (I started this January). 

 

I think you need quite a bit of skill/feel to deal with yak1b at similar energy state. It "feels" like they just have to pull the stick towards you as hard as they can, while you must master rolls, rudder, predicting moves, throttle, timing, etc. It truly feels like you are up against something that spontaneously regenerates energy no matter how hard they turn; I tend to try to get one or two (non) opportunities then I bug out when it's clear it won't happen (given I have altitude). Flying La's and Lagg's seems comparatively much much harder though.

 

With that said I exclusively fly 109s (mainly F4). Flying Russians is 100% more daunting for sure. 

 

It sounds like you haven't flown the Yak-1 or 1B because they aren't as easy to nose point as you make it sound. To be clear, they have excellent handling for the most part, but they are going to be fighting the rudder a fair bit too and despite their fairly low wing loading a stall can take you by surprise fairly quickly in a situation where the Bf109s slats would mitigate that stall onset altogether. There are pros and cons back and forth.

 

The issue that people often have is that they don't think about angles when disengaging and they get shot by what they think is a "helicoptering" Yak. Turns out that the Yak had way more energy than they assumed AND that they pulled away from a choice of angles that actually made it easier for the Yak to then pull lead and fire a shot. A Yak at 400kph or 450kph has lots of options. If you're zooming at 500 or 550 you're going to be in range for at least a couple of seconds.

 

Still, pulling a nose up to shoot at a rapidly zooming Bf109 is a bit of a desperation move but all it takes is a half second pull (with some decent energy) on some players poor pull away angles and you can get a couple of bullets on target to ruin his day. I've done it and it doesn't expose me in a Yak to much danger. Unless his wingman is tightly coordinated and can be on top of me almost immediately.

 

The story here is that you need to be thinking about energy and angles at all times. Not just on the boom/attack phase but you need to be planning your zoom/disengagement phase after the attack too. Thinking about what angles will make it most advantageous for you to zoom back up to altitude maintaining E while also lessening the chances for them to nose high for a desperation shot. You want to make it hard for those to happen in the first place.

 

It's the same for the Zero vs Hellcat matchup and for so many other fights between warbirds.

Strange casue VVS test proved then Bf 109 F-4 was better in sustained turns then Yak-1 69 series :P In BOS it is opposite

 

Better than the 69 series? Or earlier versions which were heavier, lower on engine power and less aerodynamically refined?

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Fast check:

 

 

The following information comes directly from Soviet Combat Aircraft of the Second World War Vol.1 by Gordon And Khazanov. The purpose of this section of each performance thread is to give an understanding of how each fighter was perceived at the time of its operational combat use.

 

 

Page 124:

" By early 1942 the Yak-1 had proved to be the best Soviet fighter with regard to overall performance, but it was still bettered in combat by the Messerschmitt Bf 109F. When the Bf 109F-2 was replaced by the 'F-4' (by the summer of 1942) with a more powerful, high altitude engine and improved armour and armament, the discrepancy was even more noticeable."..." Its (Bf 109F-4) superiority over the Yak-1 in climb rate became more impressive, and manoeuverability was of the same order."

 

Page 125:

" A  simulated combat between a Yak-1 M-105PF and a Bf 109F at the NII VVS revealed that the Bf had only marginally superior manoeuvrability at 3,300ft. (1,000m), though the German fighter could gain substantial advantage over the Yak-1 within four or five nose-to-tail turns. At 9,800ft. (3,000m) the capabilities of both fighters were nearly equal, combat essentially being reduced to head-on attacks. As the Yak-1 was more manoeuvrable at altitudes over 16,400ft. (5,000m)." "...the 'F-4' with the more powerful DB601E engine.....completely outperformed the Yak-1 M-105PF."

 

 

     The following information came from 'Bf 109E/F vs. Yak-1/7 Eastern Front 1941-42' by Dmitriy Khazanov & Aleksander Medved.

 

Page 67/68:

     "The dogfights with enemy aircraft over Stalingrad were desperate, and the VVS-KA suffered great losses, especially in August and September. The reasons for this were the still-inferior flying characteristics of the Yak-1 against the Bf 109F-4 ad the new Bf 109G-2, and the high vulnerability of the Soviet fighter, which quickly caught fire when explosive rounds hit the fuel tanks or cockpit area. Compared with the all-metal enemy aircraft, the Yak-1 had little protection for its large wing fuel tanks. And because of  the poor view from the cockpit, and the risk of the windscreen being sprayed with oil, pilots preferred to have the canopy open during combat sorties."

 

But i read more detailed info about these test where was Yak-1 69 series mentioned just need to check where i find these. Probably Gordon Kazhanow book. As i remember combat test vas Yak-1 69 series and 109 F-2 with damaged supercharger ( not full power at higher alts)

Edited by 303_Kwiatek
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Fast check:

 

 

The following information comes directly from Soviet Combat Aircraft of the Second World War Vol.1 by Gordon And Khazanov. The purpose of this section of each performance thread is to give an understanding of how each fighter was perceived at the time of its operational combat use.

 

 

Page 124:

" By early 1942 the Yak-1 had proved to be the best Soviet fighter with regard to overall performance, but it was still bettered in combat by the Messerschmitt Bf 109F. When the Bf 109F-2 was replaced by the 'F-4' (by the summer of 1942) with a more powerful, high altitude engine and improved armour and armament, the discrepancy was even more noticeable."..." Its (Bf 109F-4) superiority over the Yak-1 in climb rate became more impressive, and manoeuverability was of the same order."

 

Page 125:

" A simulated combat between a Yak-1 M-105PF and a Bf 109F at the NII VVS revealed that the Bf had only marginally superior manoeuvrability at 3,300ft. (1,000m), though the German fighter could gain substantial advantage over the Yak-1 within four or five nose-to-tail turns. At 9,800ft. (3,000m) the capabilities of both fighters were nearly equal, combat essentially being reduced to head-on attacks. As the Yak-1 was more manoeuvrable at altitudes over 16,400ft. (5,000m)." "...the 'F-4' with the more powerful DB601E engine.....completely outperformed the Yak-1 M-105PF."

 

 

The following information came from 'Bf 109E/F vs. Yak-1/7 Eastern Front 1941-42' by Dmitriy Khazanov & Aleksander Medved.

 

Page 67/68:

"The dogfights with enemy aircraft over Stalingrad were desperate, and the VVS-KA suffered great losses, especially in August and September. The reasons for this were the still-inferior flying characteristics of the Yak-1 against the Bf 109F-4 ad the new Bf 109G-2, and the high vulnerability of the Soviet fighter, which quickly caught fire when explosive rounds hit the fuel tanks or cockpit area. Compared with the all-metal enemy aircraft, the Yak-1 had little protection for its large wing fuel tanks. And because of the poor view from the cockpit, and the risk of the windscreen being sprayed with oil, pilots preferred to have the canopy open during combat sorties."

 

But i read more detailed info about these test where was Yak-1 69 series mentioned just need to check where i find these. Probably Gordon Kazhanow book. As i remember combat test vas Yak-1 69 series and 109 F-2 with damaged supercharger ( not full power at higher alts)

So you essentially wanna buff the already outperforming Germans, and Nerf the [edited] Russians..?

LW players already out number VVS 3:1 and they have better aircraft. What more do YOU want?.. Oh yeah, no bar on the fw190. What about every other aircraft with armoured glass?.. There's no mention of the P40, id much rather fix P40 then fix glass on 190 Lmao

Edited by SYN_Haashashin
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"snip"

Nuuuu lolwaffe too gut - nuuu pls dunt buff über lolwaffe, halp helpless vvs. 

This is what you were trying to say, right? 

 Gotta love how someone brings historical evidence to the table, and then proceeds to get hammered by a hero of the soviet union, for being a luftwhiner, this community.  :happy:

Edited by JG19_Mueller
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So you essentially wanna buff the already outperforming Germans, and Nerf the shitty Russians..?

 

No one has suggested that. ShamrockOneFive asked a question, and Kwiatek quoted a source, that's all.

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There is a myth in this community that there is no need for balance in a Combat Flightsimulator. There is, there will always be a need for balance in a FPS game, witch this is .

We do not have the manpower to replace those fed up on red side. I personally think this massive blue side complaint about own aircraft and red side "gold" aircraft will bring on the need for coop missions online. 

There is never ever f***king ever never ending debate about frustrated lw pilots claiming they fly shit and russian side fly good stuff. When one stop , another take over.

Edited by 216th_LuseKofte
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There is a myth in this community that there is no need for balance in a Combat Flightsimulator. There is, there will always be a need for balance in a FPS game, witch this is .

 

I agree, I would usually prefer it to be done by careful plane selection than over modelling particular planes ... but whatever gets the job done. And I say this as someone who (mostly) flies LW.

 

 

I mean that I see players who can keep up with yaks without energy fighting, just sheer out flying them, really good use of barrel rolls, timing, and predicting their moves. 

 

Oh you absolutely can, especially if the other pilot is not so experienced. I wouldn't try and rely on it though, some of those Yak pilots are pretty darned good ;-) It's also not particularly conducive to survival even if you're good at it. Multiplayer combat is rarely guaranteed to stay one-on-one and this kind of flying is extremely taxing on the SA.

Edited by Tomsk
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Fast check:

 

 

The following information comes directly from Soviet Combat Aircraft of the Second World War Vol.1 by Gordon And Khazanov. The purpose of this section of each performance thread is to give an understanding of how each fighter was perceived at the time of its operational combat use.

 

 

Page 124:

" By early 1942 the Yak-1 had proved to be the best Soviet fighter with regard to overall performance, but it was still bettered in combat by the Messerschmitt Bf 109F. When the Bf 109F-2 was replaced by the 'F-4' (by the summer of 1942) with a more powerful, high altitude engine and improved armour and armament, the discrepancy was even more noticeable."..." Its (Bf 109F-4) superiority over the Yak-1 in climb rate became more impressive, and manoeuverability was of the same order."

 

Page 125:

" A  simulated combat between a Yak-1 M-105PF and a Bf 109F at the NII VVS revealed that the Bf had only marginally superior manoeuvrability at 3,300ft. (1,000m), though the German fighter could gain substantial advantage over the Yak-1 within four or five nose-to-tail turns. At 9,800ft. (3,000m) the capabilities of both fighters were nearly equal, combat essentially being reduced to head-on attacks. As the Yak-1 was more manoeuvrable at altitudes over 16,400ft. (5,000m)." "...the 'F-4' with the more powerful DB601E engine.....completely outperformed the Yak-1 M-105PF."

 

 

     The following information came from 'Bf 109E/F vs. Yak-1/7 Eastern Front 1941-42' by Dmitriy Khazanov & Aleksander Medved.

 

Page 67/68:

     "The dogfights with enemy aircraft over Stalingrad were desperate, and the VVS-KA suffered great losses, especially in August and September. The reasons for this were the still-inferior flying characteristics of the Yak-1 against the Bf 109F-4 ad the new Bf 109G-2, and the high vulnerability of the Soviet fighter, which quickly caught fire when explosive rounds hit the fuel tanks or cockpit area. Compared with the all-metal enemy aircraft, the Yak-1 had little protection for its large wing fuel tanks. And because of  the poor view from the cockpit, and the risk of the windscreen being sprayed with oil, pilots preferred to have the canopy open during combat sorties."

 

But i read more detailed info about these test where was Yak-1 69 series mentioned just need to check where i find these. Probably Gordon Kazhanow book. As i remember combat test vas Yak-1 69 series and 109 F-2 with damaged supercharger ( not full power at higher alts)

 

Thanks! Very interesting. I'll allow myself to remain skeptical of these reports but they are convincing enough sources too. A test specific to the 69 series would be VERY interesting indeed!

 

So you essentially wanna buff the already outperforming Germans, and Nerf the shitty Russians..?

LW players already out number VVS 3:1 and they have better aircraft. What more do Luftwhiners want?.. Oh yeah, no bar on the fw190. What about every other aircraft with armoured glass?.. There's no mention of the P40, id much rather fix P40 then fix glass on 190 Lmao

 

Just a question and and answer from Kwaitek. I thought, and to some degree still think that the Yak-1 Series 69 has better sustained turn than the Bf109 although I think thats only the case at medium speeds and the Bf109 might be better at the slower speeds. Still its an interesting set of information that he was able to dig up. Legitimately fascinating to me.

 

And there is no buffing and nerfing in my mind. There are specific aircraft and their historical performances either better or worse or about on par with what has been modeled to date. I always want to see the aircraft performing as they should rather than seeing any sort of divide pro or con to one side.

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. There is a reason I fly German, and it's because I want the better machine. Good luck with your La's and Lagg's, jesus christ...

Was the 'Jesus Christ' a scoff at the VVS peasantry as you turn up your nose whilst wearing a home-made Wehrmacht helmet? Why be so disdainful and supercilious about it? There are many folks who would like the chance to fly all the machines who are genuinely just being good sports trying to balance the sides for a functional MP environment.

 

To fly a better machine against a side already outnumbered 2 to 1, day in day out; is that really good for your ego? How is that fun?

Edited by B0SS
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The test between 109 F-4 and Yak-1 sounds interesting. I wonder the engine settings for the F-4 they were using, with 1.42 ata the extra HP would surely help for the F-4.

Combat test was between Yak1 69 series and 109 F-2 with broken supercharger (not full performance at high alt) not F-4 Edited by 303_Kwiatek
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  • 4 weeks later...

If a 109 (any 109) has a good amount of energy, he can pull an insanely tight turn for a couple 360s before having bled it all. A Yak trying the same will just stall out.

 

The Yak has a better sustained turn at all but the lowest speed, but the 109 can pull much tighter at the expense of a lot of energy.

 

This is not true. It's not even logical really. If a 109 is coming down on a Yak with high energy, the Yak pilot is almost always going to pull the stick into his crotch or bellyflop. The 109 will never have a low enough energy state to follow that maneuver. 

 

The only time what you're saying is true, is if they met co-energy, the 109 is behind the Yak and the Yak is trying to make a lateral turn, and even then, for the 109 to follow the Yak into a lateral turn would be a bad strategy for him. 

 

Respectfully, what you're saying makes no sense. 

Edited by GridiroN
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Go try fight at Berloga then revise that mkay?

 

Why would I join Berloga's artificial dogfighting environment to attempt to verify your opinion which I already know to be false...? What an odd request...

 

In any event, I have flown Russian, and tested the planes myself. I know what it's like on both sides.  

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There is a myth in this community that there is no need for balance in a Combat Flightsimulator. There is, there will always be a need for balance in a FPS game, witch this is .

 

I agree, I would usually prefer it to be done by careful plane selection than over modelling particular planes ... but whatever gets the job done.

 

 

 

 

I couldn't disagree more with the last part.  What server operators do in their maps is one thing, but I hope the developers never go down the path of providing artificial balances....The developers are striving for historical accuracy in their flight models and other things, and that is what I would like to see continue, without any regard for "balance".  I might not like to fly any given plane if I know it is a flying coffin, but I would rather fly a historically outmatched, crappy plane and lose, rather than win because something has been gamed-up to make it easier for me or more difficult for my opponents.

Edited by Iceworm
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I always fly in at least a pair, sometimes in a groups of 8 or more. but never alone. 

Salutations pilots,

 

I personally doubt those that argue against players flying alone. Most are delighted to see a lone wolf enemy craft. Actually, it could be very rewarding to fly single... shoot down one or two enemy craft and safely land at ones home base.

 

Come on now... I'm sure there are lone wolves out there that are deadly pilots all by themselves. But I also suspect that such pilots are very prudent in their target selections, craft abilities, tactics and have very good situational awareness. Oh, and the successful ones fly to survive and RTB.

 

I salute all you lone wolves out there. :salute:

Edited by Thad
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Why would I join Berloga's artificial dogfighting environment to attempt to verify your opinion which I already know to be false...? What an odd request...

 

In any event, I have flown Russian, and tested the planes myself. I know what it's like on both sides.

What you write is false because you assumed​ tremendous difference of energy between 109 and Yak but it's not always true and yours description is to simple . If you can't imagine that go see that on "artificial" dogfight Berloga server. Edited by 307_Tomcat
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