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9./JG27DavidRed

why not Africa?

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Which I think adds to their frustration, since that slams the door on Africa ever being visited by this team.

There's no way they're ever going to duplicate the effort by Team Fusion. (and I don't blame them) That's just nail in the coffin time for Africa and BoX.

I thought the flight models etc on their end might improve now that they have access to the source code, but I'm not up to speed on what's happening over there.

 

So for most guys who like Africa, I'm empathetic, as I can put myself in their shoes and I know how I'd feel. Hopefully CloD/Africa is at least a minor saving grace in that department for some.

It's the few toxic children that put me in the "I'll be thinking of you when I'm flying my Zeke or Wildcat over...well NOT Africa" mode...but that's not so mature on my part either. Fun - yes.

 

The good thing is that I think a lot of the "Pacific..meh" types who are making assumptions are going to be pleasantly surprised by the experience once they give it a shot - especially with more maps, islands etc.

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I also understand that this majority does not like to be silenced by a small group of ignorants.

 

And other group of ignorants don't realise that forum has two sides, in other side Pacific was more popular than Mediterranean and Western front (in this order), so...  ;)

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I get it... but I don't really get it. I like World War II aviation. I think its utterly fascinating and I'll gladly play a sim that lets me fly authentically and lovingly crafted warbirds over whatever frozen steppe, dessert wasteland or bug infested jungle they care to throw at me. I do it because I like the flying and the combat and the aircraft. I have my favourites but I'll gladly have fun no matter what. If they said that the next addition was Battle of Khalkin Gol... Sign me up! Whatever. Give me planes to fly.

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Pacific is a niche of the niche theatre for WW2 combat flight sim?

 

Really?

 

No wonder reply was "i know better than u"

 

Based on casual observation of hyperlobby over a long period of years, yes, it's a niche.  There was ever only 1 Pacific server:  Zekes v Wildcats.  Gambit will give you anecdata about how he "ran some coops", but there were literally pages of populated servers, and only a single one of those was dedicated to the pacific theatre.

 

It's a niche whether you care to admit it or not.

 

Everyone keeps mentioning the 109s in connection with the potential Africa map. What about the British and Commonwealth aircraft? What about the Italian aircraft? There is absolutely no need at all to include additional 109s for an Africa campaign, we could make do with the ones we already have. What many of us wanted was particularly the Allied aircraft there. Hurricanes, a better P40, maybe Gladiators for Malta... To be very honest I  very much doubt that anyone's reason for wanting the Africa map was anything at all to do with 109s and 190s so to keep throwing that one up is just ridiculous.

 

They keep mentioning 109s because it's very trendy on here to be an arrogant prick and constantly look down upon people who like to fly Luftwaffe, and it strengthens their argument if they overlook the scads of Allied aircraft we'd be getting in, say, a tactical 1943/44 scenario.

 

And a lot of my aversion to CloD is that it had such an awful reputation at the time. No doubt this was in part due to some of the OS issues with awful systems like Windows 8 at the time as well as the well documented problems with the title. I accept that Team Fusion have done a great job and salute 1C/777 for their recent announcement that they will help support it for those that are interested. I am just not one of those.

 

It's not just OS issues.  CLOD was a bad game through and through, and we in the community were routinely misled during its development.

 

Which I think adds to their frustration, since that slams the door on Africa ever being visited by this team.

There's no way they're ever going to duplicate the effort by Team Fusion. (and I don't blame them) That's just nail in the coffin time for Africa and BoX.

I thought the flight models etc on their end might improve now that they have access to the source code, but I'm not up to speed on what's happening over there.

 

So for most guys who like Africa, I'm empathetic, as I can put myself in their shoes and I know how I'd feel. Hopefully CloD/Africa is at least a minor saving grace in that department for some.

It's the few toxic children that put me in the "I'll be thinking of you when I'm flying my Zeke or Wildcat over...well NOT Africa" mode...but that's not so mature on my part either. Fun - yes.

 

The good thing is that I think a lot of the "Pacific..meh" types who are making assumptions are going to be pleasantly surprised by the experience once they give it a shot - especially with more maps, islands etc.

 

The problem for me at least is that what I dislike about the Pacific are not things that can be remedied.  Fly into a cloud of flak to attack ships?  No thanks.  I'm here to play against other pilots, not against the flak's random number generator.  Try to land on a carrier while people are constantly spawning and there's no ATC?  No thanks.

 

Maybe if you're the offline type I could see the appeal of it but I don't enjoy playing against the AI.

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Just try imagine that beautiful islands, palm trees, white foam on wave crests... and airwar above it let's do not deny this naive childish dream to continue, what is more worth like not the true smile of happy "customer".

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Just try imagine that beautiful islands, palm trees, white foam on wave crests... and airwar above it let's do not deny this naive childish dream to continue, what is more worth like not the true smile of happy "customer".

I'm with you there :biggrin: ever since CFS 2 I'd wished to see the scenario again (PF aside). Now it's something like a wish come true.

 

I could actually image an Italy expansion should we get beyond the pacific.

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Personally for me any theatre is okay, although the Pacific less so than others, whatever theatre it brings with it the same old aircraft and arguments but with the tremendous improvements the modern game offers in graphics and detail to aircraft, maps and objects.

 

Sadly I am no longer able to fly much these days so will not get the same enjoyment from the new generation of games as I did with the older IL-2 1946 but it will be interesting to keep supporting and looking in to see where all this goes. 

 

 

So, if we got an Africa expansion; we'd be likely to expect a Hurricane, tropicalised Spitfire, Gladiator, Cr.42, Fiat G.50, Br.20, Mc.202, Blenheim and Wellington.  Plus a 109E and F trop, Ju-88, Stuka, He-111 and 110, P-40E, and even a MS.520 and F4F.  We might also want a couple of floatplanes.  Perhaps a Sunderland or He-115....

 

Which is precisely what Cliffs of Dover is doing right now.

 

 

But that means you have two use two different games which is something most players do not want and as the developers tell us and those that play them can testify are very much a different experience.  What people really want is to add new theatres to the current BoS, BoM and BoK, now seeing as we cannot add those aircraft from CLOD into this game so we are told that means adding the Africa experience to this franchise with all the variety it offers in the aircraft you mention that as a further benefit can mostly be used in further expansions.

 

Now I for one bemoan the current iterations of the current plane set even though it is logical and historical for the east, from a business perspective though Africa could offer a new theatre relatively cheaply once BoK is finished and we have those western types included in the game.

 

Some Luftwaffe aircraft used in the east had been transferred from desert theatres so to include tropical filters in this current set up is acceptable, not sure about the western types off hand though, so with a few reasonably straight forward alterations and a much simpler map in regard to object density we could go to Africa.

 

Now the changes that Team Fusion have made to CLOD are amazing and will hopefully now improve further but we cannot continue to say that because CLOD is going somewhere this particular game should not, they are two very different games and as much as I admire the work of the T.F. team it does not mean that the two sets of players will automatically buy into both so each should develop independently in their own way even if that means doing similar things.

 

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. :biggrin:  

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"Based on casual observation of hyperlobby"

 

Perfect.

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Just try imagine that beautiful islands, palm trees, white foam on wave crests... and airwar above it let's do not deny this naive childish dream to continue, what is more worth like not the true smile of happy "customer".

we are talking about Sand Island and Eastern Island :D

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I always preferred Silent Hunter IV Pacific scenarios.Warm weather,Havai,Bali,San Francisco. I even had an icecream machine in my sub IIRC.

In SH III Atlantic it was only misery of cold and stormy weather with no icecream and food smell after diesel fuel  :biggrin:

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So, if we got an Africa expansion; we'd be likely to expect a Hurricane, tropicalised Spitfire, Gladiator, Cr.42, Fiat G.50, Br.20, Mc.202, Blenheim and Wellington.  Plus a 109E and F trop, Ju-88, Stuka, He-111 and 110, P-40E, and even a MS.520 and F4F.  We might also want a couple of floatplanes.  Perhaps a Sunderland or He-115....

 

Which is precisely what Cliffs of Dover is doing right now.

 

TF have done a remarkable job keeping CLOD alive, but TBH I'd much rather see a sequel using the current game engine, made by the current devs, than have TF try to keep a game based on the old game engine alive.

 

When the pacific series comes out does anyone know if they will basically be map / airframe packs like BOS /BOM /BOK are to each other, or would it be more likely to be an entirely different series of games ?

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Can we all just enjoy what we have and what we will have ? We will have more of greater variety and fidelity. I see no reason to complain.

 

This.

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Can we all just enjoy what we have and what we will have ? We will have more of greater variety and fidelity. I see no reason to complain.

+1

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=LD=Hiromachi, on 15 May 2017 - 18:10, said:

 

Can we all just enjoy what we have and what we will have ? We will have more of greater variety and fidelity. I see no reason to complain.

 

 

No gentlemen, if a large group in our forum finds that the pacific decision is the wrong one, then it’s their legitimate right to express it here.

snapback.png

 

 

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No gentlemen, if a large group in our forum finds that the pacific decision is the wrong one, then it’s their legitimate right to express it here.

 

 

You've expressed it. Feel better now? Can we move along and appreciate what we do have and how far things have come?

This from the guy who complains so fervently about the ju52 and the possibility of more cargo aircraft. Hilarious

 

Saving face.

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I get it... but I don't really get it. I like World War II aviation. I think its utterly fascinating and I'll gladly play a sim that lets me fly authentically and lovingly crafted warbirds over whatever frozen steppe, dessert wasteland or bug infested jungle they care to throw at me. I do it because I like the flying and the combat and the aircraft. I have my favourites but I'll gladly have fun no matter what. If they said that the next addition was Battle of Khalkin Gol... Sign me up! Whatever. Give me planes to fly.

 

^^^^

 

Exactly.... and I am pretty sure some Zeroes ended up in Russia for testing etc or maybe had combat... its not a 100% accurate sim.... its more of a game so give us a landscape with a bit of sea and we can use our imagination. I'd love to have a zero or even a gladiator or even a Lancaster.... I'll gladly pay.

 

DCS are doing it.... you get a p51, Dora,Spit and Me109 and you fly it over wherever with powerlines and stuff. If the DEVS give us standalone planes I'm pretty sure we'll buy em and we'll fly em! 

Edited by JG19_DendroAspis

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=LD=Hiromachi, on 15 May 2017 - 18:10, said:

 

Can we all just enjoy what we have and what we will have ? We will have more of greater variety and fidelity. I see no reason to complain.

 

 

No gentlemen, if a large group in our forum finds that the pacific decision is the wrong one, then it’s their legitimate right to express it here.

snapback.png

 

 

 

In a thread about Africa?  :rolleyes:

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This from the guy who complains so fervently about the ju52 and the possibility of more cargo aircraft. Hilarious

My sincerity is perceived by you as a humor? What a distorted prejudiced narrow mind you have.

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My sincerity is perceived by you as a humor? What a distorted prejudiced narrow mind you have.

I find humour in your hypocrisy.

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I'm quite new to regularly browsing the forums ( thank the vr update ) I've been really impressed by the general maturity with posts in this forum until the last few posts in this thread.

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Hello Mr. beenherelongenoughthatiknoweverythingbutknownothing

 

Save your own pitiful face by start gifting out bos products to other community members.

 

Thanks~

 

I've actually bought three copies in addition of my own (2xBOS and 1xBOM) and an additional Yak/Ju 52 for the handful of friends that I know in SD who are in to CFS.

 

Thanks for the advice, though..?  :huh:

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We are all hypocrites. We cannot see ourselves or judge ourselves the way we see and judge others.

 

That said, the difference between certain members here and me is that when I sin, i know i am sinning. Others are busy sugar coating, fabricating their stance (i.e. i am not complaining, i am just expressing my opinion) and denying realities (pacific is a niche of niche in ww2 sim).

I've actually bought three copies in addition of my own (2xBOS and 1xBOM) and an additional Yak/Ju 52 for the handful of friends that I know in SD who are in to CFS.

 

Thanks for the advice, though..? :huh:

Good job. Add 3 copies of BOK to your list and do note, buying them (bos and bom) on sales is considered as a cheat ;)

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-snip-

 

Add 3 copies of BOK to your list and do note, buying them (bos and bom) on sales is considered as a cheat ;)

 

Put your money where your (incredibly loud) mouth is.

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In any case, i am going on a long leave from forums. Take care of your selves and behave. Listen to moderators and Jason.

 

Those who want to get a piece of me for whatever the reason, find me in coconuts server.

 

Bye

Oh i have bot all bos bom bok purposely on non sales + gifting out bok as well.

 

Thanks for the advice though? Heh

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^^nice, maybe the insults and personal attacks can stop now in this thread and we can keep continue some sort of discussion.

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I always preferred Silent Hunter IV Pacific scenarios.Warm weather,Havai,Bali,San Francisco. I even had an icecream machine in my sub IIRC.

In SH III Atlantic it was only misery of cold and stormy weather with no icecream and food smell after diesel fuel  :biggrin:

I loved running my U-boot on the Pacific, was absolutely amazing to play along Japanese fleet, start routine patrols from Singapore, Palembang or other places and reach Pearl Harbor, enter it quietly and sink a few ships there. 

SHIV was a great fun. 

I liked SH III, but SH V killed whole genere for me. 

 

No gentlemen, if a large group in our forum finds that the pacific decision is the wrong one, then it’s their legitimate right to express it here.

 

Your call, feel free to express your concerns. 

 

Based on casual observation of hyperlobby over a long period of years, yes, it's a niche.  There was ever only 1 Pacific server:  Zekes v Wildcats.  Gambit will give you anecdata about how he "ran some coops", but there were literally pages of populated servers, and only a single one of those was dedicated to the pacific theatre.

 

It's a niche whether you care to admit it or not.

Well, I did not spend time watching hyperlobby, I spent time playing.

 

In regard to popularity however it seems that it sold quite well, at least according to Oleg :

 

Fred: Before IL-2 1946, which was a merger of many other titles and expansion packs, which titles sold the most – the original Forgotten Battles with its Eastern Front focus, Ace expansion pack with its Western Front (Ardennes, Normandy) focus, or Pacific Fighters?

Oleg: Aces Expansion Pack sold the worst. Forgotten Battles and Pacific Fighters both sold very well.

Source: http://www.simhq.com/air-combat/il-2-sturmovik-part3.html

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i dont think pacific will sell bad...but i do think that staying there for several releases in a row will be bad for overall sales, as it just leaves potential customers who would be interested in other theaters out for too long.they might lose interest alltogether for this simulation and never return.

from all the guys i know, im only aware of a single person who actually is looking forward to the pacific scenario...and no, its not only guys with a JG tag in front of their names...

sure, im convinced, that many do look forward to the pacific, but rest assured, that there are probably as many people who are no il2 customers yet, only because there is no western front...

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I would prefer also TF to work with BoX engine on the Med scenario. Things that can be done by 3rd party = map,ground,naval units,buildings,items...environment. Leaving airplanes for 1CGS developers. That's what I would call progress. Dwelling in old game engine is not a progress in my world.

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im very excited for the pacific. I know the horse has beaten so many times, so I'll rephrase it differently than "i'd rather this, that, and the other."

The South Pacific Theater is very underappreciated imo. Port Moresby campaign and the Darwin Defenders, Guadalcanal, Rabaul and the Bikini Atoll. I understand the complications and unrealistic option that would be trying to recreate a Solomon Islands campaign. It's simply too large. One day maybe! But in the meantime I will play IL2 Midway religiously!

I don't know if anyone remembers Targetware, but I used to play the shit out of Target Rabaul. Target Tobruk was really good too, actually. It's such a shame they went under. TT was a very enjoyable Med theater sim while it lasted 
 

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... I liked SH III, but SH V killed whole genere for me. 

 

Your call, feel free to express your concerns. 

 

Well, I did not spend time watching hyperlobby, I spent time playing.

 

In regard to popularity however it seems that it sold quite well, at least according to Oleg :

Source: http://www.simhq.com/air-combat/il-2-sturmovik-part3.html

 

I have done this extensively after the announcement of Jason about the Pacific theatre and in other occasions.

 

Pls see link:     https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/25070-discussion-battle-kuban-announcement/page-24

 

But unfortunately there are people who do not see or do not want to see some important arguments for an MTO scenario:

 

- A PTO sim is a niche product in a niche market

- The PTO-module of the original IL-2 did not sell as well as some people want to make us believe.

- MTO has almost everything: Carrier shuttle flights to Malta, carrier missions, seaborne landing operations, anti-ship strikes, large air battles, mud moving missions, lots of Ju52 transport flights, large tank battles …

- Beautiful Mediterranean scenery with picturesque ports with a lot of ships in them.

- MTO could include many countries (Brits, Ausis, South Afr, Rhodesians, free French and Vichy, Greeks, Yugos, Italians, Ger and even some outstanding American combat squadrons did participate.

  This alone creates a large customer base.

- Weight the customer numbers by the localized western pricing, perhaps even with an additional weighting for those paying in hard currencies and you have good prospects for a commercial success.

- In a niche market 1C/777 should strive for premium pricing

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-snip-

 

But unfortunately there are people who do not see or do not want to see some important arguments for an MTO scenario:

 

-snip-

 

I think the part you're missing is the one where nobody said "i dun wanna see MTO or Afrika!1!@!" but the part where the lead producer said "We're going to the PTO next and leaving North Africa out of our product set."

 

The decision has been made. It's not going to suddenly change.

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- A PTO sim is a niche product in a niche market - The PTO-module of the original IL-2 did not sell as well as some people want to make us believe.

Can you actually back it up ? Because having your word now and having a quote above from Oleg himself, even despite all crap he said in his life, I'd take his word for this as he was a developer that simply sold it.

 

I remember it quite differently from that time and I also recall that game was bashed by reviewers and community primarily for its unfinished and rushed state with poor flight models of numerous aircraft and absence of others, like TBF or B6N meant there were no flyable torpedo planes. 

 

 

 

- MTO has almost everything: Carrier shuttle flights to Malta, carrier missions, seaborne landing operations, anti-ship strikes, large air battles, mud moving missions, lots of Ju52 transport flights, large tank battles …

- Beautiful Mediterranean scenery with picturesque ports with a lot of ships in them.

- MTO could include many countries (Brits, Ausis, South Afr, Rhodesians, free French and Vichy, Greeks, Yugos, Italians, Ger and even some outstanding American combat squadrons did participate. This alone creates a large customer base.

- Weight the customer numbers by the localized western pricing, perhaps even with an additional weighting for those paying in hard currencies and you have good prospects for a commercial success.

- In a niche market 1C/777 should strive for premium pricing

 

1. MTO has no carrier vs carrier operations, no island hoping ... there are many things to name that MTO does not have but PTO has. It's apples and oranges, each has its own merits.

2. Also, I do not exactly see what other nations got to do with this - British, Australian, Dutch and other forces served in the Pacific as well. I do not exactly see how would MTO specifically attract French, Greek or former Yugoslavian people.

3. Right, one has better right because he pays in better currency.

4. Like DCS does ? Charge 50 $ for every single aircraft ? Then charge another 50 for a map, 20 for assets and prevent those who did not obtain them from entering multiplayer ? Sorry, its not the way I'd like Il-2 series to follow. What Jason now does is a good policy and Il-2 is unique product but still affordable for average men even from eastern Europe, Asia or couple other places which does not exclude those who did not buy one or more expansions from participating in multiplayer servers.  

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i dont think pacific will sell bad...but i do think that staying there for several releases in a row will be bad for overall sales, as it just leaves potential customers who would be interested in other theaters out for too long.they might lose interest alltogether for this simulation and never return.

from all the guys i know, im only aware of a single person who actually is looking forward to the pacific scenario...and no, its not only guys with a JG tag in front of their names...

sure, im convinced, that many do look forward to the pacific, but rest assured, that there are probably as many people who are no il2 customers yet, only because there is no western front...

I agree, i would love to se pacific, western and african front. So it would be great if they done one pacific expansion and move to one western expansion and later they can get back on second pacific theatre. Rather than stay for years on one theatre.

I know it is easier said than done so i just say it as customer what would be my desire from a guy who likes variety.

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We're all much more interested in the Eastern Front or the early-war/pre-war conflicts.

 

That is not the impression I had while active in IL 2 Sturmovik FB , Maybe things have change. One can only speculate, I hope it bring a lot more people 

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Give me early war - period.

This is as much in the Pacific as everywhere else.

109's and I16's over Russia, Zekes and Wildcats over the Pacific, 109's and Spits over the Channei - it's all good.

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