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Which Joystick?

Which Joystick?  

508 members have voted

  1. 1. Which Joystick(s) do you own?

    • Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog
    • Thrustmaster T.Flight HOTAS X
    • Thrustmaster T-16000M Flight Stick
    • Logitech Extreme 3D Pro
    • Logitech Attack 3
    • Logitech Flight System G940
    • Logitech WingMan Extreme Digital 3D
    • Saitek Flight X-52 HOTAS
    • Saitek Pro Flight X-52 HOTAS
    • Saitek Pro Flight X-55 Rhino HOTAS
    • Saitek Pro Flight X-56 HOTAS
    • Saitek Pro Flight X-65 HOTAS
    • Saitek Pro Flight Yoke
    • Saitek Cyborg Evo
    • Saitek Aviator
    • Microsoft Sidewinder FFB2
    • VKB-Sim Black Mamba
    • VKB-Sim Gladiator
    • CH Products Fighterstick and Throttle
    • Not in the list


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When you are right handed it is easy. When you are left handed all the best solutions do not fit in your hand. The throttles are also for right handed. So my controls are Thrustmaster T-16000M in the left hand and mouse in the right hand to look arround.

 

I find the notion of left handed/right handed odd for WW2 planes. It's not like you could have swapped the controls over in real life?

Im right handed. In VR first person shooters, eye dominance plays a big part, so being left eye dominant (cross dominant), I switched to left handed. It took some training but worked out quite well.

Would it not be possible to retrain with the right hand for combat flight sims as well?

The obvious exception to this is two handed sticks in space sims. There I see the need for left handed sticks, but that is a small market.

Edited by =TBAS=Tripwire

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If you have Thrustmaster T-16000M you are not limited by the joystick. When you loose a fight it is not because you have an inferior control system. The same is not true about Logitech extreme 3D pro.

 

Would it not be possible to retrain with the right hand for combat flight sims as well?

I am left handed, if it was possible and easy I would retrain to write with the right hand too. A friend of mine who is a retired pilot told me that his flight instructor was crossing his hands to reach the throttle with the right hand in a fighter jet, while holding the stick with the left.

Edited by JG27_Kornezov

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I'm 17 years down the line with my original MS Sidewinder FF2.

It's taken me through every variant of IL-2 ever made, Rise of Flight, DCS, got me Elite combat status in Elite-Dangerous and much more. What a controller!

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→ just wonder why it is not produced anymore. MS Sidewinder FF2
There are so few products that withstood the test of the time.

Edited by JG27_Kornezov

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When you are right handed it is easy. When you are left handed all the best solutions do not fit in your hand. The throttles are also  for right handed. 

So my controls are Thrustmaster T-16000M in the left hand and mouse in the right hand to look arround.

 

Moongoose T-50 has a lefthand stick.

Just ordered at T-50 base to use it with my Warthog grip, eager to know what it will be like with no center detent.

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I got a stick with absolutely no center detent, hydraulic dampers keep it where you leave it. Muzzle memory will center it automaticly after a short while.It is not directly unhistorical, but airflow in speed did center the stick sort of back in the days

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Many people running the Warthog.

 

What that tells me is, you all have WAY too much money!! :)

 

I would like to see a diagram where age, sim-experience(years), and joystick model is combined.

I have a suspicion that those who have the expensive stuff have been having this hobby for many years.

 

I have been flying flight sims since I was 15 years old (and are in my 40'ties), and over time a lack of satisfaction with to few buttons and a lack control made me save for a better stick.

 

Is the Warthog the best stick on the marked? No! Is it the best HOTAS? I don't know!

I know that the gimbals in the stick can be better, they are in my customized Cougar HOTAS. 

But the programming is second to none! 

Unfortunately it is almost as difficult as the mission editor in the BoX series.

Edited by EAF_Starfire

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So, that gunfighter stick... wow, does it work as good as it looks ?

 

O- What's the BRD?

Edited by BRADYS555

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BRD... 

 

 

 

 

...is a small  Russian joystick "boutique"  who are the first (~2009/2010) to use CAM center system in comercial domestic joystick, as CAM are used previous in some DIY projects show in the (RiP) Sukhoi forum between ~2005-2008.

 

BRD are a "one man job" of Baur (Roman), who produce limited batch of rudder pedal - 3 basic models with options,  3 different models of gimbal base (BRD-D, BRD-DS, BRD-N), and recreate in 3D the German KG-13B grip used in WWII in Bf, Fw and copy in Russian Yak and La and make a resign version of this grip.

 

In this picture BRD-DS base with Kg-13B grip. 

http://avia-sim.ru/forum/download/file.php?id=9392

 

BTW - BRD bases are compatible "BnP" with Cougar, Warthog and VirPil T50 grip.

 

http://avia-sim.ru/forum/download/file.php?id=9393

http://avia-sim.ru/forum/download/file.php?id=9394

 

Actually Baur is partner of VirPil (VPC) in development of new products, e.g. VPC Throttle.

 

More in their forum: http://avia-sim.ru/forum/viewforum.php?f=34&sid=85cf1d7163e23b6e6b36d33ba21b55a1

 

 

 

Edited by Sokol1

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I got a old saitek Aviator, with thousands hours of flight, it´s not very accurate, but very practical. It´ve  32 programmable buttons/functions ,  It´s very easy for configuration,
It is looks more like a WWII airplane stick, than a new joysticks which seem like Spaceship control stick.

The main problem of this device, is the electronic noise generated by the pots, it need cleaning de pots, 6 times per year, more or less.


166ff67c7e7fffe53e33b54e06ab5572-480-80.
​I ve modded with a homemade spacer for increase spring pressure, and it seem more realistic like the aircraft real controls, almost like real airbus sidestick.

Edited by III/JG52_Otto_-I-

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It is rather difficult to choose controllers these days. Although there are quite a few options visible online, availability and shipping can be troublesome depending on your location. 

 

Additionally, it often seems that a single stick is not adequate for all applications. Those that have enough buttons and switches for DCS jets are usually not ideal for Il-2. This becomes very expensive once you add a throttle, pedals, TrackIR, and other accessories. 

 

In the past, most people could get away with using just a basic stick with twist rudder and hat switch for view. However, this has slowly become untenable as the fidelity of simulations has increased. 

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I have a Thrustemaster Warthog.

But as everyone know, the joystick gimbals are average.

 

I would like to have a Virpil stick base, but be able to keep using the Thrustmaster TARGET programming as my throttle and stick depends on one another.

 

Does anyone knows it is possible to switch the joystick circuit board from the Thrustmaster joystick base to the Virpil base?

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I have a Thrustemaster Warthog.

 

I would like to have a Virpil stick base, but be able to keep using the Thrustmaster TARGET programming as my throttle and stick depends on one another.

 

Does anyone knows it is possible to switch the joystick circuit board from the Thrustmaster joystick base to the Virpil base?

 

You can't use VirPil or VKB or Baur bases and keep Cougar TQS throttle plugged nor use TARGET. This throttle is only controlled by the controller inside Cougar base and the digital sensors used in this base are not compatible with this controller - compatible only with analog sensors, not this controller fit inside this bases, is too big.

 

You can make this TQS throttle work standalone (TUSBA, DIY) and use Cougar grip in VirPIl and Baur bases "BnP" and in VKB bases with extra electronic/mechanic adapter, but too loosing ability to use TARGET.

 

Option for improve Cougar gimbal and continue use TARGET?

 

Yes, Debolestis 3D printed "clone" of UberNXT gimbal, with bearings + GVL224 MagRES analog contactless sensors, look there: 

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=195464

Edited by Sokol1

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You can't use VirPil or VKB or Baur bases and keep Cougar TQS throttle plugged nor use TARGET. This throttle is only controlled by the controller inside Cougar base and the digital sensors used in this base are not compatible with this controller - compatible only with analog sensors, not this controller fit inside this bases, is too big.

 

You can make this TQS throttle work standalone (TUSBA, DIY) and use Cougar grip in VirPIl and Baur bases "BnP" and in VKB bases with extra electronic/mechanic adapter, but too loosing ability to use TARGET.

 

Option for improve Cougar gimbal and continue use TARGET?

 

Yes, Debolestis 3D printed "clone" of UberNXT gimbal, with bearings + GVL224 MagRES analog contactless sensors, look there: 

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=195464

 

 

Hi Sokol1

 

It is a mod to my Warthog I am interested in ;)

My old Evenstrain Cougar was retired many years ago.

 

 

With the Warthog, Thrustmaster departed from their previous philosophy of having a hardware controller which contained the program. 

I am not excatly clear on how they do it in the Warthog, but Realsimulator (http://www.realsimulator.com/html/fssb_r3_warthog.html) offers a solution where you can keep the TARGETS programming is you transfer the circuit -board to the new base. Unfortunately this mod removes the ability to fly helicopters and the immersion with old prop planes :(

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I've got a T16000m with the throttle unit, I really like it. You just have to regrease it rather frequently, that would be my only gripe with it.

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Hi Sokol1

 

It is a mod to my Warthog I am interested in ;)

 

Upgrade for Warthog only Real Simulator "Force Sense" option - maybe is not good idea for WW II planes a "non moving" stick.

Better stay with extension (Sahaj, VirPil, MFG...) only.

 

Baur/VirPil/VKB bases allow you use their F-16'ish grip, but not TARGET.

 

Anyway VKB firmware programming - that don't require hungry memory software running in games background - can do most of what TARGER do, if not more.

The problem is "decyper" how use VKB DevCfg.  :wacko:

 

Maybe is time to you call your old Evenstrain Cougar back to action in WWII games, that gimbal certainly will help more the aim than Warthog "stiction, mixed forces" gimbal, leave Warthog for what his was made: DCS A-10 jet. ;)

Edited by Sokol1

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Upgrade for Warthog only Real Simulator "Force Sense" option - maybe is not good idea for WW II planes a "non moving" stick.

Better stay with extension (Sahaj, VirPil, MFG...) only.

 

Baur/VirPil/VKB bases allow you use their F-16'ish grip, but not TARGET.

 

Anyway VKB firmware programming - that don't require hungry memory software running in games background - can do most of what TARGER do, if not more.

The problem is "decyper" how use VKB DevCfg.  :wacko:

 

Maybe is time to you call your old Evenstrain Cougar back to action in WWII games, that gimbal certainly will help more the aim than Warthog "stiction, mixed forces" gimbal, leave Warthog for what his was made: DCS A-10 jet. ;)

 

Leaning how to programming the VKB is just a minor challange. The real issue is the cross-depending code between my Warthog throttle and the Warthog stick.  One or the 3-way dipsticks on the throttle changes key-config on both the throttle and the stick.  In essens it means that when the dip switch is in forward position, a lot of the sticks keys represent take-off and landing functionality like locking and unlocking the tailwheel; And when that dipstick is in middel I have the ability to control some keys for level bombing; In the back position I have keys for dogfighting and dive-bombing.

Another 3-way dipstick on the throttle gives me the ability to increase/decrease joystick sensitivity (curves and deadzones). Which is nice since I fly many different types of aircrafts. Usually I decrease aileron effectiveness of the Fw190 as it can be tiresome to fly on long sorties with a linar curve.

 

Going back to the Evenstrain is not an option these days as I fly multi-engine aircraft a lot of the time.The dual throttle is especially helpfull when the AAA have disabled an engine.....yeah, yeah. I know how it sounds. How can it be helpfull to have dual throttle when you only have one working engine ;)

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The problem is "decyper" how use VKB DevCfg.   

 

 

Oh well, I won't bother making post asking how it works  :o:  

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I think playing  IL-2, the common spine is good, of course the best with the throttle. I recommend Thrustmaster T.16000M FCS HOTAS Controller. Sold on Amazon for $99. 

Edited by CDSsxcccy
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On 1/24/2018 at 6:15 PM, CDSsxcccy said:

I think playing  IL-2, the common spine is good, of course the best with the throttle. I recommend Thrustmaster T.16000M FCS HOTAS Controller . Sold on Amazon for $99. Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog is used for games like AC-10 on DCS.

 

T16000 is really good but why do you classify WARTHOG only for DCS? I don't see your point. Warthog is even better for IL2 with the extendable stick option. The only downside is the price but it is only a matter of relativity.

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I have VKB Gladiator Pro and VKB Rudder on order. Hope I made a right choice for a midrange setup.

I am ashamed to admit I used to fly on cheap Logitech which is now stowed away while I await the real stuff..

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I found the Logitech Extreme 3D Pro to be great bang for the buck. It can do everything you need for the cost of a decent mouse. Once I upgraded to the T16000M HOTAS it became clear that it was totally inferior for expert level play, but the Logitech was great fun for over a hundred hours on middling settings, on multiple flight sims. I would recommend the Logitech for people who are not yet sure if they will enjoy flight simming, and the Thrustmaster T16000M FCS HOTAS setup for a reasonably priced upgrade if you decide that you really like the genre.

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On 4/28/2018 at 11:26 PM, WheelwrightPL said:

I have VKB Gladiator Pro and VKB Rudder on order. Hope I made a right choice for a midrange setup.

I am ashamed to admit I used to fly on cheap Logitech which is now stowed away while I await the real stuff..

VKB products are first rate. I have the Gladiator (non Pro) Mk II stick and Mk IV pedals and couldn't be happier.

Solid construction, precise input and authentic styling at mid-range prices.

Switching from TM pedals to VKB was like using VR for the first time. Amazing response and immersion. 

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On 06/11/2017 at 2:23 PM, Sokol1 said:

T.16000M has more buttons (on base) than Sidewinder 2, is 12 against 4, in  grip is the same number: 4 + POV HAT,* throttle slider and twist rudder.

It's a great stick, especially with the throttle as well. The only (and slightly disturbing) thing I've found is what seems like a generic fault with the potentiometer for the Z axis whereb they use a not very high quality one and it CAN have a tendency to start to fail after varying degrees of use (nothing concrete, it seems fairly random across users). What this results in is a tendency for your Plane to start 'weaving' without any input from you. This has been happening to me in-game and I thought it was just me and my ineptitude. Eventually I got round to opening the Thrustmaster Control Panel and it was then I realised that this axis was spiking, randomly and to various extremes. I then did the ubiquitous Google search and realised that it wasn't just me and my misfortune and that it was happening to a number of people.

Luckily I bought mine through Amazoid so I contacted them about the problem and they have agreed to replace the unit without question (which COULD suggest that they've had this happen before... or not) so I am just awaiting delivery this very day (bless 'em!).

The problem seems to arise after no particular timeframe, mine was after 6 months of average use so I'll just have to see if I get one that doesn't fail this time around.

It's a shame if this fault is 'generic' as the whole package is BRILLIANT to use and is a sturdy and intuitive thing to use as well as being very customisable.

NB Thrustmaster have been contacted but have not gotten back to me and I believe they are known for this. Shame that, it doesn't do them any favours.

Edited by Raptorattacker

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Yes, T16kM twist rudder potentiometer is an generic low cost/quality model.  I have one and with ~6 mounts of moderated use, the rudder axis became crazy - not issue for me as I get pedals, but certainly for newcomers.

 

Unfortunately all other twist rudder sticks is not better in this aspect - honorable exception VKB Gladiator Mk.II "vanilla" with contact less MaRS sensor in twist rudder - but Gladiator is difficult to find available, difficult to buy and seems that production was stopped, at least for a while. 

 

For manufacturers an better quality pot (or contact less sensor, that actually can cost less than a quality pot) on twist, throttle and in some models even in main (X,Y) axes of "entry level" joysticks is a "unnecessary luxury". :(

Edited by Sokol1
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16 hours ago, Sokol1 said:

Yes, T16kM twist rudder potentiometer is an generic low cost/quality model.  I have one and with ~6 mounts of moderated use, the rudder axis became crazy

Well, the replacement arrived as promised yesterday so we'll just have to see if I'm 'lucky' with this one or wether the pot gives up after 6 months as before. If it does then straight back it goes for another replacement (as the guarantee will be (relatively to the 'new' purchase date) good for at least another 12 months. I believe that it could even be 24 months here in the good ol' UK but 12 is DEFINITE.

As a predictable update to the rest of the story, I also got an email back off've Thrustmaster yesterday (after a week!) and true to expectations they suggested amongst other things that I 'try another of the same model on my machine' and 'try updating the software'. Well, thanks TM, I NEVER thought of that! As it goes, I have 'tried another T16000M and it works fine but that's because it's the replacement one for the failed model. I may still keep on following it up, just to see if they'll send me another one or at least send a DECENT replacement pot...

Keep you all updated on that one guys.

NB I am not trying to put people off this particular model as overall it is excellent to use, especially for the price, but just be aware of the potential potentiometer failings! :salute:

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On ‎11‎/‎30‎/‎2017 at 7:46 AM, Lensman said:

I'm 17 years down the line with my original MS Sidewinder FF2.

It's taken me through every variant of IL-2 ever made, Rise of Flight, DCS, got me Elite combat status in Elite-Dangerous and much more. What a controller!

Amazing. I'm curious, what can be attributed to the MS Sidewinders good performance over time. :salute:

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6 hours ago, Thad said:

Amazing. I'm curious, what can be attributed to the MS Sidewinders good performance over time. 

As strange as it sounds in this day and age I would say build quality. Those things were bomb-proof and definitely meant to be 'used'! I had one off've a mate of mine years ago and I remember it to this day, solid. If they made stuff like that or anywhere near like that these days then a lot of people would be out of a job because once people had got a hold of one then they wouldn't need another for their gaming lifetime!! I'd get one now if they only still made 'em. Trouble is if they did make 'em then the build quality would've almost undoubtedly taken a hit!

 

ps Unfortunately, after around 4 years, my mate wanted it back otherwise I'd probably still be using it today!!

Edited by Raptorattacker
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6 hours ago, Thad said:

Amazing. I'm curious, what can be attributed to the MS Sidewinders good performance over time. :salute:

 

The first MS Sidewinder was a joke and fell apart. This was when Microsoft was the benchmark for the IT industry so Bill Gates dictated that the Sidewinder FF 2 would be so well constructed that it was unlikely to fail. He removed the built in obsolescence from the product.

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17 hours ago, Lensman said:

The first MS Sidewinder was a joke and fell apart. This was when Microsoft was the benchmark for the IT industry so Bill Gates dictated that the Sidewinder FF 2 would be so well constructed that it was unlikely to fail. He removed the built in obsolescence from the product.

Exactly! It WAS the FF2 I was referring to, not the first incarnation. Like I said, bombproof!

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I have 2 MS FFB2's (a spare in case one fails!!)

I've got the ones with the red buttons and a red power light, i believe these are the beefed up ones.

Still using the original one purchased together with MS CFS as a 'flight kit' bundle in 1998/99!

I couldn't imagine using anything else....

 

They really should release a new metal version with better precision. (KG12/13 grip would be nice to!)

Edited by JG5_Schuck
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Can't really answer in the poll, I have a modified G940 stick, TM Warthog throttle, Saitek Throttle Quadrant and Slaw RX Viper rudder pedals. 

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The Warthog has a real great precision. Even at it's center, it's awesome.

The down-part is the relatively high breakout force. A real Airbus sidestick is smoother (and easier) to move from it's center.

But that's just some trivia thrown in to make me look smart. 😋

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I have the Saitke Yoke and man, even if I got used to it, flying fighters is a pain in the [edited].

Finally, I was able to get the T16000M, which I found "cheap" (cost less than the yoke).

Much better now, definitely

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Hi,

 

I´m using the Ravcore Javelin here:

 

JAVELIN_gallery_01.jpg

 

 

https://www.ravcore.com/produkty/javelin/

 

which is identical with the VBK-Gladiator Mk. II. I guess Ravcore is the only company selling the Gladiators in the EU via Amazon or at least has licensed them. The Javelin is very precise and well manufactured. Let´s see if it also can serve me for ten years, as my last one, a Logitech Cordless Freedom 2.4 did. Before that I was using a Microsoft SideWinder 3D Pro which also lasted for years.

 

On 8/14/2018 at 4:03 PM, Bremspropeller said:

The Warthog has a real great precision. Even at it's center, it's awesome.

The down-part is the relatively high breakout force. A real Airbus sidestick is smoother (and easier) to move from it's center.

But that's just some trivia thrown in to make me look smart. 😋

 

Can you recommend the Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS? I´m thinking about buying a HOTAS but am undecided as to either take the Thrustmaster Hotas Warthog Dual Throttle or the small solution, the Thrustmaster TWCS Throttle.

 

I´m asking, because it will be my first HOTAS, never used one before in 20 years of flight sim gaming.

 

Any recommendation appreciated.

Edited by sevenless

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I have the complete package and I have never looked back.

The precision is great and the dual throttle opens options when flying Twins.

 

Make sure you get some decent rudder-pedals on top.

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