Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
=VARP=Cygann

HUD impact on performance?

Recommended Posts

I would like someone else to confirm this if anyone is willing. This is test with normal monitor, so not an VR related issue, this impacts everyone. Well or at least it's something I'd like someone else to check.

 

Use 'H' by default to turn HUD on and off.

 

With Ultra(tried High, impact is same just different numbers) settings HUD eats up 40-50 fps!!!

 

So for me FPS on 1070gtx goes from avg85 to avg 130 on the deck at airfield.

 

Something is seriously wrong in programming code if displaying server and chat messages eats up 50 frames (about 40% performance degradation).

 

If I am not only one, this is serious issue that need to be looked at. It's ok to fly offline with HUD off (do it anyhow), but online it's important to be able to see messages from server and other players. 

 

Hope Devs know about this or see it soon since it is just ridiculous that one or two transparent onscreen widgets can eat up 40% or performance, and it is really felt in head tracking smoothness too, it's stutters a bit with HUD on regardless of 80ish frames, but is much smoother, near perfect with HUD off. 

 

EDIT: Forgot to add it's at 1440p resolution if that matters, maybe it's less noticeable at 1080p...

Edited by EAF_CyClops
  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have this problem as well, rift owner, 1070gt. I can run ultra just fine with hud activated on the monitor, but in VR with hud on it's simply impossible to play, and the effect you get is something like screen tearing but maybe I've never seen my rift stutter, at all, for months before this update.

 

I think this is a bug, before the patch hud on or hud off did not matter.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I do not have any fps change when I turn GUI (h key def) off. Ultra @ 3440x1440 i7 6700k gtx 1070.

Edited by 307_Tomcat

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I do not have any fps change when I turn GUI (h key def) off. Ultra @ 3440x1440 i7 6700k gtx 1070.

 

But to confirm it you need to be able to go past 60Hz (if you use Vsync and 60Hz monitor, then you'll probably not see it). Are you maybe locked at 60Hz?

 

I use 144Hz monitor and it makes a big difference for me, 50 frames is insane difference for something as trivial as transparent widget.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would like someone else to confirm this if anyone is willing. This is test with normal monitor, so not an VR related issue, this impacts everyone. Well or at least it's something I'd like someone else to check.

 

Use 'H' by default to turn HUD on and off.

 

With Ultra(tried High, impact is same just different numbers) settings HUD eats up 40-50 fps!!!

 

So for me FPS on 1070gtx goes from avg85 to avg 130 on the deck at airfield.

 

Something is seriously wrong in programming code if displaying server and chat messages eats up 50 frames (about 40% performance degradation).

 

If I am not only one, this is serious issue that need to be looked at. It's ok to fly offline with HUD off (do it anyhow), but online it's important to be able to see messages from server and other players. 

 

Hope Devs know about this or see it soon since it is just ridiculous that one or two transparent onscreen widgets can eat up 40% or performance, and it is really felt in head tracking smoothness too, it's stutters a bit with HUD on regardless of 80ish frames, but is much smoother, near perfect with HUD off. 

 

EDIT: Forgot to add it's at 1440p resolution if that matters, maybe it's less noticeable at 1080p...

 

Nothing is wrong. You simply don't understand what we are doing or how it works. We hate posts like yours because you paint us in a bad light without understanding what is going on.

 

Drawing a 2D image on a 3D scene hurts performance. Always been that way to some degree. Previously when you turned off the HUD you simply put the 2D images away, but the calculations where still being computed. Now when you turn off the HUD we also turn off the calculations for the HUD. In VR it has a pretty profound impact due to the complexity of VR which already hurts overall performance. 

 

Drawing scenes in VR is tough on vid cards and our complex physics is always tough on a CPU so when you lighten the load you get a boost.

 

So, we know what we are doing and achieving 90FPS or more in our large outdoor environment with all we have going on is not such as easy thing. 

 

Jason

  • Upvote 9

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nothing is wrong. You simply don't understand what we are doing or how it works. We hate posts like yours because you paint us in a bad light without understanding what is going on.

 

Drawing a 2D image on a 3D scene hurts performance. Always been that way to some degree. Previously when you turned off the HUD you simply put the 2D images away, but the calculations where still being computed. Now when you turn off the HUD we also turn off the calculations for the HUD. In VR it has a pretty profound impact due to the complexity of VR which already hurts overall performance. 

 

Drawing scenes in VR is tough on vid cards and our complex physics is always tough on a CPU so when you lighten the load you get a boost.

 

So, we know what we are doing and achieving 90FPS or more in our large outdoor environment with all we have going on is not such as easy thing. 

 

Jason

Oh right. So because your physics model is generated on the fly, the calculations for what is displayed on the hud especially when in regards to your aircraft, let alone other aircraft, gives a big performance hit.

 

So it is not a bug, but the reality of the situation. Still I wish it were a bug, because in Wings of Liberty I have to turn my hud off, which is only a heading indicator, and I am unaware of any large magnets near my computer.  :biggrin: 

 

Report: Found compass on plane. Used that instead. "You mean they COME WITH COMPASSES?!@"

 

 

Edited by ShoeHash

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It was not my intent to paint you in a bad light, you're a bit overly sensitive here.

My intent is to point out a problem that IMHO needs to be looked into, and I personally think it's serious enough to rise some alarms.

 

You are correct about me not knowing the way you implemented things in your code, but I do understand a lot about 3D rendering, although not in the game industry myself (but my close colleagues are and work closely with Id Software for two decades already) and I am working on some custom renders for scanning underground caves where performance is essential, so please no not think I do not know about hard work and challenges you face day to day.

 

With that said, and with your explanation in mind, I still can't agree with your statement that "Nothing is wrong".

I believe HUD solution needs revision and refactoring because I can't imagine the calculations workload that should hider the engine by 30-40% to display minimal HUD we have in expert settings.

 

My suggestion (in all good intent to be clear) is for you to separate messages from the rest of the HUD in case rest of the HUD does all the heavy calculations. Pushing messages queue on a fixed display should not make such an impact we're seeing now.

Another suggestion is to make HUD modular, so you can turn on and off calculations you can't avoid only for those elements that are visible (much like clipping in 3D).

 

You do not have to agree with me, do what you will with my finding and test numbers, but you do not need to feel so defensive either. Pointing out what I consider is not handled right in the lats patch is not an attack on your product, but a wish for a fix you may or may not do. 

 

S!

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As a none VR user I see no impact on performance whether HUD is turned on or off. But overall the sim has become very smooth for me on Ultra settings.

Edited by fjacobsen

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They certainly told us this up front, from the 2.009 Release Notes:

 

<<<Another tip we can give you to improve the performance is turning the in-game HUD off (H key). VR provides unique ability to read 'real' cockpit instruments at a glance, so try to use it! It can give you a huge performance boost, especially in complex missions with many objects. With HUD turned off, you can still see object markers (press I key to turn them on).>>>

 

 

I have both the H and I  commands assigned to toggle buttons on my throttle, so I can toggle them on and off at will. I only put them on if needed, then back off again as my VR performance is so much better with them off.

Trying to wean myself off them best as I can.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When I turn off the HUD I get significantly better performance than I did before the update. It's like my CPU just got overclocked.

 

I think it's great!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When professional game developers deliver free game enhancements to users:

 

Rest of appreciative gamers: "thank you"

 

Here: " i no professional developer but i have friends who are. Your enhancements prove that your game is either bugged or somebing wong wiza your code. Fix it. You are so sensitive."

 

Lovely

Edited by sinned

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@sinned - please read with understanding and patience before launching salvo of personal attacks. It does take some effort to have a civil discussion with those you strongly  disagree with, but still...

 

I have not demanded anything for myself. What I have said is that I have noticed performance issue after latest patch and hopefully Devs will act on it. Also asked others (politely if I may say so) to check in case it was just issue with my hardware, but some seem to confirm it and even Jason did with the explaining why it is so. 

 

Secondly (reading with understanding and patience issue again), I am a professional developer for well over a decade. Said I was not in the gaming industry, but some of my projects are very related to the 3D development and I've got colleges I work, and worked with, that actually are making AAA video games for a living. They also think impact is quite big and believe it could probably be improved on, but we do not have source code to know how big of a task that would be or how long it would take to optimize it.

 

Also, what you call "free game enhancements" is what we, that preordered BOK payed for up front, and that includes you too from what I can see. This has nothing to do with money, but I just don't understand where this is coming from? Even if was free, how does that matter on this topic? Never mind, consider it rhetorical question...

 

With this I'll retire from this topic since I've made this report for all of us sake, but have seen before where discussions like these end up when fans kick in attacking on the personal level with usually wrong assumptions about person they talk to (and Mr. Jason reaction with a very strong word "hate" might give them extra wings this time).

 

Thanks to those true to the original topic that confirmed I was not only one with this readings, and also to those confirming they have no issues at all. I will further fine tune it on my end to keep balance between frames per second and ability to read messages in MP. 

  • Upvote 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But to confirm it you need to be able to go past 60Hz (if you use Vsync and 60Hz monitor, then you'll probably not see it). Are you maybe locked at 60Hz?

 

I use 144Hz monitor and it makes a big difference for me, 50 frames is insane difference for something as trivial as transparent widget.

C'mon I'm not that stupid, ofc I have as much fps as possible in given scene.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

BTW yes, there are other 3d game engines where puting strings on screen do not cost significant amount but this game use one kind of engine, and they simply do not have resources to make it better in all aspects, maybe they filny do. Any way I do not notice any high fps fluctuations regarding HUD on/off.

Edited by 307_Tomcat

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But to confirm it you need to be able to go past 60Hz (if you use Vsync and 60Hz monitor, then you'll probably not see it). Are you maybe locked at 60Hz?

 

I use 144Hz monitor and it makes a big difference for me, 50 frames is insane difference for something as trivial as transparent widget.

Salutations,

 

In my offline mission test I picked up 50-55 FPS when turning off the HUD. I get 150 FPS with Ultra Graphics settings.

post-119325-0-86043500-1492097078_thumb.png

Edited by Thad

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nothing is wrong. You simply don't understand what we are doing or how it works. We hate posts like yours because you paint us in a bad light without understanding what is going on.

 

Drawing a 2D image on a 3D scene hurts performance. Always been that way to some degree. Previously when you turned off the HUD you simply put the 2D images away, but the calculations where still being computed. Now when you turn off the HUD we also turn off the calculations for the HUD. In VR it has a pretty profound impact due to the complexity of VR which already hurts overall performance. 

 

Drawing scenes in VR is tough on vid cards and our complex physics is always tough on a CPU so when you lighten the load you get a boost.

 

So, we know what we are doing and achieving 90FPS or more in our large outdoor environment with all we have going on is not such as easy thing. 

 

Jason

Cyclops is a good guy he don`t mean to offend, I can assure you.

Edited by seafireliv
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Would a modular HUD help or decrease performance as essentially one would have more HUD *layers* running?

 

It's all black magic to me, I just fly the things.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nothing is wrong. You simply don't understand what we are doing or how it works. We hate posts like yours because you paint us in a bad light without understanding what is going on.

 

Drawing a 2D image on a 3D scene hurts performance. Always been that way to some degree. Previously when you turned off the HUD you simply put the 2D images away, but the calculations where still being computed. Now when you turn off the HUD we also turn off the calculations for the HUD. In VR it has a pretty profound impact due to the complexity of VR which already hurts overall performance.

 

Drawing scenes in VR is tough on vid cards and our complex physics is always tough on a CPU so when you lighten the load you get a boost.

 

So, we know what we are doing and achieving 90FPS or more in our large outdoor environment with all we have going on is not such as easy thing.

 

Jason

Mr.Jason you got OP wrong.

Since i personally know OP IRL i can tell he is one of the biggest fans and il2/rof supporters owning every single product you delivered and not playing any other flight sim than yours while he is big flight enthusiast.

He was trying to help by pointing on isuee he noticed and God knows he want this game to be best which it is.

 

 

And to others, yes he is professional developer for over a decade, maybe not working in game industry but he has knowledge and was trying to help to make top flight sim even better.

We(il2community) are reasonable and mature community, please let it stay that way.

Cheers!

Edited by redribbon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Would a modular HUD help or decrease performance as essentially one would have more HUD *layers* running?

 

It's all black magic to me, I just fly the things.

It is black magic to me either!

But regarding what mr.Jason said about calculations and projecting 2d image on 3d yes it could help, less calculations means less load on cpu while less 2d image over 3d projection means less load on gpu.

Problem might be separating them in modular huds since we don't know source code or engine.

I'm sure devs are doing the best they can.

Just my speculation!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm sure the OP is a fine person and fan, BUT when you guys throw around words like "problem" or "broken" when it's not it does nothing but harm us. It just works a certain way and there are limitations.

 

And I said I hate posts like this, not the person.

 

You guys want to throw out harsh words to describe our hard work and quite frankly our ingenuity, but we can't use harsh words to describe our opinion about the actual meat of the post? Lets be fair. Be nice to us and be fair in your criticism and we'll not get irritated. You guys have no idea how much we hold back. Just being real with you.

 

Jason

  • Upvote 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Time to cool down a bit... maybe...
 

The forum  was/still is so much different (in a positive way) since Jason took over, that it would be a shame to destroy that big support  the devs have now from us, users.

Personally I don't se OP's post as SO negative as it was maybe perceived.

 

Love this game.

 

Edit:

I was a programmer => designer => analyst => project leader for decades and I fully understand the challenges the devs & Jason are facing.
I AM sure they do their best.  

 

And I thank them all for the joy I experience when flying BoX (even if I have to reinstall 368.81 driver for my GTX 780 every time).

Good luck!
 

Edited by ST_ami7b5
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm sure the OP is a fine person and fan, BUT when you guys throw around words like "problem" or "broken" when it's not it does nothing but harm us. It just works a certain way and there are limitations.

 

And I said I hate posts like this, not the person.

 

You guys want to throw out harsh words to describe our hard work and quite frankly our ingenuity, but we can't use harsh words to describe our opinion about the actual meat of the post? Lets be fair. Be nice to us and be fair in your criticism and we'll not get irritated. You guys have no idea how much we hold back. Just being real with you.

 

Jason

i'm sure OP tried to help, he saw performance impact and give suggestion, no need to take every word for granted.

Your product should be enough prove to not get irritated with anything cos look out there and find any sim with such graphics and physics now following with very successful VR implementation and all that achieved with limited resources and small team working on it. 

Actually performance and rendering is amazing when i compare it with some other games that has similar graphics (not flight sims but have flight features), now i'm aware you know the best your priorities (BOK, Pacific theatre) and i'm looking forward to it and i'm sure one day you'll push current limitations further away when your resources and manpower allow it.

Cheers Jason!

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I did a lot more tests today, mostly to see if any other settings helps me make piece between smooth game play and having chat messages visible.

And also to try and provide some more help to anyone else that is affected (maybe some of you really are not). Biggest difference is naturally on Ultra, since most other settings I hit 144fps where sync kicks in.

 

While testing I have found out something interesting. When I go into the quick mission, gain is under 10 fps, HUD on or off, across all the settings. It is near identical to the point I was thinking it was patched out, but then I went online and seen it was still same on my system.

This might explain why 307_Tomcat don't notice it, maybe he tested also in quick mission? Same as with 60Hz question, it's just because you did not provide any details how you checked, I did not try to patronize I assure you.

 

But on an empty server in MP with no AI or players, difference on Ultra for me is average 75 fps HUD on, 130-135 HUD off on airfield. In offline quick mission it's 120ish vs 130ish, not noticeable at all if you don't look at the fps counter.

One must admit this is somewhat odd since in both I was just sitting next to the hangar with engine off and nothing else going on.

 

However, in MP head movement stutters a bit. Before patch game was throwing all monitors to 60Hz mode and was still butter smooth. and now on 75 when HUD is on view is not smooth, but it is again butter smooth when HUD is off.  

 

System I tested on is i7 @ 4,2Ghz, 1070gtx, 16Gb of high speed clocked ram. 

 

I can play and will enjoy the game with HUD off even better, I am only concerned about server messages (and player messages too).

They are not visible and lots of servers are scripted in some way to improve on objective game play and experience the server as map creators wanted it.

 

Here is another idea, one I would even like if there is no any performance gain with HUD off.

Maybe get one sound (like some radio static) when server message pops, and another sound (like a radio click) when it's a player message.

That way we can fast press H to see message we think might be of interest and then turn HUD back off. Would even help VR players, they would benefit the most immersion wise (I am not among them, but I will be when it matures a little).

 

P.S. Here are the images from MP server if it matters:

 

 

40A9B53F6070E7CA2BBB385B3AE653BAC603C295

 

 

 

D521B31297080FFDD4E508E4F5B592DF2622E0F3

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I will say that in VR, the hud is having a VERY significant effect on FPS with my rift (i4670k at 4.6ghz and a gtx1080).  I can easily hold 90 fps the vast majority of the time but as soon as I turn on the hud, i drop down to 45 and ASW kicks in. I understand the HUD is additional rendering, but I agree that the impact on performance is unfortunate, especially if it is the way it will be permanently and not the result of some bug. I try not to use the hud often but considering i have to turn it on sometimes to see the map to navigate, and occasionally to see tech tips to see what gear my supercharger is in etc, I hope that streamlining the code will someday reduce the performance impact.  I also second the idea to allow some elements of the HUD (the map in particular) to be rendered without the rest to reduce the impact. Perhaps there is already a way to do this? Not sure.

 

At any rate, I want to close this critique with a thank you. Jason I can say without a doubt this is some of the most pleasurable VR flying i've done yet and I have flown DCS, FSX, P3D, and War Thunder in VR. Great work and I think with a few minor improvements, there will simply be very little reason to fly any other sim for me. Thanks!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I really do love Jason's "I'm not taking any shit from anyone" attitude.

You make a damn fine product and have every right to defend it as such.

Kudos to you sir!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think sometimes it is easy to for us to  look at things a little differently than what maybe it truly is and how it was intended.

 

Rather than thinking of it like this:

Wow, look at that dang frame rate hit I am taking by simply enabling the HUD. This is crazy. There should NOT be that big a hit in performance.

 

Perhaps we should look at it like this:

Wow, look at all that extra and increased performance we are getting in VR by disabling the HUD, it is unbelievable. They, by figuring out that by not only removing the HUD from view but also removing all the calculations the HUD was still making while it was hidden like it was previously, have greatly boosted performance for us in VR mode. I can even run it in VR at higher settings than I originally thought. Brilliant Move!

 

:good:

Edited by dburne

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think sometimes it is easy to for us to  look at things a little differently than what maybe it truly is and how it was intended.

 

Rather than thinking of it like this:

Wow, look at that dang frame rate hit I am taking by simply enabling the HUD. This is crazy. There should NOT be that big a hit in performance.

 

Perhaps we should look at it like this:

Wow, look at all that extra and increased performance we are getting in VR by disabling the HUD, it is unbelievable. They, by figuring out that by not only removing the HUD from view but also removing all the calculations the HUD was still making while it was hidden like it was previously, have greatly boosted performance for us in VR mode. I can even run it in VR at higher settings than I originally thought. Brilliant Move!

 

:good:

 

Yep, I get this dburne. I like that we have the option to turn it off believe me. I guess I'm just disappointed that using the map will result in this kind of performance hit... since it is really a critical need to do so in any simming.  Just providing some additional feedback for the devs as that is what is needed in this early stages to help push this already amazing implementation forward! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's a good incentive to learn to use the cockpit dials. I get double fps increase turning off the HUD and I am really grateful they implemented it. I don't think the OP meant any harm but I do think people tend not to read their own criticisms from the other point of view before posting. It's also easy to read a negative tone in a post when there wasn't intended.

 

I imagine JW is under a ton of stress these days now that success or failure will be blamed on him. I think the game has developed as much or more since he has taken over than it did the entire time before. The Williams administration keeps putting out one hit after another and the future looks brighter with every update and DD. This small team has produced a Rolls Royce quality product with an FSO Polonez budget. If they keep up this pace and the kids with VR gadgets get hooked on flying, I think we will see a new golden age of flight simming.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I really do love Jason's "I'm not taking any shit from anyone" attitude.

You make a damn fine product and have every right to defend it as such.

Kudos to you sir!

 

I'm sure the OP is a fine person and fan, BUT when you guys throw around words like "problem" or "broken" when it's not it does nothing but harm us. It just works a certain way and there are limitations.

 

And I said I hate posts like this, not the person.

 

You guys want to throw out harsh words to describe our hard work and quite frankly our ingenuity, but we can't use harsh words to describe our opinion about the actual meat of the post? Lets be fair. Be nice to us and be fair in your criticism and we'll not get irritated. You guys have no idea how much we hold back. Just being real with you.

 

Jason

Seriously man, you`re going over the top. If `we` say something about the game it`s only because we want it to be the best it can be. We PAY you and put FOOD on your table with hard cash, we have a right to our opinion. And haven`t you seen the many POSITIVE posts we put up, i put one up just the other day. You`re seeing just the bad but not the good.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's a good incentive to learn to use the cockpit dials. I get double fps increase turning off the HUD and I am really grateful they implemented it. I don't think the OP meant any harm but I do think people tend not to read their own criticisms from the other point of view before posting. It's also easy to read a negative tone in a post when there wasn't intended.

 

I imagine JW is under a ton of stress these days now that success or failure will be blamed on him. I think the game has developed as much or more since he has taken over than it did the entire time before. The Williams administration keeps putting out one hit after another and the future looks brighter with every update and DD. This small team has produced a Rolls Royce quality product with an FSO Polonez budget. If they keep up this pace and the kids with VR gadgets get hooked on flying, I think we will see a new golden age of flight simming.

 

Yeah I rely on my gauges and dials in VR exclusively. I even use the levers for the radiators to approximate my radiator settings.  However, you need to enable the hud to use the map, and you aren't gonna be able to navigate without that.  So no matter how good you get reading the gauges, you are still going to experience this hit. 

 

If the only way to get the solid 90 FPS i get is to turn off the HUD, then so be it. I'm still glad the option is there because flying is so much smoother than it is in DCS where it seems like sometimes no matter what i can't hit 90. However, I still hope that the load placed on the system by turning on the HUD will  be reduced in time and we won't see as much of a hit. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Seriously man, you`re going over the top. If `we` say something about the game it`s only because we want it to be the best it can be. We PAY you and put FOOD on your table with hard cash, we have a right to our opinion. And haven`t you seen the many POSITIVE posts we put up, i put one up just the other day. You`re seeing just the bad but not the good.

 

The best it can be is what we are capable to make with the money and resources we have available which is practically nil. I tolerate a lot of complaining, always have, and I've laid off you guys for a long time. And when you complain in an over the top way, you take food not away from me, but from a team of Russian kids who have families and live in a damn freezer half the year. I live in the land of freedom and opportunity. They don't. Again, my point is the words chosen to describe limitations is wrong. Not broken, not a problem, but a limitation. And yes we hate such descriptions of our work. That is my point. Nothing personal as what you have made this.

 

Be more tactful in your complaining and I and the boys won't get irritated. Is that do much to ask?

 

Jason

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Understood and accepted!

See what the devs team work brings us ,a Lot of more fun and for me the Best historical flightsim on this planet. Normal i am a man with direct and harsch speech, but I think what jason want to say, i see him also as an Interpreter between worlds ,Russian and the other side.for me ,the devs team and jason can be proud of the work ,and any error, mistake or what ever you call it ,they work on it step by step, for our success and fun

Salute to the il2 community, that include all of us and Happy Easter

Edited by II/JG11ATLAN
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fact is this one of the most positive and mature forums on the internet with no haters in it, lets be thanful for that!

No matter how some words are addresed we all love and appriciate development approach devs are delivering which rare studios can keep up with it.

Keep up the good work and don't get upset over one word among 100 positive ones we post.

Btw Jason some more Kuban map pics would be nice in the next DD.

Happy Easter!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The best it can be is what we are capable to make with the money and resources we have available which is practically nil. I tolerate a lot of complaining, always have, and I've laid off you guys for a long time. And when you complain in an over the top way, you take food not away from me, but from a team of Russian kids who have families and live in a damn freezer half the year. I live in the land of freedom and opportunity. They don't. Again, my point is the words chosen to describe limitations is wrong. Not broken, not a problem, but a limitation. And yes we hate such descriptions of our work. That is my point. Nothing personal as what you have made this.

 

Be more tactful in your complaining and I and the boys won't get irritated. Is that do much to ask?

 

Jason

yea guys chill out, look I seen that new picture one of the guys there at 777 Studios can't even afford shoes, only socks and slippers..

 

Man in prison we even give inmates new shoes...

 

maybe we can even do what some of the kickstarter and star citizen's players do, they send donuts and food to them (developers).

 

or we can start buying more planes?  and gifting the game to friends..

Edited by 71st_AH_Mastiff

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well this topic maybe needs a lock now. Information is there for whom needs it and everything else just baffles me.

 

This was not about bashing and trashing BOS, nor Jason, nor money and most definitely not about me (even through I took that bait at one point). I just thought I found a problem that needed attention, just not this type of attention it's getting in last 10 replays. 

 

In fact, I should have posted it in the "Technical Issues and Bug Reports" section in the first place where only those that think they had issues would look at, and Devs of course.

 

I will not apologize as I only meant well from the start, but I am sorry for what it turned out to be, since these childish arguments derailed form my point so much that at the end it looks like something it was not.

Careful readers will see that (along with the fact that I repeated many times it is not about VR either, VR is new tech and needs to be ironed out), rest will just continue to make it about money, red vs blue, plants vs zombies, etc...

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mature community? U serious?

 

Many dont even seem to apprehend the reality - how it is said is more important than what is said. This should be a given for grown ups who work/live in a society/work environment. No?

 

Seriously, it is no a brainer hardcore sim is a dying market.

 

"We bring food to your table!"is a joke right?

 

Jason and team should just make a game called "clash of planes" on android, make money and move on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well this topic maybe needs a lock now. Information is there for whom needs it and everything else just baffles me.

 

This was not about bashing and trashing BOS, nor Jason, nor money and most definitely not about me (even through I took that bait at one point). I just thought I found a problem that needed attention, just not this type of attention it's getting in last 10 replays. 

 

In fact, I should have posted it in the "Technical Issues and Bug Reports" section in the first place where only those that think they had issues would look at, and Devs of course.

 

I will not apologize as I only meant well from the start, but I am sorry for what it turned out to be, since these childish arguments derailed form my point so much that at the end it looks like something it was not.

Careful readers will see that (along with the fact that I repeated many times it is not about VR either, VR is new tech and needs to be ironed out), rest will just continue to make it about money, red vs blue, plants vs zombies, etc...

 

 

To be honest, you've been entirely reasonable. I'm a little disappointed by the communities hostility to other community members providing constructive criticism. I've seen this kind of thing before and it is not sustainable in the long term. Hopefully folks can cool their jets and see that suggestions for improvement from the community are a critical part of any developer/community relationship. If developers wish not to get such, they may as well shut this forum down. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting definition of "constructive criticism" and suggestion to shut a median of communication based on your sole interpretation.

 

In real life son, when you get a real job, that kind of negative comments is a far fetched "constructive".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...