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AndyJWest

Advice on landing the Fw-190

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My advice is simple really. Watch this closely, and do something else...  ;)

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyllDcBNrc4

 

Came in way too fast, obviously. The only real question (other than whether I should give up sim flying and take up knitting instead :rolleyes: ) is whether I'd have been better off trying to go round after the initial bounce? I got away with it, but it could so easily have gone completely pear shaped, and there wasn't much runway remaining. Except that slamming the throttle full forward at stalling speed ten metres above the runway probably isn't wise either. What think you? Catch a bounce with throttle, and hope the torque doesn't kill you, or, carry on with the 'landing' and hope you don't stall too hard (I fed in a little power, though I suspect it made no real difference). Can so easily go wrong, either way...

Edited by AndyJWest

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Hey Andy,

 

 I am a RL pilot and I think where most people fall apart with sims is they cant feel what the plane is doing so we have to learn other ways of "feeling the aircraft". To practice landing you will want to fly a normal pattern around the airport. Usually a 1000Ft AGL but you can do it from 500 with these smaller planes. Pay attention to your airspeed and make sure you are trimmed for that airspeed. That means you arent fighting the stick to hold your attitude.

 

 The key with landings is understanding you need to be stable on the approach. I cant say that enough! Power changes corrections etc will all cause you to balk the landing. Line up a few miles out and just let the plane get settled in and fly the approach speed all the way in with about a 3 degree nose down angle but that will depend on plane. When you get close to the ground the plane will want to float due to ground effect so at that point hold the nose up a bit and idle the throttle and let it settle on to the runway. Then use rudder and brakes to hold nose straight.

 

 If you give yourself room you will get it down and if something goes amiss just throttle up and go around. Heck even 747 pilots go around sometimes cause they dont like the approach.

 

If you come in to fast you will float way to far down the runway its important to come in at correct speed. When you flared you gave it way to much a few degrees is all you need.

 

Power for altitude pitch for speed.

 

Hope this helps!

Edited by SkyWalker777
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Yup. All good advice. Not that I should need it, since I'm not exactly a sim noob. As you say, the key to a good landing is a stable approach, which thinking back I never really had. Saw the runway late, and rather than turning away to do a proper circuit, went for the quick messy approach - chop the throttle right back, stick out the wheels and flaps, and try to stabilise speed and descent angle in the remaining few seconds. The trouble is, you can often get away with this sort of sloppiness in a sim, and when it works you can kid yourself it is evidence of good piloting skills. It isn't. Expertise should be used to get you out of tricky situations, not into them...

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I take off and land on Taxiways. It is an FAA violation. I don't get in trouble though. Because I am Harrison Ford.

Walmart won't believe that I am Harrison Ford. 

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Ever since the FM overhaul which made the 190 easier to handle at low speeds (at least for me) it has become the easiest plane to land for me. Extremely pleasant both in a two-point and 3-point situation, no tendency to ground loop as long as you keep the tailwheel locked.

 

It's a real "pilot's aircraft".

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The FW-190 A-3 is a really easy bird to land imo.  Most planes are once you figure out the best way to do so.  (Simming anyway..I don't have realworld piloting experience) 

 

 

Personally.. I tend to still be going a bit too fast after hitting the upwind and downwind leg so if I'm still doing 300-400kmh I'll drop the gear and lower the flaps to help reduce speed, and I'll actually aim my nose to the right of the runway if I'm coming from the left side and to the left of the runway if I'm approaching from the right and then kick the rudder to point the nose at the point on the runway where I'd like to touchdown..  I apply aileron in the opposite direction of the rudder, and the "side slip" causes me to bleed speed and altitude quickly enough that I'm at proper approach speed as I'm nearing the edge of the runway,  at which point I add or reduce rudder input to straighten up, flare the nose up and let gravity drop me about 3-5m above the ground..keeping the stick pinned back as I drop to the ground to avoid any bounce, as well as while I alternate brakes to slow down.   While crabbing down to the runway I will give quite a bit of nose up stabilizer, but leave myself with appropriate downward AoA.  The goal is to reduce speed of descent to about 3-5m/s.  If I start going too slow I simply throttle up to about 30-50%, and make sure to cut it 0% as I'm crossing over the runway threshold and close to the ground.   

 

I'm still capable of messing up but landing has become one of the easier things to do with almost any plane when I think of it like this. 

Edited by headwarp

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Now, these are Real Life Rules applying to High Performance and Bush Flying all the same to Provide safe "Down is Down" Landings, tend to work on most Aircraft. 

 

Power On: 

  • -Slow down before the Approach, use Trim to Maintain 120% Clean Stall Speed
  • -Extend Gear and Flaps to 50% or the Take-Off Setting
  • -Depending on Aicraft put the Center of your Reticle on the End of the Runway or Horizon
  • -Put the Lower Ring or some other Appropiate Mark of the Reticle onto the Start of the Runway
  • -This will Put you on a Glide Path you Maintain using Engine Power only, Elevators are only used to Correct Speed and dampen Airframe Motions as Throttle Changes
  • -When the Runway starts exiting your Reticle Reference downwards, reduce Power to sink, if it becomes too shallow, increase Power
  • -At about 200-300m Extend Flaps Fully
  • -Trim your Aircraft for 110% Stall Speed Flaps Down
  • -You should now be coming in Nice and Slow, using engine Power to Maintain a Slope towards the Runway. 
  • As you Cross Tree Top Altitude SLOWLY increase Power and slow you Descend Rate to just below 0 and Pull Back on the Stick
  • You should now be at a Nose Up Attitude just above the Runway
  • Cut your Power completely, Pull the Stick to the Belly and she should just about Drop on the Runway like a Dead Housefly on All Three Points. 

 

Power Off Works the same, Excpet that you Aim for the Beginning of the Runway and come in somewhat more Steeply. 

 

 

Edited by 6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann
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So, most of the advice you have received concerns how lousy your setup was or how to land properly. Let's talk about remedying the bad position you found yourself in instead.

 

Your best option would be to go around and get a better setup but this is a sim so EFF IT lets go;

 

Firstly, chop the throttle back to 1300 rpm, that's about 2000 less than a standard approach but not quite fully back. The Fw does not like no throttle landings with that heavy nose but they are do'able with practice.

 

The Fw, unlike the Bf 109, does a forward slip really well down to stall speed and you can bleed a ton of energy while doing so. If you have the altitude you can nearly go to lock on both the stick and rudder. People like to complain about slipping in this game but I find most aircraft do it well (109 being the exception). You were low where the video picks up so you could use a forward slip but not to that extreme. Not sure how high and fast you were when you first located the airfield.

 

You appear to have been really eager to get her on the ground and with the excess speed I can see why. It is tempting to stand on the brakes to stop. I think it's better, in most cases, to use as much aerodynamic drag as possible first - flaps, gear, slips and hold her off nose high a little longer. The nose high thing is really important with all these tail draggers unless you want a wheels landing.

 

You landed really flat. The tailwheel never made any contact at all. That sets you up for the big bounce, especially because you still had speed and the wing was generating lift. If you had been in the three point, or nearly so, the main gear bounce would have transfered a lot of the vertical energy into the tail wheel. This minimizes the height and transfers the energy back to the main gear like a see-saw. The advantage is you maintain the drag and minimize the lift of the wing while all that energy transfer is going on - as long as you hold her off in the three point attitude.

 

Not being critical at all, just noting what I saw in the video. I think you did a good job cleaning up what you started with.

 

Additionally:

 

While a good setup and pattern work is of course best, in 'combat' sometimes you need to do it messy and knowing how takes messy practice. Plus it's fun to walk away from bad setups and deadsticks. I recomend the opposite of everyone else here and suggest break turns: Cross the runway low at 90 degrees and high to full throttle, then chop it back to nothing, perform a climbing 270, drop flaps, drop gear and roll into final. It's exciting at first but with practice it is a very rapid way to get onto the ground while not giving vultures much to work with. It is an actual combat zone technique as well.

Edited by II/JG17_HerrMurf
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Thanks, HerrMurf, that all makes a lot of sense, Sideslipping to bleed off some of the speed was certainly an option. I think I briefly considered it, but wasn't confident enough to try it that low. I should probably practice it a bit higher, and see how safe it is. The bounce was almost entirely down to trying to do a wheeler rather than a three-pointer, as you say, and if I'd held it off a bit longer I'd probably just have landed a bit long. Not elegant, but safe enough on the runway concerned, since I'd probably have ended up stopping in much the same place I finally did, just beyond the threshold.

 

As for doing break turns for 'combat' landings, I think they can be safe enough provided you make a conscious decision to go round if it shows any sign of not working, and stick to it. I think this is really the most important lesson here - messed up landings usually creep up on you, and having the discipline to admit they are going wrong and abort avoids most potential ugliness. 

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Guest deleted@30725

Below 200 or fail. Same with most of the ww2 birds though. You can see when it was happy at 150 it wanted to be on the ground. Good flying though. You didn't panic and smash it like many would have.

 

Managed to get on for a bit and clipped the prop on the ground on a loop, got it back down though. Didn't quite have enough energy to get on the runway, but by the time I was committed with gear down I decided to give it a shot. I remember non-runway bits being bumpier, but this was really smooth.

 

In your situation I would probably have firewalled the throttle since that bounce was so HUGE.

post-30725-0-17873800-1491610920_thumb.jpg

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