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Developer Diary, Part 153 - Discussion


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Thank you very much for your hard and specific work!

Very good update of what you guys are after... and as I have no glue of programing... salute to all of your team!

 

It is always a very sad thing to hear or see a comrade fading away!

Requiescat in pace Stepan Anastasovich Mikoyan!

Pilots never die...they just regroup in heaven!

 

I want to thank your team for your honesty about reprogramming the FM-data!

It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent that survives. It is the one that is most adaptable to change. (Charles Darvin)

Your team is very adaptable an always keen on improving the work!

Thats the spirit that will lead to success!

 

Thank you and Horrido!!!!

Edited by Sanders
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I fully rely on the criteria of the developers of 1C and 777
 
 
We hope that small details of the 109 will also be corrected, for example:
 
-slats deployed in the ground
 
Good new and Thx
 

 

Hello lothar,

 

If I'm not mistaken, the slats are not spring operated, they open with the airflow. So, in theory they will remain in the last position the were at before coming into rest. One has to go find the AOA of the wing in the ground as well as the AOA the slats were designed to pop to figure out at what state they would be upon landing. 

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Most important FM improvement ever - great you took the time for this ! ( I am a bit sad, that RoF will not get the same rework of this rudder issue )

 

RIP Stepan Anastasovic

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Hello lothar,

 

If I'm not mistaken, the slats are not spring operated, they open with the airflow. So, in theory they will remain in the last position the were at before coming into rest. One has to go find the AOA of the wing in the ground as well as the AOA the slats were designed to pop to figure out at what state they would be upon landing. 

yes Pupo my friend, in landing, the airflow is little..

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Good news to hear about the planned general flight model modifications! Especially looking forward to testing the roll/yaw coupling and dampening characteristics in the new flight model:

 

“5. Aircraft became more stable in the airflow, parasitic oscillations are reduced”

 

Based on the above description, it sounds like the phenomena we call “wobbling” in the forum will not be as pronounced which sounds great! :good:

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Sorry to hear about the passing of a veteran. It's a wonderful thing he helped  the dev team with his unique insides and memories of how it was back in the days.

 

Glad to hear the dev team moves on and keeps improving things in this sim as well as pumping out new content.

Thank you for that and mazzeltov.

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I'm very sorry to read about your Veteran's passing passing away :-/

 

Regarding the news about the continuing level of dedication of 1C / 777 to the "cause" of this unique flightsim, all I can say / write is that it only reinforces my opinion that indeed this is the best flight Simulator I have used so far, in 30 yrs of flight simulation, the Simulator and the support we users receive from the developers in keeping it to the highest possible level of quality, realism, immersion!

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well, improving the generall flight physics is something that deserves respect i have to say. for me personally its by far the most interesting DD and the one big change im most looking forward to.

the fact, that they keep improving their aerodynamic/physics engine makes me optimistic towards the future of this sim, and if done correctly, i might even purchase BOK and the future Pacific theater, while im not interested in either of them, but just to support them in ongoing FM/aerodynamic/physics improvement, hoping that one day they will develop a western WW2 theater im personally really interested in...

i have much respect for this approach of ongoing improvements of their engine, a thing, where another so called ww2 sim, is way too stubborn and arrogant to even admit that their FM is not perfect.

hopefully you devs keep on exactly that track :salute:

 

EDIT: i really hope, that these mentioned changes of rudder behaviour lead to a more pronounced drag when flown incorrectly or ignoring the rudder altogether. i hope that flying properly coordinated will make a more obvious difference.  

Edited by 9./JG27DavidRed
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Rest in peace, sir.

 

Sad to see that people care more about roll rates and other nonsense like that, when a brave man has passed away.

 

That's a pretty negative slant on the above comments. Maybe we should all have expressed our respect but not doing so shouldn't imply that we don't care or respect the man.

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So does this mean that planes won't wobble so much?

 

it seems to be what we're reading - specifically the "parasite oscillations" (aka: "wobble") part

 

 

I would very much like to know how this affects our dear "Old Crate", the P-40  -- that's one plane which seems to almost defy physics, if you try to use the same techniques which work well with the rest of our fleet -  it can make for some unforgettable moments in which the plane "flies you" rather than the other way around...

 

it not only "wobbles" - but is also capable of wobbling itself to a spin

 

 

and I've tried this over and over again - with the current model, it loses directional control BEFORE the onset of stall on either wing -- I've compared this death-spin behavior with a deliberate asymmetric stall (yes, despite it being prohibited by the manual) - and the latter is a noticeably different event, featuring a crisp wing-drop and heavy buffeting - and it can be prevented from developing into a spin much more readily than in the case of "spontaneous rudder departure" - which is what ends most turn fights with this plane

 

this rudder departure singularity cannot be countered with rudder or aileron inputs, and can only be interrupted by either accepting a large altitude loss to do a full spin recovery, or by bursts of power, for torque, and /or violent pitch inputs that exploit the uniquely large coupling forces as a means to check the uncontrolled yawing - it's a maneuver which requires almost more luck than skill

 

 

and curiously - if the ball is kept centered, the P40 has a fantastic (and mostly unknown amongst players) turn radius and energy retention -- i.e. what makes it turn poorly is not how the wings behave, but it requires an immense rudder workload to prevent heavy sideslipping during any pull-up maneuver - and it's that "crabbing" that drains away airspeed, not the turn itself

 

the real plane does not appear to have this same tendency for extreme pitch/yaw coupling - as this is not covered in any flight manuals or memos - nor these seem present (even if actively countered by the pilot) in cockpit footage of this aircraft in flight

 

 

anyways - it'd be lovely to have some info on how the Kittyhawk is flying now with all these very relevant changes made -- this could easily have solved it's "problems" as far as non engine-related performance goes

Edited by 19//Moach
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Hello lothar,

 

If I'm not mistaken, the slats are not spring operated, they open with the airflow. So, in theory they will remain in the last position the were at before coming into rest. One has to go find the AOA of the wing in the ground as well as the AOA the slats were designed to pop to figure out at what state they would be upon landing. 

 

And also in flight according of the speed of the airflow and the incidence of the wing, You always wanted to know how they work without ever having dared to ask the question ?

 

Look at this video ;)

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That's a pretty negative slant on the above comments. Maybe we should all have expressed our respect but not doing so shouldn't imply that we don't care or respect the man.

 

You're right, I apologise for my pessimism.

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Please, I hope this means the end of the wildhorse wobbling when zooming in the crosshairs to fire with the 109 gunsights.  :happy:

 

RIP Stepan Anastasovic 

 

 

thats because you need to set a pitch curve on your stick at 50%

 

That has nothing to do with the pitch curve of the joystick, the reason is the FM!

Nice try.)))

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That has nothing to do with the pitch curve of the joystick, the reason is the FM!

Nice try.)))

 

I already have the pitch sensibility curve in 80% and the Noise filter in 0.5 and honestly ... not satisfied yet so please, Amarok, I really hope you're right and it's the FM. I am just desperate  :wacko:

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Honestly: Do away with the noise filter, Sure it might straighten out the input but at the same time it adds a latency to your input which can result in additional oscialltion when you try to correct your first inputs. The key is to be gentle.

PS: Rest in peace Anastasovich.

Edited by 216th_Jordan
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It is very sad that such a veteran is no longer with us.

Heroes Never Die. Their story ends with the hope that we never again see that kind of darkness what they have seen! But if that day comes there will be one who'll step out the shadow with the same bravery and courage how they did before........They make us proud even if they are no longer with us! :salute:

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Sadly we loose those who first hand experienced the war and can tell about it, RIP . 

Good DD , that IL 2 should be a SOB to fly and probably the least used model, but such are the historical facts. 

I was hoping to see something about the P 40, but I guess that is for later

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that IL 2 should be a SOB to fly and probably the least used model, but such are the historical facts.

 

Yeah the messed-up CG should be noticable, but how much (little?) it will be used depends on its loadout options. If we get PTABs for it, then it might become quite popular online on servers that use tanks.

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  • 1CGS

If I'm not mistaken, the slats are not spring operated, they open with the airflow. So, in theory they will remain in the last position the were at before coming into rest.

 

I think you are right.

 
The Bf-109G-6 I've seen in the National Air and Space Museum (in DC) has the slats that remain in the last position (my apologies to the museum for having touched them).

 

Bf 109G-6.jpg  Bf 109G-6 & me.jpg

 

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(my apologies to the museum for having touched them).

 

 

Careful - you may have just admitted to committing some sort of misdemeanor or low-grade felony of messing with US Government property - if you run into any trouble on your next visit to the US over this, PM me and I'll see if I can get some of my lawyer buddies to help you out :)

 

I wondered when I saw the other picture posted above (the one with the slats opened on the plane on the ground) whether one could really draw any useful conclusion based on that (as to whether they should normally be open on the ground), or whether maybe the museum had just chosen to force the slats to be open on its display model so visitors would see/notice them better.

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Honestly: Do away with the noise filter, Sure it might straighten out the input but at the same time it adds a latency to your input which can result in additional oscialltion when you try to correct your first inputs. The key is to be gentle.

 

PS: Rests in peace Anastasovich.

 

How much Noise Filter maximum would you recommend?

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How much Noise Filter maximum would you recommend?

 

I used 0.05 however I removed this completely in the end. It also seems that noisefilter delays all kinds of inputs, I don't know for sure any more what though.

The thing with a noisefilter is that it calculates the average of signals that pass through it and then passes them on. So the least you will have is a 1 step delay, I think that even 0.05 (whatever that means) will use more than 2 samples of the signal.

 

Take this as an example of how such a filter basically works: This filter builds an average through 4 single signal inputs (samples) and this will give the resulting output a delay of 4 samples until the true value is reached.

 

digital-filters-part-1-10-728.jpg?cb=130

 

In the end, what you need (depending on how much noise your hardware will produce) is up to you. My Warthog does not really need a filter, my old X-52 did (put 0.1 there I think).

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I touched gustav in Sinsheim and FW in Hannover museums. Later I got two fine tickets worth 30 euros for speeding and wrong parking from certain municipalities. I paid my dues :D

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