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Developer Diary, Part 152 - Discussion


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Making 4K textures add time to our artists and our schedule is built with 2K textures in mind. Someday I'll have them upgraded, but not now. When we go to the Pacific we'll add more time to work with 4k textures in the schedule.

 

Jason

Just wishful thinking out loud. Hope that d server gets some multithread love in the distant future. Its like a hungry hippo waiting for watermelons nudging you on your elbow.
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Bravo on the VR work...once you go VR there's no going back and I've been patiently waiting to be able to get back into my favorite sim. The feedback from your beta tester sounds amazing...can't wait!

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A question to the devs: the Merlin engine of the Spitfire would be modeled as if it are fitted with the R.A.E. restrictor? I suppose it should be because it was at the beginning of 1943 when the Spitfires began to be supplied to Russia by the British. By that date the modification to the Merlin's carburetor was fully operational. The question arises because in old Il2 1946 the engines of the Spitfires Vb fail when a negative G maneuver is attempted.

 

Regards,

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Dear devs, since bombers don't benefit that much from VR, I think releasing the VR "early" for fighters is a good idea. As for bombersight and gunners, here's my 2 cents:

 

Bombsight: War Thunder does it just fine, by cloning the image for both eyes. This creates a flat image corresponding to looking into the bombsight with one eye. You can then overlay any clickable interface you want (the current bombsight interface). Job done. Later, if you want to get fancy, you could make a different system. Also, joining a plane into "bomberman" position at any time in the flight, as you currently join gunner position would be a good idea. 

 

Gunners: DCS Huey has an interesting aiming system for the side gunners and the copilot. Why not just use that? You could force the rotation axis to move the gun, while the translation axis will allow the player to realign his head to the iron sights. If all else fails, mouse control for the turret would suit just fine, as long as the player's virtual body would remain aligned with the gun while it moves. 

 

I wonder why the beta tester considered that the VR FoV was better in BoX than in other flight sims ? Surely it's no different to any other simulation in which the player is sitting down with exactly the same human restrictions and limitations. I suspect a high frame rate is crucial in maintaining a heightened sense of immersion, so very well done team, excellent work.

 

I can answer that. I think they meant "world-scale", instead of FoV (which should be 1-1 to the headset, to prevent dizziness). In War Thunder, the world scale is way off, making everything appear small. It's hard to estimate, but I'm guessing the objects feel about 70-80% of the real size. The movement is scaled too (you are also scaled down), so you don't notice anything wrong when moving. Your brain adjusts to the smaller 3d world rapidly, but if you've just put the headset on, then all the buttons and knobs around you will appear really tiny and fragile. Also, you tend to slam into the ground on landing (if looking at the cockpit), or flare too soon (if looking at the ground), as the ground is never where you think it is. DCS also has good 3d, although... maybe seems a liiiiitle bit too big, 105%. I guess.

 

Back in summer, IL-2 had a prototype for VR and while the head movement was horrible, the 3D scale was already spot on. Can't describe it. One more game which nails the 3D is Vivecraft (or just Minecraft for the Oculus). But although in that game you can scale the world up and down, it doesn't scale YOU up and down. So instead of controlling the 3D effect only, you either turn into a giant, or into an ant. 

 

I will buy a VR set after I do the required upgrde & long overdue upgrade on my PC, but I may wait for the second generation.I do have a question ( that has been asked before , but not really answered that I know of.. :) how do VR users deal with keystroke commands? We have quite a few to deal with in flight sims ( esp. with muti-engined aircraft.) Are any current goggles equipped with some sort of slot so one glance at one's keyboard ? How about the hand controllers would they apply to say lower flaps or drop a bomb?Could they be of any use in a fully operating cockpit ?Could one use them to start the aircaft or control throttles or mixer etc...? Questions like this are why I might hold back for a bit.Its an expensive addition-I'd like to get it right.

 

Second generation might be a long time away. To access the keyboard, unfortunately nobody at SteamVR thought about implementing a "press a key once to show what it is, press it again fast to actually type it" solution for the keyboard. A keyboard with proximity sensor on each key or touch sensor would also do the trick (no such devices yet). So you type in blind. You can raise the HMD a bit on your face and look into the nosegap to spot your first key, then go from there. It's best to use a HOTAS anyway to map out everything you need. Writing in the chat is the only problem, so I suggest you map out macros for quick radio commands, similar to what War Thunder has by default. For weird plane controls, some keys are easy to find, such as the space bar, the arrow keys, some F buttons, Esc, etc.

 

Using the hand controllers to push those small buttons is a silly idea. I'm not mean to you, you'd only realize it if you had them. Seriously, those things are bulky. Great for holding swords and guns, great for pointing at things, but you're supposed to always hold them and never let them out of your hand. Maybe in the future(decades?) we will get some haptic gloves that you can still wear while holding the stick. 

 

If you want to choose one HMD now, probably the Oculus is more on your alley, if you can live without room experience for the next few years. 

Edited by karamazovnew
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Stupid devs!! Now I have to go buy a VR capable machine + the VR itself. This sim literally will end up costing me thousands over the years

 

Lol look at the bright side, if you decide to go with Rift it just recently dropped in price by 100.00 USD.

So you would then have an extra 100 bucks you had not planned on !

:) 

 

Man, I shudder to think how much overall I have spent for this - ahem hobby of mine, over the past 25 years or so...

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Using the hand controllers to push those small buttons is a silly idea. I'm not mean to you, you'd only realize it if you had them. Seriously, those things are bulky. Great for holding swords and guns, great for pointing at things, but you're supposed to always hold them and never let them out of your hand. Maybe in the future(decades?) we will get some haptic gloves that you can still wear while holding the stick. 


Have you tried ultrawings for OR? It's really interesting / amazing for what it is...you hold the stick / control the throttle / interact with everything using the touch controllers. I never in a million years would expect that to work out as perfectly as it does but it does. The motion feedback on the touch controllers makes the feel really good....WAY better that I would have expected. Could totally see this being an option for the future, especially with what is happening with leap motion: 
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Making 4K textures add time to our artists and our schedule is built with 2K textures in mind. Someday I'll have them upgraded, but not now. When we go to the Pacific we'll add more time to work with 4k textures in the schedule.

 

Jason

 

I guess drawing in that bit extra detail (Letters/Numbers & Symbols) ect does at that little bit extra time but I am sure it would be something the community wouldn't mind the artists spending that bit extra time on getting it look better but fair enough thanks for the reply.  :salute:

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Have you tried ultrawings for OR? It's really interesting / amazing for what it is...you hold the stick / control the throttle / interact with everything using the touch controllers. I never in a million years would expect that to work out as perfectly as it does but it does. The motion feedback on the touch controllers makes the feel really good....WAY better that I would have expected. Could totally see this being an option for the future, especially with what is happening with leap motion: 

 

I agree, that Leap Motion thing does look amazing. But I had the Vive controllers in mind when I wrote that. And fast dogfighting. Anyway, all of this discussion here made me realize just how much I have ignored voice capture until now. 

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Lol look at the bright side, if you decide to go with Rift it just recently dropped in price by 100.00 USD.

So you would then have an extra 100 bucks you had not planned on !

:)

 

Man, I shudder to think how much overall I have spent for this - ahem hobby of mine, over the past 25 years or so...

Shh, Don! Dang don't let the wife hear that! I just say it was on sale! :P

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This might interest people, a Vive compatible headset with higher resolution and a lot cheaper, but no room tracking:

 

https://youtu.be/Wvl_15UNFYU


Very interesting. I understand that no "room tracking" means no leaning forward/back/left/right. Is that right? Otherwise it looks pretty darn good. It's nice to see new players challenging the big names of Rift and Vive.

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Very interesting. I understand that no "room tracking" means no leaning forward/back/left/right. Is that right? Otherwise it looks pretty darn good. It's nice to see new players challenging the big names of Rift and Vive.

Yeah, just rotational tracking - see this video of a keen VR fan using it in Elite Dangerous, he's clearly already a VR user he has some interesting and favourable  comments:

https://youtu.be/0leNzzUlAI4

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Making 4K textures add time to our artists and our schedule is built with 2K textures in mind. Someday I'll have them upgraded, but not now. When we go to the Pacific we'll add more time to work with 4k textures in the schedule.

 

Jason

would you consider adding user created 4k textures as standard skins if the community was willing to do it?

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so whats ETA for VR now and can we get Beta to test ?

Testing it, and end of the month was what I think was posted.

Never quote an exact price and never quote a discount less than 30%!

 

"It was pretty cheap... 30% off!"

 

:lol:

Ah someone who's been there and done that too!  :)

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Very interesting. I understand that no "room tracking" means no leaning forward/back/left/right. Is that right? Otherwise it looks pretty darn good. It's nice to see new players challenging the big names of Rift and Vive.

 

No room tracking is pretty much what it says - stand up, move around, turn around  throughout the room ( play area) you have set up, and the VR device tracks it all. Normally referred to in the VR community as " Room Scale ".

 

Not sure about the Vive, with the Rift you set up your play area boundaries in the software ( called the Guardian), then while playing with headset on ( obviously can not see your physical room), a green wire mesh shows up on the screen when you get close to a Guardian wall boundary.

 

Can't see room scale being a thing for flying planes , I use it for some FPS games.

 

Didn't I read this new 4K device was just 2DOF rather than 6 or something like that?

I can not imagine computer hardware existing today that could display full 6DOF in VR at 4K.

Edited by dburne
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Very cool. I wonder if room tracking/6DOF is coming in a future model.

One of the YouTube vids was at some big show where it was launched (CES? 2016) talking to the Chinese devs, when asked what the Rift had over them they said positional tracking - then said their next version would have that as well.

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Cheers for the dev update! Although I'm not into VR myself I'm really glad to see that it's exciting other members of the community and those comments by the beta tester sure do paint a pretty picture of the quality of your guy's work.

Re the Spit, I may be knit-picking and it's tricky to see in the 3rd screen shot however it looks like the black line used to delineate the walk ways on the starboard wing appear to be symmetric with that on the port wing, however on type 'a', 'b' and early-ish 'c' wings the line that runs along the main spar should extend all the way to the wing root, like so:

Spitfire_Mk_XII.jpg

 

The question arises because in old Il2 1946 the engines of the Spitfires Vb fail when a negative G maneuver is attempted.

 

It has been awhile since I've flown the V in good ol' 1946 however I believe it did work but only if you were using full power i.e. 100% throttle + wep, which I believe was historically accurate for those earlier versions of the flow restrictor.

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One of the YouTube vids was at some big show where it was launched (CES? 2016) talking to the Chinese devs, when asked what the Rift had over them they said positional tracking - then said their next version would have that as well.

 

If that means 6DOF then hell yeah I'd be in. On my watch list. :-)

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